Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
[X] Plan Dawn of the Final Year
[X] Plan Dawn of the Final Year, Carrier Focus
[X] Plan Dawn of the Final Year, Carrier Focus
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think rolling zero Anadyr dice is a bad idea. From the sound of it, your plan is to roll two dice in Q2, then 1-2 dice in Q3 presumably, hopefully avoiding the need to roll excessive numbers of dice in Q4 to be absolutely sure it completes at the last minute, which would be a very bad outcome by wasting resources.
I think this is not a good choice.
There's a 21.2% chance under your plan that all three carrier yards complete, collectively burning 16 Energy. If that happens, then the fertilizer plants alone ensure that we will go into the negatives if the Phase 8 fusion reactors don't complete, let alone the other projects that are likely to collectively demand 2-4 Energy on top of that.
So, 7% chance of blackouts. I can see why you call it "not that bad," but if I were committed to your dice breakdown, I'd scrape one die each off of Dublin and New York and put them on Seattle, minimizing the risk of blackouts this turn and giving you time to ensure that the power plants finish.
Everything except the hallucinogen protections and Zone Defender is stuff we have to do, stuff that is just as mandatory as the Stored Food (which I put two Free dice on). We can't throw Free dice everywhere at once, and deliberately ignoring everything that isn't a Plan commitment as if there was literally no reason to do anything else isn't a good move either.
Much like how your plan completely casts aside the laser project and limits work on Anadyr in favor of putting four dice on the electric car factories.
So I think your critique is kind of inconsistent. You're talking about how I'm not putting enough effort into Plan goals, but you're neglecting Plan goals and the infrastructure required to make them happen yourself. I get that you're practically meme-planning here, but it's kind of hurty when you're criticizing me for not concentrating enough on key priorities when in some important areas, you're putting less effort on Plan goals than I am.
The bays were always intended as a "yeah, we'll fill these chunks in later after we've done the rest of the station" idea, I think.
I look forward to your analysis. I'm not a statistician myself, but I've spent a long time looking over plans like this over the past year, so if you have a strong argument for why either (1) slow-walking doesn't work, or (2) sprinting with multiple dice before you reach the point of project completion doesn't work, I'm going to be impressed.
Not quite as impressed as if you managed to prove "down is up" or "night is day," but close.
My plan puts six of the available seven Free dice into areas where Plan goals are being addressed, allowing me to roll nine Military dice on Plan goals, higher than most other plans on offer and enough to put us on or ahead of 'schedule' to finish by 2061Q4. Also allowing me to roll six Agriculture dice, all of them on the Plan goal. If this plan succeeds, expect to see Free dice continue to be invested in the key 'threatened' areas of Agriculture, Orbital, and Tiberium.
The problem is that we'll be counting on the 10 Energy from the laser project to pay for the Energy consumption of the stuff we built this turn... but we'll need something else to pay for the consumption of the stuff we build next turn, and that's going to include wanting to finish the Dublin yard and hopefully push another shipyard seriously, because we'll still have three left to finish even if Nagoya doesn't roll badly.
So we'd end up needing to surge Heavy Industry dice to get another fusion phase anyway, just in Q2 instead of Q1.
This is a very good point.
...
I was seriously considering such a change. Consider this a promise to do it soon.
You are not wrong. If I hear one or two other voices advocating for this, I'll make the change.
Would you support my plan if I made @aledeth 's proposed modifications to give my plan claws, at the cost of postponing Railgun Munitions for a single turn?
@Shaper47 , I appreciate your faith in me. How do you feel about the modifications above?
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
I'll go over the stats later. But there is also a possibility of 3 dice next turn. The 8% chance of completing on 2 dice isn't worth bothering with.
You've miscounted. The Carrier Yards only burn 15 Energy, and we have 4 in Reserve. Worst case scenario we just use up all the Reserve. 0 Chance of blackouts.
[X] Plan Attempting To Supply The Canned Beans
[X] Plan Dawn of the Final Year, Carrier Focus
[X] Plan Gives me Wood
[X] Plan: Day of the Tendril, Crystal Beam Industrial Carriers
[X] Plan Snappier Title
[X] Plan Canned Beans + Scrin Research
Honestly, I thought we had already gotten nod claw tech before now, though maybe that was a gacha result and not an actual dev/deploy result. I'm gonna have to change a couple designations on the style guide. On that note, anyone remember if the Rig or Pitbull got refitted as part of the URLS deployment, or are they still slinging the old designs? I think I'm going to have to make a second document tracking upgrades to vehicles in order to have a proper designation style guide at this rate. Plus another full read-through of the threadmarks. No way am I reading 1287+ pages of thread for non-threadmarked stuff.
