My issue here lays in two places:

1) We're literally talking about people who cared enough about what happened to their fellow Maretonians to not just join the Abolitionists but stay behind and fight a bloody civil war when they could have just taken their loved ones and ran to the Empire
and they fought, and they won, and there's no slaves anymore. They just wouldn't fight/push as much to convince OTHER PONIES to do what they think is the best thing (joining us), as long as they're not... well, slaves.

My issue with this is that this isn't a situation that has to be output under control, it's a potentially lucrative deal with an island rich in resources and who already like us

It's cheaper, easier and more lucrative to spend a turn in the Emerald Dogs and deal with the Caribou afterwards than deal with escalating situation now
cheaper and easier? Sure.

More lucrative? well, maybe, but dealing with Olenia (which is STILL lucrative) also comes with the side benefit of "defuse another potential conflict", which is nice seeing as we have other problems to deal with.

Also we're not exactly short on money (though more is always better).

I would very much argue in favour of linen production, it's faster, likely to earn us more money, the Crystal Ponies like us well enough as it is and right now is arguably the best time to do it since Maretonia is probably desperate for cheap, sturdy material

You know, I actually agree with this.

Of course Ponies don't really use much clothes at all, so it's not as important as it would be in human worlds... but even ponies wear clothes in winter.

My thought here is that we're doing enough this turn to keep Neighpon happy that boosting their religion isn't necessary whereas the Cult has been just as ignored as them and isn't getting any other support

I'm all for doing seaside shrines next turn but I think the Cult deserves the attention first
Well, I understand your point. I just don't care much for the cult.

I don't hate them, but... I just don't care about them. I CAN see the use of pushing them right after this victory though.

Supporting the Succesionists would not make a full Maretonian Protectorate impossible, but it would make it more difficult to achieve.
mh... important point.

So, should we bet and aim high, or take the sure win? Short and medium term we'd probably be better of with just Northern Maretonia (Less to rebuild, still a sizeable population of magic users to integrate in our economy), while long term full annexation/protectorate would likely be better,but MUCH more expensive and problematic in the short-mid term.

I'm personally tempted to go for separatist support. No need to be too greedy, and it's already quite the prize. We can then use the fact the protectorate technically separates us from OUR new province to push for that referendum and make the crystal protectorate officially part of the empire as well.


Even better, push the abolitionists to separate and join us, THEN covertly support Copper Top to the throne.

We get a province we own officially, and a ruler heavily indebted to us. Best of both worlds.

We can then push for favourable deals, like magical knowledge exchanges, trade, easy migration and so on, plus low-interest loans to the new queen (or even outright compensation for the separatist province).


[ ] Crystal Forests: Cost: 400. Time: Three Years. Reward: Crystal Protectorate develops domestic logging industry, increased logging income.
[ ] Supplying a Demand: Cost: 600. Time: One Year. Reward: Boosted Linen Exports, Additional Trade Income. Chance of Success: 65%
one action is locked (arcane college), you can only pick one.

[ ] Bio-magical Samples: Your troops recovered a large number of samples from both the Ursa Major and the Dragons that you encountered in Maretonia, and Archimedes, Genevieve and Merlin are very eager to study them and see what sort of practical uses they might be able to gain from them. Toss some funds at the issue and see if their research bears any fruit. Cost: 200. Time: One Year. Reward: Possible Applications of Ursa blood and Dragon Remains.
We've been told they won't go bad, so we can delay them if we want. Still good reasons to research them now (hopefully rune sinergy, maybe even sinergy with runic sword), but not essential

Other than this, I'd actually be fine with this plan. Not sure if it will be my one pick, but I'd be fine with it.

I have… issues with that

Establishing a Maretonian Protectorate was always going to be difficult but now we're being told that the only action available to us to influence the situation actually makes it more difficult because the only group we can support are the ones that want to carve the country up for some reason
"some reason" is actually good reasons. A new start, "go under those that helped us instead of those that oppressed us" and so on.

But I get what I mean.

I will point out that maybe we don't want to be too greedy/ambitious. Northern Maretonia, and maybe influence over the new Maretonia under Queen Copper Top would definitely be a good ending for us AND for Maretonia, which would likely get some compensation/loans from us in exchange for the recognition of the acquired province.

Copper Top was our spy inside House White Star and was more than willing to work with us, as for the rest of House White Star there should be very few of them left and they all seem to support Copper Top anyway
But there's a limit to how much Copper Top can OPENLY support us without coming out as "actually, he's my boss".

