We should try the not Japanese religion next turn so they can take over the lady religion
Oh definitely. Even if the Lake religion weren't a problem, I'd still say do it. I've been promoting for multiple turns now that their unique level of syncretic belief would do wonders in helping create and maintain a unified identity across our empire even as we take in more people through various means.
 
It also should mesh well with griffonian ancestor veneration.

The big advantage right now is that none of our major religions seem to actually conflict with each other on a structural level. We don't have anyone screaming that their god is the only god or that their pantheon of OP assholes has decided to kill off their neighbor's pantheon of OP assholes. Afaik none of the various religions on the council have decided that the others are complete fictions, merely that each group thinks their particular focus is more important, except possibly the emporer worshippers but I think most people consider them an outgrowth of the whole ancestor thing.

On a different track we can't let the heart become any more vital than it already is, it's too much of a vulnerability as is. We saw how much damage Sombra did with it.
 
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Speaking of religions, you guys talked about the thestrals/batponies some pages back. One thing I'd hope exists or that we can at least promote is for their primary worship to be of the moon and not Luna or the Nightmare itself. Regardless of how the whole situation with the diarchy turns out, having a population that worships another head of state is kinda a big security flag, as big as the Lake religion. I'd hope it would never be used negatively, but even on principle it'd be best if their worship either follows one of our many other religions, follows some unknown pony religion that doesn't involve either diarch, or worships the moon itself like some of the original tribes of batponies do in EaW (though most by then have moved on to worshipping Luna or Nightmare Moon).
 
Eh, I don't think they worship her, a bit too much close contact I think. That said, it's not a huge issue, it's not too far removed from the veneration the animists have for celestial dragons, including the neighponese emporer.
 
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@MrWealthman That wasn't a joke and malicious use of funnies is against the rules. I would kindly ask you to remove that.
Eh, I don't think they worship her, a bit too much close contact I think. That said, it's not a huge issue, it's not too far removed from the veneration the animists have for celestial dragons, including the neighponese emporer.
That's why I prefaced with
One thing I'd hope exists
since I am hoping their relationship is not one of worship or a cult. We don't know what their religious situation is like. Right now all we know is that they admire her. That is also why I mentioned this
follows some unknown pony religion that doesn't involve either diarch
since that is possible as well.

All I am doing is continuing on the previous conversation about the batponies, as religion was mentioned during that as well.

Also, the animists revere spirits in general. That's a heckuva big difference from worshipping a specific person. I doubt any animists that spread in our territory are going to be worshipping specifically the Neighponese emperor because those aspects are unlikely to be imported to new converts.
 
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@Nate700 That wasn't a joke and you should know better than Wealthman by now. They are relatively new, and you are not. Remove it.
No, but as a celestial dragon his words would have weight even should he be a wandering vagrant.
Not really. Neighponese immigrants would grant him weight, but I've mentioned before that any spreading of the Neighponese beliefs beyond the very first action would be in a syncretic form, which is also what was mentioned WAY back when this all first started and you guys consistently voted to not follow up on. A Luna or Nightmare (not that Nightmare Moon exists yet) worship would be equivalent to the Imperial Cult. Generalized spiritualism would not.

More likely new converts would focus on local spirits, which is what RL Shintoism did as well.
 
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Celestial dragons are the rulers and administrators of nature spirits.
I edited in a bit that you didn't see since I finished it around the same time you posted.
More likely new converts would focus on local spirits, which is what RL Shintoism did as well.
Syncretism inherently means they'd take things from their own environment. In Neighpon, Celestial Dragons are the rulers and administrators of nature spirits. In the Empire where there are no such Celestial Dragons, they'd draw inspiration from the Griffon gods, or the forests of the frontier, or the Crystal Heart, or any other such number of things. The whole point of animistic beliefs is that they are non-centralized and have no actual inherent beliefs to them beyond a general respect for spirits. Literally every RL animistic religion changes to match one's own environment as well, and the description given for the spiritualism said about as much would take place here. You are giving Neighponese spiritualism far too much structure than it actually has.
 
