Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
My interpret is that it counts as the combined stack of the "10000" goal (one promise) and the "20000" goal (which, unusually, counts as two promises). Sort of like how a "120 Consumer Goods" promise enfolds a "100 Consumer Goods" promise and contains it.
If it turns out I'm wrong, it doesn't actually change anything, because we didn't need that specific slice of Starbound voters for the plan to be viable.
Lunar water mines aren't useful except in support of large lunar colonies. And if we had the option to build large lunar colonies yet, we wouldn't be arguing over something as relatively small as "20000 more people in space."
Solar power station are useful only if we're building still further space factory megacomplexes, and we've already got one, and we're explicitly being called out on how our space industrial base is like offshore oil rigs in that it's all a very unpleasant place to work because we haven't done any research into habitability.
We spent the entire Third Four Year Plan building up space industrial capacity and the moon mines, but that was done in support of long-term colonization and habitability goals.
So I consider the water mines and power stations in question to be insufficiently desirable when viewed as short term goals in and of themselves, because we don't need them until and unless we're ready to solve the problems we'd already need to solve anyway.
I think the added ability to shape the narrative is so marginal as to be largely inconsequential to the point where worrying about it becomes something of a tempest in a teapot.
The existence of a stable supermajority antizonist political coalition for the past ten years suggests that not only do they not have a true "silent majority," they don't even have the advantage real life far-right parties enjoy of "there are actually 3-4 people who kind of agree with me for every person willing to admit to being a member of my group."
IF's actual vote share is unlikely to change in any meaningful degree from the effect you're talking about. See "tempest in a teapot" above.
F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
I've now made the edits to my plans.
EDIT: Also don't forget that we owe InOps at least 60RPT a year.
What about the times when we don't want to activate all the dice in a department because we don't want to overcommit to certain projects and/or there are projects in a department we don't want to commit to? it's not just about how many resources we have available.
EDIT: Also don't forget that we owe InOps at least 60RPT a year.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Simon should add the 100 RpD space mining goal to his plan too for maximum pain.
Also @Ithillid any chance Litinov might make a free dice exception for orbital because of our massive orbital goals or does someone know if we have an idea and a timeline when we have enough money to start activating all department dice?
Also @Ithillid any chance Litinov might make a free dice exception for orbital because of our massive orbital goals or does someone know if we have an idea and a timeline when we have enough money to start activating all department dice?
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Do we have projections on how long we can have viable populations living in space and Lunar habitats? I imagine its not something a standard civilian can currently do, our real life astronauts have to do extensive training to live at all in the environment, not speaking of the submarine syndrome people will experience rather quickly.
Is it even worth it when a drive by of visitors could make things unpleasant in the extreme? We need to finish our orbital defense network before I am comfortable with putting any amount of population in the void.
Is it even worth it when a drive by of visitors could make things unpleasant in the extreme? We need to finish our orbital defense network before I am comfortable with putting any amount of population in the void.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
GDI has already run out of viable astronautes and has termed a new type of space worker: Astrochtechniciants or Astrotechs, which are normal people with a specific skillset that are given just enough space training to use that skill in the space enrivonment they are expected to work in.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Then why take the promise at all when it will limit us in flexibility?
Like you have been talking a lot about flexibility elsewhere in the plan, but why promise 20000 lunar population when we are anyways planning to push for space colonization this plan and we could use the option of not having to commit to such a large number. We could do more than 10K population, but leave room for other orbital projects if we happen to need them.
- Location
- USA
GDI has artificial gravity tech and enough raw industry to build deep, so the average civilian could live in a properly built moon city/orbital platform indefinitely as long as it has the proper supporting inputs.
[X] Plan All The Spinoffs
[X] Plan All The Spinoffs And No Radicalization For You Mr IF
Changes look good, and it does not have the albatross of trying to get 20k people into space. Or the insane promise of not using free dice unless all department dice are active. Something we have rarely if ever done in the past.
[X] Plan All The Spinoffs And No Radicalization For You Mr IF
Changes look good, and it does not have the albatross of trying to get 20k people into space. Or the insane promise of not using free dice unless all department dice are active. Something we have rarely if ever done in the past.
We do now have other methods of pushback: political promises, Interdepartmental favors, proposing new legislation, etc.