Personally, I don't want a Maretonian protectorate, but I understand that others do (Imperialism gotta Imperialism after all). My best case scenario would be that they remain Independent, slave-free, and on good terms with us.
My best case would be full annexation, but acknowledging how that is IMMENSELY greedy I'd be more than satisfied with a new province (separatists) and Copper Top as queen of the new Maretonia (as she has every reason to be cooperative in the future).

She personally wishes to see a fully reunified Maretonia. If she can be the one on the Throne when that happens, that would be ideal, but she doesn't want to push too far and send the country spiraling back into civil war, so she's biding her time and consolidating her power within the remnants of White Star at the moment.
How do we expect she's take a "northern Maretonia to us" (from the separatists, I imagine we'd get more of it depending on success tier of the action and maybe compensation for the lost territory), and southern to her?

I'm starting to get the feeling that there are no good options here
there are no OPTIMAL options. THere's plenty of good ones!
 
So, too old to have a good chance of children which is a shame since that ruins the Inheritance idea, but having a country that is a half-puppet to us is imo better than having a single province under our direct control. And its not like we wont be able to get more control anyway, since we can flood their markets during the Reconstruction smother their economy and make them dependent on us. Not to mention the extreme amounts of goodwill and support the general populace would have of us. Now, I'm not saying we should forget about annexation or turning them into a Protectorate but that is a very ambitious goal, and in light of that we should make preparations for in the likely event that it fails so that if it does we still get something instead of nothing.
 
My best case would be full annexation, but acknowledging how that is IMMENSELY greedy I'd be more than satisfied with a new province (separatists) and Copper Top as queen of the new Maretonia (as she has every reason to be cooperative in the future).
Given that she wants a fully unified Maretonia, I think if we had the separatists hack a part of the country off and join us she'd not exactly be happy with that. No idea why she would want to cooperate with us in any capacity other than grudgingly in that scenario.
I'm starting to get the feeling that there are no good options here
Things probably would have been better if Pegicles didn't drop weather WMDs on the country. Right now everything is wrecked and everyone is arguing how to put the piece back together. Two sides want full unification, while the one remaining side is divided on what they actually want, with part of that side just wanting to pick up their ball and play with the cool kid (i.e. us) and leave the other kids high and dry (i.e. the Royal Guard and House White Star).
 
"some reason" is actually good reasons. A new start, "go under those that helped us instead of those that oppressed us" and so on.

But I get what I mean.

I will point out that maybe we don't want to be too greedy/ambitious. Northern Maretonia, and maybe influence over the new Maretonia under Queen Copper Top would definitely be a good ending for us AND for Maretonia, which would likely get some compensation/loans from us in exchange for the recognition of the acquired province.
I should point out that the pact we made with the magic colleges, while not binding after their overall dissolution, could still spread from the survivors if we do end up splintering Maretonia, which might turn public opinion against us even further.
 
Personally I'm for status quo now, basically push for Countess Copper Top to be on the throne and forge close ties to Maretonia.
Generally every major faction is in favor of the monarchy and Countess is basically our pony.
 
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We didn't get involved with or influence the Yak's during their remaking of their government. Why should we get involved with Maretonia's?

I say we just let things run their course for now and see how the dust settles.
 
We didn't get involved with or influence the Yak's during their remaking of their government. Why should we get involved with Maretonia's?

I say we just let things run their course for now and see how the dust settles.
Because they will need our help either way I don't even imagine they can feed all of the people themselves right now for a long time and they don't exactly have the gold to buy it anymore.
 
and they fought, and they won, and there's no slaves anymore. They just wouldn't fight/push as much to convince OTHER PONIES to do what they think is the best thing (joining us), as long as they're not... well, slaves.
But they're completely willing to abandon the people they just fought to liberate to live under the reign of the people who enslaved them in the first place and just want to go back to how things used to be?
cheaper and easier? Sure.

More lucrative? well, maybe, but dealing with Olenia (which is STILL lucrative) also comes with the side benefit of "defuse another potential conflict", which is nice seeing as we have other problems to deal with.
Yeah but the way I see things either it's not a big enough issue that we have to worry about it that much or it is a problem and we're going to have to keep working on it
Also we're not exactly short on money (though more is always better).
We're not short on money but we are about to spend a fair amount of it on rebuilding Maretonia
mh... important point.

