Sonic artillery has been a persistent ask since the second turn of the game and GDI's doctrine has only gotten even more artillery-heavy since then. If we want a present for ZOCOM the thing they've been pestering us about for literally 8 years now is probably the best bet.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- canada
[X] Plan Heavy Income with Factory Refit (for ZOCOM)
Welp, I know I argued for more income since a long long long long time ago, especially given the importance of doing so earlier during a 4-year plan. But eh, whether or not people care about total progress over the entire plan vs the individual steps is another thing entirely. So I'm not holding my breath for the most useful plan to win here.
Welp, I know I argued for more income since a long long long long time ago, especially given the importance of doing so earlier during a 4-year plan. But eh, whether or not people care about total progress over the entire plan vs the individual steps is another thing entirely. So I'm not holding my breath for the most useful plan to win here.
[X] Plan Heavy Income with Factory Refit (for ZOCOM)
This is not true man. Not for Tib Processing.
The QM has made no such assertion about Tib Processing that Im aware of, and the historical record specifically suggests otherwise.
This is not just some abstract claim or theorycrafting.
We have previously gone briefly within less than a hundred points of our max Tib Processing capacity at least twice before without any mechanical or narrative effects. Lemme give you quotes:
In Q4 2055 we were 70 points short of our maximum Tib Processing capacity
Before that? In Q1 2054 Results, we were within 40 points of our Tib Processing capacity.
Again, nada.
The evidence pretty clearly indicates that in this specific matter?
Close only matters with hand grenades and nuclear weapons.
Not Tiberium Processing capacity.
1)This is not a loss.
That is dice that has to be spent building out more Tib Processing capacity anyway. For safety's sake as increased Nod coordination becomes a thing, because we are likely to see an increasing need for transuranics and need more Howlette-Gardener processors, and because its a prereq to growing our income.
And doing it before we have to start worrying about Tib inhibitors again is just good sense.
2)Front loaded cash income = frontloaded effects from investing said cash.
Thats the whole point of Plan Heavy Income as I understand it.
3) Tiberium mining is dependent on other factors other than Tib dice availability.
Logistics, Cap Goods, ZOCOM confidence, Yellow Zone infrastructure investment.
I am not at all convinced by the argument you are making.
Its not like any overflow would go to waste here. We still have to increase our Processing by almost 1100 cap as a Plan Goal.
4)Our persistent problem this FYP so far is that we cant afford to activate all our dice.
I dont anticipate Free dice shortage being a significant issue next turn should Plan Heavy Income win.
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[X] Plan Heavy Income with Factory Refit (for ZOCOM)
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
These are valid points. On the other hand, it should be noted that the backpack launchers are likely to be ULRS-compatible, which means they're likely to be more flexible than heavy sonic artillery. While they'll perform less well in the specific role of "blow up big thing," they're likely to be adaptable to roles the sonic artillery cannot perform, like "shoulder-fired SAM launcher to shoot down those Venoms that keep trying to pick us off in mid-jumpjet-jump."
This is a fair argument. On the other hand, honestly I'd prefer to push up to the limit of our refining capacity, then do only processing plants (and maybe a die or two on railgun-harvester factories, which can fill in the gaps in the remaining processing capacity). The absolute gains may be less-than-stunning, but they'll make a big difference up front in Q4 when we need them if we want a sizeable Military investment.
We'd be down to potentially 55 RpT of unused refining capacity, eh? I'd be comfortable with following "Heavy Income" with three dice on Processors (enough to give a 77% chance of completing) and three dice on railgun-harvester factories (+10-30 RpT, not enough to put us over the line). In the unlikely event that we didn't finish the processors, finishing next turn would be easy enough.
The thing causing the lack of funding is mostly the research priorities. Once we get those research projects completed in Q3, blowing the doors off the Litvinov projects will be easy, we can throw two dice at each for very cheap. Or two at one and one at the other, then spend one die on SCIENCE!!! to keep Seo happy, but cheaper SCIENCE!!! than before. We could potentially activate all four Services dice and make something like 225-ish Progress on Litvinov's projects while still doing SCIENCE!!!, all for the low low price of 30-35 R.
It's a big bottleneck, but it's a bottleneck we then immediately open. Furthermore, we avoid most of the problem of intercontinental tiberium shipping, because most of the huge influx of tiberium being shoveled into the Mecca-Jeddah-Medina complex is coming from right next door to the place, so it's not as bad as back when we were taking tiberium from other continents and moving it to North America to be processed at Chicago.
I wouldn't want to run this close to the line for long, but I'm willing to accept it for one turn, for the sake of having something more like 700 RpT to work with in Q4.
@AntiSanity , I do agree with this point of @Derpmind 's. While it's hard to find a Resource-neutral option there, I think we'd do better to turn the third Tidal Power die into a single Apartments die. Even if it finishes, we're probably fine on Logistics (unless the very unlikely worst-case Logistics scenarios unfold, in which case the apartments aren't the heart of the problem), and there's only a 5% chance of that happening. If it doesn't finish, it puts us much closer to being able to surge another +6 Housing at will for cheap in Q4 or later.
