Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
BoSPaladin
The Paladin
I'm putting exactly as much good faith into it as simon is.
The space stuff? Having industry in orbit will help complete enterprise.
Crp specifically as a goal on the other hand? Dirt cheap. If there's no easy way to complete stored food goals without it and parliament insist there must be some form of stored food we call bundle out the stored food easily. They might not enjoy it but they'll have it.
You know what I find not okay? Simon quoting me to change my plan specifically. And giving a numbered list of complaints. That starts out with number 1 him outright lying! Saying my plan does nothing for high quality housing!
Frankly it reads as an attempt to 'win the argument' by dumping a bunch of accusations on me and trying to waste my time by answering them.
I'm not interested in an argument or a debate or answering someone 'JAQ'ing at me.
I made a vote and quite honestly if I could have done it anonymously to avoid exactly this sort of thing I would have.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I'm approval voting for Plan Steak and Tendrils because it's the only plan I can stomach voting for since I consider all leading plans evil for not building more hospitals in Services. If we get told this turn result that refugees have to be airlifted/transported/travel to other cities to get to a hospital I will say I told you so to the lot of you.
- Location
- USA
Yikes...
Tensions seem high today.
Tensions seem high today.
So much this.
I am frankly astonished about the cavalier attitude of some posters regarding the plan goals.
Let's say your boss at work gave you a certain job. It is your task to accomplish in four week's time.
When these four weeks end and your boss asks for the result, you are telling him that you did something completely different, but what you did is clearly more important.
What will your boss do?
A: praise you and allow you more freedom
or
B: fire you
...overwhelming majority of bosses I had would go with option B.
Your plan adds exactly 1 high quality housing per turn.
Fortress towns housing is not high quality housing.
And Simon comments on pretty much all posted plans, not just yours. Often people agree with him and change their plans somewhat - if they do not than they do not, I have not seen Simon harassing them.
...Dmol, we are at +10 health.
While more health is always good, we are really not in a dire need of more health at the moment.
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- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
Given that we have very little else to get done in Services, I'd be surprised if we didn't complete one stage of the new project this year. It is just that completing those research projects has priority for this turn.
Actually we should have enough dice to finish both stages of extra hospitals this year.
@Ithillid Would it be possible to get something more qualitative on the Health indicator? I don't have any context for what +20 means over +10. And I feel like this has come up before.
As for CRP, any calls about whether we need it or not are a bit premature. We can see that Strategic Food Stockpile Construction goes to at least Phase 8, which is far more than we need. I'm puzzled that it even reappeared in discussion.
Actually we should have enough dice to finish both stages of extra hospitals this year.
@Ithillid Would it be possible to get something more qualitative on the Health indicator? I don't have any context for what +20 means over +10. And I feel like this has come up before.
As for CRP, any calls about whether we need it or not are a bit premature. We can see that Strategic Food Stockpile Construction goes to at least Phase 8, which is far more than we need. I'm puzzled that it even reappeared in discussion.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Narratively we need this specific action:
to build hospitals in the new cities we built last turn specifically. As in there are no Hospitals in them right now. It's not simply about the Health number, in this case it is more about the narrative and the logistics number we may lose to people commuting to hospitals in other towns.
Ok, for me it reads like "nice to have" and not "we need it".
This said, I may be mistaken, and if Ithillid clarifies it I would be thankful.
I fully expect us to build the hospitals till the end of the year anyway, though.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
See, the thing is, I did straight-up miss that the Bureau of Arcologies was going to provide +1 good Housing per turn and so technically your plan has good housing.
But you've focused in on that to the exclusion of almost everything else I said, and I'm not sure why. Because in all honesty, I don't think "no, I totally have +1 Housing and now arcologies are gonna be about 8% cheaper" is a good answer to "we have 10 units of refugees coming in per turn, and your plan isn't focused on building good housing for them, or housing them efficiently."
It's like, you catch me in a "lie" and that means you don't have to think or talk about anything else I said. Which, you know, I wouldn't mind... if you weren't just a little while ago talking about how the thread doesn't or can't plan. That's the part that seems strange to me. You're telling me that other people (not you, by implication) can't think ahead and can't plan ahead... But when you actually drafted a plan, it seemed like it wasn't even worried about one of the biggest problems GDI faces right now, which is "all those refugees, where are they gonna live?" Now, as it happens, we'd be okay- we have a Housing surplus. But all the unoccupied Housing is low quality, mostly fortress towns, communal housing, and old commieblocks. Speaking as someone who's trying to address quality of life, I've been trying to do better by building apartments. So have most of the other leading plans I've seen... because we are planning ahead for predictable demands to improve housing quality and get people into nice places to live. A project that slowly turns out a small amount of really nice bespoke housing in arcologies every turn is nice and all, but it doesn't really address the scope of the problem.