So, should we bet and aim high, or take the sure win? Short and medium term we'd probably be better of with just Northern Maretonia (Less to rebuild, still a sizeable population of magic users to integrate in our economy), while long term full annexation/protectorate would likely be better,but MUCH more expensive and problematic in the short-mid term.

I'm personally tempted to go for separatist support. No need to be too greedy, and it's already quite the prize. We can then use the fact the protectorate technically separates us from OUR new province to push for that referendum and make the crystal protectorate officially part of the empire as well.


Even better, push the abolitionists to separate and join us, THEN covertly support Copper Top to the throne.

We get a province we own officially, and a ruler heavily indebted to us. Best of both worlds.

We can then push for favourable deals, like magical knowledge exchanges, trade, easy migration and so on, plus low-interest loans to the new queen (or even outright compensation for the separatist province).
My biggest problem with just accepting the secessionists, besides for greed, is that the best argument for a larger Maretonian protectorate is that it would genuinely allow us to help rebuild the country better and faster than leaving them to their own devices

But if we only accept the Abolitionist land that argument falls apart and it becomes a blatant land grab
some reason" is actually good reasons. A new start, "go under those that helped us instead of those that oppressed us" and so on.
Yes but they can very much argue that without seceding
I will point out that maybe we don't want to be too greedy/ambitious. Northern Maretonia, and maybe influence over the new Maretonia under Queen Copper Top would definitely be a good ending for us AND for Maretonia, which would likely get some compensation/loans from us in exchange for the recognition of the acquired province.
And I will again point out that it looks very bad for us to take a part of Maretonia and just leave the rest
But there's a limit to how much Copper Top can OPENLY support us without coming out as "actually, he's my boss".
Yes there is, I just don't think acknowledging the benefits of the Empire is above that limit
there are no OPTIMAL options. THere's plenty of good ones!
Ehh, are there?

Option 1: We support the secessionists and establish a protectorate of the Abolitionists but in doing so cast aside our defence of doing it to genuinely help people, condemn the rest of the population to live under the people that fucked their country over in the first place, don't provide as much support to Maretonia as we otherwise would because we have to focus on our new territory and piss off the remnants because we've just taken the only good land they had

Option 2: We give up on any form of protectorate and just have Maretonia as its own country but in doing so we've fought the whole war for nothing in return, will end up investing a ton more money for little return, the country won't be stabilised for a long time and there will be plenty of anti-Empire sentiment still lingering under the surface

Option 3: We go for a full protectorate and maintain all the explanations and benefits of doing so, which have been discussed to death, but risk it being a long shot that for some reason we don't have any action to make it more likely
Two sides want full unification, while the one remaining side is divided on what they actually want, with part of that side just wanting to pick up their ball and play with the cool kid (i.e. us) and leave the other kids high and dry (i.e. the Royal Guard and House White Star).
It's worth noting that the two factions that want full unification are by far the weaker ones and even the splintering Abolitionists are way more influential than them
We didn't get involved with or influence the Yak's during their remaking of their government. Why should we get involved with Maretonia's?

I say we just let things run their course for now and see how the dust settles.
Because the Yaks were nomadic and separated by choice and chose to come together peacefully and with little outside pushing whereas Maretonia fell apart completely as a result of a bloody civil war which we had to forcefully intervene to end and now have absolutely no infrastructure or resources to rebuild
 
The best thing for the war torn country would be for it to stay whole. Whether it's as a protectorate or as an independent but friendly nation. The Abolitionists have most of the still usable land and infrastructure, so them seceding would screw over the rest of the nation. They'd be forced to rely on the empire's aid to hasten their rise back to stability.

Now, in terms of a pure numbers game, I think we'd be best served by a secession. We get only the best territory, meaning bigger immediate gains, while having no responsibility to invest money and, more importantly, actions into repairing the wartorn parts of the country. The longer term gains would likely be lower, since we'd have less land and population to profit off of, but is that really a big deal compared to the amount of actions spread over years we'd need to bring the entire country back up to acceptable standards? It took ages and ages of work to get the Crystal Protectorate where it is now, and we could skip having to do that all again by just taking the choicest parts of Maretonia for ourselves and leaving the independent state to work things out mostly on their own.
 
I feel somewhat disappointed in our overall options of interacting with what is about to happen in Maretonia, but will trust our other actions are still felt there (like our ridiculous amount of foreign aid).

