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Who Needs Harmony?: An MLP Empire Quest

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Lisain said:
Honestly, if theres one final act I want him to do before resigning for gawain to take the throne, it's this. Get something like this up and running.
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To me that sounded like you expected this quest to end after Garrick pulled off the Equian NATO.

Plus, 50 isn´t that old for a King...after all, Elizabeth II. is still going on after reigning as long as Garrick has lived, comparetively speaking.
 
TheGleeman said:
To me that sounded like you expected this quest to end after Garrick pulled off the Equian NATO.

Plus, 50 isn´t that old for a King...after all, Elizabeth II. is still going on after reigning as long as Garrick has lived, comparetively speaking.
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I dont see how. I mentioned Gawain taking over. Theres been talk of gawain taking over soonish (how soon and if he'll be given full responsibility immediately is still up in the air) so theres that, plus theres still a whole bunch of stuff left to do. I dont see much a point in comparing reigns either. As is, hes been through 2 wars and that is enough for me to think itd be fine for him to take a back seat in ruling, given how much stress directing a nation through wars is.

But that's for later. I was just sayin' would be nice to continue his theme of paying kindness in turn through something like that since jolly cooperation and all that. People are better working together than apart, he knows that waaay to well.
 
So with gawain turning 20 maybe it's time to let him at least have a mock ruling for a year or so to let him get a taste of what's to come.
 
I don't think it's likely to be a huge issue but it's possible the Minotaurs might have their own reasons to dislike our culture (though probably not as bad as slavery). The Greek police tended to be insular and place an incredible emphasis on the exclusivity of Citizenship, we saw some of that where the reward for saving the family of a leading citizen was just that- one of the highest honors they could give. Compare that to our Empire where citizenship is almost a given and we're incredibly cosmopolitan and xenophilic by most cultures' standards.

Crafter of War said:
I would hesitate to say we have all the advantages. Our armies only have experiences against a foe that only knew brute force and did jack shit with its forces except throw them at us. The Maretonians are going to actually think when fighting. I also really doubt their main units are going to be cowardly. Yes, we can counter their mages with our own, yet we have no idea what and how they're going to be deployed.
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That's disingenuous and underselling the threat Sombra posed.

We know that Maretonia doesn't have super thorough martial traditions outside of its Pegasus Knights, relies on slave levees and mercenaries and those don't tend to develop military institutions on their own, and that the aristocracy does not trust each other and is constantly feuding.

So your officers dislike each other, have next to no formal training outside mentorship or parents, and don't have any recent experience with major warfare. Compare that to a professional, meritocratic army with recent military experience, superior logistics, and internal stability. Maretonia is a rich, populous nation but feudalism fundamentally is a coping mechanism of weak central institutions to remain able to exploit those resources. And it does so by empowering a lot of people to exploit those resources and give you some. It's a bad matchup.
 
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Raptor580 said:
So with gawain turning 20 maybe it's time to let him at least have a mock ruling for a year or so to let him get a taste of what's to come.
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Nah, lets give him a business and tell him it is his job to make it a success. It would be a good test of leadership skills as well as management ability.

Also it would be a callback to our origins as a merchant and would teach him some more responsibility while also being one step below being king.

Also easier to fix if he screws up.
 
lockingbane said:
Nah, lets give him a business and tell him it is his job to make it a success. It would be a good test of leadership skills as well as management ability.

Also it would be a callback to our origins as a merchant and would teach him some more responsibility while also being one step below being king.

Also easier to fix if he screws up.
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Hence why I suggest letting him run the country while both his parents are alive to guide him on what to do. He's gonna have to take the throne at one point I'd want it to be while at least both parents are alive for him to ask advice on.
 
