So basically this is something where you have, sort of in the same time period, the potential to unlock a fairly substantial number of free dice, between a second AI dev project, this time with potential rerolls to force good results, potential recruits with free dice, and potentially a few other things that I have not talked about yet.
Ahh.

That changes the equation, then. Though it should be noted that we're probably going to need quite some time to scrape together the 20 Capital Goods price tag in any event. Especially with the ZOCOM situation kiiiind of pressuring us into a vein mining push in early 2062 at this rate, which is going to eat up quite a bit of Capital Goods.

(nods respectfully to QM)



(turns to talk to everybody)

More generally... Everyone? I have grave concerns about the leading plans. I think they are setting us up for a risk of Plan targets due to unlucky rolls in Q3 and Q4, or of being unable to use our dice on projects we would very much like to complete because we're forced to overspend to get 99% surefire completion of those Plan targets.

...

I am also uncomfortable with Roses Too not allocating any additional dice to fusion power besides the first one, because there's a 12% chance of the fusion plants not competing, and that would knock us down to zero or negative Energy if it happens, depending on which of Cryo's projects complete. More importantly, I think it is premature to do a radical shift to four Free dice on Agriculture dice and zero on Military, as Roses Too does. I think that doing this just to get two dice on Ranching Domes is counterproductive, because we will still have to spend additional dice on the domes in Q3 anyway, and possibly in Q4 if the rolls are bad, and it will be harder to find Free dice in those areas because we have even more quasi-mandatory Military dice spending to worry about if we want to get done all our actual Plan targets and somehow find room for the Zone Armor factories that are greatly desired. I do not think we will be realistically able to get ZOCOM back into their comfort zone in time for early 2062 Red Zone operations under this kind of planning paradigm. We will not have many if any Military dice to spare for Zone Armor factories in 2061, and we will likely not be able to afford them in early 2062.

With that said, I respect that Roses Too does not explicitly plan on catching us in a "worst of both worlds" scenario where we cannot complete Tendrils in time to build up a useful reserve for banking or 2062Q1 spending, but will complete it too soon to be able to use its rewards as seed corn to get our own operations flourishing and effective. Remember, for us, in the immediate aftermath of reapportionment, those 75 RpT extra would be something like 11-12% of our budget. To the rest of GDI's departments combined, they're 5% or so of the budget. Roses Too, much like Attempting To Be Done By October, is a relatively slow-Tendrils plan.

...

Steak and Tendrils raises some different issues in my book. The effort to complete the ranching domes delays work on the Stored Food targets considerably, as with Roses Too- though Roses Too compensates by sheer volume of Free dice thrown at Agriculture to do both at once. In my assessment, it is overwhelmingly likely that we'll still be throwing significant Free dice at mandatory Agriculture projects to see them done in 2061Q4 if we take Steak and Tendrils, and may miss our target unless we use extensive E-CRP to ensure we hit it cheaply and quickly.

I think that Steak and Tendrils, if successful, will find the Zone Defender revision (thrown in as a move in the direction of a power armor rollout in late 2061 to benefit ZOCOM, presumably) to be less helpful than expected. Because this plan only makes six dice of progress on our mandatory Military plan goals, and we have 17 Military dice worth of goals left, even if everything rolls okay, which we can't count on. At this rate, we'll still have several dice worth of mandatory Military projects like some combination of OSRCT, ASAT, and the Newark yard left to roll in Q4. There will not be room to build Zone Armor factories in Q3-Q4 and there will probably not be money to do more than a little of it in early 2062.

Speaking of having money... Steak and Tendrils as of this writing sets us up for the "worst of both worlds" scenario I just described. Unlikely to complete the tendrils project in time to get a 200 R cash reserve fund, very likely to complete it in time to lose the steady 75 RpT income stream we'd get from finishing it in 2062Q1 or later. To address this, Derpmind said she was planning to shuffle dice to put an eighth die on the tendrils. I hope she does. As of this writing she appears not to have done so, and I'm sure she's otherwise occupied and planning to get around to it. I gather she dislikes being pinged about these things so I'm not doing that. It would somewhat address my concerns if she did that reshuffle, because then at least we'd have a 75% chance instead of a 33% chance of getting the 200 R "first prize" for working hard to finish the tendril rollout. Without the reshuffle, there is too much risk of getting the 100 R "second prize" or even the 0 R "last place" and having nothing to help fund our operations from the project.

