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Who Needs Harmony?: An MLP Empire Quest

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x0Nothing0x said:
I got to ask, Emperor Koryu Ryuo would still be alive then, how would he feel about such a show existing?
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He's a dragon, but not immortal. He'll be killed in an unfortunate accident involving a mad shadow sorceress, a literal god of the Sun, a king of shapeshifting giant insects, and of course his great friend and God Empress of Gryphus. Hardbeak is also involved, as she is still somehow alive and a begrudging 'nuclear option' for the Empire.
The ensuing elimination of the publication's authors and people involved was catastrophic, and civilian casualties were innumerable.
The world falls into chaos, as suddenly, the world lost all its genderbent (except for the Dragon himself) heroes in a clash of godlike proportions.
 
Though I sort of like how secular the gryphons have been compared to humanity.

It is enough to make the Emperor of 40k jealous.
 
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Zavvnao said:
Though I sort of like how secular the gryphons have been compared to humanity.

It is enough to make the Emperor of 40k jealous.
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Also, my headcanon is that Griffons (and the other members of the empire, along with the Diamond Dogs, Yaks, Neighponese, and Crystal Ponies etc) all have their own religions.

Basically, Griffons had a sort of pagan worshipping tradition similar to Germanic of old northern Europe, now they have the Church of The Great Garrick to unite all of them in belief. Except it's technically not a religion if you're worshipping the Emperor and His allies, right?

Diamond Dogs I presume had some kind of crystal/earthern worship, but are generally less religious than Griffons. This was until their integration into the Empire, and their own involvement in the Winter War, which would cause some to start worshipping and follow Garrick's awesomeness.

Yaks, most likely have some nomadic beliefs similar to OTL, with sky and earth worship? I just imagined they would have runestone-like marks at noteworthy sites for worship. This is in addition to their shamanistic ways.

Neighpon mostly is inspired by Japan, of course, and would have similar beliefs to Shinto, with spirits and shrines. Not too knowledgeable on that part.

Crystal Ponies have their Crystal Heart as their main thing, being their Elements of Harmony, basically. So worship of ideas like Love and Kindness are pretty important for them. Especially to keep out the coldness of Windigos, which we saw during the assault on Sombra's base.

But yeah these are some of my thoughts on how religion/beliefs might unfold on the continent. The Church of The Great Garrick is growing as an entity!
Not sure about Maretonia.
 
Plausitivity said:
Also, my headcanon is that Griffons (and the other members of the empire, along with the Diamond Dogs, Yaks, Neighponese, and Crystal Ponies etc) all have their own religions.

Basically, Griffons had a sort of pagan worshipping tradition similar to Germanic of old northern Europe, now they have the Church of The Great Garrick to unite all of them in belief. Except it's technically not a religion if you're worshipping the Emperor and His allies, right?

Diamond Dogs I presume had some kind of crystal/earthern worship, but are generally less religious than Griffons. This was until their integration into the Empire, and their own involvement in the Winter War, which would cause some to start worshipping and follow Garrick's awesomeness.

Yaks, most likely have some nomadic beliefs similar to OTL, with sky and earth worship? I just imagined they would have runestone-like marks at noteworthy sites for worship. This is in addition to their shamanistic ways.

Neighpon mostly is inspired by Japan, of course, and would have similar beliefs to Shinto, with spirits and shrines. Not too knowledgeable on that part.

Crystal Ponies have their Crystal Heart as their main thing, being their Elements of Harmony, basically. So worship of ideas like Love and Kindness are pretty important for them. Especially to keep out the coldness of Windigos, which we saw during the assault on Sombra's base.

But yeah these are some of my thoughts on how religion/beliefs might unfold on the continent. The Church of The Great Garrick is growing as an entity!
Not sure about Maretonia.
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I imagine for religion, it'll be something that's got influences from both our allies. Yaks have shamanism, with spirits and the afterlife, and neighpon probably has shinto and Buddhist principles, with kami and the cycles of suffering and enlightenment, along with some ancestor veneration from confucianism and attaining perfection through tao/daoism.

