Makes me wonder why we got a project to add low quality housing, are we needing to prepare for yet more refugees?
[X] Plan Go For The Veins
[X] Plan Feed Zocom, Orbital VI
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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
[X] Plan Go For The Veins
[X] Plan Feed Zocom, Orbital VI
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Depending on how it's implemented I can see a use for it.
If it's just a missile sled from orbit, maybe not that useful compared to a k-rod, and much more niche. But if it's more like an orbit-droppable box launcher where it lands, and then provides fires on demand without reentry window restrictions, that could be very handy.
[X] Plan Forging the Golden Spike
Ace of Scarabs
Mechanoid Pilot
- Location
- Singapore
[X] Plan Attempting To Invade The Tiberium.
The former sounds much more useful to me? A swarm of cruise missiles that you can call down on command is pretty damn useful. Dumb chunks of metal using nothing but kinetic energy are a very inefficient way to kill anything but a really deep bunker if you have precision guided explosives to bring far more energy to the party. An orbitally deployed cruise missile swarm can fuck up ion disruptors, and if we can build in a loiter time they can provide on-demand precision fires for OSRCT (and other branches) anywhere in the world.
Sorry, I can't hear you, I'm being even smugger than the Ten Very Smug Slann. 🐸
But if I could, I'd acknowledge that's what I said about DAE, that you might possibly have a point about the ultralights, Services may get reconsidered (although I disagree about finishing the current phase of Hospitals, I think we want more Health), and that more Zone Armor production will allow for more aggressive training regimes.
I believe it's because we get to do multiples of the Shala/Columbia bays, where the Enterprise bays were more individual.
And, by request, adding a plan variant that sacrifices the health elements of Services for this turn, in favor of getting a start on Reykjavik and doing the Orbital AEVA.
[X] Plan Feed Zocom
-[X]Infrastructure 5 dice +36 5/5 50R
--[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 9) 82/160 2 dice 20R 100%
--[X] Communal Housing Experiments 0/150 2 dice 20R 87%
--[X] Green Architecture Risk Assessment and Testing 0/90 1 die 10R 67%
-[X]Heavy Industry 4 dice +33 4/4 55R
--[X] Advanced Alloys Development 56/120 1 die 15R 90%
--[X] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 0/300 2 dice 20R
--[X] Chicago Planned City (Phase 4) 529/550 1 die 20R 100%
-[X]Light and Chemical Industry 4 dice +28 4/4 50R
--[X] Civilian Ultralight Factories 0/190 2 dice 30R 34%
--[X] Isolinear Peripherals Development 0/160 2 dice 20R 70%
-[X]Agriculture 4 dice +28 4/4 30R
--[X] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 56/450 3 dice 30R
--[X] 1 die for security review
-[X]Tiberium 7 dice +38 14/7 345R
--[X] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2+3) 5/385? 5 dice 100R 88%
--[X] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 2+3) 101/500 5 dice 125R 81%
--[X] Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 1) 0/255 4 dice 120R 98%
--[-] Tiberium Harvesting Claw Deployment 363/380 0 dice autocompletes end of turn
-[X]Orbital 6 dice +30 6/6 110R
--[X] Station Bay 248/400 2 dice 40R 79%
--[X] Leopard II Factory 152/400 3 dice 60R 57%
--[X] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11) 32/85 1 die 10R 93%
-[X]Services 5 dice +31 2/5 85R
--[X] Gene Clinics (New) 0/120 1 die 10R 23%
--[X] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 213/300 1 die 25R 56%
--[X] Kamisuwa Optical Laboratories (New) 0/250 2 dice 40R 4%
--[X] Specialist Isolinear Programming Development 0/120 1 die 10R 32%
-[X]Military 8 dice +30 8/8 130R
--[X] Infantry Recon Support Drone Development 0/40 1 die 10R 100%
--[X] Railgun Munitions Factories (Phase 1) 0/200 2 dice 20R 29%
--[X] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 3+4) (Updated) 0/360 4 dice 80R 35%
--[X] Unmanned Support Ground Vehicle Development 0/80 1 die 20R 71%