...

With that said.

I cannot emphasize this enough, but if we want to have Zone Armor coming off of assembly lines in significant quantity during 2061, we must continue to spend Free dice on the military. There is not enough wiggle room in the Plan otherwise. We need to roll 17+ Military dice in the next three turns just to hit mandatory targets, over and above any non-mandatory projects like Bogatyr research, the Defender revision, the Seattle yard, or anything else.

Seventeen mandatory dice if things go well. More likely, 3-4 more than that. Plus things like Bogatyr that both frontrunning plans already include.

Realistically, we can make this happen in one of two ways. We can throw 9-10 dice at the military now, as Attempting To Be Done By October and its variants do, and then have enough options to be flexible in Q3 and Q4, or we can throw 6-7 dice at the military now, as Steak and Tendrils and Roses Too do, and then not have enough options or time barring extremely aggressive military Free dice spending in the next two turns that may conflict with efforts to get mandatory Agriculture and Orbital projects done on time.

If you want to have Ground Force Zone Armor coming off assembly lines in 2061, and you don't have a lucky four-leaf clover to bless our dice, do not vote for plans that spend no Free dice on the military. Even though Attempting To Be Done By October does not contain direct power armor spending, it positions us for power armor spending in a way the competing plans cannot do.
 
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I'm hoping that even if our investment in Bogatyr doesn't complete this turn, that the additional resources allocated to it will help improve its defenses against potential Remembrancer raids.
 
I'm hoping that even if our investment in Bogatyr doesn't complete this turn, that the additional resources allocated to it will help improve its defenses against potential Remembrancer raids.
Since we are unlikely to be able to afford better stuff to defend against those raids any time soon (barring a high-Military plan like Attempting To Be Done By October), we can at least hope that the Resource infusion leads to more of the existing stuff being deployed, yes.



As of this writing, there are 30 votes on Roses Too, 27 on Steak and Tendrils, 20 on Attempting To Be Done By October, and 17 on tenchifew's 'Bogatyr yes' version of Attempting To Be Done By October, which sacrifices Interdepartmental Favors to (indirectly) get us a Bogatyr die.

Counting @tenchifew himself, there are six people (tenchifew, HousePet, ramdomperson, Commandandc IndustrialVice2, and Kyr'am) who voted only for the Bogatyr variant.

There appear to be nine people who voted for the baseline version but not the Bogatyr variant. (me, MightbeaMimic, Chlof, Captainwolf, Cerroneth, RCNAnon, Alonsis2, sunrise, and Sa'kage)

This represents significant vote fragmentation- if we all pulled together on either version of the plan, there would be 26 votes, which would put us collectively in reach of the two front-runners.

Both versions of Attempting To Be Done By October agree on spending two (or two and a half) Free dice on the military. This level of consistent spending gives us thirty Military dice to play with over the course of the year instead of twenty-four. Which is far more wiggle room in terms of freedom to complete other projects, including Bogatyr research, Zone Armor, the Seattle frigate yard, railgun ammunition rollout, hallucinogen countermeasures, or the naval laser refits. It's unlikely that we'd be able to do all those things, but we could at least do some.

Both versions of Attempting To Be Done By October agree (like Roses Too) on a slow rollout of tendrils. Unlike both leading plans, both versions of October concentrate all Agricultural dice on fulfilling the Stored Food target, with the intent of having our dice clear to work on Ranching Domes and Vertical Farming later in the year.

Supporters of both forms of October have a good deal in common. I would like to discuss a compromise solution to avoid vote fragmentation and the overall policy agenda being lost in a squabble over whether to do Interdepartmental Favors in Q2 and Bogatyr research in Q3-Q4 (my plan), or Bogatyr Research in Q2-Q3 and Interdepartmental Favors at some indefinite time later or never (tenchifew's plan).

I am avoiding any mass-tagging right now, but I would very much hope to see some discussion of this. If it becomes apparent that there is much more actual support from people who care strongly about getting Bogatyr dice now than there is for doing Interdepartmental Favors in hopes of gaining some Political Support at all, I am prepared to concede and endorse tenchifew's plan. On the other hand, my plan has so far proven slightly (only slightly) more of a vote-grabber, so I feel like there's some room for discussion here.

