Damn... is this what it feels like to play a character that's good at politics? They can just... get people's support by talking to them? Wild, where are all the politically incompetent nerds that planquesters love?
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- Milky Way
[X]Plan Save Moneys, with more SCIENCE!
In light of ithillid's clarification, I'd like to make a last minute plea for the reclaimationists goal of an additional BZ inhibitor during the next plan.
If Kane does not come this plan, we are going to want a lot of inhibitors. Not just for the upcoming negotiations, but also to deal with the worsening underground tib crisis. And blue zone inhibitors are not only significantly cheaper than YZ/RZ inhibitors (of which, any more than the first YZ inhibitor will potentially require multiple MARVs), but are well placed to protect our industry, military, and civilians.
If Kane does not come this plan, we are going to want a lot of inhibitors. Not just for the upcoming negotiations, but also to deal with the worsening underground tib crisis. And blue zone inhibitors are not only significantly cheaper than YZ/RZ inhibitors (of which, any more than the first YZ inhibitor will potentially require multiple MARVs), but are well placed to protect our industry, military, and civilians.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Huh.
Well, that's certainly good news. If I'd been aware of that earlier I might have done a few things a little differently. Thanks for clearing that up.
On the other hand, I'm not sure I can get any mileage out of that in my current Plan draft, because I don't have spare Bureaucracy dice to play with and I'd have to change something I consider significant (e.g. my having four dice on ASAT) to change that fact.
The main thing that's caused me to hold back from making that promise is the fact that the Reclamationists themselves are politically so tiny that their counteroffer is almost insignificant. d6 of their nine "favorable" legislators will become "strongly favorable" legislators. If we are lucky, we get 0.1% of the legislature moving one step in our favor. It's kind of unclear whether it's even worth it.
At the same time, you are probably right, and I am reasonably hopeful that our Energy situation will be good enough that we can pull it off if we truly care to, at least by 2065.
I appreciate your willingness to support me, and it's probably for the best in the long run, so despite my misgivings I will add it.
EDIT:
Also, if Kane shows up to negotiate and the TCN goes through, there are only two real possibilities. Either (1) all our Plan goals get renegotiated and realistically "build Blue Zone inhibitors" gets replaced by "build whatever TCN component Kane's designed to do the same thing but in a less janky manner," or (2) we end up needing the inhibitors anyway just to hold back tiberium long enough to finish the TCN, which canonically took something like 15-20 years to build although we have a significantly more intact industrial base than canon GDI did.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Because your plan does Banking Reforms, it could instead put us farther away from fully completing Chicago instead of closer. We're going to go up to +32 population in low-quality housing next turn. We've rarely been above 30 points, and have always quickly gone back below that. But even if immigration were to suddenly cut in half next turn, (which I doubt, especially with the YZ Fortresses finishing this turn,) it's still vastly outpacing the Bureau of Arcologies. With our funds depleted and unable to activate all our Infrastructure dice, and the BZ Apartment Complexes only having two Phases left, it's very likely that we're going to end up stuck at 30 or more points of LQ housing for multiple turns in a row next year. So even when we're again able to afford a bunch of 20R dice in Infrastructure, we're going to be stuck working on Housing for multiple turns instead. (Especially if the Communal Housing Experiments fail to roll well enough to qualify as HQ housing, like they did last time. Then we'd be stuck with sinking dice into Arcologies.)
- Location
- ?????????
@Simon_Jester if I may. You could drop the admin assistance. 3 dice gives us 93% for completion and that does mean that barring some extreme bad luck it will come through and as it is the turn before a turn plan the dice into promises does go a lot further(as we can double dip) than a gurantee of completion on a already likely project.
Yeah, that's not gonna happen. Simon is married to his 'mustn't risk it' stance and feels obligated personally to do that.
Yeah, from a mechanical perspective the reclaimists political support is really minor. But as a double-dip (make the promise elsewhere, get politicians on-side now) it makes sense, and it will be nice to help grow the party during the next elections (every vote taken from the IF is a win).
I've switched to voting for your plan exclusively. Thanks for being willing to make the change.
----------------
I'll keep my vote for your plan regardless of whether you make the following changes:
If you are looking to free up dice for interdepartmental favors (FIFO, spin-off more resources during reallocation), the easiest options would be to either:
-drop the AA die from the Zone Troopers. If you really want to lock in their promise, move the Island class die to a different Zone Troopers factory or project. +20R, and I'd be willing to campaign for the island class as a promise during reallocation or Q1 in return.
or
-drop the banking reforms until at least Q2.
We've already completed one factory, and are a good way to the second (83% CoS). I don't think they'll be particularly upset if it doesn't get through, and those 20R and potential +PS are very, very shiny.
edit: clarified the extra die
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- Location
- ?????????
Simon has changed the plans based on people's input. He has argued in favour of his current position but I'm hoping this new bit of info changes the calculus so to speak.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It seems to me like most of this will either be a problem anyway in all plans, or not at all. For instance:
1) Neither plan changes the total number of refugees that are going to show up in the long run. If we only have +12 High Quality Housing reliably and quickly available to us because (as you say) there are only two phases of apartments left, we're screwed either way unless the total number of refugees is small enough for that to be enough. Arcology construction will be no more capable of meeting our need to accommodate, say, +40 population worth of refugees under Lightwhispers' plan than under mine.
2) I do not think there are necessarily only two phases of apartments left, unless you've heard something on Discord that I haven't. I think that Ithillid just doesn't always bother to stamp down more redundant phases of a project past the first few.
3) The lack of reserves does not prevent apartment or communal housing construction in the coming Four Year Plan, though it may slightly reduce the scope of such construction early on. We can still get caught up.
