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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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You know, I'm honestly a bit surprised there's no "sell Food to Nod" option. Could it be because that's getting folded into humanitarian aid and we can't make a profit off it?

bigking321 said:
Since we completed Chicago shouldn't we be able to see other planned city options now? We only have one of our two planned city slots filled.
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Maybe it'll take a turn or two for the political factors to shake out and the next set of proposals to cross our desk.

Of course the really big problem there is that we need to start North Boston after alloys as well.
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Yeah. We're not exactly drowning in wiggle room when it comes to Heavy Industry dice.

Per Doruma, we do have SOME room, but if we weren't spending Free dice on the field, realistically it'd be a case of "Aberdeen or repulsorplates, pick one to get done during the current Plan."

At this point I am kinda against making more promises in general. It feels like we are stretched really thin already, especially when it comes to Orbital and our huge population promise to them we've already made. Do we really need to go even further? I'd like SOME wiggle room for our reduced free dice.
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It should be noted that the Starbound promise is, essentially, "hurry up and do a bunch of work on the population promise." Every single one of those projects apart from Suborbital Shuttles* specifically touches on the population target, and would probably have had to be completed to hit the target. And completing them all the way I have in mind would get us about 4700 people closer to that target over the next three turns.

So it's likely that we'd just, in effect, be frontloading about 4-5 turns' worth of work into three turns. This might well correspond to us having 'recovering' the spent Free dice in 2065, unless we feel like spending them on still other space projects that would otherwise never have gotten done at all.
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*(And since Suborbital Shuttles is a project we wanted to do anyway, and one that uses our freely available Infrastructure dice, that one's not a problem)


@doruma1920 , one thing that concerns me, but would be difficult to factor into your analyses, is that we'll clearly be spending plenty of dice on projects not listed in the analysis (because they aren't mandatory and may not even exist yet)... but which will in some cases cost Energy.

It seems fairly likely to me that we'll be using up at least, oh, at a casual estimate an average of 3-4 Energy per turn on optional projects over the course of the next 11 turns, which would likely require at least two more phases of second generation fusion power to meet demand, or some combination of other optional projects that provide +Energy (Bergen, tarberries, et cetera).

What do you say?
 
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BoSPaladin said:
We might need to increase the amount of food produced first.

It's also possible that some of the consumer goods being sold to nod is food based.
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The second seems very likely.

The first would surprise me, because we're no better off in terms of Capital Goods than we are in terms of Food, and yet we have a "sell Capital Goods to Nod" option. Though I'm really reluctant to take it for obvious reasons.
 
I'm not really sure about any of the trade with nod options. Seems a bit likely to rile people on our side up, especially since we just did that major negotiation with them. I'm not opposed either. Just unsure if it's worth it.

The STU one though. Does it give us a extra stu production each turn (+1 to stu stockpile a turn) or just one stu production one time?

The former seems like something we should take immediately and the latter seems like something we should take only if we absolutely need the one stu for a sudden vital project and not under any other circumstance.
 
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bigking321 said:
I'm not really sure about any of the trade with nod options. Seems a bit likely to rile people on our side up, especially since we just did that major negotiation with them. I'm not opposed either. Just unsure if it's worth it.
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That's fair.

My main concern re-trade is the exchange rate.

Imo. Cap goods and energy are simply not worth that price.

Not unless a war breaks out and we're helping a friendly warlord like the caravanserai build avatars or tanks to crush mehretu with.

Even con goods isn't 'great' I mainly picked that because we've got hundreds of it in excess.

And even that, there's good arguments for not selling any as we still have goals to increase consumer goods.

My worry about an unhappy populace is less about trade with nod, and more people seeing reduced availability of luxuries.
 
Alright late to the party as usual. My Plan for this turn:

[X] Plan Logistical Orbit v2.3:
-[X] Infrastructure (5/5 Dice +27 bonus) 100 Resources:
--[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 7+8) 93/270/525 20 RpD, 5 Dice = 100 R 100%/33% ADC 6/57
-[X] Heavy Industry (5/5 Dice + 5 Free Dice +34 bonus) 340 Resources:
--[X] U-Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 4) 32/510 40 RpD, 7 Dice = 280 R 95% ADC 33
--[X] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 2) 75/310 20 RpD, 3 Dice = 60 R 74% ADC 40
-[X] Light and Chemical Industry (4/4 Dice +29 bonus) 800 Resources:
--[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 553/1155 20 RpD, 4 Dice = 80 R 4/8 Median ADC N/A
-[X] Agriculture (6/6 Dice +29 bonus) 75 Resources:
--[X] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 5) 78/225 15 RpD, 2 Die = 30 R 74% ADC 37
--[X] Tarberry Deployment 0/70/140 10 RpD, 1 Die = 10 R 80%/10% DC 21/91
--[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 5) 78/180/350 10 RpD, 2 Die = 20 R 96%/2/3 Median ADC 15/100
--[X] Laboratory Meat Development 0/100 15 RpD, 1 Die = 15 R 50% DC 51
-[X] Tiberium (7/7 Dice +39 bonus) 180 Resources:
--[X] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 4) 93/225/440 25 RpD, 3 Dice = 75 R 100%/11% ADC 1/72
--[X] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (BZ-7 Korea) 49/90 30 RpD, 1 Die = 30 R 100% DC 1
--[X] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 1) (New) 0/200 25 RpD, 3 Dice = 75 R 95% ADC 23
-[X] Orbital (7/7 Dice + Erewhon +34 bonus) 170 Resources:
--[X] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) (Updated) 324/1045 20 RpD, 3 Dice = 60 R 3/9 Median ADC N/A
--[X] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 229/530 20 RpD, 3 Dice = 60 R 45% ADC 63
--[X] Gravitic Shipyard 392/425 30 RpD, 1 Die = 30 R 68% DC 33
--[X] Fusion Shipyard 446/475 20 RpD, 1 Erewhon Die = 20 R 72% DC 29
-[X] Services (4/4 Dice +35 bonus) 90 Resources:
--[X] Autodoc Systems Development 53/120 30 RpD, 1 Die = 30 R 89% DC 12
--[X] Human Augmentation Programs (Tech) (New) 0/120 30 RpD, 1 Die = 30 R 36% DC 65
--[X] University Program Updates (New) 0/255 15 RpD, 2 Die = 30 R 5% ADC 85
-[X] Military (7/7 Dice +1 Free Die+ 2 AA Die +31 bonus) 185 Resources:
--[X] Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 2) 149/285/605 20 RpD, 6 Dice = 120 R 100%/60% ADC 1/43
--[X] Infantry Recon Support Drone Deployment 0/170 10 RpD, 2 Die = 20 R 58% ADC 47
--[X] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 6) (Very High Priority) 127/160 20 RpD, 1 AA Die = 20 R 83% DC 18
--[X] Combat Laser Development (Tech) 43/80 25 RpD, 1 AA Die = 25 R 79% DC 22
-[X] Bureaucracy (4/4 Dice +29 bonus):
--[X] Administrative Assistance Ground Forces Zone Armor 2 Die
--[X] Administrative Assistance Combat Laser Development 2 Die
-[X] Total Cost: 100+340+80+75+180+170+90+185 = 1220/1300

- Infrastructure has 5 Dice on Yellow Zone Fortress Towns for a 100% chance and an Average DC of 6 to complete Phase 7 and a 33% chance and an Average DC of 57 to complete the Yellow Zone Fortress Town Action Chain. Why? Because:
Ithillid said:
Of the warlords capable of mounting a response, Krukov has been the most openly dramatic. Calling his banners, he has demanded that they reaffirm their loyalty oaths, and make ready for a continuation of their conflict with the Initiative. Additionally, he has begun proliferating the advanced technologies that he can manage to deploy, sending them down to even relatively minor warlords, although so far, they seem to have been severely bottlenecked by their lack of industrial capacity.
According to conventional analysis of the Brotherhood of Nod, this would be considered a bad idea. One of the major tools that the largest of the warlords have is their access to the greatest spread of technologies, the ability to maintain large forces with high tech equipment and the specialist troops needed to maintain and operate it. That Krukov is beginning to proliferate that down to even minor warlords is either an indication of great strength, or great weakness. Either he has managed to install a near entirely loyal contingent of subordinates, or he has such a tenuous hold on power that he believes he has little choice but to arm the people who may someday attempt to overthrow him in their own self interest.
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Krukov is about to make a mess and I don't want it spilling into our territory.

- Heavy Industry has 7 Dice on Alloys for a 95% chance and an Average DC of 33 to get another round done and 3 Dice on the new Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants for a 74%% and an Average DC of 33 to get +19 Energy and start building up a buffer for retrofits.

