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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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mmgaballah said:
IF's entire platform is that they are opposed to Nod and Kane along with anyone associated with them no matter how much removed(hence the yellow zoner hate) , I don't think they are gonna start working with Nod of all things
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They don't have to know they are being used to be used. As ironic as it would be to have NOD inflame patriotism and nationalism, so they could profit off of IF, or start radicalizing them, I don't want to deal with it.
 
Rakuhn said:
If it helps any, the purpose behind most of the low goals is to make it so that we have room to make those promises at a later date (if convenient) for PS and party support.

So, we're currently looking at ~8-10k (per Ithillid's earlier post) progress to get 20k pop in space. Assuming that the station bay and other space accelerators are net neutral in progress, that means that we are looking at ~95-118 dice required (base 76, +4 from Seo completing his first plan, +5 from Seo station building, not including +1 from Kudzu) . We get 96 orbital dice per plan. So we're looking at 0-22 free dice required, or a little less than than 1.5 free dice per turn out of 7. We're also in position to increase our orbital and free dice through hiring. I think we averaged 2.5-3 free dice per turn last plan in the military, not including expenditures on supporting projects (such as power/cap goods, FT/rails, or YZ harvesting)?

I think that 20k population in space is readily achievable, even without packing people in like sardines.
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It's not that it's unachievable, it's that it would eat so many dice we could use for other things, things that are of equal or greater importance. Aiming for 20K in space is fine, even if I don't like it. Hard commitment to 20K is an albatross we've no need for and is just going to limit us, especially when we've already got other commitments. It feels like sacrificing everything else to do some we shouldn't do. We've got important medical technologies that need funding, cities to build, megaprojects to stand up, technologies to develop and deploy, Tiberium to fight, delicious foods to make available and Mad Science to indulge in. And with a 20K space goal, everything has to be made to work around that, and I hate it.
 
Kairos123 said:
They don't have to know they are being used to be used. As ironic as it would be to have NOD inflame patriotism and nationalism, so they could profit off of IF, or start radicalizing them, I don't want to deal with it.
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Nod has better and easier targets among the yellow zoner refugees who spent their entire lives exposed to Nod indoctrination and often reside close the the borders , IF on the other are almost entirely living in the deepest blue zones were the surveillance state of the GDI is at its most Big-Brother and InOps has every advantage

trying to go after IF is not worth it cost benefit wise , first they would need to infiltrate the deepest blue zones in force for an extended period of time , then they would need to contend with InOps in where they have the home field advantage and then they have to subvert an entire political party all while maintaining perfect stealth throughout the whole operation cause if InOps or IF catch winds of what they are trying to do the whole thing fails as the plan hinges on IF not knowing in the slightest that they are being used by Nod

plus Kane wants IF gone likely as much as we in the thread do , since they are the ones most likely to oppose , undermine or sabotage any deal with Kane for the TCN
 
Are those who are IF, or IF leaning, potentially able to walk back their racism and xenophobia?

I consider GDIWife and how she seems to be more embracing of Yellow Zoners than what she used to be.

Ithillid said:
Night-Runner
#GDIWife Why do you have to keep being so mean? I've heard my parents talking late at night when they think I've gone to sleep and they're scared because of people like you! I was too little to remember much when we came over the border but I remember them talking about getting a chance to find something better. All they wanted was somewhere safe and you want to throw them back out!
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Ithillid said:
GDIWife
#Night-Runner Sweetie, you don't have to be worried, we don't want to throw out good people like I'm sure your parents are. The problem is that there are bad people that hide with the good ones. We just want to be able to find them to protect all the good people, including you and your parents
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Ithillid said:
GDIWife
The poor dear, I know bullying is a problem for many children and she probably has it worse than most. I wonder if there are any groups that can help these kids learn to fit in better, or at least give them a social outlet.
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It's like she's slowly realizing that Yellow Zoners are people or something. Especially when she sees that there are children being bullied.