4) Under no reasonable scenario does Chicago construction itself somehow delay future Chicago construction. Housing not built now may have to be built later, but on a one-for-one exchange rate with Chicago Infrastructure dice. The real issue you present is that the banking reforms will cost us money we could have spent to build, say, one or two more phases of apartments alongside of everything else we might otherwise spend. Which loops back to "yes, I know, the banking reforms will cost money. I think they are important for the civilian economy's health nevertheless."
Yeah, that's the obvious suggestion and I'm not surprised someone made it. And if we were having this conversation sixty hours ago, near the beginning of the vote period, I'd be very strongly tempted to go for it. But at least one person has outspokenly said that the near-ironclad commitment to meeting existing Plan commitments is why they're voting for my plan in the first place, and there's probably a few others for which it's a major factor. And with the vote having run almost all the way to completion, major changes strike me as... shaky.
Ultimately, I see Plan commitments as something we should try really hard to have a 100% fulfillment rate on, even at considerable cost to ourselves, because our reputation for fulfilling those targets very reliably is valuable. Especially when it's not just us making a promise to a third party like "Gulati's faction" or "the Navy," but when the legislature directly point-blank ordered us to do it with no wiggle room... which is what happened with ASAT.
That's just a personal philosophy thing. I understand if other people don't see it that way.
Honestly, if we were having this conversation way back when, I very well might risk it.
But now I've got like 55 votes riding on this plan, and I'm hesitant to make changes to the plan that I have reason to think some of those voters would consider significant, because there really isn't time for me to say 'well, anyone who is still voting for me when the QM closes the vote had a chance to notice me making the change.'
Here's a list of ways I can reshuffle to get rid of the AA die and thus free up a die for Interdepartmental Favors...
1) Take a Free die off Infrastructure by
1a) Delaying fortress construction (probably a nonstarter)
1b) Taking a die off Chicago (undermines a core objective of my plan)
2) Take a Free die off Heavy Industry by
2a) Dropping work on the fusion plants (no thanks)
2b) Reducing work on Suzuka (it's popular)
2c) Reducing Advanced Alloys, raising net savings by +15 R. Seriously Considering.
3) Take a Free die off Agriculture by
3a) Reducing work on the granaries (one in four chance of missing major Plan goal, no thanks)
3b) Dropping Vertical Farms Phase 2 from 89% to 40% chance of completion (Milk and Honey rage incoming, no)
4) Reduce Military dice budget by
4a) Accepting 7% chance of missing ASAT target (tempting, but see above)
4b) Accepting ~20% chance of missing OSRCT target (even more no)
4c) Turning ZOCOM promise of Zone Armor into a coin toss (no thanks)
4d) Cutting Sparkle Shield funding (no thanks, need it for fusion, and it's my Talons budget)
Honestly the most likely thing to take the hit is Advanced Alloys, both because it's a project that doesn't have major outspoken in thread support in and of itself, and because it's a project that isn't a Plan commitment, and because it's a project we plausibly could scrape up a second die for some time in 2062Q1-Q2.
I may actually do that. I'm thinking about it.
As noted, I'm thinking of doing something entirely different and cutting funding for Advanced Alloys research. I don't know what people think about that and want to give them at least SOME chance to get feedbac.
Very no.
Part of the issue is that we don't just have the +PS promise to ZOCOM, but we're actually counting on them to make a fairly risky deployment maneuver in the expectation of that armor arriving on time. We need the armor; it's not just them.
As discussed above, it kinda does, though not in the way people might expect.
Advanced Alloys is most likely to take the axe, simply because I don't expect us to be doing much deployment of it right away in either case. Regardless of who wins. Like, maybe in 2062Q3, but not in 2062Q1 when it's competing with Personal Electric Vehicles.
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- Location
- USA
I have no strong attachment to alloys.
If you feel the need to change your plan up by moving a die off it, go for it. Won't affect my support.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The problem is the pause in Infrastructure dice in the next two turns. Whether we do Chicago Phase 4 now or later, by spending a turn without activating all our Infrastructure dice we will fall a turn behind on doing Infrastructure projects, Chicago included. And unlike Chicago, Housing is on a tight time limit.
1: Spending time with too much LQ Housing is going to cause Problems if we don't get ahead of it. Housing has always threatened to become a major problem, even back at the beginning of the quest when we had overcrowded refugee camps. We've only avoided these issues by continually building Housing throughout the Quest.
2: There are only two Phases left, for now. It may show up again later. I thought this was mentioned in the thread previously, but I may be mistaken.
3: Again, less Infrastructure dice activated, less Infrastructure projects that get done. And our cheap Housing project is running out, with Communal Housing maybe replacing it if we get lucky.
4: I think people may care more about good housing than they do about an incremental boost to the economy. Housing is a big part of people's quality of life, and for better or worse the civilian economy is really far away from building said housing themselves, banking or no banking.
This is a philosophy Ithillid himself has spoken against. If Ithillid says a perfect over-commitment to completing every plan goal is not important, than by extension neither the mechanics nor the characters nor the narrative thinks it's important, either. Your personal philosophy here is not one that fits with the quest.
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In the absence of anyone objecting, I have made the changes I mentioned above :
Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2) 5/195 3 dice 60R 97% goes to 2 dice 40R 54% in order to add "Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Deployment (Phase 1) 41/140 1 die 20R 56%"
and Modular Rapid Assembly System Prototypes 0/125 1 die 20R 22% changes to "Island Class Assault Ships 0/40 1 die 20R 100%"
So:
[X]Plan Save Moneys, with more SCIENCE!