But you caught me in a "lie," and that means you get to ignore anything else I said except when you feel like it?
You're right. I forgot to account for the Alternative Energy project. I actually did forget. The immediate impact of the Bureau projects seems to be a blind spot of mine, probably because I'm not used to seeing them in action.
With that said... I still know how to count.
The way I see it, if you're putting four dice on the personal vehicle plants, it's because you intend for the project to succeed. You intend for Anadyr to succeed. As a matter of common sense, I can't do that and then say "well hey, it might be okay, these projects I invested heavily in might not succeed!" Caution suggests that one should have a plan that is robust in case one gets what one wants. If I had your plan, I'd be planning on needing to cough up Energy for both those projects. Surely you're not saying you aren't planning for the prospect of success on projects that have a 70% or 80% or higher chance of success? That you're counting on them not actually finishing? So that's -8 Energy.
On top of that, the freeze-drying and fertilizer plants will succeed with 100% probability each, so presumably if you've been counting along, you're planning on a minimum of -10 Energy from those projects alone. If you didn't want both those projects to complete, you wouldn't invest so heavily in them. And you're presumably hoping for at least one of your Zone Armor projects to complete. That's another -3... If I were you, I'd be budgeting for at least an outlay of -13 Energy, just so I'm not in trouble from succeeding in my own goals.
In your case, there's an 88% chance that you're okay there, because you put one die in fusion. Absolutely fine.
There's a 12% chance that you're not. A number of simple and obvious solutions suggest themselves, such as taking the fusion research die and putting it into reactors. That completely eliminates the problem.
This is a normal issue to have in these plans. It's not a big deal. But it feels weird to see this kind of stuff from someone who's also talking about how other people don't plan ahead.
It would have been so easy for you to ensure that all your projects would be absolutely sure to have more Energy than they could possibly use, even in the most wildly successful possible case. And yet you set up your own plan such that if you get what you want, but that one fusion die rolls low, then there's one chance in eight that you become a victim of your own success.
...Starting Columbia and Shala will not, in fact, help us complete Enterprise by such a large margin that it offsets the part where your plan doesn't spend any dice on those things. That... isn't how the space stations work. I'm sorry.
I can at least respect that. Though I think 'evil' is unfair.
We're effectively building entire cities from scratch here. It's explicitly a problem that we've built the residential blocks but there's not much industry or workplaces there yet. Taking three to six months to get the hospital infrastructure in these entirely new cities up and running isn't that bad. If nothing else, we do still have plenty of older (but less-good) housing in our own existing core cities where we have plenty of long-established hospitals. Nobody's gonna be homeless if they refuse to move to a city that doesn't have its hospitals built yet.
But I can respect a hardline stance on this issue- though I won't be surprised if I end up deciding to do four dice on hospital expansion next turn. Maybe three; the ocular implant tech looks good too.
It's because doing one die of E-CRP (from Infrastructure) for +5 Stored Food has the potential to save us about six dice worth of granary construction (from Agriculture).
So if you want to have dice left over for nice things like Ranching Domes and Vertical Farming that produce the tasty stuff... Well, it's a lot easier to budget for those things if you've got a phase of E-CRP helping to fill out the storehouses in case of the worst emergencies.
...
On a related note, one of my big objections to both Steak and Tendrils and Roses Too is that they both budget for the ranching domes before clearing out the stored food issue properly. Me, I'm planning to get that issue settled comfortably before I start doing luxury food projects... But part of how I hope to do that is with a phase of E-CRP. By doing that, I expect that in Q3 and Q4, I'll be able to confidently roll out the ranching domes and a phase of vertical farming, without having to pour too many Free dice into Agriculture...
...But if you want a non-CRP plan, you need to plan around rolling at least twelve dice purely on food storage projects in Q2, Q3, an Q4. More realistically, plan for 13-14 dice in case something unlucky happens. And that starts to make the idea of fitting in ranching domes a bit more touch-and-go.
So that's why people are talking about E-CRP, the version where CRP food gets put into storage to only be eaten in the case of Worst Disaster. By contrast, no one is talking about 'proper' CRP, where it gets done in Agriculture and people are expected to eat it under normal conditions. Yuck.
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- Location
- The Underdark
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
Certainly.
Edit: Wow. Okay. Lucky I had something prepared...
Cut the lights, and start the music!
