Who Needs Harmony?: An MLP Empire Quest

[Walliseatscheese]

Equestria is going to be our main rival, but it should be a friendly rival.

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At first I wasn't on board with thinking of them as our rivals, because we practically founded the interconnected system of trade and diplomacy that's connected all of the world that we're aware of.

But then I realized two things.

First, the Environmental Policies of each nation will likely lead to clashes over economic policy, conservation efforts, and regional borders/influence, and this all will likely bleed over into citizenry interactions to some degree.

We're all on the same side of living decent lives, but once Equestria is able to connect into the network I expect there to be some degree of low level conflict going on.

Second, Equestria is set up to take advantage of all of our hard work pretty well.

They've spent their time pre contact developing their Diplomacy game through internal conflict resolution and have the basis of a robust Magic based economy (or the potential for such) which will allow them to flood the market with new and exciting goods.

We've basically laid out the welcome mat by reducing as many conflict factors as possible as well as giving them an in to the rest of the world from a perspective of "Those people whose explorers we saved from Barbarian Slavers who are on the other side of the world from the rest of you", which is worth a lot of sympathy points.

Once a reliable path is established, we can likely expect all of those scheming Nobles who don't want the Princesses to know what they're up to to expand outwards hard, because that's basically the only direction the Princesses are letting them go.

From Equestria's perspective, their home regions are safe, secure, stagnant and stationary. And along comes Griffus to open up a whole new world whose Wars Equestria has just managed to tip toe around.

Their next Big Political Decision is going to end up being whether or not they want to get involved in our conquest of the Yetis, assuming the Yetis don't attack first.

If they join us, they'll have rights to a land connection to Yakistan which will help their trade routes significantly.

But if they don't, they'll avoid fighting anti-Magic forces and truly blooding themselves for the first time in their Nation's existence.

I'm actually really hype for the Equestria plotline now, and I kind of want to bumrush the Changlings now so they don't wreck this for me.

@Questor we're several steps away from even thinking about a "Assassinate the Changling Queen" action, right?

that's a... weird theory.

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I'm personally expecting either Slavery, Blood Magic, or some sort of "Death To Tyrants/Emperors" founding story.

We should probably figure out what's going on with them, and soon.

 

[Pittauro]

@Walliseatscheese there's a reason why I'm calling it a "friendly" rivalry.

Simply put, we ARE rivals becaure we're the biggest and strongest countries around. We can be FRIENDLY rivals because

1)Our ideologies are not completely incompatible (though there will be a few points of frictions, see our views on nature and war)

2)We complement each other.

a)We have, by far, the best technology and technological mindset/institutions. We also have the strongest army.

b) They have the best magical knowledge and, presumably, magical institutions around, better than Neighpon, and FAR better than us. They also have the strongest hero units in existance: the Alicorn sisters, equipped with the elements of harmony.

In time we'll find way to introduce their magical objects into our industry to simplify things (basic example: a neverending/magical flame that could power a steam engine without conventional fuel, reducing the space needed to carry such fuel and allowing massively more efficient designs. Or, once we develop electrical technology, pegasi-sourced lightning as a form of magic-to-electricity conversion. Or divinatory/locatory spells to find deposits of raw metals underground, the same way Rarity could find gems with her spell in the show.

They, on the other hand, we'll also be able to take advantage of our technologies for things magic just isn't well suited for. Trains, for example, or our material science/metallurgy.

3)If you're doing global economy right, it's NOT a zero-sum game. We can make mutually beneficial deals, and even if we'll do our best to be in the better position, that doesn't mean they have to be left (far) behind. Again, they can source most of our magical equipment, and we mostly of the technological one, with many magitech objects incorporating the best from both of us.

If they join us, they'll have rights to a land connection to Yakistan which will help their trade routes significantly.

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Honestly no matter what happens in the long term we'll likely want to build a railway line through stormcountry to them anyway... but that's far away.

And anyway naval trade is more efficient... or at least it's more efficient nowadays. I'm not sure how our currently coal-powered trains would compare to sailships and coastal steamships... and then there's magic to take into considerations. Wind magic to push sailships, fire magic to give power to steamships OR trains... It's hard to say which means of transport would benefit more, though At least we can be certain that the trains would be much faster, and so better suited for perishables and passengers.

Changlings

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THEY'RE BACK!

Spoiler: yeah, I know, I couldn't find a chinese changeling on google...

@Questor we're several steps away from even thinking about a "Assassinate the Changling Queen" action, right?

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definitely. Right now the only "asset" we could send in there without getting too much attention from the start would be Rose. and Phalanx has been implied to be pretty careful about her safety anyway.

and EVEN if we succeeded... unless we managed to calm the hive IMMEDIATELY there would likely be a panic.