In that case it sounds like if it had walked into the courtroom and started putting up charms on it's own we probably wouldn't have noticed.
 
In that case it sounds like if it had walked into the courtroom and started putting up charms on it's own we probably wouldn't have noticed.
The interpretation of what we've been told of Neighponese spiritualism as I've been running with is that introducing it syncretically would be making it a cultural aspect, rather than a purely religious aspect. Much in the same way new converts to one religion still respect the older religion's deities or practices because religion and culture are intertwined, so too would this spiritualistic aspect merge into the pre-existing belief system. This means Neighponese immigrants and their descendants would likely form a Gryphonian branch of the same beliefs that exist in Neighpon, but native believers of spiritualism would more adapt spiritualism around what they already believe and create a mixed religion.

This is in turn why I believe spiritualism's syncretic potential is so important to our future stability (alongside the Imperial Cult of course). While we have not had religious feuding as of yet, who's to say how things could go in a theoretical future under an endangered or weakened government? Spiritualism gives a cultural-religious overlapping between all common religions existing - much alike to what you mentioned of it meshing with Griffon ancestor veneration - and giving them all common ground. In doing so, it creates at least some semblence of a common cultural identity. We do have some degree of assimilation, but the more immigrants and the larger bodies of population we take in (such as if we annex all of Maretonia) the more difficult full assimilation on the level of the Crystal Ponies will be.
 
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Well then I can certainly see value in buffing them and the native griffonian religions next, with the yaks getting the following slot.

I think getting everyone besides the lakers to three is a good goal for now, just enough to see benefits, not enough for anyone to get too full of themselves, and I'd be willing to put the Lakers into the rotation after we deal with Queenie.
 
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Thanks, found it, took a look, gonna have to say no.

It's not got the miniaturization required to power a partial example without adding a lot of weight and bulk.

If we want prosthetics we either need to advance further on the mechanical and biological tracks, or try to adapt Sombra's mind-control helmets.
You really think there isn't going to be a massive taboo to using anything related to Sombra? Especially his mindcontrol helmets.

This is like saying 'when we study the slave halters, we can put something similar on our people for completely different reasons- totally no need to be alarmed'. Like I want you to envision actually giving this to a crystal pony, or a Winter War Vet. It's probably the fastest way to get lynched in Gryphus.
 
You really think there isn't going to be a massive taboo to using anything related to Sombra? Especially his mindcontrol helmets.

This is like saying 'when we study the slave halters, we can put something similar on our people for completely different reasons- totally no need to be alarmed'. Like I want you to envision actually giving this to a crystal pony, or a Winter War Vet. It's probably the fastest way to get lynched in Gryphus.

Yeah, sombra-derived tech and magitech will be seen with heavy suspicion no matter the use, and the helmets worst of all.

We MIGHT be able to pass use of, say, crystal golems.

Tech derived from the helmets... If we make it look VERY different, MAYBE there's a chance.

If it looks too similar... Better to wait until literally every single crystal pony who was a slave under Sombra dies of old age
 
sides, helms are heavy and unless there a reaslly big reason for them, it might be better to do something like nerve relays, a implanted BMI, or even just a crest for a prosthetic. and if we make it read only, it wont even look or sound similar.
 
Yeah, sombra-derived tech and magitech will be seen with heavy suspicion no matter the use, and the helmets worst of all.

We MIGHT be able to pass use of, say, crystal golems.

Tech derived from the helmets... If we make it look VERY different, MAYBE there's a chance.

If it looks too similar... Better to wait until literally every single crystal pony who was a slave under Sombra dies of old age
Even then, I think you underestimate the scope of the problem. Pretty much every single magic user barring Merlin is a Crystal pony survivor, child of a crystal pony, or a refugee from Maretonian slavery and civil war... who the hell in our Empire will want to even touch the helmet to begin researching it?