Infrastructure 5 dice +32 60R
-[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6) 273/300 1 die 20R 100%
-[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 9) (Updated) 82/160 1 die 10R 70%
-[X] Communal Housing Experiments (New) 0/150 2 dice 20R 82%
-[X] Green Architecture Risk Assessment and Testing (New) 0/90 1 die 10R 63%
Heavy Industry 4 dice +29 75R
-[X] Advanced Alloys Development 0/120 1 die 15R 30%
-[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 9) 236/300 1 die 20R 81%
-[X] Suzuka Prototype Hover Chassis Factory 0/175 2 dice 40R 50%
Light and Chemical Industry 4 dice +24 80R
-[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) 251/380 2 dice 60R 79%
-[X] Civilian Drone Factories 292/380 1 die 10R 52%
-[X] Isolinear Peripherals Development (New) 0/160 1 die 10R
Agriculture 4 dice +24 4+1 Free die 50R
-[X] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 2) 65/240 2 dice 30R 40%
-[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 4) 134/200 2 dice 20R 100%
-[X] Free die for security review
Tiberium 7 dice +39 7+2 Free Die 190R
-[X] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2) 5/195 2 dice 40R 54%
-[X] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 1) 0/250 3 dice 75R 74%
-[X] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Deployment (Phase 1) 41/140 1 die 20R 56%
-[X] Visceroid Research Programs 0/120 2 dice 30R 99%
-[X] Venusian Tiberium Studies 95/120 1 die 25R 100%
Orbital 6 dice +26 6+2 Free Dice + Erewhon 170R
-[X] Station Bay 0/400 3 dice + Erewhon 80R 6%
-[X] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11) 32/85 1 die 10R 89%
-[X] Leopard II Factory 0/350 4 dice 80R 32%
Services 5 dice +27 115R
-[X] Human Genetic Engineering Programs 77/120 1 die 25R 100%
-[X] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 121/300 2 dice 50R 42%
-[X] Ocular Implant Development 83/120 1 die 20R 100%
-[X] Specialist Isolinear Programming Development (New) 0/120 1 die 20R 28%
Military 8 dice +26 8+2 Free Dice 210R
-[X] ASAT Defense System (Phase 4) 36/220 3 dice 60R 93%
-[X] Zrbite Sonic Weapons Development 0/60 1 die 20R 87%
-[X] OSRCT Station (Phase 4) 319/395 2 dice 40R 100%
-[X] Ground Forces Zone Armor (London) 121/180 2 dice 40R 100%
-[X] Island Class Assault Ships 0/40 1 die 20R 100%
-[X] Sparkle Shield Module 0/120 1 die 30R 27%
Bureaucracy 4 dice +24
-[X] Security Reviews (Agriculture) DC50 0/50 2 dice 100%
-[X] Interdepartmental Favors
--[X] Steel Talons: Deploy Medium Tactical Plasma Weapons: +5 Political Support
--[X] Air Force: Deploy Orca Wingman Drones before the end of next plan: +5 Political Support
--[X] Department of Education: Deploy Services AEVA : +5 political Support
--[X] Erewhon: Complete North Boston Phase 5: +5 Political Support
-[X] Make Political Promises (Updated)
--[X] FMP: Complete Electric Vehicle Factory in Next Plan: +1d6 steps.
--[X] Market Socialist: Complete Electric Vehicle Factory in next Plan: +2d6 steps.
--[X] Homeland Party: Complete 2+ BZ Inhibitors by end of next Plan: +3d6 steps.
--[X] Reclamation Party: Complete 3+ BZ Inhibitors by end of next Plan: +1d6 steps.
--[X] Biodiversity Party: Compete Dairy Ranching Domes phase 2 by end of next plan: 1d10 steps.
7/7 Free dice
950/1155R + 110 Reserve
[X]Plan Save Moneys, with more SCIENCE!, original edition
Infrastructure 5 dice +32 60R
-[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6) 273/300 1 die 20R 100%
-[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 9) (Updated) 82/160 1 die 10R 70%
-[X] Communal Housing Experiments (New) 0/150 2 dice 20R 82%
-[X] Green Architecture Risk Assessment and Testing (New) 0/90 1 die 10R 63%
Heavy Industry 4 dice +29 75R
-[X] Advanced Alloys Development 0/120 1 die 15R 30%
-[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 9) 236/300 1 die 20R 81%
-[X] Suzuka Prototype Hover Chassis Factory 0/175 2 dice 40R 50%
Light and Chemical Industry 4 dice +24 80R
-[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) 251/380 2 dice 60R 79%
-[X] Civilian Drone Factories 292/380 1 die 10R 52%
-[X] Isolinear Peripherals Development (New) 0/160 1 die 10R
Agriculture 4 dice +24 4+1 Free die 50R
-[X] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 2) 65/240 2 dice 30R 40%
-[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 4) 134/200 2 dice 20R 100%
-[X] Free die for security review
Tiberium 7 dice +39 7+2 Free Die 190R
-[X] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2) 5/195 3 dice 60R 97%
-[X] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 1) 0/250 3 dice 75R 74%
-[X] Visceroid Research Programs 0/120 2 dice 30R 99%
-[X] Venusian Tiberium Studies 95/120 1 die 25R 100%
Orbital 6 dice +26 6+2 Free Dice 160R
-[X] Station Bay 0/400 4 dice 80R 9%
-[X] Leopard II Factory 0/350 4 dice 80R 32%
Services 5 dice +27 115R
-[X] Human Genetic Engineering Programs 77/120 1 die 25R 100%
-[X] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 121/300 2 dice 50R 42%
-[X] Ocular Implant Development 83/120 1 die 20R 100%
-[X] Specialist Isolinear Programming Development (New) 0/120 1 die 20R 28%
Military 8 dice +26 8+2 Free Dice +Erewhon 210R
-[X] ASAT Defense System (Phase 4) 36/220 3 dice 60R 93%
-[X] Zrbite Sonic Weapons Development 0/60 1 die 20R 87%
-[X] OSRCT Station (Phase 4) 319/395 1 die + Erewhon 40R 96%
-[X] Ground Forces Zone Armor (London) 121/180 2 dice 40R 100%
-[X] Modular Rapid Assembly System Prototypes 0/125 1 die 20R 22%
-[X] Sparkle Shield Module 0/120 1 die 30R 27%
-[X] Free die for security review
Bureaucracy 4 dice +24
-[X] Security Reviews (Agriculture) DC50 0/50 2 dice 100%
-[X] Security Reviews (Military) DC50 0/50 2 dice 100%
7/7 Free dice
940/1155R + 110 Reserve
Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2) 5/195 3 dice 60R 97% goes to 2 dice 40R 54% in order to add "Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Deployment (Phase 1) 41/140 1 die 20R 56%"
and Modular Rapid Assembly System Prototypes 0/125 1 die 20R 22% changes to "Island Class Assault Ships 0/40 1 die 20R 100%"
So:
[X]Plan Save Moneys, with more SCIENCE!