Given that we follow some form of ancestor worship ourselves, it wouldnt be too hard to make something that combines principles from those two to form a religion, possibly with the emperor being the central figurehead. Similar to the mandate of heaven/son of heaven.
 
Lisain said:
ossibly with the emperor being the central figurehead. Similar to the mandate of heaven/son of heaven.
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Hmm. So we would be some kind of mainland nation, close to where not!Japan is, with nomads on our borders?
Some kind of... Middle Kingdom?
 
It actually sort of bothered me how there seems to be almost no mention of religion for griffons and most others (with the obvious exception of Neighponese) in the entire quest. A few reasons for that:

- religion would be extremely important for an early modern era ruler like Garrick (well, if he was a human), as a ruler of a country would, in many countries, be the head of the church (see: England) or some sort of divine figure (see: Japan), and religious duties would make up a significant part of an Emperor's overall duties

- seeing what various species/cultures believed would make for interesting insight; more importantly, they would make for interesting features that we'd have to work around or use to our benefit. For instance, the griffons seem to not bat an eye at inter-species marriages or their Emperor adopting non-griffons into the family - is that because they have some sort of religious teaching that commands them to treat all sapient species equally? Consequently, would we spread this religion to more xenophobic cultures in order to change their mind?

Overall, it'd be a new dimension for the quest entirely, so I understand why the QM might not want it, but it seems hard to believe that we've seen so many species/cultures and none of them had any relevant religious beliefs that would affect us in any way.
 
tapkomet said:
It actually sort of bothered me how there seems to be almost no mention of religion for griffons and most others (with the obvious exception of Neighponese) in the entire quest. A few reasons for that:

- religion would be extremely important for an early modern era ruler like Garrick (well, if he was a human), as a ruler of a country would, in many countries, be the head of the church (see: England) or some sort of divine figure (see: Japan), and religious duties would make up a significant part of an Emperor's overall duties

- seeing what various species/cultures believed would make for interesting insight; more importantly, they would make for interesting features that we'd have to work around or use to our benefit. For instance, the griffons seem to not bat an eye at inter-species marriages or their Emperor adopting non-griffons into the family - is that because they have some sort of religious teaching that commands them to treat all sapient species equally? Consequently, would we spread this religion to more xenophobic cultures in order to change their mind?

Overall, it'd be a new dimension for the quest entirely, so I understand why the QM might not want it, but it seems hard to believe that we've seen so many species/cultures and none of them had any relevant religious beliefs that would affect us in any way.
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Pretty much, religion is an important part of feudal society as we know it, and considering this is a CK2 quest, could be a part of the story.

However, religion could also be a sore topic for some people, and may involve irl stuff that might spark arguments.

I feel that a man of Garrick's achievements would start up an imperial cult within the populace, with literally conquering and uniting the old empire, and expanding to have allies on many sides, and defeating Sombra.
 
I choose to believe that believing in higher powers was a great way of tempting fate during the Discord Era and so it's been kind of weeded out of the general population. After Garrick dies and the next generation moves in I could see it being a thing, after all they don't have the traumatic memories to go with praying to a higher power.
 
tapkomet said:
It actually sort of bothered me how there seems to be almost no mention of religion for griffons and most others (with the obvious exception of Neighponese) in the entire quest. A few reasons for that:

- religion would be extremely important for an early modern era ruler like Garrick (well, if he was a human), as a ruler of a country would, in many countries, be the head of the church (see: England) or some sort of divine figure (see: Japan), and religious duties would make up a significant part of an Emperor's overall duties

- seeing what various species/cultures believed would make for interesting insight; more importantly, they would make for interesting features that we'd have to work around or use to our benefit. For instance, the griffons seem to not bat an eye at inter-species marriages or their Emperor adopting non-griffons into the family - is that because they have some sort of religious teaching that commands them to treat all sapient species equally? Consequently, would we spread this religion to more xenophobic cultures in order to change their mind?

