Tiberium refineries aren't exactly hard to build, they're a technology that's been mature for decades and it's common practice to build them at every little rinky dink FOB in an active warzone. Getting sufficient capacity to process our glacier/Red Zone hauls is most likely included in the project cost already, there are harder and more expensive things that are below the level of abstraction so I wouldn't expect it to be a major problem.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
Ok yeah the Military is more or less begging us to start upgrading there stuff we need to focus on that now.
[X] Plan Military R&D
[X] Plan Military R&D
- Location
- in the trash
I suspect the problem is less having enough refineries and more "okay, what the fuck do we actually do with all this processed tiberium other than building more silos to contain it". Plus you probably need further processing to actually convert it into useful stuff.
Also they literally have open air tiberium vats, which doesn't strike me as terribly safe. Field refineries likely aren't made for permanence or safety, they're stripped down designs meant to be quickly assembled in the field.
Plus glacier mining is probably on a different scale than the field refineries designed to get at the most easily accessible deposits of tiberium.
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- Location
- USA
[X] Plan Military R&D
Of the two leading plans I perfer the one that does some tiberium mitigation and income gain (which we still need bad given how many dice we are leaving idle each turn) and gets more progress on yellow zone reconstruction which we need to house the people in the yellow zone as well as counter NOD propaganda- Edit and it does far more to address the housing crisis
Of the two leading plans I perfer the one that does some tiberium mitigation and income gain (which we still need bad given how many dice we are leaving idle each turn) and gets more progress on yellow zone reconstruction which we need to house the people in the yellow zone as well as counter NOD propaganda- Edit and it does far more to address the housing crisis
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- Location
- in the trash
[X] Plan Military R&D
Well right now labour is "practically unlimited", and I expect that to change once the situation is less fucked. Glacier mining is basically the equivalent of working on an offshore oil platform except worse because the environment is actively trying to kill you and Nod is also trying to kill you, so you'd need to offer benefits appropriate to the job except right now the economy is in shambles and there are lots of people looking for work. I don't expect the resource amount to go down, I expect the costs associated with it to go up.
Also with Tiberium we have the rather hilarious issue that we're probably going to have problems if we can't spend it fast enough.
Well right now labour is "practically unlimited", and I expect that to change once the situation is less fucked. Glacier mining is basically the equivalent of working on an offshore oil platform except worse because the environment is actively trying to kill you and Nod is also trying to kill you, so you'd need to offer benefits appropriate to the job except right now the economy is in shambles and there are lots of people looking for work. I don't expect the resource amount to go down, I expect the costs associated with it to go up.
Also with Tiberium we have the rather hilarious issue that we're probably going to have problems if we can't spend it fast enough.
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[X] Plan Recon, Tiberium and Military Investment
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Since Plan Military R&D is the currently leading plan, here's an analysis of completion chance. (Using AnyDice.)
[] Plan Military R&D
Infrastructure (6 dice)
-[] Yellow Zone Reconstruction (Phase 1), 4 dice (60 Resources) 0%
-[] Monument Restoration Program, 2 dice (20 Resources) 59.05%
Heavy Industry (3 dice)
-[] Blue Zone Power Grid Reconstruction (Phase 2), 3 dice (30 Resources) 24.55%
Tiberium (6 dice)
-[] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 2), 3 dice (75 Resources) 93.25%
-[] Tiberium Algae Decontamination, 3 dice (30 Resources) 0%
Services (3 dice +2 Free)
-[] Primary Schooling, 3 dice + 2 Free dice (25 Resources) 76.57%
Military (3 dice + 3 Free)
-[] ASAT Defense System (Phase 1), 1 die (10 Resources) 50%
-[] Zone Suit Development Tenders, 1 die (10 Resources) 20%
-[] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Development, 1 die (15 Resources) 20%
-[] Boron Carbide Composite Suits, 1 Free die (10 Resources) 25%
-[] Remote Weapons System Development Predator, 1 Free die (10 Resources) 60%
-[] Wolverine Mark 3 Development, 1 Free die (10 Resources) 60%
Bureaucracy (3 dice)
-[] Security Reviews (Bureaucracy), 3 dice
Total cost: 305 Resources, 0 remaining
And here's my plan for comparison:
[] Plan Military Buildup + Algae Cleanup
-[] Infrastructure 4/6 60R Dice +4
--[] Yellow Zone Reconstruction (Phase 1) 0/400 1 die 15R 0%
--[] Urban Metros (Phase 2) 48/150 3 dice 45R 88.64%
-[] Heavy Industry 3/3 +1 free 40R Dice +4
--[] Blue Zone Power Grid Reconstruction (Phase 2) 100/300 4 dice 40R 62.14%
-[] Light and Chemical Industry 3/3 45R Dice +4
--[] High Energy Capacitor Plants 0/100 3 dice 45R 89.4%
-[] Agriculture 1/3 10R Dice +4
--[] Pharmaceuticals greenhouses 65/100 1 dice 10R 70%
-[] Tiberium 6/6 60R Dice +24
--[] Tiberium Algae Decontamination 0/400 6 dice 60R 74.44%
-[] Services 1/3 20R Dice +19
--[] Tiberium Health Services 66/100 1 dice 20R 86%
-[] Military 3/3 +4 free 70R Dice -1
--[] ASAT Defense System (Phase 1) 0/50 1 die 10R 50%
--[] Zone Suit Development Tenders 0/80 2 dice 20R 67.6%
--[] Boron Carbide Composite Suits 0/75 2 dice 20R 71.5%
--[] Remote Weapons System Development Predator 0/40 1 die 10R 60%
--[] Wolverine Mark 3 Development 0/40 1 die 10R 60%
-[] Bureau 3/3 Dice +4
--[] Security Reviews (Bureaucracy) 3 dice
Major differences include: Taking Urban Metros to get our logistics out of the red. A much greater chance of finishing Power Grid this turn. Getting High Energy Capacitors built to improve our military. Getting Pharmaceutical production back online to give us more medicine. A very good chance of removing all Tiberium Algae in this one turn. Finally getting Tiberium Health Services up and running. A much greater chance of finishing Zone Suit Development this turn. And a much greater chance of manufacturing Boron Carbide Composite Suits.