Also, trying to find a way to put the nanoplating in would be nice. @BOTcommander deserves nice things.
@uju32
Derpmind's a ma'am, not a man.
We had narrative effects, @uju32 . It wasn't ideal. Nothing lastingly bad happened, but that may well have been because we got lucky, or because Nod wasn't ready to hit us in that vulnerability. This time, they might be ready or we might be unlucky. I do NOT want to stay close to our cap. I'm willing to stay there briefly, but not for a protracted length of time.
Nod has both.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
TLDR we can spam them next turn alongside processing plants and storage research.
Disregard this I suck
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- Location
- canada
Really? Was that explained somewhere? Because I thought it meant hardier Harvesters that can mine more reliably and continuously in more contested areas without being damaged and/or destroyed as often, which should mean more Tiberium gathered and processed.
- Location
- The Underdark
@Prime 2.0 is mistaken. It does count towards your Tib refining capacity.
- Location
- Earth
Both @uju32 and @Simon_Jester have covered what I wanted to, so I won't rehash their arguments.
I am willing to accommodate the changes, but with one caveat. As the plan has been available for a while, I am hesitant to change it without giving people a chance to object.
ATTENTION for people voting Plan Heavy Income with Factory Refit (for ZOCOM):
Are there any objections with me removing 1 die (10R) away from Tidal Power? The 10 resources saved will go to Nanotube Hull Panelling Development (using 1 free die) and Remedial Education Program Expansions (using the remaining services die to attempt to 1 turn this). Unless there are more than a few objections, I will update the plan in 12 hours from now.
(Sorry @Simon_Jester, but I would rather finish the hull paneling and remedial education program in one turn than for temporary progress on apartments for now.)
I am willing to accommodate the changes, but with one caveat. As the plan has been available for a while, I am hesitant to change it without giving people a chance to object.
ATTENTION for people voting Plan Heavy Income with Factory Refit (for ZOCOM):
Are there any objections with me removing 1 die (10R) away from Tidal Power? The 10 resources saved will go to Nanotube Hull Panelling Development (using 1 free die) and Remedial Education Program Expansions (using the remaining services die to attempt to 1 turn this). Unless there are more than a few objections, I will update the plan in 12 hours from now.
(Sorry @Simon_Jester, but I would rather finish the hull paneling and remedial education program in one turn than for temporary progress on apartments for now.)
Oops.
My apologies for the error, @Derpmind .
Narrative effects for having low margins of Tib Processing capacity?
Id appreciate a citation if you can find it. Because I cant. And narrative effects are usually signposted a couple turns in advance.
I mean, not having a Processing capacity buffer is a potential vulnerability for Nod exploitation, but thats arguably no worse a vulnerability than dropping down to very low Energy or +1 or +2 Logistics. Or havig one Myomer Factory.
Because if nothing else, it should be easier for Nod to harry supply lines and harvesting in the field without a lot of investment.
I wouldnt like to linger there for a long time either, mind, especially given as Processing Capacity is relatively cheap.
Building a generous buffer at those costs seems reasonable.
What I dont agree with is the assertion that a shortterm dip has narrative effects. I cant find any.
Nevermind that the nature of Plan Quests requires running thin margins at least some of the time.
Thankfully, Nod does not run that section of the Treasury
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I really, really hate to leave Infrastructure dice fallow, but that's at least a respectable reason to do so...
I can live with it.
They do, however, have the means to apply the hand grenades and nuclear weapons to disrupt our refining operations, if they try hard enough.Thankfully, Nod does not run that section of the Treasury
Crafter of War
The Dorf
- Location
- Bend
I sure that for every one noddie that thinks of that, there are 6 that have PTSD flashbacks to what Granger did when they touched his precious mining operations.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
Got bored, so I wrote a variation of Plan All Into Mil.
It goes slightly less into Military, diverting more resources into getting us more resources next turn.
I've also tuned the Military projects towards completing some of those Very High Priority things.
While it doesn't directly work towards new hardware for ZOCOM, it does still give them Wartime Factory Refits, Orca Refits, more missiles and ablats.
Once the cheap and deliverable now projects are out of the way, I'd be keen to start building the Sonic Artillery and Havoc Scout.
[X] Plan: Get Me Orca Backup!