Under a broken sky
Gonna convert you
And no one's gonna be around
If you think that you won't fall
Well just wait until
'Til the storm comes in
Underneath the storm, ion storm
There's a terrible feeling, so forlorn
It will steal into your blue zone dorm
You can try to resist
Try to mine and blast the cryst
But you know, but you know that you
Can't fight the death rock
Deep in the blue, you'll sonic fence your home
But you know, but you know that you
Can't fight the death rock, no
You can't fight it
It's gonna get to your blue zone
There's no escaping death
Once the holy crystal
Weaves its lattice around your heart
No matter what you think
It won't be too long (not too long)
'Til you're in its arms
Underneath the storm, ion storm
We'll be lost to the crystal, so forlorn
Feel it steal into your blue zone dorm
You can try to resist
Try to mine and blast the cryst
But you know, but you know that you
Can't fight the death rock
Deep in the blue, you'll sonic fence your home
But you know, but you know that you
Can't fight the death rock, no
You can't fight it
No matter what you do
The rock is gonna get to you
Don't try, you're never gonna win, oh
Underneath the storm, ion storm
There's a terrible feeling, so forlorn
It will steal into your blue zone dorm
You can try to resist, try to mine and blast the cryst
But you know, but you know that you
Can't fight the death rock
Deep in the blue, you'll sonic fence your home
But you know, but you know that you
Can't fight the death rock
No, you can't fight it
You can try to resist, try to mine and blast the cryst
But you know, don't you know that you can't
Can't fight the death rock
Deep in the blue, you'll sonic fence your home
But you know, but you know that you
Can't fight the death rock
No, you can't fight it
It's gonna get into your blue zone
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- Location
- Wall Gazing
Welp! Ok. Its fine. Its all fine. Its just the tiberium is alive. And it hates us.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We need Darkangus to save us from this terrible nightmare.
- Location
- USA
Hmm...
That's about as bad as it gets.
Ah well. Two turns till the next one.
That's about as bad as it gets.
Ah well. Two turns till the next one.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Roses Too
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
I'm sorry.
I promise not to redub a song again.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Oooooo, well that's going to be rough friends.
Late entry, with no chance of winning, name fits.
Approval voting for
[X] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October
[X] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October with more Bogatyr and all dice activated
[X] Plan Roses Too
[X] Plan Dark Horse
-[X]Infrastructure 6/6 Dice +1AA 100 R
--[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6) 220/300 1 die +1AA Dice 40R ~90%
--[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 6+7?) 0/320 3 dice 30R 16% (99% for phase 2)
--[X] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 156/200 1 die 30R 100%
--[X] Bureau of Arcologies (Updated) 1 Infra die -15R auto
-[X]Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice 150 R
--[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 8) 243/300 1 die + 1 AA 40R ~99%
--[X] Crystal Beam Industrial Laser Deployment 51/600 3 dice 60R, 3/7 median
--[X] Isolinear Chip Foundry Anadyr 258/320 1 die 50R 83%
-[X]Light and Chemical Industry 5/5 Dice 95 R
--[X] Chemical Fertilizer Plants (Phase 2) 276/300 1 die 15R 100%
--[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) 0/380 2 dice, 60R 2/5 median
--[X] Civilian Drone Factories 104/380 2 dice 20R 2/3.5 median
-[X]Agriculture 4/4 Dice + 2 Free Dice + Erehwon 75 R
--[X] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 26/250 3 dice 45R 61%
--[X] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 4) 75/140 1 dice 10R 75%
--[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 3) 85/175 2 dice 20R 97%
--[X] Extra Large Food Stockpiles 1 die auto Erehwon
-[X]Tiberium 7/7 Dice 150 R
--[X] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 7+8) 78/200 1 die 15R 33% (100% for phase 7)
--[X] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 5) 6/100 1 die 20R 61%
--[X] Harvesting Tendril Deployment (Phase 2) 74/750 2 dice 60R 2 of 7.5 median
--[X] Improved Hewlett Gardener Process Development 0/160 2 dice 40R 85%
--[X] Tiberium Harvesting Claw Deployment 0/380 1 dice, 15 R 1/4.5 median
-[X]Orbital 6/6 + 2 Free Dice 160 R