My plan doesn't invest as many dice into Yellow Zone Reconstruction, and it doesn't work on Primary Schooling yet either. But we have multiple areas that are barely struggling above water and they need to be done ASAP. Our power situation regularly experiences brownouts. Our food and health are only technically sufficient. Our logistics barely covers our needs. All this at the same time as we need to continue the fight against Tiberium and now we need to gear up to face NOD. I think my plan best attacks all these multiple factors.
[] Plan Military R&D
Infrastructure (6 dice)
-[] Yellow Zone Reconstruction (Phase 1), 4 dice (60 Resources) 0%
-[] Monument Restoration Program, 2 dice (20 Resources) 59.05%
Heavy Industry (3 dice)
-[] Blue Zone Power Grid Reconstruction (Phase 2), 3 dice (30 Resources) 24.55%
Tiberium (6 dice)
-[] Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 2), 3 dice (75 Resources) 93.25%
-[] Tiberium Algae Decontamination, 3 dice (30 Resources) 0%
Services (3 dice +2 Free)
-[] Primary Schooling, 3 dice + 2 Free dice (25 Resources) 76.57%
Military (3 dice + 3 Free)
-[] ASAT Defense System (Phase 1), 1 die (10 Resources) 50%
-[] Zone Suit Development Tenders, 1 die (10 Resources) 20%
-[] Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Development, 1 die (15 Resources) 20%
-[] Boron Carbide Composite Suits, 1 Free die (10 Resources) 25%
-[] Remote Weapons System Development Predator, 1 Free die (10 Resources) 60%
-[] Wolverine Mark 3 Development, 1 Free die (10 Resources) 60%
Bureaucracy (3 dice)
-[] Security Reviews (Bureaucracy), 3 dice
Total cost: 305 Resources, 0 remaining
And here's my plan for comparison:
[] Plan Military Buildup + Algae Cleanup
-[] Infrastructure 4/6 60R Dice +4
--[] Yellow Zone Reconstruction (Phase 1) 0/400 1 die 15R 0%
--[] Urban Metros (Phase 2) 48/150 3 dice 45R 88.64%
-[] Heavy Industry 3/3 +1 free 40R Dice +4
--[] Blue Zone Power Grid Reconstruction (Phase 2) 100/300 4 dice 40R 62.14%
-[] Light and Chemical Industry 3/3 45R Dice +4
--[] High Energy Capacitor Plants 0/100 3 dice 45R 89.4%
-[] Agriculture 1/3 10R Dice +4
--[] Pharmaceuticals greenhouses 65/100 1 dice 10R 70%
-[] Tiberium 6/6 60R Dice +24
--[] Tiberium Algae Decontamination 0/400 6 dice 60R 74.44%
-[] Services 1/3 20R Dice +19
--[] Tiberium Health Services 66/100 1 dice 20R 86%
-[] Military 3/3 +4 free 70R Dice -1
--[] ASAT Defense System (Phase 1) 0/50 1 die 10R 50%
--[] Zone Suit Development Tenders 0/80 2 dice 20R 67.6%
--[] Boron Carbide Composite Suits 0/75 2 dice 20R 71.5%
--[] Remote Weapons System Development Predator 0/40 1 die 10R 60%
--[] Wolverine Mark 3 Development 0/40 1 die 10R 60%
-[] Bureau 3/3 Dice +4
--[] Security Reviews (Bureaucracy) 3 dice
Major differences include: Taking Urban Metros to get our logistics out of the red. A much greater chance of finishing Power Grid this turn. Getting High Energy Capacitors built to improve our military. Getting Pharmaceutical production back online to give us more medicine. A very good chance of removing all Tiberium Algae in this one turn. Finally getting Tiberium Health Services up and running. A much greater chance of finishing Zone Suit Development this turn. And a much greater chance of manufacturing Boron Carbide Composite Suits.
