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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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[X] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October with more Bogatyr and all dice activated

I'll approval vote for this one:
[X] Plan Tendrils and Plan Goals
But I do think that Department of Consumer Industrial Development is a really bad idea when we have a few large projects in LCI that we likely really need early next Plan. (Bergen 3 and Reykjavik 5.)
The rest of the plan is fine though.

Edit:
[X] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October
I only have slight disagreements now.
 
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HousePet said:
Okay, but your proposed system doesn't do anything about how fast the projects will get completed.
We can complete Boston 5 in 3 turns using our Free dice now.
With that system, we can complete Boston 5 in 3 turns using Free dice, and we get a decent discount as well.
While the discount is a point towards not rushing the project, the benefits of having a mega-project completed half a year earlier are huge.
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Yes, that's because Ithillid isn't trying to do that. Just because completing a megaproject half a year early has huge benefits doesn't mean that the system is intended to give us those benefits.

Derpmind said:
TBH, I didn't expect your plan to drop as far from the lead as it has in the past few hours. I thought it still had a good chance of pulling ahead and winning, but now it's nine votes behind. My arguments seem less helpful and more like pointless needling now. Sorry about that.
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The root problem is the vote split over the Bogatyr option; several people decided they'd rather vote for an October variant with a Bogatyr die and no Interdepartmental Favors. I'm basically conceding that, because I don't want to throw the vote in favor of options that only put 6-7 dice on Military Plan requirements when we've got Zone Armor to think about.
 
(Note: I continue to approval-vote @F0lkL0re , whose plan I like)

[X] Plan Hello Civilian Are You Having A Satisfactory Day?


@tenchifew , @HousePet , @ramdomperson
@Commandandc , @IndustrialVice2 , @Kyr'am
@Shadowward

I apologize for the mass-tag, but I am trying to get some people's attention regarding the vote. By my reckoning, all of you have voted for

[X] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October with more Bogatyr and all dice activated

And not for the default Attempting To Be Done By October plan, which has a total of 24 votes as of this writing (many of whom approval-voted the Bogatyr and all version. Seven plus 24 would bring us to 31 votes, which would be at least within shouting distance of the lead. Since I strongly desire for some Done By October plan to succeed because of the importance of getting our Military plan requirements out of the way, I am going to appeal for consensus.

As you see, I am approval-voting Tenchifew's version of the plan.

I am also going to edit my own to converge towards your clearly demonstrated desire to see the Bogatyr project started, even though I have my own reservations about this course of action.

As detailed below, I would politely ask that you all consider approval-voting my version of the plan, now that it is changed as you see below.


@MightbeaMimic , @Chlof , @Captainwolf , @Cerroneth
@RCNAnon , @Alonsis2 , @sunrise

I apologize, again, for the mass tag, but if you've read the above text, you know why I'm bringing you in on this. By my reckoning, you seven have voted for my baseline version of Attempting To Be Done By October, without approval-voting Tenchifew's version. I am attempting to build a compromise unity platform with Tenchifew on the subject of "actually getting more than seven dice on Military plan goals this turn."

I would like to request that any of you who have not already approval-voted Tenchifew's plan consider doing so. However, I am also going to be editing my own plan, so for any people who really like Interdepartmental Favors and don't want to see it go, do not worry! I will be taking one OSRCT die and moving it to the Bogatyr with no other changes.

This will supersede the old version of my plan.

If any of you want to withdraw your votes because of that, my apologies, please do so.