I would like to assure everyone, including tenchifew, that I will definitely throw Bogatyr research the funds and dice it needs to succeed in Q3 and Q4 if my plans win. The project will not be ignored entirely, merely delayed somewhat. By contrast, I fear that the window of opportunity for Interdepartmental Favors may close if not done this turn, because we have the Civil Satisfaction Survey to do, and Q4 is probably a bad time for the favors.
 
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[x] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October
[x] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October with more Bogatyr and all dice activated
 
Since we are unlikely to be able to afford better stuff to defend against those raids any time soon (barring a high-Military plan like Attempting To Be Done By October), we can at least hope that the Resource infusion leads to more of the existing stuff being deployed, yes.



As of this writing, there are 30 votes on Roses Too, 27 on Steak and Tendrils, 20 on Attempting To Be Done By October, and 17 on tenchifew's 'Bogatyr yes' version of Attempting To Be Done By October, which sacrifices Interdepartmental Favors to (indirectly) get us a Bogatyr die.

Counting @tenchifew himself, there are six people (tenchifew, HousePet, ramdomperson, Commandandc IndustrialVice2, and Kyr'am) who voted only for the Bogatyr variant.

There appear to be nine people who voted for the baseline version but not the Bogatyr variant. (me, MightbeaMimic, Chlof, Captainwolf, Cerroneth, RCNAnon, Alonsis2, sunrise, and Sa'kage)

This represents significant vote fragmentation- if we all pulled together on either version of the plan, there would be 26 votes, which would put us collectively in reach of the two front-runners.

Both versions of Attempting To Be Done By October agree on spending two (or two and a half) Free dice on the military. This level of consistent spending gives us thirty Military dice to play with over the course of the year instead of twenty-four. Which is far more wiggle room in terms of freedom to complete other projects, including Bogatyr research, Zone Armor, the Seattle frigate yard, railgun ammunition rollout, hallucinogen countermeasures, or the naval laser refits. It's unlikely that we'd be able to do all those things, but we could at least do some.

Both versions of Attempting To Be Done By October agree (like Roses Too) on a slow rollout of tendrils. Unlike both leading plans, both versions of October concentrate all Agricultural dice on fulfilling the Stored Food target, with the intent of having our dice clear to work on Ranching Domes and Vertical Farming later in the year.

Supporters of both forms of October have a good deal in common. I would like to discuss a compromise solution to avoid vote fragmentation and the overall policy agenda being lost in a squabble over whether to do Interdepartmental Favors in Q2 and Bogatyr research in Q3-Q4 (my plan), or Bogatyr Research in Q2-Q3 and Interdepartmental Favors at some indefinite time later or never (tenchifew's plan).

I am avoiding any mass-tagging right now, but I would very much hope to see some discussion of this. If it becomes apparent that there is much more actual support from people who care strongly about getting Bogatyr dice now than there is for doing Interdepartmental Favors in hopes of gaining some Political Support at all, I am prepared to concede and endorse tenchifew's plan. On the other hand, my plan has so far proven slightly (only slightly) more of a vote-grabber, so I feel like there's some room for discussion here.

I would like to assure everyone, including tenchifew, that I will definitely throw Bogatyr research the funds and dice it needs to succeed in Q3 and Q4 if my plans win. The project will not be ignored entirely, merely delayed somewhat. By contrast, I fear that the window of opportunity for Interdepartmental Favors may close if not done this turn, because we have the Civil Satisfaction Survey to do, and Q4 is probably a bad time for the favors.
I can only repeat what I have said way before the latest update dropped - I was extremely wary about not funding Bogatyr last turn, but the offered plan hit too many points for me not to vote for it. But even then this one turn was the only delay I was ready to accept.

I will not vote for any plan that does not include Bogatyr investment this turn, not because I doubt our ability to get it done before the deadline, but because I am seeing other branches very much working on it - even since last turn the wording of this option changed. In my opinion the later we participate, the less we get out of it and the worse our position will be. Thus I want us to get in on it as early as possible.