Raptor580 said:
Hence why I suggest letting him run the country while both his parents are alive to guide him on what to do. He's gonna have to take the throne at one point I'd want it to be while at least both parents are alive for him to ask advice on.
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Yeah, but starting him off on something smaller seems better. I don't want to drop him into the deep end right off the bat so why not let him run and own a merchant company up to possibly joining it as the owner in disguise. He will, of course, have several agents in the caravan as well as a disguised knight pretending to be a bodyguard he hired for safety reasons if we go this route but it seems a good way to have him experience the life of the common people as well as get some hands on leadership and management experience
 
lockingbane said:
Yeah, but starting him off on something smaller seems better. I don't want to drop him into the deep end right off the bat so why not let him run and own a merchant company up to possibly joining it as the owner in disguise. He will, of course, have several agents in the caravan as well as a disguised knight pretending to be a bodyguard he hired for safety reasons if we go this route but it seems a good way to have him experience the life of the common people as well as get some hands on leadership and management experience
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An alternative would be to let him run a small fief somewhere as I'm sure the being a merchant and running land while similar in some regards are very different in scope.
 
A small fief would be an insult to both Gawains abilities and our trust in him. If you want to both test him and give him a proper scale and taste of leadership, abdicate the kingdom of Griffonia while continuing to reign as emperor.

Also, regarding culture, while the Empire has so far been incredibly willing to incorporate multiple species, it remains culturally homogenous. All new members properly incorporate Imperial ideals of excellence and martial supremacy.
 
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Maybe let him run one on our south-western fiefs?

pretty secluded and quite, while still close to the borders to Yakyakistan, Canterbury and the Protectorate

the areas general unimportance and peacefulness assures that he can get a feel of governing without big problems to be expected, while its closeness to many different polities gives him plenty of opportunities to familiarize himself with their differing customs.

Plus, somewhere in the vicinity seems to be that lake the Canterburians would like to see consecrated - good opportunity to have gander what´s up with that as well
 
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Nah have him run important province, maybe where capital city is located . He already has education needed for it and he will have advisors helping him. It is good for him to get a hand of court politics and get insight of wider imperial policies since most of important things will be located in Capital.

Also running a Capital province will get him experience on economic front as well, meetings with important persons across the empire and beyond from ambassadors to merchants and investors.
 
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So, just realized that I didn't read the new turn results. Reeeeeeee-

'Reads turn'

....

Heh. Heheh.

Hahahahahah HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Ahem. Excuse me.

So things are looking.... good. Excellent. Merlin of all things. Lots of monies. Massive wome- I mean profits. Sewers. Maretonia tearing itself apart. Only bad things are those hazard rolls. Reee.
 
we definitely need to give Gawain something to do next turn. He'll be 20, and he has better stats than us in nearly everything!

I'd avoid giving him the "trial year of rulership" right now, as we're probably VERY close to a new war, but if all goes as expected I think we could abdicate and give him the throne right after the next war with Maretonia, and maybe have Garrick take the role of advisor or ambassador if we want him to still do something.

Now, what could Gawain do in the meanwhile? well, we have more than a few options.

1) We could have him join one of the knight orders, possibly ask Hardbeak to take him as his squire. With his 19 martial it shouldn't take too long to rise through the ranks and become a knight, maybe even an elite knight after the next war.

2)We could have him be an ambassador to any of our allies. Neighpon, Canterbury, Yakyakistan, or even the minotaurs or dogs. with 19 Diplomacy he should do a great job, and he could make some usefull contacts for the future

3)We could have him try to manage a business, a fiefdom or a whole province/state (gryphonia, aquileia, or maybe the new province, Kestrella i think it was named?)

4)We could send him to study at the Crystal University, or work under Ravenburg, but they're not really his strong points (learning 12 and Intrigue 13)

5)We could combine one or more of these options. Example: we make him Hardbeak squire for 1 or 2 years, Once Hardbeak thinks he's ready we send them both to Canterbury as both ambassadors AND help against the local monsters AND to help them improve their army for the coming conflict with Maretonia (also to thank them for the magical advisors they sent).
If they do a good job we have a reason/excuse to give Gawain the title of Elite Knight, and he gains both martial and diplomatic experience plus some familiarity with the way of living of the Canterburians, which might give him some insight into what kind of trading goods they might be especially interested in.