This isn't just an unwilling populace (who I don't think we should try and deceive on the matter in the first place)- it's the fact we'd be funding mind control research and expecting the victims of mind control to develop those technologies and techniques. We probably need to accept that mind magic is never going to be fully developed and embraced by our culture and society. There's just too much cultural trauma and taboo surrounding it, and our magical academia are the ones most wrapped up in said trauma and taboo. I'm pretty sure from our perspective, Sombra was literally just a random, powerful mage who decided to abuse dark magic, got lucky, and snowballed out of control. No one will want to touch that sort of stuff in the Empire.
 
Eh just wait until mind controlling squid people come out of the ocean taking control of people to staff there understaffed fast food business or something else for people to what to learn more about it to stop it.
 
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Obviously we don't want mind control helmets for everyone, that's too obvious and clunky and stupid beyond reason.

But the interface he used allowed for both scripted and direct control of the subject through the medium of the helmet, an inverted form without the overseer function would be perfect for prosthetics. I.e. the bastard developed a large scale production model for mind-magic item interface. All we have to do is install a version that lets the wearer control their prosthetic instead of a helmet that controls the wearer. What we want is simpler even since we don't need an overseer function.

We can totally do magitech cyborgs, and mentally controlled magi-tech.
 
Obviously we don't want mind control helmets for everyone, that's too obvious and clunky and stupid beyond reason.

But the interface he used allowed for both scripted and direct control of the subject through the medium of the helmet, an inverted form without the overseer function would be perfect for prosthetics. I.e. the bastard developed a large scale production model for mind-magic item interface. All we have to do is install a version that lets the wearer control their prosthetic instead of a helmet that controls the wearer. What we want is simpler even since we don't need an overseer function.

We can totally do magitech cyborgs, and mentally controlled magi-tech.
I am in awe that you think mind magitech chips surgically inserted into a creature's brain are in any way more palatable to the traumatized magic users we would be asking to develop this.

Edit: as well as the implication we could hide this for any meaningful length of time regardless of how unobtrusive the final product ends up being.
 
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Ok

1. I didn't mention a gorram thing about fucking brain implants. The helmets weren't brain implants, why would the less complicated version require that?

2. We wouldn't need to hide anything.
 
I don't get how people think it's a good idea not to figure out how stuff like that works with people as paranoid as our citizens are repeatedly been shown to be right about being paranoid in the first place.so I can see people being uneasy about it being being drowned out by the people that what to have a countermeasure so there kids don't have the very slim chance of being mind controlled like they were.
 
Yeah there's that too.

More importantly this isn't mind control, this is a control mechanism for prosthetics based on inverting mind control research Sombra already did. This would be how we make replacement limbs work without attaching massive boilers, or wiring things to individual nerves, it would also allow for control over more complex magical devices like vehicles or various logistical and command hubs. This is magi-tech computers essentially, with a side order of animate object.
 
Ok

1. I didn't mention a gorram thing about fucking brain implants. The helmets weren't brain implants, why would the less complicated version require that?

2. We wouldn't need to hide anything.
I'm sorry for reading into it, but I don't know what else I was supposed to take away from "helmets are obvious and clunky" and "install a version" in your post other than some kind of brain chip. It seems like the obvious conclusion to come to.

Edit: if you had a different image for the final product you're envisioning I'd appreciate it if you described it to avoid confusion like this.
 
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Well given that we're talking about prosthetics the general shape is whatever the fuck chunk is missing now isn't it? Or the shape of whatever device you want to control if we move into other uses. That's the whole freaking point.

Sombra's helmets are two stage devices. Each one is both a direct uplink to Sombra or a device he carried with him, and the local control unit which could recieve and translate commands either from the uplink or it's built in scripts. It achieves this with simple contact/hostile attunement. If what we did is remove the uplink, and invert the control unit so that it gives the pony command of the device then we have a way to provide replacement body parts for injured people... Might need a bit of work to do wings.
 
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