I am not against Interdepartmental Favors, dropping them was just the easisest way I saw to get an extra die. That this also allowed to activate all bureaucracy dice was a nice bonus. But were there another modification of your plan allowing to start Bogatyr this turn, I could vote for it.
 
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[x] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October
[x] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October with more Bogatyr and all dice activated
 
Also, I feel it needs pointing out that Extra-Large Food Stockpiles really needs to be pushed this turn. IIRC, previous stockpile actions have added +4 Stored Food per turn up to the limit for that stockpile. If that continues, we would need Q2-Q4 in order to get the +12 Stored Food for this option.

I'm not sure if Parliament will be okay if we're not at the value at the end of the year but it's already scheduled to complete over the next few turns vs all the food is Stored at the end of the year.

--

I wonder if we could get options to use BZ MARV hubs for food stockpiles if we completed them. It might work out a bit better than our current strategic stockpiles increasing progress issue. Well... in the future. No way we'd find out this Plan.
 
I can only repeat what I have said way before the latest update dropped - I was extremely wary about not funding Bogatyr last turn, but the offered plan hit too many points for me not to vote for it. But even then this one turn was the only delay I was ready to accept.
Yeah. If it hadn't been for the disastrous outcome wiping out all our progress on the New York carrier yard, I would be a lot more comfortable with a Bogatyr die this turn, but that put us even farther behind on formal Plan targets and I'm trying to clear the air of that in the full knowledge that it's going to be a close-run thing.

I am not against Interdepartmental Favors, it was just the easisest way I saw to get an extra die. That this also allowed to activate all bureaucracy dice was a nice bonus. But were there another modification of your plan allowing to start Bogatyr this turn, I could vote for it.
I know. At the same time, the only other vaguely-okay modification I can think of that doesn't bother me greatly would be to take one of the OSRCT dice and throw that at the Bogatyr project, which I like even less although it's arguably less consequential given that Political Support is worth a lot even in small doses.

I will not vote for any plan that does not include Bogatyr investment this turn, not because I doubt our ability to get it done before the deadline, but because I am seeing other branches very much working on it - even since last turn the wording of this option changed. In my opinion the later we participate, the less we get out of it and the worse our position will be. Thus I want us to get in on it as early as possible.
I understand that this is very important to you. At the same time, I'm staring at a fragmented vote where the two frontrunners both position us to be very pressed for time if we want Zone Armor rollouts, and where my own plan has lost several votes to a variant.

I'm trying to find a resolution that reflects the wishes of everyone involved, and hoping to hear from several people, because I feel like if we don't find a resolution to the fragmentation on Attempting To Be Done By October, we're going to be in a position where we're more likely to fail at either Plan targets, things the thread cares deeply about, or both.

I'm not asking you to be the one to move here, but I want to lay out my case and explain why I think it's important to focus on Plan targets this quarter and put a lot of dice into them, before we continue negotiations.

...

Steak and Tendrils and Roses Too roll enough Military dice that we still have a reasonable chance of finishing the Plan goals, but both set us up to need to overcommit heavily to dice on multiple mandatory projects in Q4 to get acceptably high certainty of success. Squeezing in enough dice to do a Zone Armor factory (realistically, either two in Q3 and 1-2 in Q4, or just four at once in Q4) isn't likely to happen alongside of that, unless we get a very, very generous Free dice allocation to Military in Q3 or Q4... which I am not expecting.

Given that we just now had a very intense conversation about the need to deploy Ground Force Zone Armor, that concerns me. Especially if the tendril project gets finished in 2061, because then we also have less money to fund 20 R/die projects to build the Zone Armor factories in 2062, delaying things further.
 
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What are the chances we get an option to increase our budget share back up to 30% ?

Yeah we will still lose money but not as much. And if we've taken efforts to improve income before then having the option to increase it seems more likely.
 
Given that we just now had a very intense conversation about the need to deploy Ground Force Zone Armor, that concerns me. Especially if the tendril project gets finished in 2061, because then we also have less money to fund 20 R/die projects to build the Zone Armor factories in 2062, delaying things further.
Actually, we only need Ground Force Zone Armor factories this year if we plan to go into red zones immediately next year - with how tight things currently are, I can easily see us deploying tiberium claws this year and using vein mines to restore our income next year while deploying zone armor factories to prepare for somewhat later push instead.
 