--[X] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 5) 348/1535 (7, 140 R) 7/14.5 median
--[X] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 2) 11/125 (1 Die, 20 R) 38%
-[X]Services 5/5 Dice 180 R
--[X] Pinhole Portal Early Primitive Prototype Construction 56/180 (1 Die, 100 R) (19% chance)
--[X] Nod Research Initiatives (2 Dice, 60 R) (32% chance)
--[X] Professional Sports Programs 102/250 (2 Dice, 20 R) (70% chance)
-[X]Military 8/8 Dice + 3 Free Dice 210 R
--[X] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 3) 5/295 4 die 80R 81%
--[X] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 3) 0/200 2 dice 30R 23%
--[X] Escort Carrier Shipyards (New York) 0/240 2 dice 40R 4%
--[X] Shark Class Frigate Shipyard (Seattle) 0/300 1 dice 20R 1/4
--[X] Mastodon Heavy Assault Walker Deployment 113/225 1 die 10R 30%
--[X] Bogatyr Research Projects, 1 die 30R 37%
-[X]Bureaucracy 4/4 Dice
--[X] Administrative Assistance 2 die auto (Heavy Industry)
--[X] Administrative Assistance 2 die auto (Orbital)
-[X]Free Dice 7/7
-[X] 2 in Agriculture
-[X] 2 in Orbital
-[X] 3 in Military
-[X]Resources Income 1120/1130 Reserve 10/0
Approval voting for
[X] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October
[X] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October with more Bogatyr and all dice activated
[X] Plan Roses Too
[X] Plan Dark Horse
-[X]Infrastructure 6/6 Dice +1AA 100 R
--[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6) 220/300 1 die +1AA Dice 40R ~90%
--[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 6+7?) 0/320 3 dice 30R 16% (99% for phase 2)
--[X] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 156/200 1 die 30R 100%
--[X] Bureau of Arcologies (Updated) 1 Infra die -15R auto
-[X]Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice 150 R
--[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 8) 243/300 1 die + 1 AA 40R ~99%
--[X] Crystal Beam Industrial Laser Deployment 51/600 3 dice 60R, 3/7 median
--[X] Isolinear Chip Foundry Anadyr 258/320 1 die 50R 83%
-[X]Light and Chemical Industry 5/5 Dice 95 R
--[X] Chemical Fertilizer Plants (Phase 2) 276/300 1 die 15R 100%
--[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) 0/380 2 dice, 60R 2/5 median
--[X] Civilian Drone Factories 104/380 2 dice 20R 2/3.5 median
-[X]Agriculture 4/4 Dice + 2 Free Dice + Erehwon 75 R
--[X] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 26/250 3 dice 45R 61%
--[X] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 4) 75/140 1 dice 10R 75%
--[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 3) 85/175 2 dice 20R 97%
--[X] Extra Large Food Stockpiles 1 die auto Erehwon
-[X]Tiberium 7/7 Dice 150 R
--[X] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 7+8) 78/200 1 die 15R 33% (100% for phase 7)
--[X] Tiberium Processing Refits (Phase 5) 6/100 1 die 20R 61%
--[X] Harvesting Tendril Deployment (Phase 2) 74/750 2 dice 60R 2 of 7.5 median
--[X] Improved Hewlett Gardener Process Development 0/160 2 dice 40R 85%
--[X] Tiberium Harvesting Claw Deployment 0/380 1 dice, 15 R 1/4.5 median
-[X]Orbital 6/6 + 2 Free Dice 160 R
--[X] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 5) 348/1535 (7, 140 R) 7/14.5 median
--[X] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 2) 11/125 (1 Die, 20 R) 38%
-[X]Services 5/5 Dice 180 R
--[X] Pinhole Portal Early Primitive Prototype Construction 56/180 (1 Die, 100 R) (19% chance)
--[X] Nod Research Initiatives (2 Dice, 60 R) (32% chance)
--[X] Professional Sports Programs 102/250 (2 Dice, 20 R) (70% chance)
-[X]Military 8/8 Dice + 3 Free Dice 210 R
--[X] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 3) 5/295 4 die 80R 81%
--[X] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 3) 0/200 2 dice 30R 23%
--[X] Escort Carrier Shipyards (New York) 0/240 2 dice 40R 4%
--[X] Shark Class Frigate Shipyard (Seattle) 0/300 1 dice 20R 1/4
--[X] Mastodon Heavy Assault Walker Deployment 113/225 1 die 10R 30%
--[X] Bogatyr Research Projects, 1 die 30R 37%
-[X]Bureaucracy 4/4 Dice
--[X] Administrative Assistance 2 die auto (Heavy Industry)
--[X] Administrative Assistance 2 die auto (Orbital)
-[X]Free Dice 7/7
-[X] 2 in Agriculture
-[X] 2 in Orbital
-[X] 3 in Military
-[X]Resources Income 1120/1130 Reserve 10/0
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- Location
- MSC
Spam inhibitors and Containment lines?
I wonder - deploy all BZ inhibitors as requirement in next FYP?
I wonder - deploy all BZ inhibitors as requirement in next FYP?
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