Infrastructure 5 dice +32 60R
-[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6) 273/300 1 die 20R 100%
-[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 9) (Updated) 82/160 1 die 10R 70%
-[X] Communal Housing Experiments (New) 0/150 2 dice 20R 82%
-[X] Green Architecture Risk Assessment and Testing (New) 0/90 1 die 10R 63%
Heavy Industry 4 dice +29 75R
-[X] Advanced Alloys Development 0/120 1 die 15R 30%
-[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 9) 236/300 1 die 20R 81%
-[X] Suzuka Prototype Hover Chassis Factory 0/175 2 dice 40R 50%
Light and Chemical Industry 4 dice +24 80R
-[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) 251/380 2 dice 60R 79%
-[X] Civilian Drone Factories 292/380 1 die 10R 52%
-[X] Isolinear Peripherals Development (New) 0/160 1 die 10R
Agriculture 4 dice +24 4+1 Free die 50R
-[X] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 2) 65/240 2 dice 30R 40%
-[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 4) 134/200 2 dice 20R 100%
-[X] Free die for security review
Tiberium 7 dice +39 7+2 Free Die 190R
-[X] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2) 5/195 2 dice 40R 54%
-[X] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 1) 0/250 3 dice 75R 74%
-[X] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Deployment (Phase 1) 41/140 1 die 20R 56%
-[X] Visceroid Research Programs 0/120 2 dice 30R 99%
-[X] Venusian Tiberium Studies 95/120 1 die 25R 100%
Orbital 6 dice +26 6+2 Free Dice + Erewhon 170R
-[X] Station Bay 0/400 3 dice + Erewhon 80R 6%
-[X] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 11) 32/85 1 die 10R 89%
-[X] Leopard II Factory 0/350 4 dice 80R 32%
Services 5 dice +27 115R
-[X] Human Genetic Engineering Programs 77/120 1 die 25R 100%
-[X] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 121/300 2 dice 50R 42%
-[X] Ocular Implant Development 83/120 1 die 20R 100%
-[X] Specialist Isolinear Programming Development (New) 0/120 1 die 20R 28%
Military 8 dice +26 8+2 Free Dice 210R
-[X] ASAT Defense System (Phase 4) 36/220 3 dice 60R 93%
-[X] Zrbite Sonic Weapons Development 0/60 1 die 20R 87%
-[X] OSRCT Station (Phase 4) 319/395 2 dice 40R 100%
-[X] Ground Forces Zone Armor (London) 121/180 2 dice 40R 100%
-[X] Island Class Assault Ships 0/40 1 die 20R 100%
-[X] Sparkle Shield Module 0/120 1 die 30R 27%
Bureaucracy 4 dice +24
-[X] Security Reviews (Agriculture) DC50 0/50 2 dice 100%
-[X] Interdepartmental Favors
--[X] Steel Talons: Deploy Medium Tactical Plasma Weapons: +5 Political Support
--[X] Air Force: Deploy Orca Wingman Drones before the end of next plan: +5 Political Support
--[X] Department of Education: Deploy Services AEVA : +5 political Support
--[X] Erewhon: Complete North Boston Phase 5: +5 Political Support
-[X] Make Political Promises (Updated)
--[X] FMP: Complete Electric Vehicle Factory in Next Plan: +1d6 steps.
--[X] Market Socialist: Complete Electric Vehicle Factory in next Plan: +2d6 steps.
--[X] Homeland Party: Complete 2+ BZ Inhibitors by end of next Plan: +3d6 steps.
--[X] Reclamation Party: Complete 3+ BZ Inhibitors by end of next Plan: +1d6 steps.
--[X] Biodiversity Party: Compete Dairy Ranching Domes phase 2 by end of next plan: 1d10 steps.