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What are the chances we get an option to increase our budget share back up to 30% ?

Yeah we will still lose money but not as much. And if we've taken efforts to improve income before then having the option to increase it seems more likely.
It's likely possible, if at a high PS cost. We do know that we can spin off some of our current expenses (subsidies, Forgotten, etc.) with some PS, and those actions will probably be more reasonably priced.

I'm hoping that the more we increase our income beyond the plan goals, the lower the PS costs for those actions will be.
 
We will get to fucking space and have spaceforce asking for vacuum sealed zone armour and people will be saying "They can make do with spaceships." At this rate.
 
Also, I feel it needs pointing out that Extra-Large Food Stockpiles really needs to be pushed this turn. IIRC, previous stockpile actions have added +4 Stored Food per turn up to the limit for that stockpile. If that continues, we would need Q2-Q4 in order to get the +12 Stored Food for this option.
You can take relief in the fact that all front-running plans take the ELFS action this quarter. Barring a truly bizarre fluke, I expect it to be accomplished in Q2. My own plan, for instance, does ELFS and throws enough dice at the storehouses to be absolutely sure of clearing one phase, giving us +14/20 Stored Food. This positions us to either finish the last three phases of storehouses next turn and then scrape by on Ranching Domes before the end of the year, or to do a single phase of E-CRP in Infrastructure, easily finish a single phase of storehouses, and have time to do Ranching Domes, Vertical Farming Phase 2, and quite possibly something else tasty.

I wonder if we could get options to use BZ MARV hubs for food stockpiles if we completed them. It might work out a bit better than our current strategic stockpiles increasing progress issue. Well... in the future. No way we'd find out this Plan.
As you allude to, there are no Blue Zone MARV hubs at this time and we can't reasonably expect to finish them in time with everything else going on. Also, even a single MARV hub is much harder to build than an entire global network of storehouses, so each MARV hub would have to store a truly prodigious amount of food to make much of a difference. I like the idea of storing food caches in a variety of locations, but I think that's more "baked into the existing action" than some kind of radical new idea.

What are the chances we get an option to increase our budget share back up to 30% ?

Yeah we will still lose money but not as much. And if we've taken efforts to improve income before then having the option to increase it seems more likely.
I'm sure. At the same time, we're going to have to burn Political Support for it at this rate either way, so it's unclear whether the savings will justify the results in terms of "ability to get our goals done."

Actually, we only need Ground Force Zone Armor factories this year if we plan to go into red zones immediately next year - with how tight things currently are, I can easily see us deploying tiberium claws this year and using vein mines to restore our income next year while deploying zone armor factories to prepare for somewhat later push instead.
There is likely to be a considerable lag time (2-4 quarters) between when the first Zone Armor factory comes online and when ZOCOM feels ready to go. New Ground Force units will have to be trained and prepared to take over from ZOCOM units.

I'm already assuming we're going to go on a vein mining kick for our initial income surge, given the groundswell of opposition to doing even a single border offensive at the present moment. The question is whether ZOCOM is ready for us to make a push in 2062Q2-Q3, or more like 2063Q1 or later... Because we won't have a lot of money left over to spam Zone Armor factories in 2062Q1-Q2, so we need to plan ahead.

It's likely possible, if at a high PS cost. We do know that we can spin off some of our current expenses (subsidies, Forgotten, etc.) with some PS, and those actions will probably be more reasonably priced.

I'm hoping that the more we increase our income beyond the plan goals, the lower the PS costs for those actions will be.
Here's hoping, but I'm seriously worried that the opposite will happen- that we'll overfulfill our Plan commitment for income by 200 RpT or more, get a pat on the back and a "well done" from Parliament, and then be expected to go make bricks without straw because we were so helpful about handing all the straw over last year.

We will get to fucking space and have spaceforce asking for vacuum sealed zone armour and people will be saying "They can make do with spaceships." At this rate.
My plan is aggressively centered around clearing out mandatory military priorities so we have room to actually choose some non-mandatory projects in Q3 and Q4. More so than any other with the arguably exception of tenchifew's variant of my own plan.

At this point, I am prioritizing Zone Armor factories alongside the very low-dice Bogatyr project as the number one contenders for the use of that wiggle room.