But in general, it's probably worth you considering the possibility that the people who you say are going
are as I have repeatedly said, operating from a different premise than you, which makes your whole evaluation of the situation invalid? And doesn't lead you to accuse a large portion of people in here of a line of thought that's a hair away from victim-blaming language?
I'm done with this argument until we get more information on what the situation with Initiative First actually looks like, because it is clear we have vastly different ideas of what the situation is.
It counts as 2. But it also counts to fulfill the 10k promise, so there will be 3 promises fulfulled.
- Location
- The Underdark
Yes, it counts as three.
I will think about it.
BoSPaladin
The Paladin
Done. Spun off consumer industrial development too. (I want to keep control of the small scale grants and forgotten grants sorry)
'More sway' still isn't much. They're a major party on the edges of politics. Like, we regularly make promises to the absolutely tiny reclamation party because they have platform goals we're aligned with, namely abating tiberium.
Like there's two major factors purely relating to IF's numbers here. First that they rolled really well last election. High 90's on 2 d100's iirc. Also, at the absolute height of the regency war and the middle of the refugee crisis which resulted in an outsized share of the votes due to ordinary people panicking. Particularly with Reynaldo and Nod busy doing terror strikes. So, theoretically while they might grow, in practicality with the end of the regency war, increasing consumer goods and a bunch of stuff that non-extremist voters want, they're likely to see those concerns as met and drift back towards the devs, socialists, free market party or starbound. IF doesn't have a core base of extremist hardcore voters, they picked up a bunch of swing voters who, given time are likely to swing back to the centre. There's a chance they might grow, but, it's just as likely that they're going to shrink.
Second. We Could if we wanted to. Create a plan that doesn't make a single promise to the developmentalists and still have a working majority in parliament. Devs are the single biggest party with over 25% of the vote share in parliament themselves. And we could create a 4yp without their support. Initiative first, are the fifth biggest party with less than 10% of the vote. They're not going to grow to the size of the devs. Initiative firsts parliament numbers could double or triple in size and much like we're doing now we could either ignore them totally, or pick and choose only goals we agree with to promise.
They are not 'Forcing' us to do anything. Even with the threat/risk of further radicalisation and possible violence it remains a choice. We can ignore them totally or ignore their racist demands at will. It's a question of our strategy. There are arguments in favour of both tactics when it comes to dealing with the Initiative first. But, no matter what happens they do not and will not have any ability to force the treasury into doing anything.
Note that Litvinov already offered 'if you are short on money it is alright if you slam free dice into the money making department even if that means you cannot do stuff in the other departments'
Maybe space mines would count, then? Then again, no abatement, so maybe not.
@Ithillid can we get a rough estimate how much progress 20,000 orbital population would cost? Obviously the exact number is variable based on a million different factors, but a very general ballpark to the nearest 1,000 points or so? Right now we have absolutely nothing to go on other than vibes, maybe the 10k people beyond Shala/Columbia will fit in a Moon city that only takes a dozen dice to build, maybe it'll be a 50 dice hell march. And there's no real way for us to tell right now, so the argument is purely about who has the more powerful imagination. Can the bureaucrats give us a very rough estimate of approximately what we're looking at here?
[X] Plan Attempting To Go To Space (without Initiative First)
[X] Plan Plowshares
I still think 20k space population is a bad idea that's going to kneecap our space development past 2062. Kane isn't an idiot, if he sees that we blew our load on unsustainably building 20k sardine tins I believe he will be less scared than if we built 10k sardine tins and a big fleet of fusion barges and asteroid mining operations that mean we can sustainably pump out 10k sardine tins every year for the next decade instead of it being a backbreaking shock effort. But ultimately, I will bite the bullet on 20k people if both winning plans are going to insist on it, and fuck IF, so approval voting the leading plan that freezes them out.
[X] Plan Plowshares
I still think 20k space population is a bad idea that's going to kneecap our space development past 2062. Kane isn't an idiot, if he sees that we blew our load on unsustainably building 20k sardine tins I believe he will be less scared than if we built 10k sardine tins and a big fleet of fusion barges and asteroid mining operations that mean we can sustainably pump out 10k sardine tins every year for the next decade instead of it being a backbreaking shock effort. But ultimately, I will bite the bullet on 20k people if both winning plans are going to insist on it, and fuck IF, so approval voting the leading plan that freezes them out.