Anyone who didn't approval-vote my plan before, you have the Bogatyr now. Please consider approval-voting my plan alongside Tenchifew's, as the remaining difference is quite small (my version gives us a chance at PS through Interdepartmental Favors, his gives us one more OSRCT die at the cost of using an AA die and getting reduced chance of completion on the Newark yard)


1120/1130 Resources
7/7 Free dice

ENERGY PLANNING (pessimistic)
+5 (baseline) -4 (Anadyr) +16 (fusion) -1 (fertilizer) -1 (freeze drying) -1 (mechanization) -3 (Mastodons) -2 (URLS) -5 (Newark)
->
+4 Energy (but with all power-hungry military Plan requirements finished, and only the frigate yard remaining)

FOOD PLANNING (pessimistic)
+26 (baseline) +4 (fertilizer) +6 (freeze drying) -12 (ELFS) -6 (Phase 3+4 granaries) -5 (refugees are hungry)
->
+13 Food (with mechanization on the way for +12 more next turn, and/or easy +6 from Aquaponics, in Q3)
(optimistically, could easily be +25 food if Phase 2 mechanization completes, which is more likely than not)

STORED FOOD PLANNING (target: 28 Stored Food)
+12 (baseline) +8 (ELFS) +2 (Phase 3 granaries)
->
22 Stored Food (or 24 if Phase 4 completes)


[X] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October
Infrastructure (+34) 6/6 Dice 90 R
-[X] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 156/200 (1 Die, 30 R) (100% chance)
-[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6) 220/300 (1 Die, 20 R) (70% chance)
-[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 6+7) 0/320 (4 Dice, 40 R) (Phase 6, 71% chance Phase 7)
Heavy Industry (+29) 5/5 Dice + 1 Free Die + 1 AA Die 170 R
-[X] Isolinear Chip Foundry Anadyr 258/320 (1 Die, 50 R) (83% chance)
-[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 8) 243/300 (1 + AA Dice, 40 R) (99.4% chance of Phase 8)
-[X] Crystal Beam Industrial Laser Deployment 51/600 (4 Dice, 80 R) (4/7 median)
Light and Chemical Industry (+24) 5/5 Dice 95 R
-[X] Chemical Fertilizer Plants (Phase 2) 276/300 (1 Die, 15 R) (100% chance)
-[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 3) 0/380 (2 Dice, 60 R) (2/5 median)
-[X] Civilian Drone Factories 104/380 (2 Dice, 20 R) (2/3.5 median)
Agriculture (+24) 4/4 Dice + 2 Free Dice + EREWHON!!! 75 R
-[X] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 26/250 (3 Dice, 45 R) (61% chance)
-[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 3+4) 85/375 (3 Dice, 30 R) (Phase 3, 16% chance of Phase 4)
-[X] Extra Large Food Stockpiles (E, 0 R) (autosuccess)
-[X] Freeze Dried Food Plants 181/200 (0 Dice, 0 R) (autocompletion)
Tiberium (+39) 7/7 Dice 160 R
-[X] Tiberium Harvesting Claw Deployment 0/380 (2 Dice, 30 R) (2/4.5 median)
-[X] RZ-7 Tiberium Inhibitor (North America) 0/120 (1 Die, 30 R) (35% chance)
-[X] Harvesting Tendril Deployment (Phase 2) 74/750 (2 Dice, 60 R) (2/7.5 median)
-[X] Improved Hewlett Gardener Process Development 0/160 (2 Dice, 40 R) (85% chance)
Orbital (+26) 6/6 + 2 Free Dice 160 R
-[X] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 5) 348/1535 (7 Dice, 140 R) (7/14.5 median)
-[X] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 2) 11/125 (1 Die, 20 R) (38% chance of Phase 2)
Services (+27) 5/5 Dice 180 R
-[X] Pinhole Portal Early Primitive Prototype Construction 56/180 (1 Die, 100 R) (19% chance)
-[X] Nod Research Initiatives (2 Dice, 60 R) (32% chance)
-[X] Professional Sports Programs 102/250 (2 Dice, 20 R) (46% chance)
Military (+26) 8/8 Dice + 2 Free Dice 190 R
-[X] Mastodon Heavy Assault Walker Deployment 113/225 (1 Die, 10 R) (30% chance)
-[X] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 3) 0/200 (2 Dice, 30 R) (23% chance)
-[X] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Newark) 0/240 (3 Dice, 60 R) (54% chance)
-[X] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 3) 5/295 (3 Dice, 60 R) (28% chance) (3/9 to Plan goal)
-[X] Bogatyr Research Projects 0/110 (1 Die, 30 R) (37% chance)
Bureaucracy 3/4
-[X] Administrative Assistance- Fusion Power (2 Dice)
-[X] Interdepartmental Favor (1 Die)