Nah, we need more time, and possibly the collaboration of more gynes (that was the term for Rose and sisters, right?)

I'm personally expecting either Slavery, Blood Magic, or some sort of "Death To Tyrants/Emperors" founding story.

We should probably figure out what's going on with them, and soon.

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I THINK (and correct me if I'm wrong as it's been a LONG time and we've barely interacted with them), that they actually have a form of debt slavery. They thought that was what Maretonia had too.

They ARE against hereditary slavery/slavery for life though.

 

[w34v3r]

At the very least they don't support it enough to give up on more gold.

 

[jonasquinn]

Second, Equestria is set up to take advantage of all of our hard work pretty well.

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I would actually present a counter perspective, we've already done all the stuff that Equestria could have done to prove their power and sincerity

Sure most smart people in the know will look at them and acknowledge that they're currently the most magically powerful nation but we're rapidly catching up in that area and there's no big important event for them to show off with

While the discovery of us is the biggest thing to happen to Equestria in a very long time the rest of the known world just regards them as another country the Empire discovered and thankfully it wasn't one we had to beat into submission

They've spent their time pre contact developing their Diplomacy game through internal conflict resolution and have the basis of a robust Magic based economy (or the potential for such) which will allow them to flood the market with new and exciting goods.

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It's worth keeping in mind three things in regards to this:

1) Equestria is very decentralised with individual nobles having a lot of power, which makes it significantly harder to build a major industrial power base

2) Most things magic can do our technology can do just as well, more reliably and more cheaply as well as us already being present in those markets

3) Magic isn't a new thing, while Equestria is ahead of the curve they won't have a lot of stuff that other countries can't already do themselves and what they do have can be studied and replicated in short order

"Those people whose explorers we saved from Barbarian Slavers who are on the other side of the world from the rest of you", which is worth a lot of sympathy points.

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For those specific people sure but something bad happening to a small number of people from an extremely large and powerful nation isn't going to inspire a tone of sympathy

Hell you could argue that people will be bitter that this extremely powerful country that could have been very useful during any of the problems they've gone through has just been chilling and enjoying peace for the past three decades

Once a reliable path is established, we can likely expect all of those scheming Nobles who don't want the Princesses to know what they're up to to expand outwards hard, because that's basically the only direction the Princesses are letting them go.

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The issue with that is where do they go? It's not like they can just walk into any of the other countries, especially when they know so little about them

From Equestria's perspective, their home regions are safe, secure, stagnant and stationary. And along comes Griffus to open up a whole new world whose Wars Equestria has just managed to tip toe around.

Their next Big Political Decision is going to end up being whether or not they want to get involved in our conquest of the Yetis, assuming the Yetis don't attack first.

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I would argue that their next big political decision will be how they can replicate the Empire's success at reigning in their nobles

 

[MrRobot]

I would argue that their next big political decision will be how they can replicate the Empire's success at reigning in their nobles

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Garrick and Revensburg: backmail and a lot of acident hero worship, also the firce cultural unity under a ideal and a apocaliptic war against horse sauron helped...

 

[PyrrosWarrior]

My thoughts on Equestria are that they are destined for being a rival at some point in the future unless they somehow completely fragment into microstates. They have far too much land, too much potential population, and likely plentiful resources. Keep in mind Wallis that a rival isn't the same thing as an enemy. An enemy is someone you fight. A rival is simply one you compete with. They could literally become as close allies to us as Neighpon is and that wouldn't make them less of a rival. Their potential for diplomatic and economic influence combined with our overlapping spheres of influence make it nearly impossible to avoid if they end their isolation. The best thing for us would honestly be to establish our spy networks further and attempt to cause further discord between the monarchy and nobility (and the oppressed thestrals) in their country, but I doubt you guys would go for that.

Ofcourse.
Discord got bored and smashed together a monkey and a bull.
He called them bunkeys but they didn't like that.

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Man, those Greeks must've really been aping on Discord's idea huh?

 

[MrRobot]

Kinda the thing about equestria is left alone they wouldn't shake the world that much, actually griforia and neighpon are the wierdos that go around the world looking for EVIL to punch in the face.

 

[jonasquinn]

The best thing for us would honestly be to establish our spy networks further and attempt to cause further discord between the monarchy and nobility (and the oppressed thestrals) in their country, but I doubt you guys would go for that.

