Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
BoSPaladin
The Paladin
Question. Where is the partially completed Inhibitor located?
I'm using the array in the update itself which says korea. But several votes say it's based in north america.
Which is it?
I'm using the array in the update itself which says korea. But several votes say it's based in north america.
Which is it?
- Location
- Wall Gazing
STU Projections
This is an update to my previous STU Projections for the end of the Plan. IE how many STUs will we have by the end of the Plan and how many of the current STU requiring projects could we afford.
Current Processing Capacity is: Tiberium Processing Capacity (2690/3800) (900 IHG)
We are required to complete the IHG refits and increase income by 585 RpT. Of that 585 increase we have 11 turns until the end of the Plan with 15 RpT per turn from economic growth, assuming that stays constant. This means we must increase income by 585 - 11 * 15 = 420 RpT. Of that 420 RpT we are unlikely to see any Lunar/Space mining income due to the Space Population requirements of the plan taking up all of the Orbital dice. Therefore all 420 RpT must come from Tiberium.
Therefore we should have 2690 + 420 = 3110 RpT coming from Tiberium.
With 90 RpT/STU That means we will be producing a total of 3110 / 90 = 35.56 STUs
We are currently producing 27 of those and therefore will get an additional 8 STUs over the course of the Plan minimum. We are currently consuming 19 of those, and will consume an additional 2 from the Gravitic Shipyard. This leaves us at a net of 14 STUs available to spend on currently available projects.
The currently available non Plan Goal STU consuming projects are:
U-Series Alloy Foundries: 6 STUs for Phase 4-6
Microfusion Cell Laboratories: 2 STUs
Second Generation Repulsor Plate Factories: 4 STUs
Zrbite Sonic Weapons Deployment: 2 STUs for Phase 2
Infernium Laser Refits: 1 STUs
For a total of 15 STUs
This means that if we only accomplish the minimum RpT extraction required for the Plan Goals, we cannot afford all of the currently available STU Projects. Though If we can produce an additional 40 RpT we can.
For the Alloy Foundries argument, I am a very firm advocate for them as the allow us to expand everything else, including additional Tiberium extraction for more STU generation.
For Phase 6 of the Alloy Foundries, which directly increases income, in order for it to pay back the STUs invested in it, it would need to increase our income by 180 RpT.
This means it would need to increase income by 180 / 3110 = 5.79% at the end of the plan, or 180 / 2690 = 6.69% currently.
This is an update to my previous STU Projections for the end of the Plan. IE how many STUs will we have by the end of the Plan and how many of the current STU requiring projects could we afford.
Current STU production is listed above from the STU Production and Consumption section of the Turn Post.
Current Processing Capacity is: Tiberium Processing Capacity (2690/3800) (900 IHG)
We are required to complete the IHG refits and increase income by 585 RpT. Of that 585 increase we have 11 turns until the end of the Plan with 15 RpT per turn from economic growth, assuming that stays constant. This means we must increase income by 585 - 11 * 15 = 420 RpT. Of that 420 RpT we are unlikely to see any Lunar/Space mining income due to the Space Population requirements of the plan taking up all of the Orbital dice. Therefore all 420 RpT must come from Tiberium.
Therefore we should have 2690 + 420 = 3110 RpT coming from Tiberium.
With 90 RpT/STU That means we will be producing a total of 3110 / 90 = 35.56 STUs
We are currently producing 27 of those and therefore will get an additional 8 STUs over the course of the Plan minimum. We are currently consuming 19 of those, and will consume an additional 2 from the Gravitic Shipyard. This leaves us at a net of 14 STUs available to spend on currently available projects.
The currently available non Plan Goal STU consuming projects are:
U-Series Alloy Foundries: 6 STUs for Phase 4-6
Microfusion Cell Laboratories: 2 STUs
Second Generation Repulsor Plate Factories: 4 STUs
Zrbite Sonic Weapons Deployment: 2 STUs for Phase 2
Infernium Laser Refits: 1 STUs
For a total of 15 STUs
This means that if we only accomplish the minimum RpT extraction required for the Plan Goals, we cannot afford all of the currently available STU Projects. Though If we can produce an additional 40 RpT we can.