 
Karugus said:
It's got a coherent plan going forward, it's working on Bogatyr before NOD inevitably takes it off our hands (They got the Tacitus out of one of the most fortified position on Earth- it's an inevitability), and it's at the very least gearing up to undergo the military revolution we've been stuck ignoring for years.
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Really? Comparing a Kane Masterstroke that was years in the making, with... what resources do they have to attack the Bogatyr research base? The not-fully-in-action Order of the Remembrancer, who already tried once and bounced?
 
Lightwhispers said:
Really? Comparing a Kane Masterstroke that was years in the making, with... what resources do they have to attack the Bogatyr research base? The not-fully-in-action Order of the Remembrancer, who already tried once and bounced?
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While Kane could have been performing for the camera, he sounded genuinely disappointed and upset that we had the Bogatyr and didn't sound like he really had a plan for getting it back.

To be fair, he has very possibly given up on the whole "world conquest" thing, with the main reason he sustains Nod now being that he needs Nod's firepower and industrial base as a bargaining chip for when he dickers with us about the TCN. If so, the tech aboard the flying battleship probably wouldn't do us a lot of good in the "screw you, Kane, we're building our own TCN with blackjack and hookers" threat. And therefore our continued possession of it doesn't really inconvenience him much, except insofar as the tech makes it harder for Nod to beat us in a fight, which...

[looks at Steel Vanguard]

...Is already a problem anyway. At this point Nod gives Kane about as much leverage just by existing and having a nuclear arsenal plus the ruthlessness to use tiberium weapons to avoid conquest as it does by being strong enough to win pitched battles with GDI... And real talk, Nod at the moment is a lot closer to the former than to the latter.
 
[X] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October

Simon_Jester said:
Escort Carrier Shipyards (Newark) 0/240 (3 Dice, 60 R) (54% chance)
Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Stations (Phase 3) 5/295 (3 Dice, 60 R) (28% chance) (3/9 to Plan goal)
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Why not shift a dice from Newark to OSRCT? Unless I'm missing something about department dice requirements, doing so would reduce the chance of overkilling Newark while not doing the same to OSRCT due to any possible overflow going into Phase 4.
 
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ramdomperson said:
Why not shift a dice from Newark to OSRCT? Unless I'm missing something about department dice requirements, doing so would reduce the chance of overkilling Newark while not doing the same to OSRCT due to it any possible overflow going into Phase 4.
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Let me just say I appreciate your support. Tenchifew's plan is still okay and deserves your continued support unless you really like Interdepartmental Favors.

Because Newark has a negligible chance of completing with only two dice. Only 4%, as I recall. For all practical purposes, three dice isn't overkill, it's the realistic minimum barring wild good luck.

Tenchifew's version of the plan scraps Interdepartmental Favors and feeds Newark 2+AA dice, giving it a roughly 34% chance of completion. With three dice, it has about a 54% chance of completion as I recall. But while I could stomach dropping from 54% to 34% if not for the loss of Favors, I cannot in good conscience go all the way down to 4%. We need those escort carriers and we need them quite a while ago, and this is as close as I can reasonably come to chronosphering them into "a while ago." :p

...

Meanwhile, Bogatyr and OSRCT dice are fungible. I'm basically taking my somewhat-pessmistic plan, and saying "okay, so instead of rolling dice on the Bogatyr in Q3 and Q4, we'll roll them in Q2 and Q3, and we'll have an extra die available for OSRCT in Q4 if we need it. I don't like doing this, mind you, but the Bogatyr and all voters have made their preferences clear and I have to find a way to make it happen somehow. I've decided I like doing it this way better than shorting Newark.

Especially since if Newark picks up the accursed dice from New York I really want to throw enough dice at the project to give us a very good chance of completion in Q2 or Q3, because then we have Q4 as a backup for extreme bad luck.

...