7/7 Free dice
950/1155R + 110 Reserve
[X]Plan Save Moneys, with more SCIENCE!, original edition
Infrastructure 5 dice +32 60R
-[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6) 273/300 1 die 20R 100%
-[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 9) (Updated) 82/160 1 die 10R 70%
-[X] Communal Housing Experiments (New) 0/150 2 dice 20R 82%
-[X] Green Architecture Risk Assessment and Testing (New) 0/90 1 die 10R 63%
Heavy Industry 4 dice +29 75R
-[X] Advanced Alloys Development 0/120 1 die 15R 30%
-[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 9) 236/300 1 die 20R 81%
-[X] Suzuka Prototype Hover Chassis Factory 0/175 2 dice 40R 50%
Light and Chemical Industry 4 dice +24 80R
-[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) 251/380 2 dice 60R 79%
-[X] Civilian Drone Factories 292/380 1 die 10R 52%
-[X] Isolinear Peripherals Development (New) 0/160 1 die 10R
Agriculture 4 dice +24 4+1 Free die 50R
-[X] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 2) 65/240 2 dice 30R 40%
-[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 4) 134/200 2 dice 20R 100%
-[X] Free die for security review
Tiberium 7 dice +39 7+2 Free Die 190R
-[X] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 2) 5/195 3 dice 60R 97%
-[X] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 1) 0/250 3 dice 75R 74%
-[X] Visceroid Research Programs 0/120 2 dice 30R 99%
-[X] Venusian Tiberium Studies 95/120 1 die 25R 100%
Orbital 6 dice +26 6+2 Free Dice 160R
-[X] Station Bay 0/400 4 dice 80R 9%
-[X] Leopard II Factory 0/350 4 dice 80R 32%
Services 5 dice +27 115R
-[X] Human Genetic Engineering Programs 77/120 1 die 25R 100%
-[X] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 121/300 2 dice 50R 42%
-[X] Ocular Implant Development 83/120 1 die 20R 100%
-[X] Specialist Isolinear Programming Development (New) 0/120 1 die 20R 28%
Military 8 dice +26 8+2 Free Dice +Erewhon 210R
-[X] ASAT Defense System (Phase 4) 36/220 3 dice 60R 93%
-[X] Zrbite Sonic Weapons Development 0/60 1 die 20R 87%
-[X] OSRCT Station (Phase 4) 319/395 1 die + Erewhon 40R 96%
-[X] Ground Forces Zone Armor (London) 121/180 2 dice 40R 100%
-[X] Modular Rapid Assembly System Prototypes 0/125 1 die 20R 22%
-[X] Sparkle Shield Module 0/120 1 die 30R 27%
-[X] Free die for security review
Bureaucracy 4 dice +24
-[X] Security Reviews (Agriculture) DC50 0/50 2 dice 100%
-[X] Security Reviews (Military) DC50 0/50 2 dice 100%
7/7 Free dice
940/1155R + 110 Reserve
And even if there are only 2 phases of the current BZ Apartments project left, that doesn't mean we won't get something else to provide good-quality BZ Housing - indeed, virtually every time a project like that comes to an end, something else arises to fill the need it was filling.
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[X]Plan Save Moneys, with more SCIENCE!
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
@Lightwhispers The vote tally is splitting the old version of your Plan vote with your new one, even though they both have the same Plan name. (And it's not supposed to do that, ugh.) I suggest going back to the earlier post(s) with your full Plan and making the changes back there, since that's where the vote tally is grabbing the old version from. Hopefully, that'll fix the tally. Or it'll make things worse, IDK. The tally can be really fiddly sometimes.
I'll just say that I'm not a fan of altering plans in the last 6 hours of a 48 hour voting period. Or at the very least, leading plans. I'm going to work in ~2 hours, and it'll be 4-6 hours until I'm back. It's entirely possible I might miss a plan change announcement before I go, and the first I'll know of it is after voting is over and I have no chance to change vote if I disagree with the change. There's probably voters that are at work already and won't have a chance to change their vote until it's too late if they dislike the change.
--
I like that we, the Treasury, built a reputation on keeping promises over the last decade, even if it gets some egg on our face. If the rest of the gov't doesn't feel that we failed to meet a promise doesn't really matter. "They try their best to complete promises" isn't terrible, but it's not "A promise from the Treasury is something you can take to the bank as a sure thing." Narratively there's not much/any difference (at least, currently - Kane might be freer in negotiations with the latter reputation than he would with the former), and mechanically it doesn't matter because PS, but....
Yes, failure is possible and it won't end/ruin the quest, but that's no reason to not aim for complete success on our promises whenever possible.
--
I like that we, the Treasury, built a reputation on keeping promises over the last decade, even if it gets some egg on our face. If the rest of the gov't doesn't feel that we failed to meet a promise doesn't really matter. "They try their best to complete promises" isn't terrible, but it's not "A promise from the Treasury is something you can take to the bank as a sure thing." Narratively there's not much/any difference (at least, currently - Kane might be freer in negotiations with the latter reputation than he would with the former), and mechanically it doesn't matter because PS, but....
Yes, failure is possible and it won't end/ruin the quest, but that's no reason to not aim for complete success on our promises whenever possible.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I feel the same way, so while I am about to change my plan, it will NOT be in a way that in any way impedes us completing our actual promises.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X]Lightwhispers
I might be wrong about this but isn't expanding Chicago's processing capability practically required for the Super Glacier Mines some are talking about? The plan was to put them on the long stretch of Red Zone that has almost zero Nod presence due to severing the yellow zone in North America. And then shipping all that mined Tiberium to Chicago for processing.
The only other stretch of controlled Red Zone is in Australia. And I think Australia lacks enough local processing capability to support a SGM complex. So that means shipping the surplus out by cargo ship. Right under Bintang's nose. There were some constructed near Adelaide last turn but will that be enough to support an Australian Super Glacier Mine?
And back to Chicago. How much of Chicago's processing capacity is used right now by local mining?
Basically the question is will we have enough local processing for Super Glacier Mines. While we have enough distributed processing capacity across the entire GDI I'm curious if there is enough free local processing capacity near the planned SGM sites.
Because when it comes to refuges and low quality housing (with Chicago blocking another wave of apartments). Those refuges are coming from worse living conditions. They aren't being housed in refuge camps which were a problem at the start of the quest (and were a problem still in canon timeline). Unless I'm missing something we moved everyone who was in low quality housing before the Regency War. So anyone there moved there during the Regency War from Nod territory or decided not to move as housing became available. I think with the trickle from the Bureau of Arcologies (which moves those longest staying low quality housing residents) and us most likely restarting apartments as soon as possible. And even with the current surge we won't run out of low quality housing for 5 turns.
The only other stretch of controlled Red Zone is in Australia. And I think Australia lacks enough local processing capability to support a SGM complex. So that means shipping the surplus out by cargo ship. Right under Bintang's nose. There were some constructed near Adelaide last turn but will that be enough to support an Australian Super Glacier Mine?
And back to Chicago. How much of Chicago's processing capacity is used right now by local mining?
Basically the question is will we have enough local processing for Super Glacier Mines. While we have enough distributed processing capacity across the entire GDI I'm curious if there is enough free local processing capacity near the planned SGM sites.