Does that mean there are IF people who can be appealed to when they realize most Yellow Zoners are just people?
 
EternalStruggle said:
but our people are safe enough from it that they're by and large willing to not be single-issue voters over the subject of abatement.
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Also that pushing back tiberium is a mainstream position that the developmentalists and socialists are willing to support. Or at least through increasing income which basically adds abatement too in most cases since harvesting tib is a major money earner.
 
FaxModem1 said:
Are those who are IF, or IF leaning, potentially able to walk back their racism and xenophobia?
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IF voters are definitely redeemable. But I think it's more of a de-programming. In which the first steps are typically to separate them from the group that had radicalized them in the first place, and letting them come to realize that what they were taught does not match reality.

So, in GDI wife's case, because she didn't live in segregated housing she was able to encounter YZers, and learn that not all of them matched the propaganda that she had consumed. She still has a long way to go, imo.

So the important thing is to disempower the institutions (such as the IF) that are attempting to spread unfounded hatred, and to increase integration.
 
This thread can't handle anything even remotely resembling RL politics. The entire discussion this turn was taken over by knife-fighting over IF, and meanwhile all the details about the next four years got swept underneath. Super fun to read through. Not.
Lightwhispers said:
Completely out-of-the-blue thing:
@Derpmind - the Probability Array is showing that we have 5 HI dice, but I'm pretty sure we only get 4, unless we got one from somewhere that I am forgetting?
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Nah, that's just an error on my part. Fixed now, thanks for spotting it.
 
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Yeah I'm not thrilled that it's basically come down to a single-issue "what do we do about IF?" vote. There's quite a bit we should be arguing about for the ACTUAL FYP targets that will dominate the next IRL year of gameplay.

Honestly, since there's been basically zero real discussion about what this vote is nominally supposed to be discussing, could we maybe get a re-do on the actual targets that nobody has talked about once the IF issue is settled one way or another?
 
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I dropped Simon's plan from my votes because I really rather have more breathing room than 20k pop in space would give us. And I added a couple plans that ignored IF because it wasn't enough of a hot button issue to lose out a good plan against a 20k space pop plan simply because I wanted to give IF a chance to change into a less asshole party by having senpai notice them briefly.

My main sticking point the last day or so has been more "I want more wiggle room for dealing with 3-4+ megaprojects, ALL OF KARACHI, extensive congoods growth, etc over the next four years than I feel 20k space pop and 'no free dice unless all dept dice activated' allows."
 
looks like 20k space is locked in, Since the 20k space plans are 4/12 votes above the third place vote (which doesnt do 20k space) and unless we get a swing of 9 votes, then not prosperously just not including IF will win. So time to Have Homegrown terrorists(now instead of potentially in the future).
 
FaxModem1 said:
Does that mean there are IF people who can be appealed to when they realize most Yellow Zoners are just people?
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Yes.

That does not mean we need to give them a cookie for having grasped basic decency. They're voters, so they're adults. We expect them to understand that.

So, sure, if IF voters decide to stop voting IF and vote for a party we actually like, or at least can work with, give them their cookie. But if they are grasping that YZers are people too but they're still voting for the people whose platforms include 'make sure they don't get top level education' and 'deny them access to the best housing', and doing so on the singular distinction of being from the Yellow Zones, well.

At that point I am wondering not if they're stupid, I am certain that they delight in the suffering they cause. Which is not an improvement.
 
dbRevned said:
looks like 20k space is locked in, Since the 20k space plans are 4/12 votes above the third place vote (which doesnt do 20k space) and unless we get a swing of 9 votes, then not prosperously just not including IF will win. So time to Have Homegrown terrorists(now instead of potentially in the future).
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Don't worry, we already have plenty of homegrown terrorists. It's Nod specialty, after all. It's one of the reasons why we are funding InOps so heavily.