..Actually I really like option 5 (basically 1+2 combined). What do you all think about it? Let's say 2 or 3 years of experience under Hardbeak, and 2 or 3 more years of experience as ambassador/military advisor/hunter of monsters in Canterbury, then he's back home and we either give him the throne or let him rule Kestrella or one of the other provinces until we actually decide to abdicate (assuming, of course, that Garrick doesn't die before)
 
Pittauro said:
we definitely need to give Gawain something to do next turn. He'll be 20, and he has better stats than us in nearly everything!

I'd avoid giving him the "trial year of rulership" right now, as we're probably VERY close to a new war, but if all goes as expected I think we could abdicate and give him the throne right after the next war with Maretonia, and maybe have Garrick take the role of advisor or ambassador if we want him to still do something.

Now, what could Gawain do in the meanwhile? well, we have more than a few options.

1) We could have him join one of the knight orders, possibly ask Hardbeak to take him as his squire. With his 19 martial it shouldn't take too long to rise through the ranks and become a knight, maybe even an elite knight after the next war.

2)We could have him be an ambassador to any of our allies. Neighpon, Canterbury, Yakyakistan, or even the minotaurs or dogs. with 19 Diplomacy he should do a great job, and he could make some usefull contacts for the future

3)We could have him try to manage a business, a fiefdom or a whole province/state (gryphonia, aquileia, or maybe the new province, Kestrella i think it was named?)

4)We could send him to study at the Crystal University, or work under Ravenburg, but they're not really his strong points (learning 12 and Intrigue 13)

5)We could combine one or more of these options. Example: we make him Hardbeak squire for 1 or 2 years, Once Hardbeak thinks he's ready we send them both to Canterbury as both ambassadors AND help against the local monsters AND to help them improve their army for the coming conflict with Maretonia (also to thank them for the magical advisors they sent).
If they do a good job we have a reason/excuse to give Gawain the title of Elite Knight, and he gains both martial and diplomatic experience plus some familiarity with the way of living of the Canterburians, which might give him some insight into what kind of trading goods they might be especially interested in.

..Actually I really like option 5 (basically 1+2 combined). What do you all think about it? Let's say 2 or 3 years of experience under Hardbeak, and 2 or 3 more years of experience as ambassador/military advisor/hunter of monsters in Canterbury, then he's back home and we either give him the throne or let him rule Kestrella or one of the other provinces until we actually decide to abdicate (assuming, of course, that Garrick doesn't die before)
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What about doing option 5 by having Gawain be Hardbeaks squire while that griff acts as bodyguard for either our diplomatic corps or a "leased" mop-up crew to Canterbury?

Out of all the polities we are on explicitly good terms, their lands are the most openly hostile ones, meaning that Gawain as a squire in such a crew would have really good chances to boost both his Martial and Diplomacy stats. The fact that regardless of it being either a simple diplomatic mission or a monster mop-up we are staffing with both our heir apparent and strongest single unit should earn us a lot of goodwill with Queen Chevaline.

Even if things get dicey, Gawain will be protected by HARDBEAK (you know, the guy who beheaded Brochard in one blow as an afterthought and sent Sombra - an asshole that had to be sealed away by the ALICORN SISTERS in canon - packing twice?) aside from being not too shabby in combat himself...he should be fine.

Aside from that, I´d prefer to wait with us abdicating the throne until we know for sure that Gawain can actually bear the burden mentallly...Heck, one thing Durins WH43k quest has shown me is that our designated heir might not even WANT the throne, which could cause frictions I´d rather not deal with for reasons both practical and personal.

Plus, I´ve grown enamoured with the idea of Garrick holding on to the throne as long as possible...after all, he is the First Emperor of Gryphus Reuinited who spearhead a new age of cooperation and scientific understanding, which just screams "legendary treatment in the history books". At least we should aim for 26 more years, meaning that we as Garrick ruled for 50 overwhelmingly prosperous years...the stuff of legends right there, pals.

