Thought I was gonna get around to trying out a plan or choosing one that I liked on all counts, but got distracted. Guess I'll just vote for everything with Improved Containment Facilities in it for now, lol.

[X] Plan Something Something Dice Rolls Something Something
[X] Plan Running the Eyewall v. 4.7
[X] Plan A Bucket to Hold All This Power Mk.5 Communal Housing

[X] Plan Return of WELP
 
[X] Plan Chimeraguard v3
[X] Plan Return of WELP
 
Man, one of the things that's really tough about a high-traffic plan quest is if you want to compare plans, there's no real way to do that, and it's also a pain to figure out which plan is the "authoritative up-to-date" version.

Good lord, communal housing, lol. We had that back in the USSR, and I'll tell you, it's not fun. Picture living with a crappy roommate who snores like a chainsaw and/or listens to "AAAAY SHARONA" (and nothing else) until 4 in the morning, then make it two families with marital problems and infants instead; add a sprinkling of alcoholism. Unless you get lucky, the only thing it builds is a desire to turn your neighbor in to the KGB for "seditious activities" (i.e. not cleaning the goddamn shower drain). But hey, good luck, maybe this time it'll work out better.

Seems like we've got a couple of pressing concerns (other than completing the many many plan goals)

Capital Goods are going to drop through the floor.
Energy is going to drop through the floor.
Need to expand processing capacity (thankfully part of the plan already)
Need a little more money, still (looks like a lot of the plans are still leaving dice on the table)
Nod is beefing with us.

So, any plan I vote for will need to, in no particular order:
a) increase capital goods production (Nuuk seems like the most efficient way to do this)
b) increase energy (Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants seems like a no-brainer here)
c) Improve tiberium processing capacity (Looks like two stages of "Tiberium Processing Plants" will fill the plan goal)
d) improve tiberium harvesting (glacier mines looks pretty good)

For infrastructure, since arcologies are part of the plan goal, let's just get them done
For space stuff, finishing off Philly seems like a good idea for both the bonuses and because it's a plan goal
For agriculture, perennials are a plan goal and also help with consumer goods; since it's an "over time" thing, better get it done sooner
For services, we probably ought to finish off what the boss told us to do (GZ teacher colleges)
For military, rocket launch systems, ablat plating and point defense lasers seem like good things to take care of while progressing plan goals
 
Man, one of the things that's really tough about a high-traffic plan quest is if you want to compare plans, there's no real way to do that, and it's also a pain to figure out which plan is the "authoritative up-to-date" version.
You use the New tally button to read them.

PS: Glacier Mines looks terrible due to the high Logistics cost at the moment.
 
We're also starting to run up against ZOCOM's ability to cover Glacier Mines. They've still got some slack, but I'd rather that be held in reserve in case anything else comes up rather than just thrown at another Glacier.
 
If you have survived nuclear war, you do not abandon nuclear power. If you have been poisoned, you do not abandon chemistry.
Tiberium has killed six billion humans. To abhor it's power is to let their death be wasted.
We have witnessed these we call Scrin. We have witnessed great power, unimaginable technology, and folly, yes. But do none here desire to have their power without their evil, too?
Agreed. Tiberium has plenty of usefulness in transforming previous material that is perceived as useless to the user into useful material, at nearly no cost other than time, with varying rates depending on environmental conditions.

To the the civilization that it came from, they probably didn't care what was being destroyed and assimilated into more Tiberium, since the only thing that mattered to them was what they could get from using it, and not anything natural from the world itself. That's just a difference in value, since humanity does the same thing while mining and transforming things in nature into the useful goods it wants, such as crude oil into all sorts of end products.