--
The ground drones have me imagining GDI troopers with XCOM SHIVs battling Nod troopers with XCOM 2 drones. The future looks glorious.
--
I'm not a fan of doing the improved refining process development in the near future, because the last time we overhauled/modified the process, we needed to refit all of our refineries. We still haven't finished that refit.
Also not a fan of GD-3 development, given that it'll result in another mega project next to GFZA that'll be wanting to suck up mil dice and resources during the last year of the Plan. Honestly, I feel like we generally need to put the breaks on new Dev projects and actually clean out our backlog of deployment projects. How long has that Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment been sitting there at this point? Or the Tactical Ion Cannon network, or Orbital Defense Laser Satellite network... the Apollo factories....
Actually, let me check something. As of this turn:
Dev projects in Military: ~26 (not counting Zone Defender Revision)
Deploy/Refit/Yards: 12-14 (if you count GFZA as a project or not; some things might count as this but aren't obvious or been around long enough I forgot it had a Dev phase in front, like possibly OSRCT?)
[X] Plan Dawn of the Final Year, Carrier Focus
[X] Plan Gives me Wood
[X] Plan: Day of the Tendril, Crystal Beam Industrial Carriers
[X] Plan Snappier Title
[X] Plan Canned Beans + Scrin Research
I think at this point, the idea is the R boost from Tib tendrils would enable better dice options in later turns to compensate. Something something Nod claws synergy too. On Simon's plan at least, there's 4 free dice in Mil to yoink elsewhere because technically those dice aren't spent on anything we have to do (just really feel are required).
Honestly, I thought we had already gotten nod claw tech before now, though maybe that was a gacha result and not an actual dev/deploy result. I'm gonna have to change a couple designations on the style guide. On that note, anyone remember if the Rig or Pitbull got refitted as part of the URLS deployment, or are they still slinging the old designs? I think I'm going to have to make a second document tracking upgrades to vehicles in order to have a proper designation style guide at this rate. Plus another full read-through of the threadmarks. No way am I reading 1287+ pages of thread for non-threadmarked stuff.
--
The ground drones have me imagining GDI troopers with XCOM SHIVs battling Nod troopers with XCOM 2 drones. The future looks glorious.
--
I'm not a fan of doing the improved refining process development in the near future, because the last time we overhauled/modified the process, we needed to refit all of our refineries. We still haven't finished that refit.
Also not a fan of GD-3 development, given that it'll result in another mega project next to GFZA that'll be wanting to suck up mil dice and resources during the last year of the Plan. Honestly, I feel like we generally need to put the breaks on new Dev projects and actually clean out our backlog of deployment projects. How long has that Medium Tactical Plasma Weapon Deployment been sitting there at this point? Or the Tactical Ion Cannon network, or Orbital Defense Laser Satellite network... the Apollo factories....
Actually, let me check something. As of this turn:
Dev projects in Military: ~26 (not counting Zone Defender Revision)
Deploy/Refit/Yards: 12-14 (if you count GFZA as a project or not; some things might count as this but aren't obvious or been around long enough I forgot it had a Dev phase in front, like possibly OSRCT?)
Air Force has 3 deploy, 1 dev
Space Force has 2-3 deploy, maybe 1 dev
Ground Forces has 1-2 deploy, 7 dev (four are new vehicles or vehicle block upgrades)
Navy has 3 deploy, 3 dev
Steel Talons have 2 deploy, 6 dev (no surprise on the mad scientists)
ZOCOM has 0 deploy, 3 dev. (Not counting Zone Defender Revision as either)
General Military has 1 deploy, 5 dev (and 3 of the dev are Nod gacha tech).
After Plan Goals are completed:
AF: 3 deploy, 1 dev.
Space: 2 deploy, 1 dev (Bogatyr expires Q2 2062)
GF: 0-2 deploy, 6 dev (Railgun Munitions might add a deploy, plus if GFZA counts...)
Navy: 2 deploy, 3 dev (1 deploy if we get frigate yards done too)
Steel Talons: 1 deploy, 6 Dev
Space Force has 2-3 deploy, maybe 1 dev
Ground Forces has 1-2 deploy, 7 dev (four are new vehicles or vehicle block upgrades)
Navy has 3 deploy, 3 dev
Steel Talons have 2 deploy, 6 dev (no surprise on the mad scientists)
ZOCOM has 0 deploy, 3 dev. (Not counting Zone Defender Revision as either)
General Military has 1 deploy, 5 dev (and 3 of the dev are Nod gacha tech).