I say no to trying to splinter Maretonia at this juncture, since I've realized that the surviving mages will likely let slip our promise not to break apart Maretonia, and that if this nation still somehow has enough cohesion to just want all going back together so quickly, we don't really have the moral high ground to try separating them with intrigue-boosted actions.
 
one action is locked (arcane college), you can only pick one.

We've been told they won't go bad, so we can delay them if we want. Still good reasons to research them now (hopefully rune sinergy, maybe even sinergy with runic sword), but not essential

Other than this, I'd actually be fine with this plan. Not sure if it will be my one pick, but I'd be fine with it.

Fixed it. Should work now... I think Linen is more useful as an export, and more importantly a bulk export, not a luxury good.
 
Option 2: We give up on any form of protectorate and just have Maretonia as its own country but in doing so we've fought the whole war for nothing in return, will end up investing a ton more money for little return, the country won't be stabilised for a long time and there will be plenty of anti-Empire sentiment still lingering under the surface
What? What do you mean we get nothing in return? We'll have abolished slavery in a neighboring country, removed a antagonistic leadership of a neighboring country, will have entirely new markets that are near totally under our control, will have a friendly neighboring country dependent on us for their survival which would then turn into a very grateful country indebted to us because we helped them recover and kept them alive, and as a matter of fact, their would be TONS of Pro-Empire sentiment considering that, you know, we saved them from total destruction in civil war. Where are you getting Anti-Empire sentiment from? They are in the minority, most like us, some love us, and only House Storm survivors would hate us and even then thats iffy.
 
What? What do you mean we get nothing in return? We'll have abolished slavery in a neighboring country, removed a antagonistic leadership of a neighboring country, will have entirely new markets that are near totally under our control, will have a friendly neighboring country dependent on us for their survival which would then turn into a very grateful country indebted to us because we helped them recover and kept them alive
And all that is the absolute bare minimum that a lot of people won't be happy with the men and resources we spent just to accomplish that, especially when if we have any intention in helping them rebuild they're going to be even more of a resource sink for a long time and the new markets won't be worth much when the country's entire economy is in the toilet
and as a matter of fact, their would be TONS of Pro-Empire sentiment considering that, you know, we saved them from total destruction in civil war. Where are you getting Anti-Empire sentiment from? They are in the minority, most like us, some love us, and only House Storm survivors would hate us and even then thats iffy.
Yes they're the minority but apparently there isn't an awful lot of pro-Empire support other than the secessionists and whether our detractors become more or less influential depends on who is actually in power
 
And all that is the absolute bare minimum that a lot of people won't be happy with the men and resources we spent just to accomplish that, especially when if we have any intention in helping them rebuild they're going to be even more of a resource sink for a long time and the new markets won't be worth much when the country's entire economy is in the toilet

Yes they're the minority but apparently there isn't an awful lot of pro-Empire support other than the secessionists and whether our detractors become more or less influential depends on who is actually in power
Look, it not being enough to satisfy you =/ equal nothing at all. And how many resources did we spend on them in the first place anyway? Not a lot iirc considering we were planning a military expansion in the first place, so thats what, a few thousand gold to get immigrants and slaves resettled? I think that you are overestimating the cost and downsides of what we did while ignoring/ vastly underestimating the gain and upsides of what we did. And anyway, I'd say that Anti us is insignificant but existing, Pro us is the majority, Love us is small but sizable, and Meh us is the rest.
 
Look, it not being enough to satisfy you =/ equal nothing at all.
No but when you consider that it's the bare minimum of just about any outcome here it does become significantly less appealing to just accept it
And how many resources did we spend on them in the first place anyway? Not a lot iirc considering we were planning a military expansion in the first place, so thats what, a few thousand gold to get immigrants and slaves resettled?
I don't think we were planning to expand our army as rapidly as we did it, or if we were it was because of the Civil War but just in case I'll leave that out if the calculations

But even doing that, on turn 30 alone the Civil War cost us 9,000 gold (3,000 to speed up the expansion of the army to be done in time + 6,000 to actually intervene) and that's still not including side projects like Hoofbeard's heist, military research, spying or any of the relief we provided on other turns