Because when it comes to refuges and low quality housing (with Chicago blocking another wave of apartments). Those refuges are coming from worse living conditions. They aren't being housed in refuge camps which were a problem at the start of the quest (and were a problem still in canon timeline). Unless I'm missing something we moved everyone who was in low quality housing before the Regency War. So anyone there moved there during the Regency War from Nod territory or decided not to move as housing became available. I think with the trickle from the Bureau of Arcologies (which moves those longest staying low quality housing residents) and us most likely restarting apartments as soon as possible. And even with the current surge we won't run out of low quality housing for 5 turns.
Fixed, I think.
Yeah, I am not entirely a fan either, which is why I asked for input, and am making changes that don't change the core promises of the plan, as I see them. I would have changed it sooner, but work is crazy today.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Ditto. I don't think I promised anyone Advanced Alloys in particular. I wanted it, but that's something I want, not something the thread promised or that GDI's legislature demanded.
[waggles hand]
Lots of factors for me. I've mentioned them all before. It's a rollover project. It's a rollover project we'll predictably want to continue soon. It's something we were directly ordered by Parliament to do, as opposed to something we chose to offer them or made a deal with the Space Force for. It's something that people have expressed that they are voting for my plan solely because of, without time to really consult them.
With all those factors in play... Imma do something else, to which none of those considerations apply. Watch this space.
I don't expect the fall-behind to be that drastic. Precisely because it's one of our top priority areas, in any actual plan I submit, I'm really going to be trying to keep out in front of the Housing issue so far as practical. Working with what I saw as a minimum practical Infrastructure dice budget, I was putting... I seem to recall it being 3/5 dice on Infrastructure. It could easily be more. Any additional RpT freed up by casting off line-items from the budget is very likely to go straight to GDI's
Of course, to do that, we need more Political Support, on which note...
Here is the "Interdepartmental Favors" version of the plan. I've been convinced to do it by a combination of posters' arguments.
Basically, I give up the second Advanced Alloys die (which I've always been kinda waffling on), shift that Free die to Military, replace the AA die on the London Zone Armor, then do Interdepartmental Favors for +20 Political Support. Yes, this involves committing to the Services AEVA, which I think we totally can do at some point in the coming Plan along with (I really hope) the Orbital and Heavy Industry, and maybe Military, AEVAs. After all, we already promised Erewhon a +32 Capital Goods megaproject, right? Right?
Both versions of Attempting To Have Banks And _________ now end the Plan with 117 PS going into reapportionment, which positions us to hopefully shake loose some of our line items and get a better starting budget for 2062Q1 any which way.
Banks and Chicago now has a 145 R discretionary budget (enough that I think I can swing a plan that activates almost all or even all dice in Q1, especially with line item castoffs). Banks and Walls of Guns now has a 175 R discretionary budget, which makes it even more likely.
MONEY BUDGET
1155 RpT income + 110(?) R reserves
1120/1265
145 R surplus budget at plan end
(but positioned to really surge income in 2062Q1, while ensuring fast civilian-sector growth!)
PESSIMISTIC CAPITAL GOODS BUDGET
+17 (?) baseline
+17 +2 (DHIA) -2 (claws) -1 (London) = +16
(I am not counting the +6 from Chicago or the +2 from Bergen; those 'only' have ~75% chances each of completing)
FOOD BUDGET
+20 (baseline from projects) -5 (refugees, pessimistic) = +15 (?) baseline, pessimistic
Becomes +12 with storehouses, 90% chance of +16 if vertical farms finish
QUITE PESSIMISTIC ENERGY BUDGET
+8 baseline (huh, that was surprisingly spot-on)
+8 (baseline) +10 (tiberium Phase 1) -4 (Chicago) -2 (Suzuka) -2 (drones) -2 (vertical farms) -1 (hospitals) -2 (London)
+5 Energy
(more likely +21 Energy from fusion, possibly more pluses from Bergen or Tiberium Power Phase 2 but not counting on it)
GETTING YELLED AT BUDGET
117 - 10 (Visceroids) -5 (genetic engineering) -5 (tiberium power) +20 (favors) = 117
15% chance of less if Phase 2 tiberium power finishes,
1155 RpT income + 110(?) R reserves
1120/1265
145 R surplus budget at plan end
(but positioned to really surge income in 2062Q1, while ensuring fast civilian-sector growth!)