That said, I think this will actually be a net decrease in homegrown terrorists, tbh. As we're taking a stance against a small portion of our population wanting to literally enact segregation, and kick students, researchers, and professors out of universities for the crime of being born on the wrong side of an imaginary line. Protecting our people from bullies and bigots will do a lot more to prevent Nod from inciting unrest and terrorism than publically working hand in hand with people who want to ruin their lives (and who probably frequently do so, at the local and individual levels).
 
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[X] Plan Attempting To Go To Space (grudgingly with Initiative First)

Well, I don't really want to have to crash for 20k Space Pop, but I also think IF will be less problematic to deal with if they're not radicalized.
 
FaxModem1 said:
Are those who are IF, or IF leaning, potentially able to walk back their racism and xenophobia?

I consider GDIWife and how she seems to be more embracing of Yellow Zoners than what she used to be.

It's like she's slowly realizing that Yellow Zoners are people or something. Especially when she sees that there are children being bullied.

Does that mean there are IF people who can be appealed to when they realize most Yellow Zoners are just people?
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That was originally because she was going to change to Militarist when our freezing IF out reduced their numbers. Then they rolled 90+ on their dice and that went out of the window.

It's worth noting that GDIWife as she is is still plenty racist, note how whenever she refers to 'security' it's almost always to do with limiting YZer immigration. Think of her as the kind of fox news watching person who screamed about the refugee caravan and how it contained islamists who were out to introduce sharia law to the country, meanwhile she actually knows and quite likes a couple of muslims because they're the 'right kind'

Edit: Okay, actually originally I introduced her as essentially a screaming racist harpy but when I realised I'd be writing her for a while I decided to go for something more interesting
 
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bigking321 said:
Please change the 20k space thing.

That is really going to make doing anything in space besides population things incredibly hard.
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I feel its kinda late to be changing anything major with the plans, there's only 2 hours and change left on the vote. I think doing what @Crazycryodude suggests and redoing the vote with the IF issue shelved is a good idea, we really haven't talked about a lot of things that need talking about.
 
Derpmind said:
This thread can't handle anything even remotely resembling RL politics. The entire discussion this turn was taken over by knife-fighting over IF, and meanwhile all the details about the next four years got swept underneath. Super fun to read through. Not.
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Yeah.
My objections to the leading plans:
-20k population in space means we are effectively locked out of a lot of flexibility if we want to do anything other than sticking people in sardine tins in orbit. And by that I mean even beyond "3 Free dice per turn to Orbital"
-I think we are putting too much in the way of promising military projects. We wrecked Nod's face. So the major issues I see that we need to address for military issues are: Zone Armor, to relieve pressure on Zocom, finishing the projects we were working on like Wingman Drones, building up space naval capability (in conjunction with Orbital infrastructure, see the above point), and developing and preparing to deploy the next generation of vehicles/weapons platforms.

... that's really the big stuff.
 
If we are redoing the vote, I'd lock in the IF orbital goal, percent income, and expenses as those were the top differentiators between the leading plans.

At that point though, does anyone really want to do another round of reallocation?
 
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BOTcommander said:
You mean Plan 4 Round 2 or the eventual Plan 5 reallocation?
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Plan 4 round 2. I figure that plan 5 reallocation is going to be built on very different assumptions (pop already in space, neutral/positive pop growth rate, more party divergence, Karachi finished, industrial captones completed, initial stations completed, maybe TCN, maybe project Vision, lunar/martian operations), and might be structured differently due to lessons learned.

As an example, in plan 5 realloc, we'd probably see more 'dev and deploy' military projects (especially in regard to space), rather than our current slate of many, but tiny, dev projects.
 
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Since the vote isn't over, have this very brief modification of the leading plan that drops the 20k promise to 10k, with no other changes. Is it inefficient to take promises without reaching a threshold? Yes, but we can go without 50 votes because the plan has a large enough margin as is, and I still like having a specific commitment to space population. Dunno if there'll be enough time for the vote to swing but I figured since the 20k was pretty controversial, might as well.