Not to mention any money we'll end up spending on helping them rebuild
I think that you are overestimating the cost and downsides of what we did while ignoring/ vastly underestimating the gain and upsides of what we did.
Don't get me wrong it wasn't as costly as it could have been but that doesn't mean we should just shrug our shoulders and accept the bare minimum benefits of doing it
And anyway, I'd say that Anti us is insignificant but existing, Pro us is the majority, Love us is small but sizable, and Meh us is the rest.
That is probably the case right now yes but we have no guarantee that it would stay that way if we just allowed Maretonia to do their own thing with no input from us
 
No but when you consider that it's the bare minimum of just about any outcome here it does become significantly less appealing to just accept it

I don't think we were planning to expand our army as rapidly as we did it, or if we were it was because of the Civil War but just in case I'll leave that out if the calculations

But even doing that, on turn 30 alone the Civil War cost us 9,000 gold (3,000 to speed up the expansion of the army to be done in time + 6,000 to actually intervene) and that's still not including side projects like Hoofbeard's heist, military research, spying or any of the relief we provided on other turns

Not to mention any money we'll end up spending on helping them rebuild

Don't get me wrong it wasn't as costly as it could have been but that doesn't mean we should just shrug our shoulders and accept the bare minimum benefits of doing it

That is probably the case right now yes but we have no guarantee that it would stay that way if we just allowed Maretonia to do their own thing with no input from us
I don't want to be rude but this is like getting mad that you weren't given a promotion & bonus because you went overtime. Or like complaining that you got Rubies or Emeralds instead of Diamonds, If the bare minimum is still a good and large amount why complain about the fact that it was bare minimum (Which it isn't by the way, the bare minimum would be a cold shoulder and distrust, or even a outright loss)
 
I don't want to be rude but this is like getting mad that you weren't given a promotion & bonus because you went overtime. Or like complaining that you got Rubies or Emeralds instead of Diamonds
It's not like that though because we're choosing which path to take and quite simply why would we go for the oath that gets us the least after how much the war cost us and will likely continue to cost us
(Which it isn't by the way, the bare minimum would be a cold shoulder and distrust, or even a outright loss)
That's a different thing entirely, that's the possible scenarios of the war going poorly were discussing the bare minimum of it going well
 
Maretonia Civil War Aftermath
@TheLordofAwesome @jonasquinn @Questor Here's a version of post-war events that would more sense to me, given the actual realities each faction is facing. I've been working on it since TheLordofAwesome replied to me about the Abolitionists splintering either yesterday or the day before that. Sorry for the delay!

Factions

The Royal Guard: Though they may have won the war, it sure doesn't feel like it. They've been beaten down, decapitated by the pegasi, and are now facing the prospect of the Abolitionists seizing control of the whole country. With their political relevance slipping fast and fear of increased Imperial influence spreading, they must act quick if they wish to continue the legacy of Mareia!

Abolitionists - Reformist: Having successfully won the war and now in control of most of Maretonia, the Abolitionist coalition has found itself set adrift. It may have held together for the noble cause of abolitionism, but no one can quite agree what to do next. The newly-dubbed Reformists and Imperialists have taken large internal pluralities of the coalition, but there still awaits a significant pool of Undecideds fresh for the taking.

As it stands, the lesser nobility and burghers have begun clamoring for Ambrosia to work towards a monarchy that will enshrine their rights and protections and create a new, bureaucratized system from which the best and most-educated can lead the country. Though warm towards the Gryphonian Empire, they seek a Maretonia that is strong, independent, and able to bring peace and harmony alongside their new feathery partners from the north.

Abolitionists - Imperialist: Having successfully won the war and now in control of most of Maretonia, the Abolitionist coalition has found itself set adrift. It may have held together for the noble cause of abolitionism, but no one can quite agree what to do next. The newly-dubbed Reformists and Imperialists have taken large internal pluralities of the coalition, but there still awaits a significant pool of Undecideds fresh for the taking.

Whether through a genuine idealization of the Gryphonians or a pragmatic belief that only they can rebuild Maretonia to new heights, these Abolitionists seek a unification with the Gryphonian Empire, being inspired by the model province that is the Crystal Protectorate. These ex-slaves and formerly oppressed peasantry of Maretonia believe that the Gryphons have a superior technological and cultural gap that would greatly aid in Maretonia's recovery, bringing stability and prosperity back to its lands. However, they will need to push back against the Reformists and sway the Undecideds if they truly wish for a Union.

