- Location
- USA
I have no issue with it. I'm neutral on either option so long as the dice remain focused on cap goods in some way.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
I have no issue with it. I'm neutral on either option so long as the dice remain focused on cap goods in some way.
Crafter of War
The Dorf
- Location
- Bend
...Um did we read the same update?
He's currently putting down uprisings, not joining hands with other warlords.
Enerael
We Shall Wake to Sanity
Hm, interesting. Looks like the refits are better than I thought.
However, I question why do them now? We have a large processing buffer right now, and perhaps more importantly we will have a large buffer in the future also due to the processing required by our Plan, so the -250 processing while working on them is not an issue at all.
We are still R limited and will need a lot more still when Philly comes up, and there is also the WFR +MilDice, so I do not see why we should be doing this now instead of more mining stuff.
Btw I recommend putting three Dice on Offshore Mining, despite the two Dices 22% chance of success, because as you might have noticed with Nod pressure and ZOCOM preferring that we don't expand our Red Zone mining ops and Vein Mines CapG cost we currently lack a good mining action, so it would be very useful for Offshore Mining to be available for a large investment next turn. Assuming that the experiment works out well of course but that does seem likely.
Well yes but by how much would putting a single die on the long demanded Kudzu postpone that last phase? 1 Q if that. Do we really need that +1 Food and +1 ConGoods for the Plan that finishing it one Q later would cost us by then?
Also a possibility I suppose.
Tissue Replacement is not quite the same as the Tib Infusion, its cloning tissue, manufacturing organs basically. Tib infusion needs human trials and the long term consequences are not certain given our limited understand of Tib and human bodies complexity so in retrospect the wait is obviously necessary, but if you can grow a say heart then unless its made abnormal through the growing process somehow than long term testing, in a world where we design Cruisers or space ships in 3 month at least, does not seem like something that would need wait time. By not researching so many projects in one turn you can also save up 10-20 Rs and do a multi research turn later when we have more mining and thus resources for it.
How will this work with overflow, if we put 2 mil dice and a tiberium dice on Reclamator Hub Red Zone 7 South (Progress 51/105) will the tiberium dice overflow and start a second hub(or even complete a second hub)?
- Location
- The Underdark
Yes. That is how it works.
- Location
- canada
NO! That is a HUGE change, and one that should definitely need a new plan. It's the only reason I even voted for your plan. There are plenty of plans with BIH already, so if people wanted that then they should vote for plans with it vs changing yours.
Alternatively people could just as easily make an edited version of your plan with the altered changes. But changing a plan that is winning when it's that much different from others shouldn't be done after this many people have already voted for it.
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each stage only gives 50 processing cap so you are comparing 600 processing from new plants with 250 from refits. To get a better comparison take 12 stages of refits as those give the same amount of processing as one stage of new plants and then the refit takes 1200 progress at 20R
Er probably not cuz that's a whole different investment plan for Capital goods. I liked Nuuk more so I voted for your plan too.
speaking of which
[X] Plan A New Something Something
[X] Plan Derpy
[X] Plan Stocking the Piles 1.4:
[X] Plan Factories
more plans with Nuuk. sweet.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Might not have been in the update, but Ithillid confirmed it's happening.
Which is to say, if left to his own devices he will get his underlings under control and snowball, but if we punch him hard enough now and combine it with the carrot of BZ housing buildout and maybe eating some of his western YZ territory he may well lose everything - which is the point.
It lets us remove the obvious frontrunner AND send the message that getting too aggressive against GDI for status's sake can backfire. "Here is the line: like granger, if you toe it we will go back to making number go up. Cross it, and we come down on you like a ton of bricks."
Anyways, nobody's voted for my version of derpmind's plan yet, so I'll see about swapping out the nuuk dice for HI sectors in it.
Did he also say that he is the best guy to be in charge for us as well though?Might not have been in the update, but Ithillid confirmed it's happening.
Which is to say, if left to his own devices he will get his underlings under control and snowball, but if we punch him hard enough now and combine it with the carrot of BZ housing buildout and maybe eating some of his western YZ territory he may well lose everything - which is the point.