If my plan wins, my Q3 plan will contain at least 2-3 dice worth of Zone Armor deployment efforts, depending on how the dice play out, as will my Q4 plan.

That is all I know.
 
I'm hoping that the more we increase our income beyond the plan goals, the lower the PS costs for those actions will be.
Here's hoping, but I'm seriously worried that the opposite will happen- that we'll overfulfill our Plan commitment for income by 200 RpT or more, get a pat on the back and a "well done" from Parliament, and then be expected to go make bricks without straw because we were so helpful about handing all the straw over last year.
Having worked with bureaucrats on redistribution of governmental grants before I sadly see Simon's variant as far more true to my experiences than Rakuhn's.
 
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Here's hoping, but I'm seriously worried that the opposite will happen- that we'll overfulfill our Plan commitment for income by 200 RpT or more, get a pat on the back and a "well done" from Parliament, and then be expected to go make bricks without straw because we were so helpful about handing all the straw over last year.
Having worked with bureaucrats on redistribution of budgets before I sadly see Simon's variant as far more true to my experiences, then Rakuhn's.
If this was the Soviet plan quest, I'd definitely agree with you on that. But I think our parliament has so far shown itself to be made of more reasonable, co-operative people.

We just got a partial PS rebate for seizing the chips during the war now that the war is over, and they saw that our action was more justified than they had assumed. And Litinov appreciated our help in completing her goals so much that she has been covering for Seo for years now.

These aren't memetic bureaucrats. They are people, and we're all on the same team. They haven't taken undue advantage of us yet.

I'd rather extend trust, and see if that trust is respected, rather than automatically assume that they won't deal with us in good faith.
 
If this was the Soviet plan quest, I'd definitely agree with you on that. But I think our parliament has so far shown itself to be made of more reasonable, co-operative people.

We just got a partial PS rebate for seizing the chips during the war now that the war is over, and they saw that our action was more justified than they had assumed. And Litinov appreciated our help in completing her goals so much that she has been covering for Seo for years now.

These aren't memetic bureaucrats. They are people, and we're all on the same team. They haven't taken undue advantage of us yet.

I'd rather extend trust, and see if that trust is respected, rather than automatically assume that they won't deal with us in good faith.
It's not even a good faith/bad faith thing.

It's just that I'm pretty sure we can hand them any plausible amount of money and they will assume "aha, more magic rock money thanks to all that Scrin technology you've been working on" and take it with a smile and a pat on the head, and then go on to do pretty much the same things that they would have done anyway. There's a lot of people who don't know or understand the details of how Treasury brings in all this magic rock money, and are just glad that it does... but not so glad that they really want us centrally planning the toothbrushes.

The political impetus behind the likely effort to push us down to 25% of budget for our starting income in 2062 is coming from a completely different place that has nothing to do with whether we bring in roughly 800 or roughly 900 RpT of magic rock money after promising 700. Namely, the widespread belief that quality of life needs to rise, that the private (or co-op) sector is stagnant, and that the solution to both is to reduce Treasury's share of the 2062 starting budget.

These are reasonable people we're dealing with; they're not stabbing us in the back. They just don't have much reason to know or care about the details of how we work our magic. As a side effect, they will short us on the seed money we need to make that magic flourish without much of a second thought unless we raise a stink about it (that is, expend Political Support).
 