House White Star: Of all factions, White Star has truly suffered the worst. They have lost their leader, their forces, their wealth, their land, and now their economic mainstay. Though Countess Copper Top remains a favorite among the Old Guard, such concerns are quickly becoming irrelevant to the new Maretonian political scene dominated by the Abolitionist coalition. The Old Guard that still backs her for a return to the status quo antebellum (minus the slavery of course), as the caste is the rightful way of things. These calls have held little sway and White Star has found itself a sinking ship. Something must be done quickly to save its cause.

Army of Pegicles: Dishonored and leaderless, the pegasi are left without goals or direction. Even with them, they wouldn't have the might left to truly enforce them upon others. The command were killed by Gryphonian bombs, most of the grunts have been imprisoned by the Abolitionists, and a scant few former Royal Guards have been taken by Jewelius to face charges of desertion and treason. The remaining bunch have escaped into the wilds, resorting to banditry and sell-swordery to make ends meet. It would take a true miracle for these lost pegasi to once more rise to glory.

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Potential Outcomes

Rise of the Gutter Queen: Through charm, guile, and a healthy amount of reconciliation and deal-making, Ambrosia has successfully held together her ragtag coalition of abolitionists to forge it into a true political force to lead Maretonia into an age of prosperity and harmony. Crowned Queen Ambrosia I, the future looks bright for the Maretonians as, for the first time for many, they dream of a future of friendship, peace, and harmony.

Effects: Ambrosia is the new queen. Abolitionists are reforged into a new, stronger party with unifying goals and ideology. Rights of lesser nobility and burghers enshrined into law. Strong trade and investment established with Imperials and high chance of a defensive alliance and furthered partnership in the future. Reactionaries and conservatives sidelined for the moment. Recalcitrant Royal Guard reluctantly swears loyalty. Reactionaries and conservatives refuse to recognize the new monarchy as legitimate.

A New Protectorate: Having successfully swayed the Reformists and Undecideds that the best chance for Maretonia to prosper is with the Gryphons, an Imperial Protectorate has been established over Maretonia at the behest of the Imperialist faction. They have a lot of work to do if they wish to keep it, however. Burdened by promises of prosperity and stability, the Gryphonian Empire will need to act quickly to rebuild Maretonia to new heights if they wish to consolidate their grip over the region.

Effects: Maretonia becomes a protectorate of the Gryphonian Empire. Reactionaries and conservatives are sidelined for the moment. Investment in political, physical, and economic infrastructure needs to be immediate or reactionaries and conservatives will gain support. Royal Guard refuses to swear loyalty to foreigners and disbands as an organization - possible hot spot for future trouble. General populace is cautious but hopeful of their new overlords.

Stinging Maretonia's Rump: Having failed to fully reconcile the two primary factions of her coalition, Ambrosia has had to make strong concessions. In return for the political support of the Imperialist faction, Ambrosia will cede a slice of land along the northern border to be a new Imperial protectorate for any Maretonian citizens or peasantry whom wish to live under the empire or reunite with their families in the Crystal Protectorate. With her position weakened by infighting and the fury of the other factions, Ambrosia can only hope she will manage to consolidate her power quickly enough.

Effects: Ambrosia is the new queen. Abolitionist faction in power but weakened. Limited rights of lesser nobility and burghers enshrined into law. Northern border with Gryphonian Empire shifted south to river. Potential for conservatives and reactionaries to create revanchist sentiment to boost themselves into power. Trade established with Gryphonian Empire. Tenuous chance for investment and alliance with Gryphons due to weakened political position. Royal Guard refuses to swear loyalty to the faction that sold away Maretonian territory and disbands as an organization - potential hot spot for future trouble. Conservatives and reactionaries refuse to recognize the new monarchy as legitimate.

Mareia Walks Once More: Miraculously, Ambrosia and the Reformist faction have managed to find common ground with the Royal Guard and the remnants of House White Star led by Copper Top. With a unity government secured, Queen Copper Top has been coronated and the Legacy of Mareia is secured. Maretonia may face a few bumps on the way there, but there is a happy future to look forward to for most Maretonians.

Effects: Copper Top is the new queen. New moderate faction emerges from the ruins of the Old Guard, the Royal Guard, and the Reformist faction of the Abolitionists. Trade and limited investment established with the Gryphonian Empire. Low chance of strictly defensive alliance in the future. Rights of lesser nobility and burghers enshrined into law. Royal Guard swears loyalty to the new monarchy. Imperialist Abolitionists pushed into stable opposition. Slow process of centralization of powers to the Crown begins. Mareia's legacy secured!