My plan doesn't invest as many dice into Yellow Zone Reconstruction, and it doesn't work on Primary Schooling yet either. But we have multiple areas that are barely struggling above water and they need to be done ASAP. Our power situation regularly experiences brownouts. Our food and health are only technically sufficient. Our logistics barely covers our needs. All this at the same time as we need to continue the fight against Tiberium and now we need to gear up to face NOD. I think my plan best attacks all these multiple factors.
Tiberium Algae Decontamination does help with tiberium mitigation. It has "(slightly contributes to plan goal)", just like Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting. More importantly, we know the tiberium algae will increase over time until we finish the project. As for it not increasing our income, I'd like to point to the giant warning at the top of the update indicating that, until we get more military buildup, trying to gain more income will have dire consequences. I don't think the 5 PS from Restoring Monuments is going to cover us losing a major military engagement to NOD right after we got warned against doing exactly that.
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- Location
- in the trash
I'm not particularly attached to my current vote, I just want a plan that invests in ASAT and Orbital RCTs at the minimum and doesn't burn most of the military dice on R&D projects that will still need factory projects to complete before our military actually sees the benefits. Going for the R&D projects on the basis that they're easy to complete is stupid because those projects that don't actually give our military the shit they need right now.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Actually, Orbital Strike Regimental Combat Team Development is another development program. Orbital Strike Combat Teams is the option that gives us an immediately-available military asset when completed. Unfortunately, the latter is a 0/150 project, costs 20 resources per die, and gives us a worse asset than doing it the long way with the Regimental Development option would.
(One of the options I'm eyeing for next turn is Apollo Fighter Factories. They cost Energy, but we'll have more than enough to get one of them up and running. And they're 0/75, so we can get one done with 2 dice and 30 Resources.)
I don't think that's a very fair criticism because nothing gives our military the shit they need right now except the boron carbide plants. We can't build an Apollo factory because there's already serious power shortages before bringing a new major draw online, and that's the only other available-to-go-this-second factory project, everything else is theoretical.
trooperist
Cinnamon Roll AI
[X] Plan Military Buildup + Algae Cleanup
Alright, I'm convinced.
Alright, I'm convinced.
Yeah I agree it's a relatively cheap factory and starting to modernize the air force would help us in any major engagements even if it's not super great for the constant low-level stuff. I don't want to risk intensifying the blackouts by doing a factory this turn just in case the power grid rolls bad and doesn't complete, but next turn even if we roll poorly this turn we can still be sure the power grid is completing and can afford to get a factory or two up.
- Location
- USA
Correction Housing is red, Logistics is Yellow. You also are spending resources on health an area that is yellow-green while all but ignoring Housing which is solid red. By not many you mean 1 dice on housing. Also Red Zone Harvesting has crucial income increase that we need.
You talk about logistics barely covering our needs but ignore that our housing is far worse off
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I'll admit I care a lot less about logistics vs. housing than I do about avoiding the oncoming train wreck that is going for "crucial income increase". If every branch of the military together says they can't support any more pushes into Tiberium territory, I'm inclined to believe them. I'll vote for any plan that doesn't stick our hand into the very obviously labeled trap. So far, there haven't been any other plans doing that besides mine.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
I really think we should be focussing heavily on the Yellow Zone Reconstruction and Red Zone Tiberium Harvesting.
The former so that we can start building decent infrastructure somewhere that isn't on a tiny 15% of the planet.
The latter because I'd like to see Red Zones start getting pushed back.
The former so that we can start building decent infrastructure somewhere that isn't on a tiny 15% of the planet.
The latter because I'd like to see Red Zones start getting pushed back.
Why not focus just on Yellow Zone Reconstruction (all six dice) this turn then finish it off next turn with like logistics or something.
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trooperist
Cinnamon Roll AI
While Tiberium is undoubtedly bad, in the end it's a long-term killer. Sometimes we have to pay attention to the short-term killers, like a NOD force breaking through our defenses and wrecking a Blue Zone.
Sure if something that bad happens it would mostly be the fault of the military. But those military guys would point out we've been ignoring almost all their requests for upgrades for almost two years and then Dr. Granger gets the axe.
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- Location
- New York
While the Brotherhood of Nod is generally weaker than GDI, Nod is strong enough to attack and destroy even the most well defended GDI stronghold if the Brotherhood is willing to mass its forces and take the losses to achieve a particular goal. Nod can concentrate its forces while GDI forces are always spread out across the Earth. The commanders believe GDI forces are at the breaking point already and we are on politically very thin ice so let us not push it for now.