Hell, if humanity had the option to simply break up seemingly worthless asteroids to mine from them, they probably would, since they can't possible perceive it as being useful to anyone else later on, at least not to the degree that they'd care for preserving it vs what they could get out from it for themselves at the time. The civilization that uses Tiberium probably perceived planets such as earth in the same way, and they simply couldn't be bothered to care about the indigenous species that remained on it while it was transformed since they didn't matter to them, the same way humans wouldn't care about a few ants and worms in a pile of dirt that they're digging up. If not for environmental dangers of pollution and damage to the ecosystem, laws that require companies to repair the nature they've ruined probably wouldn't even have passed. To the aliens that uses Tiberium, I doubt they needed to care about such damage since their ecosystem wouldn't be damaged, or that they simply don't need to care since they can remake whatever they need via using more Tiberium.

In the end Tiberium is just a tool. It's no more evil than anything else that humanity used to change the world to fit it's needs, since it's the user that's the source of problem and not the tool.

The problem here is that to anything that cannot understand and properly handle the tool, leaving a tool as complex and hard to control as Tiberium in the hands of humanity at the time was as bad as leaving dangerous machinery in the hands of a ignorant child, without any way to control it. With little knowledge and understanding, or even tools to control it, of course it would be a great danger to Humanity and it's home. But that's why there should be more effort spent on studying it, so that Humanity can make use of it while not being vulnerable to it.

Because honestly, I will never believe that the danger of Tiberium can ever truly be contained on Earth. The obvious reasoning that it came from somewhere else already aside, there will always be enough people to want to continue making use of it to fuel their desires for profit and growth at a faster rate than any other method they know of, and spread it to whatever place they think they could feasibly profit off of secretly in the future, or even use it as a weapon against alien races that don't understand how to manage it. Hell, I doubt it would only be just the Nod that would agree to do it, since it's not as if one needs to believe in a cult to know how useful Tiberium is after all.

So as long as Tiberium can turn worthless rocks and junk into useful material, there would never be a day where all of humanity will unanimously simply say no to using it. That is why it's imperative to develop better understanding of it and gain better control of it, because when prevention of proliferation is impossible in the long run, it's better to have the cure ready to reclaim any world that it would inevitable be spread upon.

Upon further reflection, I wonder what happens is Tiberium tries to eat Eezo, and whether or not it can synthesize it...
 
Seo is liable to be executed for treason or imprisoned for life if he deliberately seeds other stellar bodies with Tiberium. Because people see it as treason to aid what's clearly an enemy-hostis humani generis.

That's the odd part about the Tiberium space calls.

I mean there are other choices with Tiberium that actually are options. That while they have PS costs? Are viable. We have literally have the GM saying you'd get clapped for trying it.

I am to the point I want the option. Just so I can vote for it and get Seo killed. So we can make believers out of some people. Because that's what it's going to take it seems.
 
If we hold off on the integrated cargo system till we develop and roll out the scrin hover technology will it give a boost to the ics due to the synergies it can have
The thing about ICS is that it is a system. It is about building synergies and layering efficiences. The technology that you use in it helps, but the thing is that it can be adapted to new technologies.
 
Good lord, communal housing, lol. We had that back in the USSR, and I'll tell you, it's not fun. Picture living with a crappy roommate who snores like a chainsaw and/or listens to "AAAAY SHARONA" (and nothing else) until 4 in the morning, then make it two families with marital problems and infants instead; add a sprinkling of alcoholism. Unless you get lucky, the only thing it builds is a desire to turn your neighbor in to the KGB for "seditious activities" (i.e. not cleaning the goddamn shower drain). But hey, good luck, maybe this time it'll work out better.
Not the same thing. The way it's described, people would still have private living spaces exactly like apartment blocks, just those things that can be communal would be. Like a large professional kitchen instead of dozens of tiny corner kitchenettes, or a central park and rec center. Similar mentality to the durable goods libraries we set up earlier on.

I've been thinking of them as high class hotels that were set up for permanent habitation. Enough room to live comfortably in, even if most of the amenities are outside.
 