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While I probably wouldn't support a plan to actively sow dissent in Equestria I would definitely support a plan to try and nab some Thestrals

Mostly because we are very much a land of multiculturalism and equality because it would also cause some issues for Equestria in three main ways

1) It would be airing some of the only dirty laundry that Equestria actually has, a secret fifth race of pony that they traditionally oppress and keep secret

2) Historically as much as people talk shit about the people they oppress and are prejudiced about they also tend to lash out if those people are allowed to leave

3) The Thestrals are some of the only Ponies that openly prefer Luna to Celestia, or even recognise them as equals, and getting some of them to leave would both make her and Celestia's falling out more likely and give her more of a reason to come to the Empire

 

[AthetosAdmech]

We could try exposing Rose to the Crystal Heart to see if that causes a metamorphosis into a queen. That artifact radiates love magic and is an object of worship for an entire religion. If there's a shortcut to starting a friendly changeling hive that's probably it.

 

[PyrrosWarrior]

While I probably wouldn't support a plan to actively sow dissent in Equestria I would definitely support a plan to try and nab some Thestrals

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Wasn't talking about trying to cause an emigration spike so your idea and my own are incompatible, which I already said it would be because you guys don't want to use dirty tactics to stop a power that could be equal to our own in the future. Different goals and all that.

 

[MrRobot]

I somehow see the standard taste of music on the empire being basically those high energy church music.
Its just easy to imagine a griphon totally unawere that they are wierding out the medieval forginer either by the fervor or by the cosmopolitan culture.

We could try exposing Rose to the Crystal Heart to see if that causes a metamorphosis into a queen. That artifact radiates love magic and is an object of worship for an entire religion. If there's a shortcut to starting a friendly changeling hive that's probably it.

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You said fundamentaly change the nature of the changeling with the god rock of love?

 

[w34v3r]

@PyrrosWarrior
Ok see the thing is... If you replaced Equestria with Neighpon I'd say we're already there. They don't have the land or population of Equestria but they have the development that's lacking and are actively looking to expand, they're actually ahead of us in at least one direction of exploration, and are far more ready to take advantage of the new world order than Equestria. Frankly it's Garrick, and Kyuryo sitting at the big kids table afawk. Rutherford is likely to get priority on development to get his or his successors a seat, with everyone else basically going to have to build themselves up quite a bit first.

 

[PyrrosWarrior]

@PyrrosWarrior
Ok see the thing is... If you replaced Equestria with Neighpon I'd say we're already there. They don't have the land or population of Equestria but they have the development that's lacking and are actively looking to expand, they're actually ahead of us in at least one direction of exploration, and are far more ready to take advantage of the new world order than Equestria. Frankly it's, Garrick and Kyuryo sitting at the big kids table afawk, Rutherford is likely to get priority on development to get his or his successors a seat, with everyone else basically going to have to build themselves up quite a bit first.

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Which post are you responding to, so I know the context of how to respond?

 

[w34v3r]

To the idea of Equestria as a rival in general, they're not really situated to become political powerhouses under the current paradigm.

 

[MrRobot]

Basically, celestia just don't have in her to keep pushing cultural expantion, luna maybe have but she have her own political issues.

 

[PyrrosWarrior]

To the idea of Equestria as a rival in general, they're not really situated to become political powerhouses under the current paradigm.

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Gotcha

@PyrrosWarrior
Ok see the thing is... If you replaced Equestria with Neighpon I'd say we're already there. They don't have the land or population of Equestria but they have the development that's lacking and are actively looking to expand, they're actually ahead of us in at least one direction of exploration, and are far more ready to take advantage of the new world order than Equestria. Frankly it's, Garrick and Kyuryo sitting at the big kids table afawk, Rutherford is likely to get priority on development to get his or his successors a seat, with everyone else basically going to have to build themselves up quite a bit first.

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Neighpon isn't likely to become a rival because, as I said, one of the main points for a rivalry is competition. As of now, we have no overlapping spheres of interest with Neighpon to compete with them against. That could change in the future, but that involves the unknown and therefore can not be taken into account yet. Equestria, on the other hand, is literally just one kingdom away from being on our borders and would directly compete for influence over the continent. The continent is currently our main sphere of influence right now. and therefore that is where the overlap would happen. Equestria is in the same position as the US at its full height, China, or India in that the amount of resources and population is literally so exponential that the only thing that could ever hold them back from projecting influence even passively is their own isolation and lack of development.

 

[w34v3r]

We are directly competing with them to establish trade networks, we're just being polite about it and not shooting anyone... much.

 

[jonasquinn]

Wasn't talking about trying to cause an emigration spike so your idea and my own are incompatible, which I already said it would be because you guys don't want to use dirty tactics to stop a power that could be equal to our own in the future. Different goals and all that.