-[X] Infra 4/5 dice 50R
--[X] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) 154/300 2 dice 20R 62%
--[X] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 548/650 2 dice 30R 91%
-[X] Heavy Ind 4/4 dice 80R
--[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 2) 22/300 2 dice 40R (2/4 median)
--[X] Automated Civilian Shipyards 139/250 2 dice 40R 80%
-[X] L&CI 0/4 dice
-[X] Agri 0/3 dice
-[X] Tiberium 6/6 dice +2 free dice 170R
--[X] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 11) 46/130 2 dice 50R 98% (13% Stage 12)
--[X] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 11) 30/180 3 dice 90R 96%
--[X] Railgun Harvester Factories Albany 0/70 1 die 10R 70%
--[X] Railgun Harvester Factories Porto 0/70 1 die 10R 70%
--[X] Railgun Harvester Factories Vladivostok 0/70 1 die 10R 70%
-[X] Orb Ind 5/5 dice 75R
--[X] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 4) 100/715 3 dice 60R (3/9 median)
--[X] Nanotube Hull Panelling Development 0/30 1 die 5R 95%
--[X] Expand Orbital Communications Network (Phase 5) 79/135 1 die 10R 69%
-[X] Services 4/4 dice 70R
--[X] Green Zone Teacher Colleges 0/200 1 die 5R (1/3 median)
--[X] Remedial Education Program Expansions 0/120 1 die 5R 12%
--[X] NOD Research Initiatives 124/160 1 die 30R 100%
--[X] Scrin Research Institutions 328/350 1 die 30R 100%
-[X] Military 6/6 +4 free dice 135R
--[X] Wartime Factory Refits (Phase 2) 52/90 1 die 20R 91%
--[X] Orca Refit Deployment 0/200 3 dice 45R 54%
--[X] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 2) 105/200 2 dice 30R 86%
--[X] Ablat Plating Deployment (Stage 4) 3 dice 30R 84%
--[X] Hydrofoil Shipyards (Busan-Ulsan) 69/85 1 die 10R 100%
-[X] Bureau 3/3 dice
--[X] Lobby For Establishment of Negotiation Corps (New) 3 dice 91%
6/6 Free Dice
580R/590 R
Retaining this vote, as it works towards Orca Refits and has a decent amount of dice on Glaciers. (But could be doing more...)
[X] Plan Wartime Factory Refits and orca's
It goes slightly less into Military, diverting more resources into getting us more resources next turn.
I've also tuned the Military projects towards completing some of those Very High Priority things.
While it doesn't directly work towards new hardware for ZOCOM, it does still give them Wartime Factory Refits, Orca Refits, more missiles and ablats.
Once the cheap and deliverable now projects are out of the way, I'd be keen to start building the Sonic Artillery and Havoc Scout.
[X] Plan: Get Me Orca Backup!
-[X] Infra 4/5 dice 50R
--[X] Tidal Power Plants (Phase 3) 154/300 2 dice 20R 62%
--[X] Blue Zone Arcologies (Stage 2) 548/650 2 dice 30R 91%
-[X] Heavy Ind 4/4 dice 80R
--[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 2) 22/300 2 dice 40R (2/4 median)
--[X] Automated Civilian Shipyards 139/250 2 dice 40R 80%
-[X] L&CI 0/4 dice
-[X] Agri 0/3 dice
-[X] Tiberium 6/6 dice +2 free dice 170R
--[X] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Stage 11) 46/130 2 dice 50R 98% (13% Stage 12)
--[X] Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 11) 30/180 3 dice 90R 96%
--[X] Railgun Harvester Factories Albany 0/70 1 die 10R 70%
--[X] Railgun Harvester Factories Porto 0/70 1 die 10R 70%
--[X] Railgun Harvester Factories Vladivostok 0/70 1 die 10R 70%
-[X] Orb Ind 5/5 dice 75R
--[X] GDSS Philadelphia II (Phase 4) 100/715 3 dice 60R (3/9 median)
--[X] Nanotube Hull Panelling Development 0/30 1 die 5R 95%
--[X] Expand Orbital Communications Network (Phase 5) 79/135 1 die 10R 69%
-[X] Services 4/4 dice 70R
--[X] Green Zone Teacher Colleges 0/200 1 die 5R (1/3 median)
--[X] Remedial Education Program Expansions 0/120 1 die 5R 12%
--[X] NOD Research Initiatives 124/160 1 die 30R 100%
--[X] Scrin Research Institutions 328/350 1 die 30R 100%
-[X] Military 6/6 +4 free dice 135R
--[X] Wartime Factory Refits (Phase 2) 52/90 1 die 20R 91%
--[X] Orca Refit Deployment 0/200 3 dice 45R 54%
--[X] Universal Rocket Launch System Deployment (Phase 2) 105/200 2 dice 30R 86%
--[X] Ablat Plating Deployment (Stage 4) 3 dice 30R 84%
--[X] Hydrofoil Shipyards (Busan-Ulsan) 69/85 1 die 10R 100%
-[X] Bureau 3/3 dice
--[X] Lobby For Establishment of Negotiation Corps (New) 3 dice 91%
6/6 Free Dice
580R/590 R
Retaining this vote, as it works towards Orca Refits and has a decent amount of dice on Glaciers. (But could be doing more...)
[X] Plan Wartime Factory Refits and orca's
- Location
- United States
[X] Plan Heavy Income with Factory Refit (for ZOCOM)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If I may, I'd recommend taking the two free dice off of harvesters so you can put it on shimmer shields and Sonic Arty. You have a 10r surplus right now and taking the two dice off of harvesters frees up 20r, so you can afford both. We'd only be losing out on a one-time 10r of income total by deferring the harvester factories compared to the 40-60 from not doing another glacier phase, so it's absolutely a trade worth doing imo.
Do that and I'll throw you an approval vote.
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[X] Plan Heavy Income with Factory Refit (for ZOCOM)
cokerpilot
Here comes the rain.
[X] Plan Heavy Income with Factory Refit (for ZOCOM)
Love the Swat Kats referance.
👍