Overall, it'd be a new dimension for the quest entirely, so I understand why the QM might not want it, but it seems hard to believe that we've seen so many species/cultures and none of them had any relevant religious beliefs that would affect us in any way.
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I think the griffins are extreme realist. Or that this interspecies stuff is all too new for it to of been ingrained as something to be for or against.

I think religion is important, but not in the same way it is for primates in a completely different environment. And would of popped up for different reasons.

At the start of this quest, a gryphon would most likely of been living in a village near a dark forest, born surrounded by walls, and in close contact with their family and friends.

Every day was a struggle. Worse than it was for our medieval ancestors, with all those magical beast waiting for them. There is no room for temples or priest in a walled-off village. No one could afford to sit around groveling to some god as everyone was needed and appreciated for what they did.

And those who had been through it all with you, all you can do is hope they have it easier now. That those like your parents and ancestors beyond are still there for you, and that you will be able to do the same in the end. That all they did meant something.

Look at how well the memorial went. At how we did not need to forcefully conscript others after many costly battles, even if war weariness crept up in the end.

Religion and spirituality might be important, but not in the way it is for humans.


But I am mostly trying to offer in-universe ideas on how come religion was not brought up much from a gryphon viewpoint. This is xenofiction after all.

But maybe now there is a chance for a more humanoid type of religion. I am not the best at getting ideas across.
 
Plausitivity said:
Pretty much, religion is an important part of feudal society as we know it, and considering this is a CK2 quest, could be a part of the story.

However, religion could also be a sore topic for some people, and may involve irl stuff that might spark arguments.

I feel that a man of Garrick's achievements would start up an imperial cult within the populace, with literally conquering and uniting the old empire, and expanding to have allies on many sides, and defeating Sombra.
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It would depend on religious tradition, probably. Someone of his achievements would definitely be canonized if this was a Christian nation (as would Konrad Hardbeak).
ConfusedPotato said:
I choose to believe that believing in higher powers was a great way of tempting fate during the Discord Era and so it's been kind of weeded out of the general population. After Garrick dies and the next generation moves in I could see it being a thing, after all they don't have the traumatic memories to go with praying to a higher power.
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Sounds like an important piece of worldbuilding that ought to be presented in the quest
Zavvnao said:
I think the griffins are extreme realist. Or that this interspecies stuff is all too new for it to of been ingrained as something to be for or against.

I think religion is important, but not in the same way it is for primates in a completely different environment. And would of popped up for different reasons.

At the start of this quest, a gryphon would most likely of been living in a village near a dark forest, born surrounded by walls, and in close contact with their family and friends.

Every day was a struggle. Worse than it was for our medieval ancestors, with all those magical beast waiting for them. There is no room for temples or priest in a walled-off village. No one could afford to sit around groveling to some god as everyone was needed and appreciated for what they did.

And those who had been through it all with you, all you can do is hope they have it easier now. That those like your parents and ancestors beyond are still there for you, and that you will be able to do the same in the end. That all they did meant something.

Look at how well the memorial went. At how we did not need to forcefully conscript others after many costly battles, even if war weariness crept up in the end.

Religion and spirituality might be important, but not in the way it is for humans.


But I am mostly trying to offer in-universe ideas on how come religion was not brought up much from a gryphon viewpoint. This is xenofiction after all.

But maybe now there is a chance for a more humanoid type of religion. I am not the best at getting ideas across.
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The idea that they'd be too desperate to be religious seems wholly backwards. People become more religious when beset by challenges, not less; they find strength in faith to go on. If the situation is too desperate to allow for full-time priests, then they'd be part-time. The idea that there wouldn't be enough space for a chapel in a walled off settlement seems unbelievable as well. No walls will save you if you have the god(s) angered at you, after all.
 