- In L&C Industry I have 4 Dice on Reykjavik to push towards a capstone next turn.

- Agriculture has 2 Die on Vertical Farming Projects because:

Ithillid said:
[ ] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 5)
A fifth and likely for the moment final wave of vertical farms will expand the system to the tertiary cities, smaller facilities often far from the Initiative's core territorial holdings, many of which are in reclaimed yellow zones. While far from being food deserts as defined in the late 20th century, many of these regions struggle with access to fresh and high quality foods, especially when attempting to plan for supply disruptions.
(Progress 78/225: 15 resources per die) (+4 Food, +4 Consumer Goods, -2 Energy)
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it's the last Stage for now and the one done entirely in reclaimed Yellow Zones. That is good for morale and as a statement that we are not abandoning the ex-Yellow Zones. Also has 1 Die on Tarberry Deployment because it might not need another one, 2 Die on Food Stockpiles for another statement on intent and security and 1 Die on Lab Meat because unless it rolls low two are overkill.

- Tiberium is about Red Zone Mitigation with 3 Dice each on Red Zone Border Offensives and Coordinated Abatement Programs because that gets us a phase of each and then a Die on that Tiberium Inhibitor in Korea to finish it off.

- Orbital is about finishing off the various Bays and rolling Columbia and Shalla so that they are done before the elections with Dice surges.

- Services goes for Autodoc Development, Human Augmentation Programs and University Updates being done next turn probably.

- Military is about doing two Phases of SADN so we can be closer to covering our infrastructure before building Karachi in the nuke happy warlord's territory, finishing Infantry Recon Support Drones and Zone Armor as we will need them now and finishing off Lasers because we started them last turn.

-Bureaucracy is doing an AA on Ground Forces Zone Armor and an AA on Combat Laser Development because the chances of other projects fall if we use AA on them. This plan runs on the slimmest of probability margins now because there has not been enough of a decrease from U-Series Alloys this turn.
 
The Consumer Goods targets are effectively 'in the bag,' in that just doing our thing normally is absolutely sure to hit those targets. It's not 2054 all over again.

I think selling some Consumer Goods to Nod would be well worth it, not so much for the money as for giving the populace of multiple Nod warlord states a taste of GDI's lifestyle and something that might soften the general cultural hatred. Given that we're at +211 Consumer Goods, with a passive gain of +8 per turn per turn alone, we can easily spare -5 Consumer Goods for a trade deal without anyone even noticing, and even something like -20 Consumer Goods would be only slightly impactful.
 
Simon_Jester said:
The Consumer Goods targets are effectively 'in the bag,' in that just doing our thing normally is absolutely sure to hit those targets. It's not 2054 all over again.

I think selling some Consumer Goods to Nod would be well worth it, not so much for the money as for giving the populace of multiple Nod warlord states a taste of GDI's lifestyle and something that might soften the general cultural hatred. Given that we're at +211 Consumer Goods, with a passive gain of +8 per turn per turn alone, we can easily spare -5 Consumer Goods for a trade deal without anyone even noticing, and even something like -20 Consumer Goods would be only slightly impactful.
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-5 consumer goods isn't an option. It goes in intervals of 10

But yeah. I do think selling 20 or even more is eminently doable. But I want to test the waters slowly.
 
Terran Allias said:
So which plan attempts to finish the space stations
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That's actually impossible this turn.

But almost all of them put significant effort towards orbital goals.

Attempting to storm the heavens puts the most free dice plus erewhon and an AA dice into orbital. But its focus on raw numbers in housing bays may have downsides.

Attempting to vibe with the brotherhood has the same amount of free dice in orbital but no erewhon or AA dice. But IMO the spaceport bay should prove to be helpful in organising shuttles for future expansion.
 
Ithillid said:
[ ] Transfer Funding to InOps
While Inops is currently happy with their degree of funding, there are projects and security measures that will take more than they can currently justify spending. While sending them money early does mean that it won't be available to the Treasury, InOps can spend it in other ways.
(-60 Resources per Turn) (can be taken three more times)
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I think it's bizarre, after we lost a Free die and a L&CL die to assassinations, that no plans are taking this now. With more income from re-opened RZ mining this turn and a sizeable reserve, we can easily afford this. And what with all three of last turn's assassination targets being Treasury characters, I'd think the priority of buffing our one and only defense against Nod's super-powerful assassination abilities would be rather on the forefront of people's minds, rather than completely sidelined. (Though the project's description being kinda outdated doesn't help.)

