Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
[X] Plan Simon's but with plasma and railguns
Infrastructure 6/6 Dice 95 R
-[X] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 4) 128/325 (3 Dice, 45 R) (92% chance)
-[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6) 0/300 (2 Dice, 40 R) (2/4 median)
-[X] Indianapolis Reconstruction Surge 0/150 (1 Die + 1 Tib Die, 10 R) (82% chance)
Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice + 3 Free Dice + EREWHON 180 R
-[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 6) 30/300 (5 Dice, 100 R) (98.8% chance)
-[X] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 3) 352/600 (3 + E Dice, 80 R) (89% chance)
Light and Chemical Industry 5/5 Dice 110 R
-[X] Medical Supplies Factories 129/225 (2 Dice, 40 R) (95% chance)
-[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 1) 0/95 (1 Die, 30 R) (45% chance)
-[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 514/640 (2 Dice, 40 R) (81% chance)
Agriculture 4/4 Dice 40 R
-[X] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 2) 3/300 (4 Dice, 40R) (61% chance)
Tiberium 7/7 Dice 140 R
-[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 9) 2/325 (5 Dice, 100 R) (99% chance)
-[X] Harvesting Tendril Development 0/40 (1 Die, 30R) (100% chance)
-[X] Indianapolis Reconstruction Surge 0/150 (1 Die + 1 Infra Die, 10 R) (82% chance)
Orbital 6/6 Dice 120 R
-[X] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 2+3) 145/385 (6 Dice, 120 R) (99.99% chance of Phase 2, 2.3% chance of Phase 3)
Services 5/5 Dice 80 R, -5 RpT
-[X] Neural Interfaced Operating Theaters 122/160 (1 Die, 20 R) (100% chance)
-[X] Automatic Medical Assistants 0/300 (2 Dice, 40 R) (1/4 median)
-[X] Mind Shields Development 0/120 (2 Dice, 40 R) (92% chance)
-[X] Expand Resettlement Programs (automatic)
Military 8/8 Dice + 4 Free Dice 220 R
-[X] Shell Plants (Phase 6) 7/150 (2 Dice, 20 R) (72% chance)
-[X] Firehawk Wingmen Drones 0/450 (4 Dice, 80 R) (4/6 median)
-[X] Plasma Warhead Factory (Phase 1): 53/90 (1 Die, 20 R) (100% chance, 15% chance Phase 2)
-[X] Merchantman Carrier Conversions (High Commitment) 0/200 (1 Die, 20 R) (92% chance)
-[X] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Battleship Yards) 0/120 (2 Dice, 40 R) (87% chance)
-[X] Heavy Support Laser Development 0/50 (1 Die, 20 R) (90+ % chance)
-[X] Railgun Munitions Development 0/60 1 die 10R 87%
Bureaucracy 4/4 Dice, -20 RpT
-[X] Allocate Resources to Reconstruction Commissions (Aggressive, -20 RpT)
-[X] Request Reduction in Plan Commitments (3 Dice) (99.5/94.0/77.2/49.2% chance of successive DC's)
As the name says, this is Simon's plan, but drops the Shark Frigate to develop Railgun Munitions and finish the first round of Plasma Warheads.
Infrastructure 6/6 Dice 95 R
-[X] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 4) 128/325 (3 Dice, 45 R) (92% chance)
-[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 6) 0/300 (2 Dice, 40 R) (2/4 median)
-[X] Indianapolis Reconstruction Surge 0/150 (1 Die + 1 Tib Die, 10 R) (82% chance)
Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice + 3 Free Dice + EREWHON 180 R
-[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 6) 30/300 (5 Dice, 100 R) (98.8% chance)
-[X] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 3) 352/600 (3 + E Dice, 80 R) (89% chance)
Light and Chemical Industry 5/5 Dice 110 R
-[X] Medical Supplies Factories 129/225 (2 Dice, 40 R) (95% chance)
-[X] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 1) 0/95 (1 Die, 30 R) (45% chance)
-[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 514/640 (2 Dice, 40 R) (81% chance)
Agriculture 4/4 Dice 40 R
-[X] Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (Phase 2) 3/300 (4 Dice, 40R) (61% chance)
Tiberium 7/7 Dice 140 R
-[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 9) 2/325 (5 Dice, 100 R) (99% chance)
-[X] Harvesting Tendril Development 0/40 (1 Die, 30R) (100% chance)
-[X] Indianapolis Reconstruction Surge 0/150 (1 Die + 1 Infra Die, 10 R) (82% chance)
Orbital 6/6 Dice 120 R
-[X] Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (Phase 2+3) 145/385 (6 Dice, 120 R) (99.99% chance of Phase 2, 2.3% chance of Phase 3)
Services 5/5 Dice 80 R, -5 RpT
-[X] Neural Interfaced Operating Theaters 122/160 (1 Die, 20 R) (100% chance)
-[X] Automatic Medical Assistants 0/300 (2 Dice, 40 R) (1/4 median)
-[X] Mind Shields Development 0/120 (2 Dice, 40 R) (92% chance)
-[X] Expand Resettlement Programs (automatic)
Military 8/8 Dice + 4 Free Dice 220 R