It lets us remove the obvious frontrunner AND send the message that getting too aggressive against GDI for status's sake can backfire. "Here is the line: like granger, if you toe it we will go back to making number go up. Cross it, and we come down on you like a ton of bricks."
Anyways, nobody's voted for my version of derpmind's plan yet, so I'll see about swapping out the nuuk dice for HI sectors in it.
There's no single "best" warlord, it's all pros and cons. I'd certainly prefer Krukov ascendant to Reynaldo or something, Krukov we can beat by throwing more tanks at so if you made me choose he's one of the better ones to be forced to reckon with - we win that fight eventually, even if it costs a lot of money and dice we're good at getting money and dice. But it's not like any of them will go particularly easy on us.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
???
I have no idea what you could mean by that. Why would we want Krukov in charge of anything? Why would we want any warlord in charge of Nod as a whole? The point is that I don't want anyone in charge of all of nod, or increasing swathes of nod. Keeping the status quo of nod divided demands it, and that status quo is what lets us Numbers Go Up at all.
His MO is a result of the resources he happens to have, which is a lack of shadow teams and a glut of GDI armor factories. He exploits this by getting extra glory from meeting GDI on its own terms and still kicking more ass than every other nod warlord has managed, which is why he's taken the lead in the Brotherhood Bowl. If he gets more resources, by say gobbling up other warlords like he's moving to do, he will become more dangerous accordingly.
Anyways, updated Plan Derpy Hitting Krukov With A Steel Chair Edition with HI sectors:
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No. There are much more projects need Capital goods. Nuuk is needed more.
There's a war looming and having our military factories refitted 6+ months earlier is the point of Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors over Nuuk. It doesn't matter how many robots we install in the aquaponics bays 2 years from now if we run out of Guardians and NOD comes to blow up all our farms in the meantime.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
HI sectors also produces capital goods, and more importantly it produces them in the quantity we actually need sooner. It takes 500 there versus nearly 1000 for nuuk.
- Location
- Earth
I am for the changing of Plan Derpy's change to BZIS.
This is plan Derpy with two changes the HI dice are on Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors and the die on refining has been replaced with one on Reclamator Hub Red Zone 7-South with the goal of completing two hubs this turn so we have somewhere for the overflow of the fleet construction to go.
[X] Plan Derpy with Reclamator Hub and Heavy Industrial zones
-[X] Infra 5/5 dice 70R
--[X] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 3) 302/650 4 dice 60R 33%
--[X] Communal Housing Experiments 72/140 1 die 10R 74%
-[X] Heavy Ind 4/4 dice 90R
--[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 3) 125/300 2 dice 40R 35%
--[X] Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors 0/500 2 dice 50R
-[X] L&CI 4/4 dice 80R
--[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 4/320 4 dice 80R 28%
-[X] Agri 3/3 dice 30R
--[X] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 2) 291/350 3 dice 30R 100% (3/6 median Stage 2+3)
-[X] Tiberium 6/6 dice 135R
--[X] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 5) 74/180 2 dice 50R 95%
--[X] Reclamator Hub Red Zone 7-South 51/105 1 die 99%
--[X] Offshore Tiberium Harvester Stations 0/200 2 dice 40R 10PS 28%
--[X] Improved Tiberium Containment Facilities Development 0/40 1 die 25R 100%
-[X] Orb Ind 5/5 +2 free dice 140R
--[X] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 5) 32/1425 7 dice 140R (7/20 median)
-[X] Services 4/4 65R
--[X] Green Zone Teacher Colleges 149/200 1 die 5R 86%
--[X] Tissue Replacement Therapy Development 0/60 1 die 20R 82%
--[X] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Development 0/60 1 die 20R 82%
--[X] Early Prototype General Artificial Intelligence Development 0/120 1 die 20R 22%