Easy enough. No need to drop anything.
Switch 2 dice from Railways to Apartments frees up 10R. We aren't in a critical shortage of either, so this doesn't affect things in later turns.
The problem is that, as I mentioned I think, I'm specifically trying to build up a Logistics surplus in preparation for the upcoming war. We don't want to be at just +4 Logistics when Nod is actively raiding us in many places and we're scrambling to ship reserves of military supplies and troops to the front lines of a global conflict. We want a large, comfortable margin of error, which means that the rail spending is an important component of the plan. More so than the Housing.

In early iterations of the plan I had those dice budgets for the Integrated Cargo System megaproject, which gives you an idea of the scale of commitment I was planning to expand our Logistics in the next few turns.

Then switch a die from Tiberium Processing Plants onto Vein Mines for another 10R. Since you aren't actually increasing Tiberium harvesting, you don't need to ensure completion of the Processing Plants this turn.
Remember how you think Reykjavik is important because it provides redundancy to our myomer production?

The processing plants are important because they provide redundancy to our tiberium refining and make it much less likely that we suffer income loss from a successful Nod attack on Chicago or Jeddah/Medina.

And frankly, our economy would probably survive a temporary interruption of our myomer supply a lot more gracefully than a temporary interruption of our tiberium refining capacity.

I'm willing to downgrade the silo research die back to a vein mining die for 5 R, but the other 5 R would have to come from somewhere else.

I am firmly convinced that Super Orcas are more important than the other projects.
Current Shells are a bit inaccurate but still usable.
Naval Point Defense is really useful, but the Navy is still operating (mostly) fine without them.
We redeveloped the Orcas 2 years ago because they don't fulfil their role. AKA: Basically useless.
We've seen Orcas carrying out their intended role; with greater supplies of URLS missiles and the general solidification of our air superiority fighter arm with the QAAM now countering the Banshee-bis and easily swatting down other Nod air combatants, the Orcas remain at least mostly functional.

Whereas we always, always run out of shells in nearly every major battle we fight, if Nod can draw us into a prolonged conflict.

Capital Goods are going to drop through the floor.
Energy is going to drop through the floor.
Need to expand processing capacity (thankfully part of the plan already)
Need a little more money, still (looks like a lot of the plans are still leaving dice on the table)
Nod is beefing with us.
My plan, Return of WELP, addresses your second, third, and fifth concerns directly with aggressive rollout of fusion reactors, tiberium refineries, and new weapon systems, respectively.

Under advice from @Void Stalker , I recommend doing two phases of fusion plants back to back (this is the first of the two) to build up a big Energy surplus that we can then use to tide us over while devoting lots of Heavy Industry dice to Nuuk. Until then we'll have to get by with odds and ends of Capital Goods from light industry projects and maybe a round or two of spider cotton plantations if need be. I think we can manage, though it'll be kind of tight for a while.

Your fourth concern (income) is put off for later. More money will need to wait for a turn when refinery construction isn't sucking all the oxygen out of the room in the Tiberium category.

For infrastructure, since arcologies are part of the plan goal, let's just get them done

For military, rocket launch systems, ablat plating and point defense lasers seem like good things to take care of while progressing plan goals
For infrastructure, there's a problem. We have plenty of time to fulfill the Plan commitment to build arcologies, but building only arcologies doesn't give us a realistic hope of resolving the problem where we have tons of people living in low-quality housing, either in Yellow Zones or shitty commieblocks in Blue Zones.

We need the apartment project, which is much faster and cheaper to build- we can get 18 Housing from apartments faster than we can get 8 Housing from arcologies. It costs some Logistics, but we were planning to do more Logistics building anyway, and even with the extra Logistics projects factored in, the apartments still win as an efficient way to do housing.

We'll still build the arcologies, but we don't need to rush them and front-load them this heavily. We only have two phases left and a phase only takes about 9 dice these days; we've got time.

Many people want to go farther than the apartment project and research communal housing options that are higher density. This costs us Political Support and may be unpopular; I have my concerns about it.

...

As for military...