-[X]Bureaucracy 4 dice +28 4+E 0R
--[X] Recruitment Drives max DC 200: 3 dice + Erewhon 96%
--[X] Security Reviews: Agriculture DC50 0/50 1 die 94%
855/855R
[X] Plan Feed Zocom, Orbital VI
-[X]Infrastructure 5 dice +36 5/5 50R
--[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 9) 82/160 2 dice 20R 100%
--[X] Communal Housing Experiments 0/150 2 dice 20R 87%
--[X] Green Architecture Risk Assessment and Testing 0/90 1 die 10R 67%
-[X]Heavy Industry 4 dice +33 4/4 55R
--[X] Advanced Alloys Development 56/120 1 die 15R 90%
--[X] Personal Electric Vehicle Plants 0/300 2 dice 20R
--[X] Chicago Planned City (Phase 4) 529/550 1 die 20R 100%
-[X]Light and Chemical Industry 4 dice +28 4/4 60R
--[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 50/1280 2 dice 40R
--[X] Isolinear Peripherals Development 0/160 2 dice 20R 70%
-[X]Agriculture 4 dice +28 4/4 30R
--[X] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 3) 56/450 3 dice 30R
--[X] 1 die for security review
-[X]Tiberium 7 dice +38 14/7 345R
--[X] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2+3) 5/385? 5 dice 100R 88%
--[X] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 2+3) 101/500 5 dice 125R 81%
--[X] Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 1) 0/255 4 dice 120R 98%
--[-] Tiberium Harvesting Claw Deployment 363/380 0 dice autocompletes end of turn
-[X]Orbital 6 dice +30 6/6 100R
--[X] Station Bay 248/400 2 dice 40R 79%
--[X] Leopard II Factory 152/400 3 dice 60R 57%
--[X] 1 die dedicated to AEVA
-[X]Services 5 dice +31 5/5 80R
--[X] Gene Clinics (New) 0/120 1 die 10R 23%
--[X] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Deployment 0/200 3 dice 60R 88%
--[X] Specialist Isolinear Programming Development 0/120 1 die 10R 32%
-[X]Military 8 dice +30 8/8 130R
--[X] Infantry Recon Support Drone Development 0/40 1 die 10R 100%
--[X] Railgun Munitions Factories (Phase 1) 0/200 2 dice 20R 29%
--[X] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Set 1) (Phase 3+4) (Updated) 0/360 4 dice 80R 35%
--[X] Unmanned Support Ground Vehicle Development 0/80 1 die 20R 71%
-[X]Bureaucracy 4 dice +28 4+E 0R
--[X] Recruitment Drives max DC 200: 3 dice + Erewhon 96%
--[X] Security Reviews: Agriculture DC50 0/50 1 die 94%
850/855R
Approval voting:
[X] Plan Go For The Veins
[X] Plan First Quarter Blues Mk III (Orbital AEVA Remix, Final Rev)
[X] Plan Yeeted Into The Red Zones
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Worst case, having a big Low Quality Housing buffer isn't bad, and it makes it considerably safer for us to start converting the old commieblocks.
I'm going to be seriously looking at the fine-tuning of Attempting To Invade The Tiberium to maximize chance of getting the third glacier mine phase, if I still have hopes of doing that. Need to think.
It's a reward for Seo personally having gotten through a full Four Year Plan. I think Granger got something similar in 2054.
Also...
"Still seems too expensive dice wise to be practical. Definitely not an option with the massive refugee wave. Why do arcologies provide so little housing anyway, those should be extremely pop dense."
Because GDI's idea of an arcology is very luxurious, and because a lot of infrastructure has to be built into them. The population density drops off a lot when you try to include all the park space and light industry space and commercial space that a population requires all in the same building with the luxury condos they live in.
As to the housing crisis more generally...
The refugee wave has already dropped from -10 Housing/turn to -5 Housing/turn. Either it'll taper off to zero quickly, or just chug along at this more moderate rate for a few more turns. Either way, we are in much, much less danger of actually running out of Housing buffer now, especially with the Communal Housing option coming up this turn.
This also impacts the "upgrade housing" option you're kind of down on. We've got much better chances of keeping our Housing buffer reasonably thick, and we may be closer than we realize to the culmination of our current massive Housing expansion wave.