-[X] Shell Plants (Phase 6) 7/150 (2 Dice, 20 R) (72% chance)
-[X] Firehawk Wingmen Drones 0/450 (4 Dice, 80 R) (4/6 median)
-[X] Plasma Warhead Factory (Phase 1): 53/90 (1 Die, 20 R) (100% chance, 15% chance Phase 2)
-[X] Merchantman Carrier Conversions (High Commitment) 0/200 (1 Die, 20 R) (92% chance)
-[X] Escort Carrier Shipyards (Battleship Yards) 0/120 (2 Dice, 40 R) (87% chance)
-[X] Heavy Support Laser Development 0/50 (1 Die, 20 R) (90+ % chance)
-[X] Railgun Munitions Development 0/60 1 die 10R 87%
Bureaucracy 4/4 Dice, -20 RpT
-[X] Allocate Resources to Reconstruction Commissions (Aggressive, -20 RpT)
-[X] Request Reduction in Plan Commitments (3 Dice) (99.5/94.0/77.2/49.2% chance of successive DC's)
As the name says, this is Simon's plan, but drops the Shark Frigate to develop Railgun Munitions and finish the first round of Plasma Warheads.
- Location
- USA
Um... what?
- Location
- Wall Gazing
Yeah I should have clarified, that list of four are all the problematic spots in the Plan, I don't think we need to renegotiate Lunar mines or the Cap Good target, but if we wanted to they are on the table.
- Location
- Africa
we need to massively invest in the navy as early as possible because it takes years for the shipyards to produce the tonnage needed , we need our shipyards done years in advance , So I believe dropping any naval actions at this point is a mistake
NHO
Dumb is a state of existence
- Location
- ᓚᘏᗢ
This:
We can either star using dice for passive income or we will be forever hobbled by being control freaks
- Location
- USA
OK but that is not at all like
I get that we will need to start trading in dice but that's more a beginning of next plan thing when we won't have the resources needed for high end projects and can't afford all our dice anyway.
Not when we are in the middle of a war with lots of resources and not enough dice and a cap goods target to hit.
You were making it sound like something horrible was going to happen if we didn't lose dice now and that was the opposite of my take on it. We were actually told it's not expected that we will go for it till later.
I get that we will need to start trading in dice but that's more a beginning of next plan thing when we won't have the resources needed for high end projects and can't afford all our dice anyway.
Not when we are in the middle of a war with lots of resources and not enough dice and a cap goods target to hit.
You were making it sound like something horrible was going to happen if we didn't lose dice now and that was the opposite of my take on it. We were actually told it's not expected that we will go for it till later.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The problem is twofold. One part is total expenditure- given the naval situation, it's a display of bad faith to not put forth a major effort to create the infrastructure the Navy needs to resolve its problems. That's inherently a multi-turn project requiring sustained heavy investment.
The second part is that these yards are big. It's super wasteful to try to slam them out in a single turn in a hurried manner, and much more dice-efficient to have two or three yards "cooking" at once to the tune of 1-2 dice per turn each. Since we're hard pressed for Military dice, the efficiency matters.
But these aren't all-defeating problems; if you want to put up a variant that does as you describe, I might well approval-vote it.
I am already supporting it. See the current iteration of my plan draft.
I am supportive of this. I don't say we can fully close the pocket, but we can at least reasonably hope to, say, take Florida, which would improve the naval situation in the region quite a bit.
I also agree about the energy thing. I think it's a good idea... for 2062Q1 or so.
We have enough Infrastructure dice to finish either a phase of railroads or a phase of fortress towns, but not both. We have to pick one or the other to prioritize in this turn. My plan prioritizes railroads because supply lines are a big part of keeping the war effort going at a distance. It does, you will note, spend enough on fortresses that we will be able to relatively easily finish off a phase of fortresses next turn.
Meanwhile, we'll be studding the forward countryside with little tiberium-harvesting outposts, many of which act as strongpoints for the military as well.
I do not agree with doing this because I think the Navy's need is urgent enough that it demands a more serious effort from us, in which we cannot just stop building frigate yards at any point in the near future.