We need to think about which deployment projects have urgent impact and are desired by the military. The main ones that the conversation revolves around are:

Tube Artillery (better cannons mean more accurate artillery fire which means we use fewer shells per unit of blown up Noddies, which reduces the shell crisis and helps blow up Noddies)

Super Orcas (better air support, air support that can defend itself against Nod aircraft, also benefits the Navy because the carriers use Orcas as strike aircraft)

Naval Point Defense (the Navy was willing to pull a lot of strings to get us to do this quickly and with lasers, so we'd better finish it before they get really pissed)

After that we may see a variety of consumables projects coming online, but we really shold do those particular deployments. My plan has the first and third. Some others favor the second and third instead.

The thing about ICS is that it is a system. It is about building synergies and layering efficiences. The technology that you use in it helps, but the thing is that it can be adapted to new technologies.
Yeah, that's what I figured. I figured a lot of the project involved things like inventory management and rapid transfers of cargo from one kind of vehicle to another. Stuff that doesn't stop being useful when "one kind of vehicle" changes from "trucks and relatively small boats" to "hovertrucks."
 
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None of these arguments are very convincing.
However, I'm far to stressed and tired to put up with your tendency to constantly argue with people over small differences of opinion.
I'm going to say that I'm politely ending discussion, because I have no idea how you politely exit such a discussion.
As it seems a bit rude to just say 'your arguments are bad' and then just leave without explaining it, I'll address the biggest issue:
If you actually believed all of that stuff was a critical as you said, you wouldn't be putting any resources on Housing or Perennials. (Well, you'd still be able to afford one die on Perennials.)
You said that taking a die off Tiberium Processing Plants to leave only likely to complete was unacceptable, but that is exactly what you have done with Logistics. You could have an extra die on Rail Network Construction.
The same applies to Reykjavik Macrospinner. You can afford another die on that too. It was never a case of one project being more important than another one. You just aren't committing to all of them.
(Unless there is something about these Perennials that I don't know? Do they eat Noddies/Tiberium??)
Please don't ask for my reasoning again, if what you are going to do is tell me that I can't have a differing opinion.
 
None of these arguments are very convincing.
However, I'm far to stressed and tired to put up with your tendency to constantly argue with people over small differences of opinion.
I'm going to say that I'm politely ending discussion, because I have no idea how you politely exit such a discussion.
As it seems a bit rude to just say 'your arguments are bad' and then just leave without explaining it, I'll address the biggest issue:
If you actually believed all of that stuff was a critical as you said, you wouldn't be putting any resources on Housing or Perennials. (Well, you'd still be able to afford one die on Perennials.)
You said that taking a die off Tiberium Processing Plants to leave only likely to complete was unacceptable, but that is exactly what you have done with Logistics. You could have an extra die on Rail Network Construction.
The same applies to Reykjavik Macrospinner. You can afford another die on that too. It was never a case of one project being more important than another one. You just aren't committing to all of them.
(Unless there is something about these Perennials that I don't know? Do they eat Noddies/Tiberium??)
Please don't ask for my reasoning again, if what you are going to do is tell me that I can't have a differing opinion.

Housing is absolutely critical. Failure to provide housing is not 'people have a hard time finding a place to live', if we have negative housing we have 'literally millions of people homeless because there are no homes to be had'. It's rather hard on morale, to say the least. And we are already short on housing, the demand for higher quality housing is not just because Initiative First and the Free Market Party are pushing for it. They're pushing for it because people want to have more room for a family than a parent's bedroom, a children's bedroom, a cramped combined living area and kitchen, and a toilet and shower.
Perennials include things like coffee and berry bushes. While not necessarily a good source of food compared to spending the same level of resources on vertical farms and aquaponics, it will expand GDI's food variety and offer easier ways to get hard to get foodstuffs, like a large number of seasonings.
 
Give it five to nine days and there will be another 10kish of words for you.
:grin2:

This is because it is Capital Goods out of Agriculture. It is not supposed to be good. Each sector has a couple of areas that they do really well. A couple more that they do a bit less well. And anything outside of that is going to be actually bad. Capital Goods is well into the actually bad sector for Agriculture.
Huh. This explains some actions weirdly low benefits. So an emergency option or for when agriculture dice somehow lose almost all of their value.