Assuming a win here, I'm planning for Q3 in Military to look something like

1 die Bogatyr (if necessary)
2 dice tidying loose ends (Newark, Mastodons, URLS)
2 dice ASAT
2 dice Zone Armor plant
4 dice OSRCT

And yeah, that only leaves four Free dice elsewhere. I'm thinking at least one on Orbital, one on Agriculture, and one to float depending on where I want to or can send it. Agriculture if I can, Heavy Industry if I must.

Q4 would be tidying up loose ends with hopefully no more than 1-2 dice each on any mandatory project, with the rest of the Military dice given over to naval laser refits, zone armor, or maybe maybe something else.

(Zone Armor gets a minimum allotment of 3 dice in 2061Q4 if I get my way, as acknowledgement to @BoSPaladin ; naval lasers get second priority after that)

...

If I lose (and I don't count losing to Tenchi as "losing" at this point), well, I'm gonna be in "fuuuu-" mode. Because unless I miss my guess, we will simultaneously need to throw a bunch of dice at wrapping up the Stored Food target to compensate for Ranching Dome dice spent in Q2, and a bunch at Military to be reasonably assured of actually completing our Plan targets. I don't expect to be able to squeeze in Zone Armor in Q3 the way I would have wanted, unless our Military rolls are freaky-good. Even Q4 may be a stretch unless I can swing a lot of Free dice on Military, like, 4-5.

I've already given up on the Seattle yard, which frustrates me but I can't really do much about it except hope.

EDIT:

I'm gonna be away for at least a few hours now. I really hope people consider the merits of the October plan family! Now with 100% more hover battleship research! :)
 
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Simon_Jester said:
Yes, that's because Ithillid isn't trying to do that. Just because completing a megaproject half a year early has huge benefits doesn't mean that the system is intended to give us those benefits.
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Yeah, but what I was pointing out is that the proposed system gives a benefit to the behaviour it was not intended to support.
The proposed system does make rushing a megaproject cheaper. This is contrary to the goal of the proposal.

I'll edit an earlier post with approval voting.
 
Every time I see people trying to form specific policy positions based on the just-for-fun omake I wrote it wilts my desire to ever write anything like that again.
 
NickAragua said:
To be fair, unless we're talking about something else, it did get included by the QM as part of an update.
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It's more that the entire intent was just "Kane rips the Warlords a new one, a thing that basically all of us figured was coming". The QM basically gave me an excuse to write hammy, scenery-chewing purple prose. Which is what I did.
 
KnightDisciple said:
It's more that the entire intent was just "Kane rips the Warlords a new one, a thing that basically all of us figured was coming". The QM basically gave me an excuse to write hammy, scenery-chewing purple prose. Which is what I did.
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Vehrec said:
So does about 10-20 random omake written by a crowd in the discord, which is all the GDI online sections are. Maybe sometimes Granger is written by Squid, but other than that, you should take them with a hefty grain of salt.
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I get it - I saw several posts, in passing, to that effect, both in the thread and on discort. My point is that the message conveyed by including something in a "main update" is that it happened. The opinions expressed on GDIOnline may be badly misinformed in-universe; so they're not that great for anything other than an insight into individual sentiment. Expecting someone to be able to tell the difference between a "pure fluff" lecture by Kane and a "gameplay relevant" lecture by Kane is probably unreasonable.

Granted, the people who make plans probably do follow the thread and the "inside baseball" on who wrote what, so I suppose this discussion is somewhat academic.
 
[X] Plan Hello Civilian Are You Having A Satisfactory Day?
[X] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October with more Bogatyr and all dice activated
[X] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October
 
personally my omakes I try to work with what squids already given us. "There's X unhappy with Y." To flesh it out. For example with hundreds of politicians a handful that are willing to try for bipartisanship aren't going to be utterly game changing. Particularly since we as the players have repeatedly made those concerted efforts for bipartisan plans, goals and projects. Or at the least, supermajorities including most of the parties.
 