Among other things, because I'm pretty sure the Nod naval raiding won't stop at the end of the Steel Vanguard offensives; if anything it may intensify because why wouldn't it? We're going to have to stop those raids by force, probably some time in 2061-62, which is about when the Sharks hit the water if we move quickly.
Thank you. The problem is that chasing that "chance of Fortress Towns" is really dice-expensive and arguably not worth it. My plan does position us to finish the project next turn unless we roll like a 4 and a 8 on the dice or something.
Think that's gonna have to wait until mid-2061 when we're wrapping things up. We really, really shouldn't need many Free dice to finish off the space plan as long as we don't divert effort and choose to be efficient.
The die that was budgeted for that went to Indianapolis, which helps the same things. I didn't want to detract effort from Yellow Zone Harvesting because I intend for more progress to take place on that and am hoping to complete at least two more phases of it before Steel Vanguard peters out entirely.
Orbital is tough but we can do it. Capital Goods, likewise.
Arcologies aren't really a problem. Especially with Karachi off the table, we can just slam out a phase in 2061 and it's no problem. There's other stuff we might want to do instead, but nothing (including rails and fortresses) that we'll need to do instead.
Consumer goods is easy-ish because there are several paths to getting it; we can pick and choose what we invest in to make it happen.
Caffeinated kudzu- our plan commitment is up through Phase 2, which we're probably gonna finish this turn or next depending on whose plan wins and how lucky we are. Phase 3 would require serious extra investment... which is problematic because of the Stored Food requirement.
The big ones we need to renegotiate are Karachi (logistically impossible in 2061) and the Stored Food requirement (which we CAN meet... but if we're gonna meet it, we need to know NOW, and we're going to have to invest a lot of Agriculture dice into it). Renegotiation of Stored Food will probably entail some combination of "walk the commitment back to increased food production surpluses" and "walk the commitment forward to a future point in time some time in 2062-63."
That is a gross misrepresentation of "Plan MORE POWER But No Tiberium Power," which specifically walks the renegotiation action back to three dice instead of four because of desire to avoid overkill.
Also, the reason we fall to 44 PS is because we have to burn -10 PS in the same turn because of the conversion carriers. We have no goddamn clue what happens if we only hit the first DC, and since we do have at least two Plan goals we would really like to renegotiate, we don't want to find out, which is a fairly likely outcome of only rolling two dice.
This has already been extensively mathed out. Exhaustively. Would you like a link to my thousand-word analysis on the subject? I can do it this afternoon.
As to the military goals you cite, the problem is that we have other quasi-mandatory military goals like "military shipyards, lots of 'em." Also we are really really gonna be under pressure to start supplying power armor to Ground Forces as soon as the pressure to build shipyards slackens a bit.
Rare metals counts.
The Capital Goods target isn't a problem because Nuuk Phase 4 covers the entirety of it, so all we need is a single (admittedly large, roughly fifteen-die) Heavy Industry project. It's likely to require Free dice when combined with our need for fusion energy, but we can do it.
The Stored Food and Karachi targets are the ones that really need renegotiations.
Also, I find the way you say "yours" kind of frustrating, because it makes you sound as if you think you're parachuting into the thread from outside and seeing all kinds of stuff we don't. You are part of 'us.' Welcome to the club.
With that said... I have no idea what your math is for Logistics. We have huge surpluses that are only being run down to medium surpluses because of all the shit involved in fighting an ongoing offensive and heavy Nod raiding. It's +20 after the maluses from those sources; without that, it'd be +37. Building the ICS, plus obsessive railroad construction since the offensive started, is the reason for that; we've done something like +28 or +32 Logistics worth of Infrastructure projects in the past year and a half or so.
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So the two leading plans are:
Plan Rebuild and Rearm
and
Plan MORE POWER But No Tiberium Power
Differences:
I haven't checked the resource or indicator consumption.
Of the two, I'd generally say that Plan Rebuild and Rearm is more focused on development projects (tarberries, industrial lasers), immediate military aims and goals, while being more willing to risk noncompletion, whereas Plan MORE Power and No Tiberium Power is more focused on increasing our indicators and guaranteeing the completion of high impact projects.
Also, in the future, please keep the projects in the same order as they are presented in the threadmark. It makes comparisons between plans easier.