Still, I'd like to research green and communal housing before doing the rebuilds of the existing commieblocks. Maybe we can get a more favorable rate of exchange.
Heavy Industry (4 dice +33 bonus)
I am getting rather worried about that fusion plant longevity thing and we have quite a bit of Bergen not, perhaps do this now or soon?
Hm. No shortage of CapGs or Energy currently so we should perhaps focus on this I think. Its what people want given that +10 Political Support. Maybe do the above Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development first though?
Given that we're at +43 Energy right now, I say we do electric cars this turn and improved fusion next turn.
On a side note, microfusion cells weren't snapped up immediately because they only revolutionize very specific applications, and only with an attached STU cost. I'm not against them, but I got burned trying to put them into a 2061 plan and I don't feel like getting burned again, so I'm gonna prioritize.
]Light and Chemical Industry (4 dice +28 bonus)
I remember being told that Phase 5 will not discount Zone Armor further, but why is that (Reduces cost of mech and zone armor projects) still there in that case? Also seems to me that it would make sense if it did. If it does, that would make completing this a priority.
Though this one is first priority. For better fusion plants and the PS that indicates that it is widely desired.
Bergen is massively expensive, and getting to that desired PS payoff is going to be a long, hard road. Reykjavik is important, but not so important that we should delay the Set 1 power armor factories for it, because we authentically need those, and the cost reductions of having even more myomers only helps so much.
As for nanotubes, it's not multiphase because 300 Progress is a "normal-sized" project for us. Subdividing it into two 150-point phases is arguably taking things a bridge too far.
Agriculture (4 dice +28 bonus)
Huh, was this action updated? I remember it being meh but now its competitive with:
Mechanization didn't change. It's just that the second phase of the project was always marginally more efficient than the first.
I agree that Vertical Farming is more relevant for Food than Consoom, but it also has the virtue of not costing Logistics... at the cost of costing Energy.
Also, I hate to break this to you, but we have already agreed to do two phases of dairy ranching. People want to be able to eat butter and cheese, even if it is "no great hardship" to not have them. Also, larger scale facilities in which to raise animals is something the Biodiversity Party wants, and I'm pretty sure they want it for a good reason.
Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations Phase 3 is on pretty much everyone's docket for 2062Q1, because we don't urgently need more Food (so there's no need to do aquaponics bays) and everything else costs 15 R/die, which makes it too expensive for right now.
As for poulticeplants, there's interest, but our Health indicator is holding at +13 as I recall, and we have a very good idea how to increase it from there. No pressing need to act on it right away until we're more confident and squared away on our Plan commitments in Agriculture.
All the dice we can scrounge up the Rs for should be spend here. If that means spending all the free die here, do it. Start with Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining, 3 die probably for 72% chance probably I think, and then mainline Red Zone Border Offensives until they run out.
You will be looking, then, for either my Plan Attempting To Invade The Tiberium or @Crazycryodude 's Plan Forging The Golden Spike.
And yes, the special tiberium silo project is for "what to do in case of a major refinery problem." Actually building the things may also generalize to more efficient tiberium handling procedures in the long run, too, but we've always seen it as a "nice to have" optional project.
Hm, Shala is more popular and provides Bays. Shala first then.
I disagree. Both projects are popular, both realistically get done, but...
Well, the Starbound Party, who are generally agreed to be GDI's biggest space advocates, have always been consistent about treating Columbia as more important than Shala in terms of how much they're willing to reward us for it.
Furthermore, Columbia unlocks "actually know how to build permanent space habitats that don't stink to live in," which is an important factor for ongoing space industrial development. Conditions in the barracks at our moon mines, for example, are terrible.
Services (5 dice +31 bonus)
With our current glut of CapGs, might it be time for one of these?
I favor the Orbital AEVA almost immediately, because it will reduce quasi-mandatory Free dice expenditure on hitting our ambitious space population target.
With that said... I don't think the hospital expansions are actually that high priority. The Health indicator is solid, and our population's actual needs seem to be met. People are fairly happy with living in cities that have well established clinics but where most serious medical issues require that you be flown in a VTOL craft to a better-established hospital farther back in the Blue Zones.