With no one besides Simon giving more support to the proposed changes, and also no one objecting either, I've decided to just go ahead and implement @Simon_Jester and @Crazycryodude's suggestions into my plan. Those changes being moving a die form Lasers to Tendrils for a much better chance of completing the project this turn, and switching a die Wood research to the Department of Consumer Industrial Development for the constant +Consoom income/narrative. (Unfortunately, this also meant switching a die from YZ Fortresses to BZ Apartments.) Here's the updated plan:
[X] Plan Steak and Tendrils
-[X] Infrastructure 6/6 dice 85R
--[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 6+7) (Updated) 0/320 4 dice 40R 71% (99% Phase 6)
--[X] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 156/200 1 die 30R 100%
--[X] Bureau of Arcologies (Updated) 1 Infra die -15R auto
-[X] Heavy Industry 5/5 +2 Free dice 170R
--[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 8) 243/300 2 dice 40R 100%
--[X] Crystal Beam Industrial Laser Deployment 51/600 4 dice 80R (4/7 median)
--[X] Isolinear Chip Foundry Anadyr 258/320 1 die 50R 83%
-[X] Light and Chemical Industry 5/5 dice 60R
--[X] Chemical Fertilizer Plants (Phase 2) 276/300 1 die 15R 100%
--[X] Civilian Drone Factories 104/380 3 dice 30R 24%
--[X] Department of Consumer Industrial Development (New) 1 L&CL die -15R auto
-[X] Agriculture 4/4 +2 Free dice 90R
--[X] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 4+5) 75/280 2 dice 20R 18% (Phase 4 100%)
--[X] Ranching Domes 0/250 3 dice 60R 42%
--[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 3) (Updated) 85/175 1 die 10R 50%
--[X] Extra Large Food Stockpiles 1 Erewhon die auto
-[X] Tiberium 7/7 +1 Free dice 240R
--[X] Harvesting Tendril Deployment (Phase 2) (Updated) 74/750 8 dice 240R 75%
-[X] Orbital 6/6 + 2 Free dice 160R
--[X] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 5) 348/1535 7 dice 140R (7/14.5 dice median)
--[X] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 2) 11/115 1 die 20R 38%
-[X] Services 5/5 dice 180R
--[X] Professional Sports Programs 102/250 2 dice 20R 70%
--[X] Pinhole Portal Early Primitive Prototype Construction 56/180 1 die 100R 24%
--[X] NOD Research Initiatives 0/200 2 dice 60R 32%
-[X] Military 8/8 dice 145R
--[X] Zone Defender Revision 0/40 1 die 15R 100%
--[X] Bogatyr Research Projects (Updated) 0/110 1 die 30R 37%
--[X] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 3) 0/200 2 dice 30R 23%
--[X] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Newark) 0/240 3 dice 60R 54%
--[X] Mastodon Heavy Assault Walker Deployment 113/225 1 die 10R 30%
-[X] Bureaucracy 4/4 dice
--[X] Conduct Civil Satisfaction Surveys DC 90/120/150/180, DC 180 4 dice 98%

1130R/1130R 7/7 Free Dice 1/1 Erewhon Die
 
[X] Plan Steak and Tendrils
[x] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October with more Bogatyr and all dice activated
[X] Plan Attempting To Be Done By October
 
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These are reasonable people we're dealing with; they're not stabbing us in the back. They just don't have much reason to know or care about the details of how we work our magic. As a side effect, they will short us on the seed money we need to make that magic flourish without much of a second thought unless we raise a stink about it (that is, expend Political Support).
Or we could just promise them to give them all the grants , cap goods and loans they need to get the private co-op sector going full throttle so long as they give us the funds to do so (40% or higher) , they give us what we want and we give them what they want , plus it will be a net positive on the action economy as stuff like ranching domes and civilian cars along with other things of that nature get done be themselves leaving us free to focus on big picture things without anyone bothering us about inane shit like quality of life since that is being taken care off by all those co-ops
 
The rest of GDI needs money. We need money. Everybody needs money.

Right now, we have (relative to our needs) lots of money. The rest of GDI is hard up for money.

In 2062Q1, Parliament takes about half our money and gives it to the rest of GDI. This hopefully improves GDI's situation, but it knocks us down much harder than it lifts everyone else up. Our budget is cut in half to increase their budget by 50%, and those are not equivalent. And that's fine! But it means we're suddenly knocked down to a level that makes us relatively worse off than the other departments are now. And yet, Parliament isn't going to tell us to quit our jobs- our jobs as they are presently defined- and take the year off for lack of funds.

Parliament doesn't take half our money and gives it to the rest of GDI. Parliament looks at GDI's revenues and distributes the budget according to what Parliament thinks is most optimal. We may disagree about whether or not it is most optimal, but Parliament is not required to care, and Parliament is also not stupid. If we've got 100 RpT just waiting for a minimal cash infusion to be available to the Treasury you can bet that Parliament is going to presume it can take another 100 RpT off the Treasury budget without issue, because the Treasury is ready to go and grow its income stream with 100 RpT in Q1.