For the Alloy Foundries argument, I am a very firm advocate for them as the allow us to expand everything else, including additional Tiberium extraction for more STU generation.
For Phase 6 of the Alloy Foundries, which directly increases income, in order for it to pay back the STUs invested in it, it would need to increase our income by 180 RpT.
This means it would need to increase income by 180 / 3110 = 5.79% at the end of the plan, or 180 / 2690 = 6.69% currently.
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it's BZ-2, as per the last update.
Ithillid has confirmed it is BZ-7 Korea.
If you look here, you will see that the previous plan had it for BZ-7, but the mathpost had it for BZ-2, and the resultspost oopsed and copied that.
- Location
- Wall Gazing
Whoops. Yeah, thats my bad
. Yeah the Voting post clearly says BZ-7 and I must not have caught that change when prepping the math post.- Location
- Zvornik
[X] Plan Attempting Strategic Defense and Inhibition
I don't want to do it before phase 1, or ideally phase 3, of SADN is completed. We have far more to lose than we have to gain from an early invasion. Right now, neither Chicago nor Mecca are protected against nuclear/catalyst missile attack. Ignoring the human, diplomatic, religious, industrial, and cultural cost, losing either of them would represent a massive loss of tiberium refining capacity (and thus income). Krukov, who controls Canada, can threaten Chicago with his Varyags, and has just mobilized in response to knowledge of the agreement becoming semi-public. And the Shah of Atom, whose territory we're invading, can threaten Mecca with his nuclear triad and has nuked us before.
So, Q3 2064 at the earliest (SADN 1 fully deployed), Q1 2065 at the latest, would be my preference. Worst case scenario from waiting is that we lose some PS by not fully completing the goal by the end of the plan, which isn't all that frightening compared to losing Mecca, Chicago, or both.
So, Q3 2064 at the earliest (SADN 1 fully deployed), Q1 2065 at the latest, would be my preference. Worst case scenario from waiting is that we lose some PS by not fully completing the goal by the end of the plan, which isn't all that frightening compared to losing Mecca, Chicago, or both.
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AzrielIlluminare
Mothman Cultist
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Yeah setting up defenses so we don't end up wasting resources building something only for it to get nuked or bombed into oblivion is a very good idea.
- Location
- Wall Gazing
The current consensus appears to be waiting until the first phase of SADN is fully online. We have finished funding it and it should be fully online on Q3 2064 (5 turns from now). This will still give us 6 turns to actually finish it and with a full scale investment in it we should be able to finish it in 2-3 turns.
In regards to tib:
-What is the relationship between Red Zone Harvesting, Red Zone Containment Lines, and Glaciers again?
-Assuming that each phase of Secure Yellow Zones unlocks 1 phase of Red Zone Border Offensives + 1 phase of Deep Glacier Mines (after completing the former), does that change any of our calculations on what we should do for income or abatement?
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Regular RZ Harvesting Operations picks a spot in the RZ (current target is Congo River area) and start harvesting/clearing tiberium from the area as they cut a path to a (regular) glacier face. So completion of a phase of RZ Harvesting unlocks a phase of RZ Glaciers. RZBO phases unlock Deep Red glacier (super glaciers) phases.
AFAIK, RZ Containment Lines has no effect on either project. Previous rounds of RZ Harvesting includes both sides of the Sinai (east side went up into Israel/Jordan), the Amazon, Genoa and Anzio in Italy, and IIRC Nile River and Eritrea areas off that YZ section across from Jeddah.