[X] Plan Attempting To Go To Space But Slower (without Initiative First)
-[X] 30% (770 Resources per turn) (-10 PS)
-[X] Pick 3 industrial capstones. (-10 PS)
-[X] 120 Consumer Goods points from the Treasury
-[X] 40 Consumer Goods from Agriculture (-5 PS)
-[X] 1200 points Income Increase (+ Everyone support)
-[X] 10k: (+10 Political Support) (+ Developmentalist Support, + Starbound Support)
-[X] 40 Points of Red Zone Abatement
-[X] Spin off Commitments
--[X] Forgotten Aid Resources‌ (-15‌ ‌allocated‌ ‌to‌ ‌the‌ ‌Forgotten)‌ (-1 PS)
--[X] Light Industry Grants‌(-55 ‌allocated‌ ‌to‌ ‌grants)‌ (-30 PS)
--[X] Resettlement Spending (-5 from Resettlement) (-1 PS)
--[X] Distributed Heavy Industrial Authority (-30 from Distributed Heavy Industrial Authority) (-20 PS)
-[X] Party Promises
--[X] Free Market Party (4 promises, 0 + 55 + 33 = 88 votes)
---[X] Increase GDI income by at least 800 points.
---[X] 30 resources in grants
---[X] Take 120 points of Consumer Goods (includes 100 goal)
--[X] Market Socialists (6 promises, 200 + 155 = 355 votes)
---[X] Increase GDI income by at least 1200 (includes 800 goal)
---[X] Take 40 points of Abatement
--[X] Militarists (6 promises, 250 + 274 + 140 = 664 votes)
---[X] Complete SADN Phase 4
---[X] Spend at least one die on Steel Talons projects every turn
---[X] Complete at least eight Ground Forces Zone Armor plants (includes 6 goal)
---[X] Complete ten of the following (weapons development) projects (includes 3 and 7 goals)
----[X] Since we have to specify, I'm promising...
----[X] Advanced ECCM Development, Stealth Disruptor Development, Infantry Recon Support Drone Development, Zrbite Sonic Weapons Development, Ultralight Glide Munitions Development, Transorbital Fighter Development or follow on heavy ship development, Combat Laser Development, Modular Rapid Assembly System Prototypes, Buckler Shield Development, and Unmanned Support Ground Vehicle Development
----[X] No disrespect to the other projects. Fine with doing those too. But there's no political benefit to swearing to.
--[X] United Yellow List (2 promises, 110 + 40 = 150 votes)
---[X] Increase GDI processing limit by at least 1200
---[X] Increase GDI income by at least 800
--[X] Starbound (3 promises, 300 + 90 = 390 votes)
---[X] Commit to at least 10k population in space
--[X] Socialist (3 promises, 200 + 190 + 26 = 416 votes)
---[X] Commit to at least 10k population in space
--[X] Homeland Party (1 promise, 25 + 25 = 50 votes)
---[X] Complete all phases of Red Zone Border Offensives before 2064
--[X] Reclamation Party (1 promise, 9 + 3 = 12 votes)
---[X] Complete all phases of Red Zone Border Offensives by End of Plan before 2064
--[X] Biodiversity (1 promise, 9 + 5 = 14 votes)
---[X] Complete two phases of Reforestation Preparation
--[X] Developmentalists (7 promises, 480 + 258 = 738 votes)
---[X] Commit to at least 10k Population in Space (already given freely)
---[X] Spend no more than 3 Free Dice on Military per turn (already given freely)
---[X] Build at least eight Ground Forces Zone Armor Factories (includes 4 goal)
--[X] Litvinov Objectives
---[X] Do not activate Free Dice (except for Tiberium) unless all Department Dice are active.
---[X] Spend no more than two free dice per turn on Military.
---[X] Munitions Department
---[X] Refit Department
---[X] Hand off at least 20 points of Capital Goods to market over course of plan.
---[X] Complete Improved Hewlett Gardener Refits before end of plan
--[X] Initiative First gets nothing

[X] Plan Plowshares
[x] Plan Attempting To Go To Space (without Initiative First)
 
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