PESSIMISTIC CAPITAL GOODS BUDGET
+17 (?) baseline
+17 +2 (DHIA) -2 (claws) -1 (London) = +16
(I am not counting the +6 from Chicago or the +2 from Bergen; those 'only' have ~75% chances each of completing)
FOOD BUDGET
+20 (baseline from projects) -5 (refugees, pessimistic) = +15 (?) baseline, pessimistic
Becomes +12 with storehouses, 90% chance of +16 if vertical farms finish
QUITE PESSIMISTIC ENERGY BUDGET
+8 baseline (huh, that was surprisingly spot-on)
+8 (baseline) +10 (tiberium Phase 1) -4 (Chicago) -2 (Suzuka) -2 (drones) -2 (vertical farms) -1 (hospitals) -2 (London)
+5 Energy
(more likely +21 Energy from fusion, possibly more pluses from Bergen or Tiberium Power Phase 2 but not counting on it)
GETTING YELLED AT BUDGET
117 - 10 (Visceroids) -5 (genetic engineering) -5 (tiberium power) +20 (favors) = 117
15% chance of less if Phase 2 tiberium power finishes,
End Plan with 145 R and 117 PS in piggy bank
7/7 Free dice
[X] Plan Attempting To Have Banks In Chicago
-[X] Infrastructure (5 dice + 2 Free dice, +32 bonus, 140 R)
--[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns Phase 6 273/300 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[X] Chicago Planned City (Phase 4) 3/550 (6 dice + HI die, 120 R) (71% chance)
-[X] Heavy Industry (4 dice + 1 Free dice, +29 bonus, 95 R)
--[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 9) 236/300 (1 die, 20 R) (81% chance)
--[X] Advanced Alloys Development 0/120 (1 die, 15 R) (30% chance)
--[X] Suzuka Prototype Hover Chassis Factory 0/175 (2 dice, 40 R) (50% chance)
--[X] Chicago Planned City Phase 4 (1 die, 20 R) (see above)
-[X] Light Industry (4 dice, +24 bonus, 80 R)
--[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) 251/380 (2 dice, 60 R) (79% chance)
--[X] Civilian Drone Factories 292/380 (1 die, 10 R) (52% chance)
--[X] Artificial Wood Development 0/60 (1 die, 10 R) (85% chance)
-[X] Agriculture (4 dice + 1 Free die, +24 bonus, 65 R)
--[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction Phase 4 134/200 (2 dice, 20 R) (99.99% chance of Phase 4)
--[X] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 2) 65/240 (3 dice, 45R) (89% chance, less if progress decay)
-[X] Tiberium (7 dice + EREWHON!!!, +39 bonus, 170 R)
--[X] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 1) 0/250 (3 dice, 75 R) (74% chance)
--[X] Liquid Tiberium Power Cells (Phase 1+2) 41/280 (2 dice, 40 R) (99% Phase 1, 15% Phase 2) (-5/?? PS from Phase 1/2)
--[X] Visceroid Research Programs 0/120 (2 dice, 30 R) (99% chance) (-10 PS)
--[X] Venusian Tiberium Studies 95/120 (E die, 25 R) (91% chance)
--[X] Tiberium Harvesting Claw Deployment 363/380 (autocompletes without dice)
-[X] Orbital (6 dice, +26 bonus, 120 R)
--[X] Station Bay 0/400 (3 dice, 60 R) (3/5 median)
--[X] Leopard II Factory 0/350 (3 dice, 60 R) (2% chance)
-[X] Services (5 dice, +27 bonus, 110 R)
--[X] Human Genetic Engineering Programs 77/120 (1 die, 25 R) (100% chance) (-5 PS)
--[X] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 121/300 (2 dice, 50 R) (42% chance)
--[X] Ocular Implant Development 83/120 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[X] Hallucinogen Research 0/60 (1 die, 15 R) (88% chance)
-[X] Military (8 dice + 3 Free dice, +26 bonus, 240 R)
--[X] Ground Forces Zone Armor (London) 121/180 (2 dice, 40 R) (100% chance)
--[X] Island Class Assault Ship Development 0/40 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[X] Sparkle Shield Module 0/120 (2 dice, 60 R) (91% chance)
--[X] OSRCT Stations (Phase 4) 319/395 (2 dice, 40 R) (100% with Seo bonus)
--[X] ASAT Defense System (Phase 4) 36/220 (4 dice, 80 R) (99.9% with Seo bonus)
---[X] Deliberate overkill onto Phase 5, because this is foreseeably needed in the next Plan
-[X] Bureaucracy (3/4 dice, 100 R)
--[X] Erewhon: I Hear You Like Space and Tiberium Research So Here Is Space Tiberium Research
--[X] Banking Reforms (-100 R)
--[X] Interdepartmental Favors
---[X] Steel Talons: Deploy Medium Tactical Plasma Weapons: +5 Political Support
---[X] Air Force: Deploy Orca Wingman Drones before the end of next plan: +5 Political Support
---[X] Department of Education: Deploy Services AEVA : +5 political Support
---[X] Erewhon: Complete North Boston Phase 5: +5 Political Support
--[X] Make Political Promises (Updated)
---[X] FMP: Complete Electric Vehicle Factory in Next Plan: +1d6 steps.
---[X] Market Socialist: Complete Electric Vehicle Factory in next Plan: +2d6 steps.
---[X] Homeland Party: Complete 2+ BZ Inhibitors by end of next Plan: +3d6 steps.
---[X] Reclamation Party: Complete 3+ BZ Inhibitors by end of next Plan: +1d6 steps.
---[X] Biodiversity Party: Compete Dairy Ranching Domes phase 2 by end of next plan: 1d10 steps.
---[] Initiative First: Ahahaha Go Play Hopscotch In A Yellow Zone Minefield:
This is (still) a more military-heavy version of the Plan that does more for various branches of the armed forces... but drops Chicago, and a few other things, somewhat.
MONEY BUDGET
1155 RpT income + 110(?) R reserves
1090/1265
175 R surplus budget at plan end
(but positioned to really surge income in 2062Q1, while ensuring fast civilian-sector growth!)
PESSIMISTIC CAPITAL GOODS BUDGET
+17 (?) baseline
+17 +2 (DHIA) -2 (claws) -1 (London) = +16
(I am not counting or the +2 from Bergen, with its ~75% chances each of completing)
FOOD BUDGET
+20 (baseline from projects) -5 (refugees, pessimistic) = +15 (?) baseline, pessimistic
Becomes +12 with storehouses, 90% chance of +16 if vertical farms finish
QUITE PESSIMISTIC ENERGY BUDGET
+8 baseline (huh, that was surprisingly spot-on)
+8 (baseline) +10 (tiberium Phase 1) -2 (Suzuka) -2 (drones) -2 (vertical farms) -1 (hospitals) -2 (London) -2 (metros)
+7 Energy
(more likely +23 Energy from fusion, possibly more pluses from Bergen or Tiberium Power Phase 2 but not counting on it)
GETTING YELLED AT BUDGET
117 - 10 (Visceroids) -5 (genetic engineering) -5 (tiberium power) + 20 (favors) = 117 PS
15% chance of less if Phase 2 tiberium power finishes,
1155 RpT income + 110(?) R reserves
1090/1265
175 R surplus budget at plan end
(but positioned to really surge income in 2062Q1, while ensuring fast civilian-sector growth!)