After Plan Goals are completed:
AF: 3 deploy, 1 dev.
Space: 2 deploy, 1 dev (Bogatyr expires Q2 2062)
GF: 0-2 deploy, 6 dev (Railgun Munitions might add a deploy, plus if GFZA counts...)
Navy: 2 deploy, 3 dev (1 deploy if we get frigate yards done too)
Steel Talons: 1 deploy, 6 Dev
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I just think our military goals are MUCH less urgent than our agriculture/Orbital situation, and I was part of a small cabal on the Discord who swore a blood oath to not vote for any plan with free dice on the military this turn. (there was no actual blood oath.) I also do the cars because I think it may have a much greater effect on the economy by giving people trucks and cars again than is reflected by things like the raw economic indicators, and like everyone else I am trying to save some dosh for my more exotic ideas. I would love to do a laser-rush plan or something else like that, but you yourself admitted that sometimes...car good.
Seriously Simon, we've done huge investments in the military and it's time to pull back and concentrate our efforts in other places. My major plan has 7/8 military dice on plan goals, and the last one is on finishing up something we started already so we can finally look around ourselves. My intentionally nutty plan still has six dice on our goals in the military, and while we are going to need to spend 12/20 of our HI dice on Anadyr/Lasers, I think we can easily get under that bar in the next couple of turns.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Less a requirement but also very desirable and important would be Light Combat Lasers, for a solid antimissile system.
Absolutely. I'm very keen on the other parts of your plan, it's just the lack of claws that's a deal breaker.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'm seeing a lot of plans that put 4 dice into Civilian Drone Factories. Thing is, 3 dice gets us a decent 24% completion chance, which is a 24% chance we can save that die to use somewhere else. And there are a couple of good 10R projects in LCL that that die could be used on this turn: Civilian Support Expansion is a cheap and easy way to give QOL to the new immigrants, and Artificial Wood Development... let me put it this way: GDI doesn't use cardboard. IRL, cardboard is used for 80% of all shipping packages, and 89% of corrugated cardboard is recycled. It's used everywhere because it's just an extremely useful and re-useable material. And that's just one of the many, many things GDI could use artificial wood for.
There's no pressing need to rush out the Civilian Drone Factories. Please consider moving that 4th die elsewhere.
There's no pressing need to rush out the Civilian Drone Factories. Please consider moving that 4th die elsewhere.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I wouldn't mind surging three Anadyr dice next turn (or this turn). But it seems very unlikely that we'll be able to muster the political will to do so when that's directly competing with the Scrin gacha for budget, even factoring in the +90 RpT from the tendril harvesters.
Well no, worst case is -5 Energy from everything else and -15 from the carrier yards. Only an 8% or so chance of that happening, and a 2.7% or so chance of it happening after the failure of the fusion plants consigns us to the negatives.
On the other hand, we're still looking at a much higher chance of being forced to tap the reserves, which just seems like a bad idea to me.
Some of the stuff under deployment is under deployment because we don't perceive it as being needed or responsive to a probable threat. For instance, OSRCT is getting funding this year and, realistically, orbital defense lasers aren't... because frankly, GDI is more worried about giving the Space Force the ability to put boots on the ground from orbit than it is about having laser guns in space.
Basically, my philosophy is that outside of Plan goals, we should deploy projects that we deem likely to solve our actual problems, and avoid deployments that solve a non-problem or aren't the best return on investment. Right now, our main problems are "risk of getting nuked," "ground forces are squishy," and "Navy is weak." The obvious solutions are SADN, Zone Armor, and naval projects, respectively. Deployment projects in other areas that aren't as critical are just gonna have to wait... And may even end up less important than a new development project that happens to specifically give us the thing we're going to need in order to get a key job done.
Because it's not about the ratio of deployments to developments.
It's about getting shit done and making Noddies go kaboom.
I don't think it's time yet.
[blinks fuzzily]
...Um... could you say what you just said but with more sentences so I understand what, or if, you're asking me to do?
Hm. Well, that makes it much more likely that I'll do it.
You can take it as a given that I'll be posting a revised version of Canned Beans that does this. Already told Doruma I would, even, if I recall correctly.
I haven't quite made up my mind whether to go for Civilian Support Expansion or Artificial Wood, but it'll probably be one or the other.
Also, I'm waiting on a bit more clarity about the "railgun ammo for claws" tradeoff idea, because I don't want to redo the plan again if I decide to make that change.