Plan Rebuild and Rearm
and
Plan MORE POWER But No Tiberium Power
Differences:
No differences.
| Plan Rebuild and Rearm | Plan MORE POWER But No Tiberium Power |
| Crystal Beam Industrial Laser Development (+1 die, +10R, 70% CoS) | Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (+1 Die, +20 R, 98.8 % vs 86% CoS) |
| Division of Alternative Energy (+1 E die, +10 R, auto-success) | Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (+1 Die, +1 E Die, +40R, 89% vs 4% Cos) |
| Plan Rebuild and Rearm | Plan MORE POWER But No Tiberium Power |
| Bergen Superconductor Foundry (+1 die, +30R, 95% vs 45% CoS) | Medical Supplies Factories (+1 Die, +20 R, 95 % vs 44% CoS) |
| Plan Rebuild and Rearm | Plan MORE POWER But No Tiberium Power |
| Tarberry Development (+1 die, +20R, 100% CoS) | Wadmalaw Kudzu Plantations (+2 Dice, +20 R, 61 % vs 0% CoS) |
| Freeze Dried Food Plants (+1 die, +20R, 56% CoS) |
| Plan Rebuild and Rearm | Plan MORE POWER But No Tiberium Power |
| Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (+1 die, +15 R, 100% CoS) | Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (+1 die, +20R, 99% vs 80% CoS) |
| Plan Rebuild and Rearm | Plan MORE POWER But No Tiberium Power |
| Lunar Rare Metals Harvesting (+2 die, +40 R, 58% CoS) | Lunar Heavy Metals Mines (+2 dice, +40R, 99.99% vs 58% CoS 1 phase, 2.3% of 2 phases) |
| Plan Rebuild and Rearm | Plan MORE POWER But No Tiberium Power |
| Automatic Medical Assistants (+1 die, +20R, 0% vs 0%) | Expand Resettlement Programs (+1 die, +5R, autosuccess) |
| Plan Rebuild and Rearm | Plan MORE POWER But No Tiberium Power |
| Plasma Warhead Factory (+1 die, +10 R, 100% CoS 1 phase, 15% CoS 2 phases) | Firehawk Wingmen Drones (+2 dice, +40 R) |
| Shark Class Frigate Shipyards (+2 dice, +40 R, 64% vs 0% CoS) |
Of the two, I'd generally say that Plan Rebuild and Rearm is more focused on development projects (tarberries, industrial lasers), immediate military aims and goals, while being more willing to risk noncompletion, whereas Plan MORE Power and No Tiberium Power is more focused on increasing our indicators and guaranteeing the completion of high impact projects.
Also, in the future, please keep the projects in the same order as they are presented in the threadmark. It makes comparisons between plans easier.
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Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
I'm aware, but it's only the one yard. It's not like I've drop a lot of other naval projects. I fully agree both carriers and the naval lasers are a must, but if we don't plan on doing Karachi soon a frigate yard can wait. Meanwhile, better weapons help right now, and we do want to keep pushing on other fronts.
Already did that.
Also, @Simon_Jester :
You might want to recount your service dice, and I believe you have a typo in the merchantmen carrier conversion progress.
You might want to recount your service dice, and I believe you have a typo in the merchantmen carrier conversion progress.
I dislike Rearm splitting between fortress towns and railways, seems like in trying to do both you'll accomplish little of value short term where railways would be very useful, but also dislike POWER's military spending and not going maximum on the rebuild initiative. I think I'm just gonna abstain from voting this time.
@Ithillid confirmed that the Division of Alternative Energy -RpT costs go into play immediately (good news is that so does the +3 energy, and not the additional -1 HI die), as does the Allocate Resources to Reconstruction Commissions.
So @Void Stalker, you'll want to rebalance your plan for an additional 40 Resources in cost.
So @Void Stalker, you'll want to rebalance your plan for an additional 40 Resources in cost.
- Location
- USA
Thanks for the heads up, dropped to aggressive and swapped a fortress die to railroad to get the other 5R.
I think all of mine should be in order, did I have any out of place?
Glad to be of use. I like the infra switch.
Nah, you were good, AFAICT. I just didn't want to call out anyone in particular in an analysis post, especially since it is something that just about all planmakers will do at some point.
- Location
- USA
Infra switch was probably the easiest way to save 5R I needed to get in budget. And I try to go in order because it makes it easier for me to look back and forth.
- Location
- USA
[X] Plan Rebuild and Rearm
I think that the MORE POWER plan is going to have to drop a die from services.
What are people's thoughts on
2 dice on Automatic Medical Assistants (no chance of success this turn, but sets us up for an easier completion in future turns)
vs
1 die on Expand Resettlement Programs (autosuccess), and 1 die on Automatic Medical Assistants?
I suspect that I prefer the latter, but my imagination is failing me as to what the refugee situation will look like with and without the resettlement program.
What are people's thoughts on
2 dice on Automatic Medical Assistants (no chance of success this turn, but sets us up for an easier completion in future turns)
vs
1 die on Expand Resettlement Programs (autosuccess), and 1 die on Automatic Medical Assistants?
I suspect that I prefer the latter, but my imagination is failing me as to what the refugee situation will look like with and without the resettlement program.
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