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It's difficult to say what might happen if we GZ the Yellow around our MARV hubs/etc, though I would not necessarily expect more phases of RZBO depending on location. I say this because I would think there'd need to be sufficient logistical support to handle offensives into the Deep Red, and MARV hub areas and the like probably don't have the logi footprint needed. Perhaps new RZ Harvesting or glacier unlocks that might unlock further actions?
- Location
- Wall Gazing
1 Phase of RZ Harvesting unlocks 1 Phase of Glaciers, we currently need a phase of RZ Harvesting to unlock the next Glacier.
Containment Lines, from my understanding is like Coordinated Abatement, except better number wise (both in terms of Abatement and Income) but not as secure supply lines as Coordinated Abatement is purported to be. Though given those supplies are only secure because of NOD, how secure are they?
The Secure Yellow Zones might unlock Red Zone Border Offensives and phase of Deep Glacier Mines, and it probably unlocks a phase of Green Zone Intensification as well, given it is making Green Zones. Let me get back to you on the math for Income, cause it might be cheaper then mass Vein Mines, might not be, it is probably not cheaper then the RZ SMARV + Inhibitor option for RZ abatement, but I'll check that too.
@Shadows, your plan 'Karachi Shield' should cost 1255 R not 1250 R, infrastructure should be 95 not 90. 'Karachi Shield Alloys' has the same thing and should cost 1270 R not 1265 R.
[X] Plan Karachi Shield Alloys
Shadows
Sacred Priestess of the Benevolent Dice Gods
- Location
- USS Civilian, DDG-214
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Fixed. Thank you!
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
That would mean rushing it in the last possible second (year). And if there is anything that will make Nod trigger happy, it would be a whole new GDI city being built overnight.
A slow build-up would look less threatening, and give them time to consider whether the threat really is bad enough to go nuclear over.
It's going to go nuclear no matter what. We're invading the Shah's (the warlord who specializes in nuclear strikes, and has the full nuclear triad, aka nuclear bombers, nuclear missiles, and nuclear submarines) most populated, most productive heartlands. He is going to use his nuclear weapons. The only question on that front is how many of them get through.
The other player, the Bannerjees, have already agreed to let us to do this action. So long as we've fulfilled our end of the deal on the co-ordinated tib abatement, I doubt they're going to care over much on whether we do this fast or slow.
But if we don't want to go fast, that's fine with me. I'd rather start late and go slow and fail our goal, than start early and have Mecca wiped off the map. In the former, we eat some crow and pay some PS. In the other, we pay orders of magnitude more. That said, I think we can start late and go fast, and thus not have to pay the PS or see Mecca destroyed.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
No, I totally understand.
I've been coming around to that view myself, you see; that's why I said I was likely to do it. Just now getting caught up with thread discussion and trying to read the room.
I might do something like that, yes.
Well, in-character, Starbound isn't actually wrong that this is basically the only known and definite path that leads to a future for the human species. In-setting, GDI knows of no way to actually contain tiberium reliably and indefinitely, does not know that Kane knows how to do this himself, and has no reason to expect Kane to help.
So there is a legitimate philosophical question here: is an unknown, possibly quite large, increase in the total number of future humans who can be evacuated to space before Earth is destroyed worth the present-day sacrifice of some number of lives? There are perspectives under which the answer is "no, never, never compromise, not even in the face of Tiberium Armageddon." There are perspectives under which the answer is "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." It's a question with real nuance to it, and even if I'm not saying "we should totally do as Starbound asks, absolutely," I do think their position in this matter is at least serious and worthy of being treated with respect.
At least in their own minds, this isn't them saying "jump off the cliff." This is them saying "hurry up and get really working on getting more people to shelter before the rising flood waters kill us all!" Or at least that's what they believe they're saying.
Are they right? That's a complicated question and I think one that we as a collective voterbase will have to be open to disagreement about, rather than trying to shame each other into all falling into line on one side or the other of the issue.
Hm. Well, the AA die's going away, rendering this speculation moot.
But...