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I wouldn't necessarily say they're incompatible, sure there's way more dirty tactics we could use to hurt Equestria I wouldn't ignore how much getting some Thestrals could fuck them over in the right situations

Equestria making a big deal about being friendly, open and accepting to everyone? Casually point out the subspecies of their own people that is significantly oppressed and looked down upon that chose to move to our much more accepting Empire

Luna and Celestia have a falling out about their citizens blatant favouritism towards the latter? There's no Thestrals to serve as a counter argument, with them in fact being a symbol of their people's rejection of her and how she might be better off elsewhere

We encounter another species of carnivores or a society with a culture similar to the Thestrals? Just point out our very different approaches to the Thestral problem

Literally any situation where a group of nocturnal flying soldiers or scouts would be useful? Suddenly they don't have any

Not to mention any problems that would arise from a bunch of nobles having their favourite punching bags suddenly taken away or Luna become a lot less accommodating to the people who drove her favoured subjects away

Neighpon isn't likely to become a rival because, as I said, one of the main points for a rivalry is competition. As of now, we have no overlapping spheres of interest with Neighpon to compete with them against. That could change in the future, but that involves the unknown and therefore can not be taken into account yet.

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Plus we're so closely tied to Neighpon that what's good for them is almost always good for us and vice versa and, in my opinion, there's a decent chance of an actual union at some point in the future

By the way @Questor I was wondering, will Isabelle be added to the family character sheets?

 

[w34v3r]

Kyuryo is our buddy, he knows full well what will happen to any gryph, dragon, or divinity that lays a finger on our baby before she's at least a hundred.

 

[PyrrosWarrior]

We are directly competing with them to establish trade networks, we're just being polite about it and not shooting anyone... much.

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Not really...so far every single place for that has been rather cooperative or in parallel. We've not had to actually barter or otherwise try to one-up one another. Happening to trade in the same place isn't the same thing as competition. Heck, we are, so far, not even in the same markets as the only overlapping economic market we have is linens (which is recent) but Neighpon loves our linens and we love theirs so the goods are cooperative for now.

I wouldn't necessarily say they're incompatible, sure there's way more dirty tactics we could use to hurt Equestria I wouldn't ignore how much getting some Thestrals could fuck them over in the right situations

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It's incompatible because the thestrals likely don't have a giant population, being a minority. I doubt they're on the verge of going extinct or anything, but it creates a dissent drain away from Equestria. My tactics advocate using that dissent (along with the nobility) to plunge Equestria into further discord and ensure they cannot come out onto the world stage for another few generations. The thestrals would be a useful tool to deprive Equestria of, but it is functionally not going to stop them from being competition if they were to emerge from isolation.

I'd also disagree that we are a place of multiculturalism and equality, but that's more just literal semantics against your word choice rather than a disagreement with the general idea so I'll not really push that.

Plus we're so closely tied to Neighpon that what's good for them is almost always good for us and vice versa and, in my opinion, there's a decent chance of an actual union at some point in the future

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You know me. Been advocating for marrying a Qilin into the royal family for many turns now!

 

[MrRobot]

As long we can awaken the celestial dragons with the God rock, or covince the sisters to do it.




Also why we would want to antagonize the country with the 2 goddesses?

 

[w34v3r]

The fastest way to unify Equestria and to get it to stop sleeping on itself is to start blatantly fucking with them. I want to filch a healthy thestral population, but turning it into an obvious attack on Equestria or it's rep is not going to end well.

We should absolutely filch the horsebats, but let's not be dicks about it.

 

[PyrrosWarrior]

The fastest way to unify Equestria and to get it to stop sleeping on itself is to start blatantly fucking with them. I want to filch a healthy thestral population, but turning it into an obvious attack on Equestria or it's rep is not going to end well.

We should absolutely filch the horsebats, but let's not be dicks about it.

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The fastest way to get it to stop sleeping is to trade with it further and help it industrialize. Also, the whole point of building spy networks is to be able to do it in a way that isn't obvious. Durr

Like, come on you two (referring to you and jonas). You can disagree with the idea without pretending like I'm advocating some kind of diplomatic offensive rabble-rousing open dissent instead of a black-ops. That's just disrespectful.

 

[w34v3r]

Your phrasing could use work.

Not really...so far every single place for that has been rather cooperative or in parallel. We've not had to actually barter or otherwise try to one-up one another. Happening to trade in the same place isn't the same thing as competition. Heck, we are, so far, not even in the same markets as the only overlapping economic market we have is linens (which is recent) but Neighpon loves our linens and we love theirs so the goods are cooperative for now.

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Getting in first gives a bigger pay off.

Furthermore that's about as much of a rival as you can be while still being friendly.

I mean if that's not what you're talking about then your definition of friendly rival is overlapping with my definition of active bad faith actor.

 

[Manowl]

Um guys them industrializing is not going to be easy Equestria people have a big heart for nature and stuff so polluting industries are going to be very anger inducing and yes magic could help it can't solve all the problems though just ask the crystal ponies or the arrogant wizard slavers that thought they were invincible because they had it but then got hurricaned.....