[X] Attempting To Supply The Canned Beans
- Location
- Mobile, Alabama
Man. How you can tell how bad earth is. We're messing with fake wood as opposed to planting trees.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
The quote was you agreeing with Buckler and Sparkle Shields being key to future weapons platforms. I was expanding on that, saying that to help with the missile swarms that are becoming more and more common, we should develop Light Combat Lasers, which are noted as being both offensive and defensive equipment, specifically for missiles on the defense. To expand farther, I'd also recommend Micro Fusion Cells, to make firing them easier on a vehicle's powerplant.
Now at the moment, I'm not asking for any of these to be added to the plan. I don't expect Shields to get development at all until the next plan, because I don't expect us to develop new vehicles any time soon. LCLs I'd like to develop this year, but I don't expect them either. The only thing I think will get developed this year are the MFCs, because that much energy in that small of a package is massively useful in many, many fields. The description itself mentions space power tools. But again, I don't think it needs to be in this plan, nor do I particularly want it right now. It's all stuff I want and think need, but not right now.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I'm kind of trying to get feedback on this before the plan has so many votes that I'd feel weird about editing it:
How would you feel about my sacrificing the die on, say, Hallucinogen Countermeasures (grudgingly) in exchange for a die on the popular harvesting claws project?
The problem is that there's a pretty high risk of any given tree uptaking a fleck of tiberium and turning into some kind of horror. Not inevitable, but a real danger. The only stuff we can really be sure is safe is the stuff we raised in a sealed environmental dome.
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[X] Attempting To Supply The Canned Beans
[X] Plan: Day of the Tendril, Crystal Beam Industrial Carriers
[X] Plan: Day of the Tendril, Crystal Beam Industrial Carriers
I'm okay with it.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
I know you're not asking me, but I'd much prefer holding off on Railgun Munitions then Hallucinations, because the Bogatyr is making me nervous about sabotage.
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Dawn of the Final Year
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I feel you.
On the other hand, Railgun Munitions actually does a nontrivial amount for our base security by making the heavy weapons on the Havocs and base defense guns more effective antipersonnel weapons, for what it's worth. And it's a Plan goal, so... yeah.
I dunno, I'm torn about it. I really have been a strong advocate of Hallucinogen Countermeasures ever since I saw the Remembrancers use them successfully in the raid that stole stabilizer blueprints for India. On the other hand, none of the things I could cut are things I want to cut.
...Actually, I think the one I'm most willing to sacrifice is the Defender revision. This is because:
1) We're fairly unlikely to do a Zone Armor factory in 2061Q2 in particular. Another one turn delay on the Defender refit is unlikely to make much difference.
2) The Defender refit doesn't directly do anything, while both Railgun Munitions and Hallucinogen Countermeasures are relatively likely to have immediate impact.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
I can understand the logic, but I would be sad to see Defender Revision go. Just because we have so much Red Zone stuff staring us down.
Also, they're Starbound. They are a minor party which got big, and their entire platfom is "spend more on Orbital". They would probably be satisfied by a plan of all our Free Dice going to the Orbital department, but only barely. And, of course, as a backbencher, their job is more-or-less to be the extremist that the party leadership says "hey, we can only barely rein them in, give us some bones to toss to them."
That's true, I suppose, but this way gives a turn to try to get next-gen Fusion plants ready. (I happen to believe that Sparkle shield tech would be nice but not necessary to have for that, so I'm okay with not getting every tech ready when it will be incorporated sooner or later.)
Also, "cabal" vastly overstates the cohesiveness of people on Discord.
I kinda want to get some Consumer Goods close-to-guaranteed to come out this turn, but I'll see if I can come up with a variant.