But in 2062Q2 I'll be in favor of putting one die on the Phase 1 expansion in an attempt to finish it off.
I don't agree with you, though, that the labs are a higher priority than rollout of the existing implants. Read the text of the deployment option carefully; it's time-critical, at least for some patients. The longer you go without the ability to see, the more your brain reallocates processing power to other senses, and that reallocation doesn't necessarily bounce back.
For the probably sizeable number of people who were (for instance) blinded by laser sidescatter during the Regency Wars, getting big ugly implants now that can be swapped out with something better later could make a big difference, compared to having to wait 2-3 years for a bunch of lab technicians to design something with a smaller form factor.
I'd rather roll out the existing optical implants for those who want them, then work on the second generation. The perfect is the enemy of the good, and being able to see with a big ugly rig bolted to your head as opposed to not being able to see is still good.
I think we'll have to redesign the MARVs with tendrils to get the benefit. A MARV is much more complex and large scale than normal harvesters, so it's a more extensive rebuild.
Hmm. I'm not sure about LVPAD. We've got so much else on the docket that I'm not sure we have time for deployment. Though I do think we should try to develop it before getting too far into North Boston Phase 5, because it might turn out to be really helpful for microchip production.
...Bold. I'd never have even considered doing a Bergen die this early on in the Plan. I figure that Phase 3 of the plant is enough to meet immediate needs, and we'll need something like eight or nine dice to finish off the phase, which isn't really affordable for now. If it was me, I'd have put a second die on the ultralights and banked the 15 R; we will assuredly be able to find a good home for the money next turn.
I'm not sure it's a good idea to do the Service AEVA. Sure, it's a Plan promise, but we're not in a hurry and it's not going to help that much with near-term project goals unless we roll very specific unlucky numbers. I'd rather put the AEVA on Orbital, where we definitely need all the help we can get.
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- Location
- USA
I ended up with enough R to fit Bergen in, and slowly working on that over time will help with the price shock that it is. As it is seems like something that would help with next gen power. As for R, I went very aggressive on income with the 7-7 split which should see an increase of more than the rollover we had coming into this turn with the floor, if we hit average or closer to ceiling it ends up a good chunk more at which point we can up spending a bit next turn so still pull off a full activation. And with likely swapping to vein mining tib category will go down in costs.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think it might be a bit premature to start the refits, because we aren't done with the Regency War refugee wave yet. It's tapered off but it's not gone. With that said, I'm not against this, though I'd much rather do the communal housing work. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being at 45 Political Support, and we have electric car factories and Columbia coming down the pipeline soon to bring support back up.
I understand that R&D is your plan's whole thing, but I'd strongly recommend that you shift the H-G process die to the glacier mines, if only to be more sure of actually getting that extra 75 RpT of income from the second super glacier mine.
My own view is that it's not worth rolling one die on Bergen at a time if we won't be able to afford to finish the project until some time in 2063 anyway due to lack of funds. There's not much functional difference between rolling 1-1-2-3-2 and clearing Bergen in 2063Q1, and rolling 0-0-2-4-3 or some such. And Bergen construction lacks formal urgency, unless we know we need it to manufacture any second generation fusion plants... which we do not know at this time, because we haven't even designed the new plants yet.
If I were in your shoes, I'd put that die on Reykjavik or carbon nanotubes, because we'll be more capable of committing to finishing what we start in those areas.
Because we will always have an option to build more bulk housing, even if strictly speaking we don't need it. From a game standpoint, that's one of those things that the Treasury can't lose the ability to do.
Also, it gives us a bulk housing option we can use as an "abort switch" to avoid spending the last -6 Logistics on the apartment expansions. Which is... tempting, to put it mildly. I was tempted even knowing it was low quality housing.
Dammit, I really do wish the option had been +3 HQ Housing instead of +4 LQ or something. Even at +2 HQ Housing per phase it'd have been almost as good as the existing Blue Zone Arcologies project.
Actually a lot more useful.