We're riling up the nastier half of Nod with Karachi. Shoving funding towards InOps might be just as important as crash-building SADN.

P.S. @Simon, if you want to redline Orbital projects, please consider prioritizing building the Hospital Bay to at least cut down on the inevitable casualties. Plus we absolutely can push Orbital so hard we get mechanical penalties, which the Hospital Bay would likely mitigate.
 
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Don't have the energy to make a plan. None of them really do what I'm aiming for.

[X] Plan Karachi Shield Alloys

[X] Plan Modeling, Alloy and Space

[X]Plan Attempting to vibe with the Brotherhood

[X] Plan Logistical Orbit v2.3:
 
Simon_Jester said:
@doruma1920 , one thing that concerns me, but would be difficult to factor into your analyses, is that we'll clearly be spending plenty of dice on projects not listed in the analysis (because they aren't mandatory and may not even exist yet)... but which will in some cases cost Energy.

It seems fairly likely to me that we'll be using up at least, oh, at a casual estimate an average of 3-4 Energy per turn on optional projects over the course of the next 11 turns, which would likely require at least two more phases of second generation fusion power to meet demand, or some combination of other optional projects that provide +Energy (Bergen, tarberries, et cetera).

What do you say?
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Building 2 additional 2CCF plants would give us a 40 Energy Surplus in the analysis. This would cost an additional 7 HI dice, and leave us with 6 spare HI dice. This does assume we finish Bergen 4, as the analysis still accounts for that for increasing 2CCF throughput, I don't think it is an issue now, but it seems likely that if we tried to shock a bunch of 2CCF plants we'd loose whatever buffer we have allowing us to invest extra dice into 2CCF.

From a new Plan Goal perspective:
-Diplomatic Corps: Complete all phases of Coordinated Abatement by end of Plan: +5 Political Support
--This would cost ~7 dice. However given our current RZ Mitigation commitment, we won't need as much Containment Lines / RZ harvesting, on net this commitment will increase our tiberium required dice by ~3, bringing the Tiberium totals up to 63 required dice, and 14 spare.

-ZOCOM: Complete Zrbite weapons phase 1, Santiago Zone Armor Factory, and Infantry Recon Support Drone Deployment, before any major Red Zone Ops. +ZOCOM gratitude.
--Timeline wise given our current Border Offensive and SADN commitments this is not feasible. Dice wise its only 1 die for Santiago and 2 for the Recon Drones.

-Housing: Complete all three phases of Postwar Housing Refits and 1 phase of Rail Network Construction. +2 Political Support
--Housing Refits costs ~7 dice, Rail network costs ~3 dice. Increasing our Infrastructure requirement to 19 dice, with 36 spare dice.

-Tiberium Abatement: Complete 1 phase of Red Zone Refits and 6 Blue Zone Inhibitors
--RZ Refits ~3 dice, 3 additional BZ inhibitors ~3 dice (if this is 6 additional BZ inhibitors ~6 dice). This would increase Tiberium Required dice to 66 required dice and 11 spare

-Free Market Party: Complete market releases before elections.
--This doesn't affect dice requirements, however the resource requirements are significant in the capital goods department, while we have Capital goods to do it, we probably want to use them elsewhere.

-Developmentalist: Complete both Library Enhancement Programs and Durable Goods Library Improvements before the elections.
--Timeline wise each of these projects cost ~2 dice (total of ~4) and we have 12 Service dice between now and the elections.

-Militarist (Crusaders): Begin Karachi before the elections.
-Militarist (Wardens): Begin Karachi after SADN Phase 1 is fully deployed (Q3 2064).
--These are mutually exclusive, and don't have a dice requirement effect. Though I'll note for the Wardens we should still have sufficient dice for completing Karachi post Q3 2064

-Starbound: Complete Sub-Orbital Shuttles Phase 3, Shala, Columbia, and 2 more housing bays before the election.
--This requires ~4 Infrastructure dice for Shuttles, ~15 dice for Shala, ~8 dice for Columbia, and ~4 dice for each housing bay. Note that we also need to finish the Enterprise Bays before the election as well (~1 die each). That is a total of ~33 Orbital dice. We have 21 Orbital dice available between now and the elections. With 12 Free dice required, that is ~4 Free dice a turn for the next 3 turns. Might be a bit more depending.