Well, I wanted to be absolutely sure of finishing the Santiago Zone Armor factory, and I think when I did that particular draft I wasn't sure if the Steel Talons would accept an AA die as us keeping our promises. So I felt that I had to put 'proper' Military dice on both of those projects anyway.
Also, Zone Armor factories have started having rollover, now that I think about it, so really it would have just come down to "can you get away with an AA die for the Talons?"
I'm coming around to it, as noted.
That is a part of it, but I'm coming to feel that I can live without the extra (mean expected value) 50 Progress on that project in exchange for revving up the economy and getting InOps its vitamins.
Also, 2064Q3 is supposed to be pretty bad weather time in Pakistan, so it may not be a good time compared to 2064Q4 anyway...?
Maybe. Then again, the need to create that logistical support to permit offensives into the Deep Red may be part of why we'd be paying 340 Progress per 0.1 units of Green Zone thus created.
And if nothing else, it'd surely be a prerequisite for whatever project does unlock more border offensives, and if that project isn't Tiberium-related it'll probably be under Infrastructure, which is a category we can do pretty much whatever we like with.
To be fair, I'm pretty sure al-Isfahani wouldn't actually nuke Mecca on purpose.
But he might very well toss nuclear missiles at the Blue Zones within his reasonably easy reach (BZ-18 and BZ-4), killing millions of people in each, and is very likely to destroy the refinery and other industrial complexes at Medina and Jeddah near Mecca, if given a chance.
SADN Phase 1 secures a perimeter around Mecca and, given that these are strategic defense systems, that will probably cover the whole three-city zone. BZ-4 and BZ-18, which are less critical targets in and of themselves, would probably not see any coverage until SADN Phase 3 or possibly even Phase 4.
Same here. It might mean an extra mil die in SADN next turn, but it might be worthwhile for those boosts.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
That is not accurate.
Some of the territory is Al-Isfahani's, some of it is Bannerjees. Therefore, we are building the rail link on the border, not through anyone's 'most productive heartlands'.
The city itself sounds like it is in the Bannerjees territory.
Why would we be negotiating with the Bannerjees for permission to put a city in Al-Isfahani's territory???
F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
I'm positive that question has been asked before and that the answer was no but I could be wrong.
Sykes-Picot agreement.
We wanted the Karachi corridor. The Bannerjees agreed so long as we altered the route to take more of the Shah of Atom's territory than we originally intended to. Since the Bannerjees are much more conventionally powerful than the Shah, and the alternative was possibly fighting both of them simultaneously, we were more than happy to take that deal. They were able to get paid for selling their rival's land, and they get to watch the fireworks as we fight each other, so they're reasonably happy as well.
As to al-Isfahani's territory, our initial intel briefing said:
Which turned out to be only a partial briefing (like how InOps didn't tells us that Nod had "BZs" in India). Per your own quote, most of the planned route through Pakistan is al-Isfahani's territory, not the Bannerjees'.
If you look at a map, you'll notice that almost the entirety of Afghanistan and Iran are red zones, with only the bits close to Pakistan and Pakistan itself having any yellow at all.
The Karachi corridor is going to claim almost the entirety of his industry and population. And we'll be extremely well positioned to take the rest at our leisure. For him, this is an existential issue. He's nuked us for far less. He will nuke us. It's going to happen either during the Karachi invasion itself, or he'll launch a pre-emptive strike.
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- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
I have seen no evidence for this.
If I look at the map, the fertile eastern side of Turkmenistan is a suspicious yellow zone that I don't think GDI has had anything to do with.
The border region between Iran and Pakistan is 1000 km from the Indus River. Why would Al-Isfahani's main centre of industry and population be on the border of his territory?
Why would we have agreed to this route if this was the case?
In Indus River is claimed by the Bannerjees, hence them saying we go around them. Al-Isfahani would has nothing to gain by having significant population centres over on the plateau above it. He has Turkmenistan.