The Army's Pet State: In a move that has surprised everyone, Jewelius has struck a deal with the Old Guard and the remnants of the Army of Pegicles to secure the sovereignty of Maretonia against the Gryphonians and their Abolitionist allies. They have crowned Copper Top as the legitimate queen of Maretonia in what has been viewed by Gryphonian onlookers as a soft coup. Facing mass unrest from the de facto reestablishment of the status quo antebellum and the Gryphonian Empire looking on with a wary eye, this continuation of "Mareia's" legacy seems to have a dark and rocky road ahead of it.

Effects: Copper Top is the new puppet-queen. Anti-Imperialist government established in Maretonia. All Imperials are to leave the country and investment to be gone. Authority centralized in the capital. Stratocracy formed. Former members of Pegicles' army are pardoned in return for loyalty. Former high nobles given prominent positions in the new government. Mass unrest among the general populace. Chance of return to civil war should Jewelius fail to quickly stabilize. Possible chance for warfare with the Gryphonian Empire after rebuilding and rearmament has taken place. Mareia's legacy secured (?)

Maretonia's Warlord Period: Despite Gryphonian intervention, all deal-making has broken down and left Maretonia in a stalemate. Such a situation was never going to last and the battered Maretonians are preparing once more for war, each for their own unique vision of Maretonia.

Effects: Maretonia fragments into multiple warlord states. Recovery set back generations. Famine exacerbated. There are no more clear battle lines to support.

Those Revolting Peasants: The ceasefires and political maneuverings have broken down and Maretonia has once more descended into chaos. Unable to stand the thought of further warfare and betrayed by Gryphonian inaction, the peasantry and ex-slaves have risen up to take control of multiple spots of authority across the, declaring themselves to be under the legitimate authority of a new form of government they call a "Peasant Republic." They shall no longer slave under the old caste. They have risen up to create a Maretonia by the peasantry, for the peasantry!

Effects: Mass chaos and instability throughout Maretonia. Continued rise in banditry as new republic struggles to make something wholly brand new. Republic turns inward into diplomatic isolationism. High racial strife as furious Earth Ponies strike back at the Unicorns and Pegasi they identity as the source of their historical troubles. High chance of fragmentation of Maretonia if republic is not consolidated and stabilized. Increased monster attacks (?)
 
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I hope I'm not offending, but I'm sceptical of the idea that the ex-slaves and peasants are going to be all that united for conceding their independence to the Empire. It comes off as kind of skimming over any complexity to create a side that's the most sympathetic and simultaneously totally in for union with us.

I feel like a more interesting idea would be the people seeking to join us being the Reformist nobility who like us for being anti-slavery, but also want to maintain their powers as aristocrats and see our more humane system as giving them that, while the slaves are flirting with Republicanism/other forms of radicalism, leaving them nervous.
 
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I hope I'm not offending, but I'm sceptical of the idea that the ex-slaves and peasants are going to be all that united for conceding their independence to the Empire. It comes off as kind of skimming over any complexity to create a side that's the most sympathetic and simultaneously totally in for union with us.

I feel like a more interesting idea would be the people seeking to join us being the Reformist nobility who like us for being anti-slavery, but also want to maintain their powers as aristocrats and see our more humane system as giving them that, while the slaves are flirting with Republicanism/other forms of radicalism, leaving them nervous.
The issues with that are threefold in my opinion:

1) The faction that has had the most interactions with us and near unanimously likes us are the Abolitionists, who are mostly made up of commoners and former slaves and would much rather we be in charge than the old nobility that created the problem in the first place

2) The vast majority of remaining commoners probably don't really care who is in charge so long as they can put food on the table

3) Democracy isn't really a thing yet, the only place where it's even in its infancy is the Minotaur Republics and it only works there because they're small city states on an island and definitely wouldn't have widespread appeal to a larger nation of, probably, mostly illiterate people
 
I hope I'm not offending, but I'm sceptical of the idea that the ex-slaves and peasants are going to be all that united for conceding their independence to the Empire. It comes off as kind of skimming over any complexity to create a side that's the most sympathetic and simultaneously totally in for union with us.