-Socialist Party: Complete income goals by Q4 2064.
--This requires 12 dice on Vein Mines, 1 on RZ harvesting, 6 on Containment lines, 4 on Border Offensives, and 5 on Deep RZ Glacier Mines. or a total of ~28 dice. there are 49 Tiberium dice between now and Q4 2064.
 
BoSPaladin said:
What are you aiming for?
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2 dice on Agri Mech
4 dice on Shala
2 dice on Infantry Recon Support Drone Deployment
Finishing the ZA Factory
Funding for InOps

But with:
Nothing weird in Infra, HI or LCI. (I think only the Calorific Reclamator, or starting Aberdeen / Nuuk would qualify, but who knows.)
Only a tentative push into Red Zones, nothing big.
Decent but not over the top on other Stations. (That would be 5+ dice on one Station or starting new Bays.)
Not another AEVA
 
HousePet said:
2 dice on Agri Mech
4 dice on Shala
2 dice on Infantry Recon Support Drone Deployment
Finishing the ZA Factory
Funding for InOps
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I actually have all of these except the recon support drone. And SADN being what it is. I can't justify spending less dice on it. Have the zone armour as requested. Last mil dice is steel talons which needs minimum investment.


HousePet said:
But with:
Nothing weird in Infra, HI or LCI. (I think only the Calorific Reclamator, or starting Aberdeen / Nuuk would qualify, but who knows.)
Only a tentative push into Red Zones, nothing big.
Decent but not over the top on other Stations. (That would be 5+ dice on one Station or starting new Bays.)
Not another AEVA
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I unfortunately have Aberdeen starting
Red zone push is imo. Fairly moderate.

Stations. Unfortunately I am starting the bay but I think it's gonna be vital in the near future.

And currently No Evas.

I'll bear in mind your requests in future turns, but for now thank you for the approval vote.
 
Simon_Jester said:
@BOTcommander , while someone may make a more space-heavy plan than this, as it is not a true meme plan, it does represent a very good faith effort to embrace an extremely ambitious space project target tossed to us by Starbound.

-[] Orbital (7/7 Dice + 4 Free die + EREWHON!!!, +34 bonus, 250 R)
--[] Gravitic Shipyard 392/425 (1 die, 30 R) (100% chance)
--[] Fusion Shipyard 446/475 (E die, 20 R) (86% chance)
--[] High Density Housing Bay 0/325 (1 die, 20 R) (1/3.5 median)
--[] Medium Density Housing Bay 0/325 (1 die, 20 R) (1/3.5 median)
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 324/1045 (4 dice, 100 R) (4/8 median)
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 229/520 (4 dice, 80 R) (92% chance Phase 4)

--[] Make Political Promises 1 die auto
---[] Starbound: Complete Sub-Orbital Shuttles Phase 3, Shala, Columbia, and 2 more housing bays before the election.
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Hell yeah, les gooo. 🚀 📈

[X] Plan Attempting to Storm the Heavens
 
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Simon_Jester said:
--[] Medium Density Housing Bay 0/325 (1 die, 20 R) (1/3.5 median)
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Wait. We just completed the medium bay.

Are you making another medium bay? Can we do that?

Wouldn't it be better to put this into a different kind of bay so we could get different data points from it? Maybe the spaceport, hospital, or low density housing?

Actually, since this is the population in space station, the hospital one to avoid needing to send people to earth for medical emergencies and the local spaceport for commutes to and from wherever make the most sense to me.
 
bigking321 said:
I completely agree that it is important and could have big effects. We should consider them after the alloy factories. Maybe take the offer of trade with nod for STUs? Not sure.

Of course the really big problem there is that we need to start North Boston after alloys as well.
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My concern is I don't think we'll have the stus for people to want to take it after a round of alloys, given the other possible spending.

We have +8 now, -2 coming from gravitics. Three stages of alloys at -2 each, infernium lasers at -1 (for now?), repulsorplates at -4, -2 microfusion labs, and -2 zrbite deployment. We can get +1 from nod, and we'll probably (not mathing this) get somewhere around 2 as we roll out refinery refits. That still leaves a net -6 if we do these projects.

Given the plate factory cost, I'm worried that'll be the one we chop, and that we'll miss out on the narrative benefits it might provide in the deep red zones and that have been hinted at with the next tier of refinery upgrades.


[X] Plan Karachi Shield Alloys
This at least breaks ground, though I still think more rounds of alloys at this point are a mistake until we have more stu income
 
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