PESSIMISTIC CAPITAL GOODS BUDGET
+17 (?) baseline
+17 +2 (DHIA) -2 (claws) -1 (London) = +16
(I am not counting or the +2 from Bergen, with its ~75% chances each of completing)
FOOD BUDGET
+20 (baseline from projects) -5 (refugees, pessimistic) = +15 (?) baseline, pessimistic
Becomes +12 with storehouses, 90% chance of +16 if vertical farms finish
QUITE PESSIMISTIC ENERGY BUDGET
+8 baseline (huh, that was surprisingly spot-on)
+8 (baseline) +10 (tiberium Phase 1) -2 (Suzuka) -2 (drones) -2 (vertical farms) -1 (hospitals) -2 (London) -2 (metros)
+7 Energy
(more likely +23 Energy from fusion, possibly more pluses from Bergen or Tiberium Power Phase 2 but not counting on it)
GETTING YELLED AT BUDGET
117 - 10 (Visceroids) -5 (genetic engineering) -5 (tiberium power) + 20 (favors) = 117 PS
15% chance of less if Phase 2 tiberium power finishes,
End Plan with 175 R and 117 PS in piggy bank
7/7 Free dice
[X] Plan Attempting To Have Banks And Walls Of Guns
-[X] Infrastructure (5 dice, +32 bonus, 70 R)
--[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns Phase 6 273/300 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[X] Urban Metros (Phase 4) 0/150 (2 dice, 30 R) (76% chance)
--[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 9+10) 82/320 (2 dice, 20 R) (Phase 9, 9% chance Phase 10)
-[X] Heavy Industry (4 dice, +29 bonus, 75 R)
--[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 9) 236/300 (1 die, 20 R) (81% chance)
--[X] Advanced Alloys Development 0/120 (1 die, 15 R) (30% chance)
--[X] Suzuka Prototype Hover Chassis Factory 0/175 (2 dice, 40 R) (50% chance)
-[X] Light Industry (4 dice, +24 bonus, 80 R)
--[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) 251/380 (2 dice, 60 R) (79% chance)
--[X] Civilian Drone Factories 292/380 (1 die, 10 R) (52% chance)
--[X] Artificial Wood Development 0/60 (1 die, 10 R) (85% chance)
-[X] Agriculture (4 dice + 1 Free die, +24 bonus, 65 R)
--[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction Phase 4 134/200 (2 dice, 20 R) (99.99% chance of Phase 4)
--[X] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 2) 65/240 (3 dice, 45R) (89% chance, less if progress decay)
-[X] Tiberium (7 dice + EREWHON!!!, +39 bonus, 170 R)
--[X] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 1) 0/250 (3 dice, 75 R) (74% chance)
--[X] Liquid Tiberium Power Cells (Phase 1+2) 41/280 (2 dice, 40 R) (99% Phase 1, 15% Phase 2) (-5/?? PS from Phase 1/2)
--[X] Visceroid Research Programs 0/120 (2 dice, 30 R) (99% chance) (-10 PS)
--[X] Venusian Tiberium Studies 95/120 (E die, 25 R) (91% chance)
--[X] Tiberium Harvesting Claw Deployment 363/380 (autocompletes without dice)
-[X] Orbital (6 dice, +26 bonus, 120 R)
--[X] Station Bay 0/400 (3 dice, 60 R) (3/5 median)
--[X] Leopard II Factory 0/350 (3 dice, 60 R) (2% chance)
-[X] Services (5 dice, +27 bonus, 110 R)
--[X] Human Genetic Engineering Programs 77/120 (1 die, 25 R) (100% chance) (-5 PS)
--[X] Regional Hospital Expansions (Phase 1) 121/300 (2 dice, 50 R) (42% chance)
--[X] Ocular Implant Development 83/120 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[X] Hallucinogen Research 0/60 (1 die, 15 R) (88% chance)
-[X] Military (8 dice + 5 Free dice + AA die, +26 bonus, 300 R) (old)
--[X] Ground Forces Zone Armor (London) 121/180 (1+AA dice, 40 R) (98.6% chance)
--[X] Ground Forces Zone Armor (Santiago) 0/180 (1 die, 20 R) (1/2.25 median)
--[X] Island Class Assault Ship Development 0/40 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[X] Advanced ECCM Development 0/40 (1 die, 20 R) (100% chance)
--[X] Sparkle Shield Module 0/120 (2 dice, 60 R) (91% chance)
--[X] Modular Rapid Assembly System Prototypes 0/125 (1 die, 20 R) (22% chance)
--[X] OSRCT Stations (Phase 4) 319/395 (2 dice, 40 R) (100% with Seo bonus)
--[X] ASAT Defense System (Phase 4) 36/220 (4 dice, 80 R) (99.9% with Seo bonus)
---[X] Deliberate overkill onto Phase 5, because this is foreseeably needed in the next Plan
-[X] Bureaucracy (4 dice, 100 R)
--[X] Erewhon: I Hear You Like Space and Tiberium Research So Here Is Space Tiberium Research
--[X] Administrative Assistance: Awoo Zone Troopers Of London
--[X] Banking Reforms (-100 R)
--[X] Make Political Promises (Updated)
---[X] FMP: Complete Electric Vehicle Factory in Next Plan: +1d6 steps.
---[X] Market Socialist: Complete Electric Vehicle Factory in next Plan: +2d6 steps.
---[X] Homeland Party: Complete 2+ BZ Inhibitors by end of next plan: +3d6 Steps.
---[X] Reclamation Party: Complete 3+ BZ Inhibitors by end of next Plan: +1d6 steps.
---[X] Biodiversity Party: Compete Dairy Ranching Domes phase 2 by end of next plan: 1d10 steps.
---[] Initiative First: Ahahaha Go Play Hopscotch In A Yellow Zone Minefield
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