We also shouldn´t forget that after 26 years, at least the first generation of hybrids in the form of the hippogryphs will be adults and most likely parents themselves, enabling us to gain even more understanding of how crossbreeding in this world works (like, does it matter in terms of viable offpsring which parent is the griffon and which is the pony, respectively?)

Yeah, I am someone with grand ambitions at times...
 
The big advantage in sending Gawain/Hardbeak (and maybe a few more knights) to Canterbury, beyond the obvious, is that by culling the monsters we're freeing Canterbury's army and knights from at least SOME of their obligations and duty.

Which means that they'll be able to commit more troops to the war with Maretonia when that inevitably starts.

Who knows, maybe Gawain or Hardbeak could receive a blessing from the Lady. I wouldn't say no to that, unless it comes with too many strings attached. She seemes like a decent goddess after all.

I'm not sure about having Garrick's rule last that long, but still, the longer he stays on the throne the longer Gawain has to train and learn. 10 more years would allow him to do A LOT.

Learning to fight under Hardbeak, travel to the other countries and make both friends and allies there, learning how to diplo as an ambassador, possibly learn to rule a province (as i said Kestrella is still growing, and it would allow him to both learn how to rule AND to learn how to speak and negotiate with the Yaks, the closest neighbours to that province)

I think Garrick was 26 when he became king, and 34-35 when he became emperor.

If we want to go for symbolism we could have Gawain do his various things (squire/knight training, ambassador, tend to a business..) for the next 6 years. When he becomes 26 we give him a province or kingdom to rule, likely Gryphonia (our first kingdom) or Kestrella (the new province, with still a lot of potential to develop). At 34-35 we give him the throne.

And like that, history repeats itself, except this time the new emperor KNEW what he was preparing for.
 
Pittauro said:
The big advantage in sending Gawain/Hardbeak (and maybe a few more knights) to Canterbury, beyond the obvious, is that by culling the monsters we're freeing Canterbury's army and knights from at least SOME of their obligations and duty.

Which means that they'll be able to commit more troops to the war with Maretonia when that inevitably starts.

Who knows, maybe Gawain or Hardbeak could receive a blessing from the Lady. I wouldn't say no to that, unless it comes with too many strings attached. She seemes like a decent goddess after all.
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Of course the security detail of this posse won´t be just Hardbeak and Gawain...especially if we can make it an official mop-up operation in Canterburian lands.

But yeah, either or possibly both of them being blessed by the Lady would be awesome...both for symbolism´s sake and for the hard buffs it most likely entails.

Pittauro said:
I'm not sure about having Garrick's rule last that long, but still, the longer he stays on the throne the longer Gawain has to train and learn. 10 more years would allow him to do A LOT.
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I am simply leary of letting go of Garrick so comparetively soon as long as we don´t have to...even him filling in as advisor to Gawain just wouldn´t be the same to me.

Pittauro said:
Learning to fight under Hardbeak, travel to the other countries and make both friends and allies there, learning how to diplo as an ambassador, possibly learn to rule a province (as i said Kestrella is still growing, and it would allow him to both learn how to rule AND to learn how to speak and negotiate with the Yaks, the closest neighbours to that province)

I think Garrick was 26 when he became king, and 34-35 when he became emperor.

If we want to go for symbolism we could have Gawain do his various things (squire/knight training, ambassador, tend to a business..) for the next 6 years. When he becomes 26 we give him a province or kingdom to rule, likely Gryphonia (our first kingdom) or Kestrella (the new province, with still a lot of potential to develop). At 34-35 we give him the throne.

And like that, history repeats itself, except this time the new emperor KNEW what he was preparing for.
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You do have a point there, on the other hand.