I feel like a more interesting idea would be the people seeking to join us being the Reformist nobility who like us for our anti-slavery, but also want to maintain their powers as aristocrats and see our more humane system as giving them that, while the slaves are flirting with Republicanism/other forms of radicalism that are leaving them nervous.
The issue with that is that Republicanism...isn't really a thing. Like, everything they would actually know would fall back on to some idea of monarchism. That's their only precedent. That's why I had the only Republican outcome be when everything has broken down enough and the people are angry enough to want to tear down every pre-war institution in favor of something that empowers them. Even then, "peasant republics" are nothing like modern - or even enlightenment-era - liberal republics. They are a historical thing that many peasant revolts during the Middle Ages aimed to establish in attempting to overthrow feudalism. Almost every single one failed with one long-lasting one being a part of the HRE, a short-lasting one having overthrown the Pope to declare a Roman Republic before being put down, and the other one declaring himself Emperor of Bulgaria and going back to enforcing feudalism anyways and being taken down by the Mongols and Eastern Romans.

Secondly, they aren't united. The people mentioned are just the base demographics of each faction and the outcomes are assumed to be after some turns have passed. That's why I mentioned each of the two Abolitionist factions only held a plurality but that there are a lot of "Undecideds" present. The idea with my setup for how I think the post-war political scene should look like is that it should be dominated by the Abolitionists since literally every other group has been murdered, but that the potential for different outcomes comes about as the Abolitionists grow disunited and new coalitions are created in the wake of the end of the civil war. The only outcomes I really view as being something that could happen if we move day 1 are "Mareia Walks Once More" or the rump state one. Every other potential outcome I said is assumed to have come about after time has passed and every faction (and the empire) has had the opportunity for deal-brokering.

Speaking of the Reformist faction, the "enshrines rights of lesser nobility and burghers" is how historical monarchies slowly evolved into constitutional monarchies over a few centuries. Case in point, the Magna Carta was put in to place not by the general populace but rather by the lesser noblemen and the church wishing to restrain the monarchy that had been using the lower class as a wedge against the noblemen and church's power. The rise of the merchant class (meaning the Burghers) was also a historical key point in reducing the power of the nobility in favor of the Crown through boosting the Burghers.

I created the Reformist faction wholesale because I find the Questor's "wants to return to the status quo" faction of the Abolitionists to be incredibly implausible. It is totally plausible that those kinds of nobles and merchants would have supported the Abolitionists in its guerrilla days, but they would be far too opportunistic to join up with what was objectively the weakest faction to the point it wasn't even seen as a faction by the others after the outbreak of the civil war. They more likely would have maintained neutrality or joined up with White Star in hopes of pushing abolitionism from the inside hoping that they can abolish the institution after the war in which White Star wins. That is why I instead changed them to the "Reformist" faction, because they had to have been more radical than what they are presented as to bother with sticking with the objective underdog of the civil war. These lesser nobles and merchants wish to see their political rivals in the form of the higher noblility destroyed by changing the system that entrenches their power.
 
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Even if Maretonia did become a protectorate, how would its government be organized? They would still need an internal government that answers to us and unlike the Crystal Empire they still have their nobility. Would they crown a queen that answers to us? Copper Top might accept it but I can't imagine that the royal guard and every non abolitionist noble would.

I am not opposed to a protectorate but the country's situation is different than the Crystal Empire. The later had most of its culture and structure in shambles so it was easy to replace it with our own and thus less likely for them to want to secede later. Maretonia's southern territories are controlled by factions that still value tradition (Royal Guard, White Star, Pegicles Army).

I might change my mind once I learn more but the best options might be secession (which would make Gryphus look like opportistics and sour relations with every other Maretonian faction) or aim for a queen that supports closer ties and aim for a trade partner. A full country protectorate will likely have secession movements down the line that romanticises old Maretonia sans slavery.
 
I am not opposed to a protectorate but the country's situation is different than the Crystal Empire. The later had most of its culture and structure in shambles so it was easy to replace it with our own and thus less likely for them to want to secede later. Maretonia's southern territories are controlled by factions that still value tradition (Royal Guard, White Star, Pegicles Army).
Pegicles's Army surrendered en-masse and its commanders were murdered and therefore controls nothing, White Star should be freaking dead in the water after losing everything, and the Royal Guard barely had any numbers even before being murdered. Like, my whole objection to Questor's setup isn't that we can't likely have the whole cake (though I would to try for it), but rather that it artificially buffs every other faction in an incredibly implausible way. It's why their rise to power in my design template focused more on opportunism as the Abolitionist movement breaks apart at the seams, because by all rights the Abolitionists should be the only faction having the force to really control a lot anymore.
 
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