Kinetic rods dropped from orbit have serious problems with precision terminal guidance. You need a direct hit in order to accomplish anything, after all. It's not like with an ICBM warhead where just getting anywhere within a kilometer or so is good enough because even hardened targets won't survive the nuclear explosion that close in.
You can also get a lot more flexible with the payloads for orbital missile sleds, so you can deploy things that aren't just a solid tungsten telephone pole. You can deploy submunitions, or a high speed reconnaissance drone, or loitering munitions, for instance.
I get it, but like I said to Redciv, I'd spend the die on nanotubes or Reykjavik, personally.
I figure that at this point, more phases of Bergen doesn't make the research project produce a better fusion plant.
We're already on Phase 3. Either we easily have enough superconductor production to build a prototype plant that uses superconductors heavily, or even with Phase 5 we'll never have enough to build a meaningful number of plants anyway, making the subject moot. The design itself will probably be the same regardless of which phase of Bergen we're on, therefore, now that we have enough phases that the designers know "relatively cheap superconductors" are going to be A Thing no matter which option they choose.
What's going to make Bergen Phase 4+5 relevant is when we start slamming out phase after phase of the new plants. It may turn out to be like Enterprise, where unlocking higher phases of the project unlocks more phases of
But in that case, working on Bergen Phase 4 right now is putting the cart before the horse. It's like how we wouldn't consider building tiberium refineries we won't have the mining capacity to fill in the foreseeable future (unless it's a Plan commitment, of course).
By contrast, the sooner we roll out Reykjavik Phase 5, the better our outlook is for finishing the Zone Armor production targets easily.
(this is actually part of why I'm not on board with @Lightwhispers ' wanting to rush ahead to the fourth factory so fast; I'm willing to build factories without Phase 5's benefits, but I'm not sure I want to speed-run ahead to finishing ALL the factories without them)
[X] Plan Forging the Golden Spike
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
[X] Plan Feed Zocom, Orbital VI
[X] Plan Forging the Golden Spike
I like the new rifle development, and I like UGSVs. Maybe when I have more brain I'll be able to pick a difference.
I also find it strange Dairy is so food expensive. People have been using cows for farming for thousands of years. Milk and butter are staple foods. Is it part of the domes? Or will the cost balance out over time?
[X] Plan Forging the Golden Spike
I like the new rifle development, and I like UGSVs. Maybe when I have more brain I'll be able to pick a difference.
I also find it strange Dairy is so food expensive. People have been using cows for farming for thousands of years. Milk and butter are staple foods. Is it part of the domes? Or will the cost balance out over time?
Livestock are also notoriously calorie-inefficient, which is mostly what our Food indicator represents. We're losing like 90%+ of the calories we feed those cows to their metabolisms. Historically livestock would help traditional farmers recycle waste food and things humans normally can't eat, but it's not like there's vast grasslands we can let them graze on, and industrial recycling systems are probably more efficient these days. So livestock farmed in a climate-controlled dome rather than grazed on natural fodder are a net negative on food energy in the system, even if it gives you other more desirable things than raw calories.
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We're going to have 4 more sets of factories to do. I'm pretty okay with doing most of Set 1 without Reykjavik Phase 5's benefits.
- Location
- Canada
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Attempting To Invade The Tiberium
*Brandishes sonic blaster with malicious intent*
*Brandishes sonic blaster with malicious intent*
Its actually a thing In real life. Instead of farming food for people. Its farming food to feed cows and stuff. since the more cows you have the more room you have to either dedicate for their grazing or Farming food for them to eat instead.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The problem is that so far as I know, we have no direct reliable means of tracking subterranean tiberium other than "drill a borehole." Seismography should help but it only gets you so far.
So I'm not worried about baselines.
I think I'm mainly worried about prioritizing Blue Zones near, as noted, actual subduction faults. Since we're committed to building three Blue Zone inhibitors anyway. The Red Zone inhibitors are a separate issue because they're gated behind MARV hubs.
And it is, I gather, near a subduction fault.
Not quite though we're thinking ahead to it.
It needs to be started in Q4 of a year, to provide good construction time before the Q3 monsoon season. We could in theory go ahead in 2062Q4, but I think many of us want to wait until 2063Q4 to give the Navy a little more time to get ships up and running.