Let´s table any discussions regarding the exact point when and how Gawain will suceed Garrick until later...for example after the almost-assured war against Maretonia?

It´d be rather cruel to throw our first son into hot waters like we had to deal with, after all.
 
TheGleeman said:
Of course the security detail of this posse won´t be just Hardbeak and Gawain...especially if we can make it an official mop-up operation in Canterburian lands.

But yeah, either or possibly both of them being blessed by the Lady would be awesome...both for symbolism´s sake and for the hard buffs it most likely entails.



I am simply leary of letting go of Garrick so comparetively soon as long as we don´t have to...even him filling in as advisor to Gawain just wouldn´t be the same to me.



You do have a point there, on the other hand.

Let´s table any discussions regarding the exact point when and how Gawain will suceed Garrick until later...for example after the almost-assured war against Maretonia?

It´d be rather cruel to throw our first son into hot waters like we had to deal with, after all.
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oh, we simply wouldn't be able to take a definitive decision about when to give him the throne yet. Not with the war approaching.

What we CAN easily do is start to give him some responsibilities. The Canterbury mission while Hardbeak's squire would be a good first step, though there are other options. We'll see what we're offered next turn i guess.
 
Pittauro said:
oh, we simply wouldn't be able to take a definitive decision about when to give him the throne yet. Not with the war approaching.

What we CAN easily do is start to give him some responsibilities. The Canterbury mission while Hardbeak's squire would be a good first step, though there are other options. We'll see what we're offered next turn i guess.
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Maybe like this:

- the first half he can be combined warrior and diplomat for the Canterburian Mop-Up Operation
- the other half he can run a small business of his choosing
- from 26-35 he rules over either Griffonia (the heartland of our Empire, which should be peaceful enough) or Kestrella (the comparetively "wild" western-most province, which would be a more trying task)
- after that he takes over the Empire, with Garrick being the "Hand of the King" (to use GoT terminology)

should give him a rather rounded ruling education, if we go for this early succession

Plus, he would have already one or two prospective queens ready with either the Brisette girl I forgot the name of or Ki Seong

Both of them would have some boons going for them, but on the other they also would bring some problems with them.

- Brisette would give Garrick a definitely heir-viable queen, marrying of who would show once and for all that any lingering resentments between "Griffonian" and "Aquilian" Gryphons should a thing of the past (to anyone who thinks that there won´t be any bad blood left, just google the continuing problems remain between West and East Germans despite us having been one nation *for the last three decades*). On the other talon the diplomatic boons of marrying her would be solely internal.

- Ki Seong (which is a weirdly non-Japanese-sounding name for a Neighponese noble, btw) would give us lots of goodwill with our closest international ally. Unfortunately she might not be able to bear heirs thanks to being a Quilin (on top of them being a different species they also have problems with fertility from the start) unless we are able to crack the lingering crossbreeding conundrum
 
Ki Seong is definitely not viable until we hear of Quilin-gryphon hybrids at the very least, yes.

Brisette seems more likely anyway from her interlude.

About the tentative plan I think the "run a business" part might be superfluous and the time better spent on diplomatic endeavours, but other than that I'm fine with it.

Even that can work. He could even simply travel as a merchant, taking the chance of seeing what life is like in the various provinces and kingdoms.
 
Yeah, any interspecies-marriage will have to wait until the first generation of hybrids (hippogryphs) can give us closure on the question of crossbreeding-viability.

Annoying, but unfortunately necessary given our hereditary government type.

And yes, Ki Seong does seem more of a good friend to Gawain compared to Isabelle Brisette
 
Silversun17 said:
What about sending him on the tour of the minatour league I proposed?
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I agree, but maybe have a better plan as well. Send him on a tour/mission to all our allied nations and courts. Let him experience the outside world to its fullest potential as it stands at least. He needs a bigger view of the situation, and may foster better relationships. Make it a 2-5 year tour, let him take his friends if he wishes. Gawain needs to stretch his legs so to speak, and "win his spurs."
 
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