You will not be bringing Tiberium up with you for the simple reason that trying will not only get you fired, it might well get you shot. Not going to happen in other words.
Huh. GDI mankind is pretty traumatized by The Green looks like. Fair enough, three world wars back to back and pretty much an extinction event would do that.

Though I do hope that they relax this stance in time, because that should to cripple our expansion into space via lack of the wonder(fully toxic) green rocks and that our non-Tiberium mining and industrial tech should be lagging behind quite a bit. Since we seem to have managed to keep Tiberium away from orbit we should be quite capable of guaranteeing it to an asteroid or a moons surface.

That said I wonder, of all the planets Scrin picked Earth to seed? And only Earth? Tiberium might need garden worlds to really flourish and might not work well elsewhere.

Because Rare Metals are small in quantity, and you have plenty of refining space to add a few tons of rare ores to the mix. Regolith on the other hand requires a lot more space and processing capability per phase.
Ah so there is a hidden orbital processing capacity that this costs little of. Got it.


[X] Plan Chimeraguard v3
Infrastructure (5 dice)
-[X] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 3), 3 dice (45 Resources)
-[X] Communal Housing Experiments (New), 2 dice (20 Resources)
Heavy Industry (4 dice +2 Free)
-[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 2), 6 dice (120 Resources)
Light and Chemical Industry (4 dice)
-[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner, 3 dice (60 Resources)
Agriculture (3 dice)
-[X] Perennial Aquaponics Bays (Stage 2), 2 dice (20 Resources)
-[X] Security Review, 1 die
Tiberium (6 dice)
-[X] Tiberium Vein Mines (Stage 1), 2 dice (40 Resources)
-[X] Tiberium Processing Plants (Stage 1), 4 dice (120 Resources)
Orbital (5 dice +2 Free)
-[X] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 4), 7 dice (140 Resources)
Services (4 dice)
-[X] Green Zone Teacher Colleges, 2 dice (10 Resources)
-[X] Emergency Tiberium Infusion Development, 2 dice (30 Resources)
Military (6 dice +2 Free)
-[X] Pacifier Mobile Artillery Vehicle Deployment, 1 die (10 Resources)
-[X] Laser Point Defense Refits, 3 dice (45 Resources)
-[X] Tube Artillery Deployment, 3 dice (45 Resources)
-[X] Havoc Scout Mech Development, 1 die (10 Resources)
Bureaucracy (3 dice)
-[X] Security Review (Agriculture)

Resources Available: 715
Resources Spent: 715
Resources Remaining: 0
Some questions if you don't mind? Trying to catch up with planning in this quest.

Why the Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner when we are looking at producing a lot of Zone Armors and mechs given our promises and another stage of the Johannesburg facility would discount that? And since ground forces would very, very much like more sealed power armor.

Postponing caffeine once more? This really worries me, High Priority and there have been mentions in story about this. Why has it not been done by now?

I wanted to ask why Vein Mines over expanding into Red Zones, but looking again its cheaper and gives more Resources, considering that Glacier Mining's Logistics cost.

Given that we appear tight on resources, why those free dice for Philadelphia over mining? There is also that cheap and promising Orbital Cleanup.

I am very worried about the now long term lack of action regarding shell, missile, and ablat plating production despite all the mentions of problems stemming from this in story... this plan ignores all the Very High Priority military actions which confuses me, for all that Laser PD is a priority.
 
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Given that we appear tight on resources, why such focus on more dice from Philadelphia over mining? What with those 2 free dice. There is also that cheap and promising Orbital Cleanup.
We need to make 6000-ish progress on certain orbital projects and to reach that we need 7 dice per turn. 2 Dice not put on these projects now means we need to stress ourselves more towards the end of the plan.
 
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