If you want a Reallocation where the Parliament is likely to leave a lot of money with the Treasury, the best bets are being able to point out increasing revenues is going to be hard, and already having a massive revenue stream to distribute.

Nobody's gonna be happy if (as has happened before) we effectively do nothing with Agriculture and very little with Services for a whole year because those areas are "optional" and we don't have the money to go around. Nobody's gonna be happy if in 2063 Gideon pops a nuclear missile off at North Boston and vaporizes it because we couldn't afford to build the SADN system. Nobody's gonna be happy if we're cramming refugees into the shittiest housing left because it's all we can find, or standing around scratching our heads trying to figure out how to hit an ambitious Capital Goods target.

And if you are worried about that, lobby for a larger share of the budget. It's not as if that'll be begrudged if the budget's big enough, whereas a small budget will be bitterly fought over.

Well, assuming there's no way in real life to sell the survivors of multiple apocalypses that the planned economy that lifted them most of the way out of the last apocalypse is in fact okay.

I suppose that's only happening because this is a game in your opinion, but it's not something so obviously wrong that you can just say "the rest of you are being unrealistic and it's morally wrong for us to want to continue the planned economy, instead of just staying in our lane and mining tiberium quietly." Which is very much the implication that comes out of your post for me and some of the others responding to it.

I see there's been a delivery of straw.

Okay, first, what would've happened following the resolution of the immediate economic emergency issues is that the Treasury's singular control of all projects would've been broken. Whether or not GDI would've stuck with a semi-planned economy I'm not sure, but it's quite possible. It'd just not have been the various (sub) departments of GDI's government not under Treasury control who would've taken over organizing the projects, rather than the Treasury. So it'd have been the Agricultural Department designing, siting, building and operating new farms on their own, rather than needing to ask the Treasury to plonk a few down, it'd have been Services figuring out what housing to build where, and what hospitals, clinics and medical advancements to push forwards. It'd have been Infrastructure that looked at the energy demands and put together the power plants and relays to fill demand, expanded the rail networks, improved harbour infrastructure and so on.

Second, it's not as the Treasury wouldn't have been busy hauling in an ever greater bounty of tiberium and processing it. The rest of GDI would look at the Treasury and keep yelling 'give us more money', because for the past decade GDI's budget and GDP has been kind of limited in comparison to the pre-TW3 economy. And us consistently growing the GDI population at a rate we cannot quite match with income does not help in that regard. There is a definite standard of living crisis ongoing right now, because GDI literally can't afford to invest as much in the current population per capita as it could previously.


Look, I'm not saying 'we should not have the power and influence we do', even though I believe that realistically that taking as many tasks out of the hands of the Treasury as possible is exactly what would've happened in real life, I have been saying 'we should be pushing towards funding the rest of GDI, and not just try to viciously defend our budget with whatever trick we can imagine'. The Treasury itself is not the GDI government. It's the money man making sure the rest of GDI has the money to do what it needs to do.

I think it's a bad idea to eat the seed corn, and I think that's what you're proposing to do. I get the logic, but we're really hard up for early 2062 funds here.

If things go broadly according to my hopes, we'll be able to release additional funds in mid-Plan after the Red Zone expansions can resume. We'll have a lot of options. But if we sign away those 75 RpT by hurrying on Tendrils, we're going to be stuck staring at the long list of stuff we're still, now, in this moment expected and unable to do for considerably longer than otherwise. No amount of funds disbursed to the general fund will change that.

Or we could build a couple of ZA factories, or make sure we have a large supply of CapGoods, and use those to do RZ Border Offensives, Tib Harvesting or BZ Vein Mining, which should on average get us 45, 60 and 75 RpT respectively on the seven dice we currently have. (RZ Border Offensives is inefficient because the average result using all current Tib Dice is 623, which is 2.5 phases of Border Offensives, if it was 3 phases it'd do 66.5 RpT), and if we do RZ Tib Harvesting we can expect 4 phases of Glacier Mining to be available and expect to complete 3 in a single turn with 7 dice, on average, providing 150 RpT.

Hell, if you really want us to get ready for a massive surge in tiberium based income, our best bet is to pound out ZA factories right now, so we can do RZ Harvesting or Border Offensives right now, and do either Glaciers or Super Glaciers in Q1 2062.
 
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