-[X] Military 6/6 +5 free dice 130R
--[X] Security Review
--[X] Reclamator Hub Red Zone 7-South 51/105 2 dice 40R 99%
--[X] Pacifier Mobile Artillery Vehicle Deployment 90/120 1 die 10R 100%
--[X] Tube Artillery Deployment 184/200 1 die 15R 100%
--[X] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 3/300 3 dice 30R 7%
--[X] Naval Defense Laser Refits 270/330 1 die 15R 74%
--[X] Havoc Scout Deployment Brest 0/110 1 die 10R 29%
--[X] Havoc Scout Deployment Seoul 0/110 1 die 10R 29% (50% at least one Havoc finishes)
-[X] Bureau 3/3
--[X] Security Review Military DC50 3 dice 100%
740R/740R 7/7 Free Dice
[X] Plan Derpy with Reclamator Hub and Heavy Industrial zones
-[X] Infra 5/5 dice 70R
--[X] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 3) 302/650 4 dice 60R 33%
--[X] Communal Housing Experiments 72/140 1 die 10R 74%
-[X] Heavy Ind 4/4 dice 90R
--[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 3) 125/300 2 dice 40R 35%
--[X] Blue Zone Heavy Industrial Sectors 0/500 2 dice 50R
-[X] L&CI 4/4 dice 80R
--[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 3) 4/320 4 dice 80R 28%
-[X] Agri 3/3 dice 30R
--[X] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 2) 291/350 3 dice 30R 100% (3/6 median Stage 2+3)
-[X] Tiberium 6/6 dice 135R
--[X] Red Zone Containment Lines (Stage 5) 74/180 2 dice 50R 95%
--[X] Reclamator Hub Red Zone 7-South 51/105 1 die 99%
--[X] Offshore Tiberium Harvester Stations 0/200 2 dice 40R 10PS 28%
--[X] Improved Tiberium Containment Facilities Development 0/40 1 die 25R 100%
-[X] Orb Ind 5/5 +2 free dice 140R
--[X] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 5) 32/1425 7 dice 140R (7/20 median)
-[X] Services 4/4 65R
--[X] Green Zone Teacher Colleges 149/200 1 die 5R 86%
--[X] Tissue Replacement Therapy Development 0/60 1 die 20R 82%
--[X] Advanced Electronic Video Assistant Development 0/60 1 die 20R 82%
--[X] Early Prototype General Artificial Intelligence Development 0/120 1 die 20R 22%
-[X] Military 6/6 +5 free dice 130R
--[X] Security Review
--[X] Reclamator Hub Red Zone 7-South 51/105 2 dice 40R 99%
--[X] Pacifier Mobile Artillery Vehicle Deployment 90/120 1 die 10R 100%
--[X] Tube Artillery Deployment 184/200 1 die 15R 100%
--[X] Shell Plants (Phase 4) 3/300 3 dice 30R 7%
--[X] Naval Defense Laser Refits 270/330 1 die 15R 74%
--[X] Havoc Scout Deployment Brest 0/110 1 die 10R 29%
--[X] Havoc Scout Deployment Seoul 0/110 1 die 10R 29% (50% at least one Havoc finishes)
-[X] Bureau 3/3
--[X] Security Review Military DC50 3 dice 100%
740R/740R 7/7 Free Dice
All of the warlords are dangerous, are consolidating, and are growing in power. Krukov is hardly unique in that regard. Trying to cut the flavour of the month down to size is a sissyphean, and perhaps even counter-productive, task. What matters most to us isn't keeping every warlord weak, it's selectively targetting warlords based on a variety of factors:
1) How motivated are they to fight the GDI (e.g. Gideon is a die hard fanatic, while Bintang mostly wants to just sit back and enjoy her luxuries and power):
2) How likely are they to unite other warlords behind them in the absence of Kane (e.g. Gideon is very good at this, and Stahl is very bad):
3) How likely are they to betray Kane if he makes a deal with us (unfortunatly the ones most likely to betray him are the ones that cause the most fanaticsm and hatred between GDI citizens and non-GDI citizens) ("canon" betrayers were Gideon, Mehretu, and Reynaldo, IIRC)
4) What capabilities do they bring to the table in the event of full scale war (e.g. Bintang can impose an instant -20 logistics if she actually tried)
5) How good are they at increasing the fanaticsm of NOD and recruiting from disaffected GDI citizens (e.g. Gideon is great at propaganda, and one of the warlords has been systematically assassinating friendly minor warlords)
6) How well do they adhere to the conventions of war (Stahl, Krukov, Bintang, and Yao are all good at this, at least compared to the average NOD warlord, whereas Mehretu and Reynaldo flagrantly violate them)
7) How well do they treat their citizens (I seem to remember both Stahl and Krukov as being good administrators, at least for NOD warlords)
8) How competent would they be as leaders of a united NOD (Gideon would be the least competent of the known major warlords)