When it comes to things written by other people that I include in my updates, I am usually (not always, I am simply human after all) quite serious about them. GDIOnline is something that I care about, and like, and the opinions in there, for the most part, are ones where somebody in the crowd holds that opinion. It might not be a popular one, or one that has any bearing on lived reality for the vast majority of the people, but well, rule of large sample sizes applies here. For the Kane piece, it is something where it is scenery chewing purple prose, but that is also informing some of how I approach Kane taking a public position. At the same time, it is what Kane is speaking in a scene where he knows he is bugged and can make a show of things.
 
Image said:
What's the actual math of losing free dice vs continual expansion anyway? I imagine its has to be somewhat close just to be considered. I'm a little leery giving up 2 dice and 30 rp for +2 resources a turn but that just might be lazy greed on my part.
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As no one else seems to be doing an item by item evaluation, My take is something like this:

Infrastructure: 6 dice +20 bonus per dice:
Blue zone arcology:
Standard: (Progress 1/650: 15 resources per die) (+8 Housing, +4 Consumer Goods, +1 Energy Reserve, -2 Energy)[ ] Bureau of Arcologies (Updated)
Department: (-1 Infrastructure die, -2 to Infrastructure dice, -15 RpT) (+1 Housing per turn, +1 Consumer Goods per turn) (-50 progress needed on Arcologies)

Standard: (650/70) or 9.3 dice/150 resources on average to make one arcology... so roughly +.86 housing, +.43 Consumer Goods, +.11 Energy reserves, -.21 Energy per dice.
New Standard: (600/68) or 8.8 dice and 135 resources on average: Roughly .91 Housing, .46 Consumer goods, .11 Energy reserves, -.23 energy for dice
Department: 1 dice at +18, 15 RpT=+1 Housing +1 and Consumer Goods+1, not energy reserve and no energy cost.

Looking at this I can only conclude that the energy drain from constantly charging those reserve batteries are the 2 Energy invest for 1 stored is some kind of political graft event. Never mind how they eat up 4 consumer goods of space for one reserve energy. Back up generators with some kind of chemical fuel source would be more efficient for the space an investment. Granted probably also off to the side so it takes nothing else out if it explodes. Also probably an issue needing local tar berry production in the local sewage processor to fix really. Maybe research into some kind of stable chemical fuel with at least a decade of shelf life or regular use of the older fuel.

At the old +1 housing it wasn't really worth it outside savings in energy usage which isn't nothing. The negative means headhunting of personnel for the new department and seems like some internal Empire Building is happening here. The Consumer Goods from this turn make it seem fully worth while.

This department has 6 dice available so not a bad trade as your going to need the housing long term anyway and the energy savings are work it. Consumer Goods are just a major bonus. So this one is totally worth it. Even before politics is considered.
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Heavy Industry: 5 dice +15 bonus per dice.

[ ] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants
average 50 rolls: (300/65): 20 resources per Die) (+16 Energy) (-1 Labor)=4.61 dice per CCFP. 5 dice+100=16 energy.
[ ] Division of Alternative Energy
(+3 Energy per turn, -10 Resources per turn, -1 Heavy Industry Dice)
5 dice+50 resources equal to 15 energy

Roughly even outcome for investment seems to be more about the nature of targeted solutions than anything else. A good investment. Good now. You are always going to need energy. Only issue is that Heavy industry is only 5 dice so your at 4 dice in this category afterwards. So this eats up a lot of margin for error. Fortunately this categories plan goals are covered for this plan and more are available in roughly a year. Probably.

[ ] Distributed Heavy Industrial Authority (New)
(+2 Capital Goods per turn, -30 Resources per turn, -1 Heavy Industry Dice)

Fast. Cheap. Good. Classic 'Pick Two' scenario. Its fast and good but not really cheap, but saves on the ever drained energy budget so there is that. Only real issue is at 5 dice in Heavy industry its going to drag free dice into this category regularly to do the big projects if this is done this plan. So your not really saving dice only dragging them in from else where.