On the topic of Religion I believe it was stated that Griffons do have a religion in the form of ancestor worship. We just don't have a piety option because griffons where meant to be the hard choice so the muggle trait removed our piety option as well of a bit that the QM didn't know how to have piety work with the griffons.

So yeah, Griffon religion is ancestor worship, might actually give us a piety option later down the line when some of our characters start to die off, or just remain something that is reserve for off screen and omakes.
 
x0Nothing0x said:
On the topic of Religion I believe it was stated that Griffons do have a religion in the form of ancestor worship. We just don't have a piety option because griffons where meant to be the hard choice so the muggle trait removed our piety option as well of a bit that the QM didn't know how to have piety work with the griffons.

So yeah, Griffon religion is ancestor worship, might actually give us a piety option later down the line when some of our characters start to die off, or just remain something that is reserve for off screen and omakes.
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I don't really remember anything on ancestor worship, but you may be right.

However, can we think of a species for whom religion is important despite not having any magic? :thonk:
 
tapkomet said:
However, can we think of a species for whom religion is important despite not having any magic?
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off the top of my head, no clue.

granted outside of ponies, changelings, dragons, and to a lesser extant griffons the show doesn't really touch on the cultures of the other races much.

I mean the hyppogriffs became fish people to run away from the storm king who was king of the yetis, their are the cat people who if I recall right are basically just ancient middle east, minotaurs show up but are barely touched from what I know. Then their are cows, donkeys, sheep talked once in an episode, goats, and buffalo. Might be missing a few as well.

But off a guess, I'd say buffalo since they didn't seem to show any signs of magic and seem to be based off native americans so it could be they're a muggle race as well and have a similar belief system as american indians. Probably want to ask the Qm first though.
 
x0Nothing0x said:
off the top of my head, no clue.

granted outside of ponies, changelings, dragons, and to a lesser extant griffons the show doesn't really touch on the cultures of the other races much.

I mean the hyppogriffs became fish people to run away from the storm king who was king of the yetis, their are the cat people who if I recall right are basically just ancient middle east, minotaurs show up but are barely touched from what I know. Then their are cows, donkeys, sheep talked once in an episode, goats, and buffalo. Might be missing a few as well.

But off a guess, I'd say buffalo since they didn't seem to show any signs of magic and seem to be based off native americans so it could be they're a muggle race as well and have a similar belief system as american indians. Probably want to ask the Qm first though.
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Found the alien infiltrator >_>

Humans. I meant humans. Us. The readers. Earth.

For every human culture ever religion was an extremely important part of life.
 
tapkomet said:
However, can we think of a species for whom religion is important despite not having any magic? :thonk:
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Diamond Dogs? We haven't gone into their beliefs in quest, so there's a possibility. Perhaps Zebras, if you don't count rituals as inherent magic but rather learned magic, like how humans aren't magical but they can become wizards with study.

Nvm but let's face it, humans are the only sapient species we know of.

*mumbles about the role of religion in an interactive fanfiction based on a child's cartoon show about miniature colorful horses*

Also I don't really like the idea of conflating magic with piety, since they could be two separate things, subject to QM's discretion, of course. People can have all kinds of beliefs, and in MLP, where the gods literally walk the earth, this can be impactful. But how would you define religion in that context? Would it be hero worship? Maybe there's a difference between how fanatical the devotion is?
However, the very act of piety does not grant one powers. Rather, if we take Twilight Sparkle as an example, she was basically tutored by her nation's goddess, after being a follower of her teachings. While Twilight did not receive magical/divine blessings, she was taught through experience and trials.

Admittedly there are no living gods for the Griffons to worship (that we know of, despite Garrick's awesomeness, he is still mortal), but their beliefs would be a nice dimension to explore, if it doesn't detract from the quest as a whole. Maybe an arc about a conflict in faith?
 
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