So for my personal targetting preferences, they would probably go:
-Mehretu (extremely motivated, deliberately targets civilians and medics for the sake of hurting civilians and medics)
-Gideon (extremely motivated, good at uniting NOD, good at recruiting, deliberately targets civilians and medics when doing so can give him a propaganda victory)
-Reynaldo (extremely motivated, deliberately targets civilians and medics for the sake of hurting civilians and medics, but poor at working with NOD)
-Krukov (all-around competent, but more resource-dependent than other warlords)
-10 Rings (intelligence center for NOD, but doesn't seem to have the capabilities to be more than a general NOD asset)
-Stahl (highly competent but poor at working with NOD, and possibly amenable to work with the GDI)
-Bintang (dangerous but very unmotivated)
-Yao (competent but resource limited)
-Ibrahim (competent but defensive mind set)
1) How motivated are they to fight the GDI (e.g. Gideon is a die hard fanatic, while Bintang mostly wants to just sit back and enjoy her luxuries and power):
2) How likely are they to unite other warlords behind them in the absence of Kane (e.g. Gideon is very good at this, and Stahl is very bad):
3) How likely are they to betray Kane if he makes a deal with us (unfortunatly the ones most likely to betray him are the ones that cause the most fanaticsm and hatred between GDI citizens and non-GDI citizens) ("canon" betrayers were Gideon, Mehretu, and Reynaldo, IIRC)
4) What capabilities do they bring to the table in the event of full scale war (e.g. Bintang can impose an instant -20 logistics if she actually tried)
5) How good are they at increasing the fanaticsm of NOD and recruiting from disaffected GDI citizens (e.g. Gideon is great at propaganda, and one of the warlords has been systematically assassinating friendly minor warlords)
6) How well do they adhere to the conventions of war (Stahl, Krukov, Bintang, and Yao are all good at this, at least compared to the average NOD warlord, whereas Mehretu and Reynaldo flagrantly violate them)
7) How well do they treat their citizens (I seem to remember both Stahl and Krukov as being good administrators, at least for NOD warlords)
8) How competent would they be as leaders of a united NOD (Gideon would be the least competent of the known major warlords)
So for my personal targetting preferences, they would probably go:
-Mehretu (extremely motivated, deliberately targets civilians and medics for the sake of hurting civilians and medics)
-Gideon (extremely motivated, good at uniting NOD, good at recruiting, deliberately targets civilians and medics when doing so can give him a propaganda victory)
-Reynaldo (extremely motivated, deliberately targets civilians and medics for the sake of hurting civilians and medics, but poor at working with NOD)
-Krukov (all-around competent, but more resource-dependent than other warlords)
-10 Rings (intelligence center for NOD, but doesn't seem to have the capabilities to be more than a general NOD asset)
-Stahl (highly competent but poor at working with NOD, and possibly amenable to work with the GDI)
-Bintang (dangerous but very unmotivated)
-Yao (competent but resource limited)
-Ibrahim (competent but defensive mind set)
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The counterpoint would be that we haven't been selectively targeting any warlords, and we also aren't building the capacity to selectively target any warlords.
We've been engaging in Tiberium abatement and outreach to populations in the Yellow Zones, but I don't recall any significant offensives against Nod warlords. So far, we've been content to let them come to us.
If Krukov or one of his peers starts emerging as first among equals, do we have the tools we need to prevent their rise?
We're not selectively targeting any warlords, because that's not the Treasury's job.
Lurking_Badger
Cheese Enjoyer
- Location
- Wisconsin
Yeah, deciding to target and attack a warlord is the job of politicians and generals. The Treasury' job is to do all of the logistics to do those actions. They build the factories for all of the equipment, mine and develop materials, and create the supply lines to get supplies to the soldiers.