[X] Plan Gives me Wood
Infrastructure 6 dice +34 6 dice 80R
-[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 3+4+5) (Updated) 72/480 5 dice 50R 67%
-[X] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 92/200 1 die 30R 42%
Heavy Industry 5 dice + 2 Free dice 170R
-[X] Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development (New) 1 dice 20R 30%
-[X] Crystal Beam Industrial Laser Deployment (New) 5 dice 100R .08%
-[X] Isolinear Chip Foundry Anadyr 85/320 1 die 50R
Light and Chemical Industry 5 dice +24 5+1 dice 65R
-[X] Chemical Fertilizer Plants (Phase 2) 276/300 1 die 15R 100%
-[X] Civilian Drone Factories 104/380 4 dice 40R 73%
-[X] Artificial Wood Development (New) 0/60 1 die 10R 85%
Agriculture 4 dice + 3 free dice 80R
-[X] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 4+5) 75/280 3 dice 30R 74% (30% Phase 6)
-[X] Freeze Dried Food Plants 151/200? 1 die 20R 91%
-[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 2+3) 38/325 3 dice 30R 18%
Tiberium 7 dice + 1 Free Die +39 240R
-[X] Harvesting Tendril Deployment (Phase 1) 0/600 8 dice 240R 95%
Orbital Industry 6 dice +26 6 dice 120R
-[X] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 5) 102/1535 2 dice 40R
-[X] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1+2) 45/265 3 dice 60R 68%
-[X] Lunar Regolith Harvesting (Phase 2) 276/310 1 die 20R 100%
Services 5 dice +27 5 dice 145R
-[X] Professional Sports Programs 0/250 3 dice 30R 49%
-[X] Hallucinogen Development 0/60 1 die 15R 88%
-[X] Pinhole Portal Early Primitive Prototype Construction 56/180 1 die 100R 24%
Military 8 dice +26 8 dice 120R
-[X] Skywatch Telescope System 64/95 1 die 10R 100%
-[X] Railgun Munitions Development 38/60 1 die 10R 100%
-[X] Bogatyr Research Projects 0/120 1 die 30R 27%
-[X] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Dublin) 0/240 2 dice 40R 4%
-[X] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Nagoya) 171/240 1 die 20R 73%
-[X] Mastodon Heavy Assault Walker Deployment 0/225 20R 2 dice 20R 9.5%
Bureaucracy 4 dice +19 4 dice + Erewhon
-[X] Conduct Economic Census DC 100/150/200/250, DC 250 4+1 dice 92.5%
[X] Plan Gives me Wood, moar Consoom edition
Infrastructure 6 dice +34 6 dice 80R
-[X] Blue Zone Apartment Complexes (Phase 3+4+5) (Updated) 72/480 5 dice 50R 67%
-[X] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 1) 92/200 1 die 30R 42%
Heavy Industry 5 dice + 2 Free dice 170R
-[X] Improved Continuous Cycle Fusion Development (New) 1 dice 20R 30%
-[X] Crystal Beam Industrial Laser Deployment (New) 5 dice 100R .08%
-[X] Isolinear Chip Foundry Anadyr 85/320 1 die 50R
Light and Chemical Industry 5 dice +24 5+1 dice 65R
-[X] Chemical Fertilizer Plants (Phase 2) 276/300 1 die 15R 100%
-[X] Civilian Drone Factories 104/380 3 dice 30R 24%
-[X] Civilian Support Expansion (New) 0/250 1 die 10R
-[X] Artificial Wood Development (New) 0/60 1 die 10R 85%
Agriculture 4 dice + 3 free dice 80R
-[X] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 4+5) 75/280 3 dice 30R 74% (30% Phase 6)
-[X] Freeze Dried Food Plants 151/200? 1 die 20R 91%
-[X] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 2+3) 38/325 3 dice 30R 18%
Tiberium 7 dice + 1 Free Die +39 240R
-[X] Harvesting Tendril Deployment (Phase 1) 0/600 8 dice 240R 95%
Orbital Industry 6 dice +26 6 dice 120R
-[X] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 5) 102/1535 2 dice 40R
-[X] Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (Phase 1+2) 45/265 3 dice 60R 68%
-[X] Lunar Regolith Harvesting (Phase 2) 276/310 1 die 20R 100%
Services 5 dice +27 5 dice 145R
-[X] Professional Sports Programs 0/250 3 dice 30R 49%
-[X] Hallucinogen Development 0/60 1 die 15R 88%
-[X] Pinhole Portal Early Primitive Prototype Construction 56/180 1 die 100R 24%
Military 8 dice +26 8 dice 120R
-[X] Skywatch Telescope System 64/95 1 die 10R 100%
-[X] Railgun Munitions Development 38/60 1 die 10R 100%
-[X] Bogatyr Research Projects 0/120 1 die 30R 27%
-[X] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Dublin) 0/240 2 dice 40R 4%
-[X] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Nagoya) 171/240 1 die 20R 73%
-[X] Mastodon Heavy Assault Walker Deployment 0/225 20R 2 dice 20R 9.5%
Bureaucracy 4 dice +19 4 dice + Erewhon
-[X] Conduct Economic Census DC 100/150/200/250, DC 250 4+1 dice 92.5%
- Location
- MSC
[x] Attempting To Supply The Canned Beans
- Location
- The Underdark
Clowder, Glaring, or Pounce would probably be better words than cabal.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It'd just be coming back for another go in 2061Q2. It's too important to let fall off the docket entirely.