Completely skipable until new options are open next plan.
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Light and Chemical Industry: 5dice at +10 per dice bonus
[ ] Department of Consumer Industrial Development (New)
(+2 Consumer Goods per turn, -15 resources per turn, -1 Light and Chemical Industry die)

[ ] Department of Distributed Manufactures (New)
(+1 Capital Goods per turn, -20 resources per turn, -1 Light and Chemical Industry die)

These two are somewhat dubious investments. You only have 5 dice in this category so -2 would leave you with 3 left and require free dice not to make this category mostly useless this plan. I can't recommend these ones currently. The actual projects involved tend to be a better use of dice for now.
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Snakry commentary on categories with no spin off options.
Agriculture:
The lack of suggestions mean this is a 'you' problem and the way the senators seem hellbent on forcing ever larger stockpiles of food at high quality mean this a political football category where the purpose of the 'football' is to been the administrator in the skull with it until enough of a concussion is achieved to cause future dubious plans to get made a reality.
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Tiberium:
Another 'you' problem. You increase the supply as the Treasury so they can divide it up for their own needs and wants. Bread and butter of the Treasury.
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Orbital:
Another 'you' problem with your other problem being the Treasury is there to make things other decide happen. If you pull things off they get credit for it. If you fail its all your fault for not upholding their political promises. Everyone want the results without actually being responsible for the results actually happening... except for those guys in the subquest basically getting paid to do their hobby.
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Services:
Only 5 dice and again people want results they can claim credit for... without having to do the hard part.
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Military:
Your just here to handle the budgeting and the construction paperwork.
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Bureaucracy (4 dice)
[ ] Banking Reforms (New)
(Must maintain 100 resources in reserve.)

An excellent thing to do fourth quarter, as your going to lose a lot of resources afterwards anyway when the next leg of the plan kicks in. Unless all goals are met and you don't want to start projects without them getting in the way of the plan right then. Necessary long term, but expensive now.

[ ] Long Term Systematic Planning Organization (New)
(-2 Free Dice) (-20 Capital Goods) (Significantly reorganizes project management) (+10 Dice Capacity)

Currently the Trap Option. You can't get any dice back to fill the capacity until the new plan starts, so best used after the new plan kicks off and you've had a real chance to boost up the Capital Goods to eat that negative capital good per turn... looks like building a global computer network to handle things.

If the numbers on 'Distributed Heavy Industrial Authority' are useful that is a effectively a -300 (+2 CAP, -30 RpT x10 turns) resource cost or two and a half years worth of that departments function to neutralize the on going cost.

For reference, things go from 57/60 dice in use before negative to 55/70 dice. Enterprise alone could use those dice to complete on time.

[ ] Predictive Modeling Management (New)
(-10 Capital Goods) (Changes dice to 2d50)
More of the same above. Except it may get less bad if you do the 2364 progress left on 'North Boston Chip Fabricator (Phase 5)' to make better AI for this. Probably.

---

TL; DR:
-Bureau of Arcologies is worth it now.
-Division of Alternative Energy: Probably worth it, but will limit Heavy Industry unless more dice show up next Plan.
-Distributed Heavy Industrial Authority: Probably not worth it this plan.
-Department of Consumer Industrial Development and -Department of Distributed Manufactures: Probably not worth it this plan. Catagory has too few dice at this time.
-Banking Reforms: Completely worth it long term and maybe necessary medium term. Do it 4Q as your probably losing those resources anyway and good luck convincing people to make plan with 100 resource left over plans for the rest of the year.
-Long Term Systematic Planning Organization: No point yet as loses 2 free dice for no gain until after the next Plan is formed. Also puts GDI at -8 Capital Goods per turn for no sane reason. Literally a vanity project at this immediate point that could get your main character sent to a loony bin.
-Predictive Modeling Management: Expensive at -10 Capital Goods per turn but technically doable. Even considering that better done after NBCF bonus is in play.
 
Necratoid said:
Looking at this I can only conclude that the energy drain from constantly charging those reserve batteries are the 2 Energy invest for 1 stored is some kind of political graft event.
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Most of that energy is not going to charging the batteries. Some is, occasionally, but the thing is that arcology clusters tend to be energy hogs on their own, between life support, industrial work, and other things that tend to get put into arcologies, like datacenters.
 
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