We Stand Against the Stars (Gundam/Macross)

[Adventwolf]

Yes but this is Gundam. Mechs are better here becuase it is a Mech universe. A normal universe a tanks or a space fighter would be better. But because this is Gundam magic basically dicates that mechs are better just like in Battletech and other mech series

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We are more grounded it is why we don't have a bunch of children flying around in super suits. MS are better generally but they are also larger, more expensive, harder to produce, and more difficult to train pilots in. By having our Starfighter Corps intact and with fighters that can be used we have an easier time fielding large formation. That also gives us a larger pool of people to get MS and MA pilots from since they already are conditioned to fight in space and would have an easier time adapting to MS tactics.

 

[chriswriter90]

Not really the reason that the fighters fared so badly was because they were not built to fight in the conditions they found themselves in. Fighters are both cheaper, smaller, and easier to produce and train people in. With our tech and with the knowledge of how to use them they are more than capable of using them in combat. MS are not the end all be all.

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Completely sidestepping the issues of Veritech fighters and drone fighters. That is the point where I will believe fighters can beat MS in space, not before.

MS are better generally but they are also larger, more expensive, harder to produce, and more difficult to train pilots in.

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Zeon built somewhere around 2,000 Zaku-IIs during the OYW and the Federation built a similar or larger number of GMs in half that time. So no, as it turns out MS are actually cheaper and faster to build than modern 5th+ Generation aircraft.

By having our Starfighter Corps intact and with fighters that can be used we have an easier time fielding large formation. That also gives us a larger pool of people to get MS and MA pilots from since they already are conditioned to fight in space and would have an easier time adapting to MS tactics.

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Personally I think the big niche that pre-Veritech aircraft fill is in-atmosphere flight. Mobile Suits won't be able to fly unaided or without external carriers or transforming mechanisms for another 70ish years, maybe half that with out rate of tech advancement.

 

[manofjay]

So no, as it turns out MS are actually cheaper and faster to build than modern 5th+ Generation aircraft.

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You are forgetting the the EFF is literally drowning in resources

 

[Adventwolf]

Completely sidestepping the issues of Veritech fighters and drone fighters. That is the point where I will believe fighters can beat MS in space, not before.



Zeon built somewhere around 2,000 Zaku-IIs during the OYW and the Federation built a similar or larger number of GMs in half that time. So no, as it turns out MS are actually cheaper and faster to build than modern 5th+ Generation aircraft.



Personally I think the big niche that pre-Veritech aircraft fill is in-atmosphere flight. Mobile Suits won't be able to fly unaided or without external carriers or transforming mechanisms for another 70ish years, maybe half that with out rate of tech advancement.

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There are no veritech fighters here nor are we ever going to build them. Drones are also not a thing the m-particles make them completely unless and a non-starter. Also no the MS are not cheaper than current Aircraft the EFF and Zeon both have much larger industrial bases and resources. They also had better manufacturing techniques that allowed them to build so much stuff. And we can have MS fly and operate in the atmosphere it is called give them a Minovsky Craft Drive. We have had the ability to make them from the start but we don't because we are focused on space, not on a planet.

 

[EternalStruggle]

There are no veritech fighters here nor are we ever going to build them. Drones are also not a thing the m-particles make them completely unless and a non-starter. Also no the MS are not cheaper than current Aircraft the EFF and Zeon both have much larger industrial bases and resources. They also had better manufacturing techniques that allowed them to build so much stuff. And we can have MS fly and operate in the atmosphere it is called give them a Minovsky Craft Drive. We have had the ability to make them from the start but we don't because we are focused on space, not on a planet.

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M-Particles render remote control drones useless, but you can always make drones that are automated. Macross has its autonomous drone fighters like the Ghosts, and Gundam has ALICE, although that's technically still something like five years away.

 

[Adventwolf]

M-Particles render remote control drones useless, but you can always make drones that are automated. Macross has its autonomous drone fighters like the Ghosts, and Gundam has ALICE, although that's technically still something like five years away.

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Any drone is impossible. The M-particles means they can't operate even if they are autonomous which is a bad idea in the first place. The last thing you want is drones that aren't controlled by people because that is how you get your forces turned against you by a hack.

 

[Andy0915]

I've been wondering about the Minovsky Effect caused by M-particles; just how effective is the Minovsky Effect in regards to sensors derived from the Protoculture species.
They use something called cross-dimensional radar for sensors and apparently it propagates electromagnetic radiation to superluminal speeds through super dimensional space.
If the Minovsky Effect is not that effective against the sensors then the Zentradi could just massively out-range us alongside also hugely out-numbering and ridiculously out-gunning us.

 

[manofjay]

Any drone is impossible. The M-particles means they can't operate even if they are autonomous which is a bad idea in the first place. The last thing you want is drones that aren't controlled by people because that is how you get your forces turned against you by a hack.

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Autonomous drones are technically possible but like you say they are a bad idea. One only needs to look at Ace Combat 7 to see why.

I've been wondering about the Minovsky Effect caused by M-particles; just how effective is the Minovsky Effect in regards to sensors derived from the Protoculture species.
They use something called cross-dimensional radar for sensors and apparently it propagates electromagnetic radiation to superluminal speeds through super dimensional space.
If the Minovsky Effect is not that effective against the sensors then the Zentradi could just massively out-range us alongside also hugely out-numbering and ridiculously out-gunning us.

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M-Particles are effective against Zentradi, if anything the tech upgrades you got from studying Overtech has increased the range of humanity's guns.

 

[Adventwolf]

I've been wondering about the Minovsky Effect caused by M-particles; just how effective is the Minovsky Effect in regards to sensors derived from the Protoculture species.
They use something called cross-dimensional radar for sensors and apparently it propagates electromagnetic radiation to superluminal speeds through super dimensional space.
If the Minovsky Effect is not that effective against the sensors then the Zentradi could just massively out-range us alongside also hugely out-numbering and ridiculously out-gunning us.

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Our new tech is based off of the aliens' own stuff. Our weapons the new energy ones are the same range as the Armada's weapons. Our new electronics and hardware is shielded from the effect better but it is still affected. We have a very good idea of what we are facing and are taking steps to counter them. Right now all of our weapons can kill the forces of the Armada it is only a matter of scale and how far we can push our advantage. We have the major advantage that we are not a stagnant culture that can and will adapt and improve anything we get our hands on.

[] Mega Project: The Lighthouse (Phase I of III) - A Space Elevator would greatly simplify our fleet expansion efforts (DC Hard)
-[] Location
--[] Africa
--[] Indonesia
--[] South America
--[] The Atlantic Ocean
--[] The Pacific Ocean
--[] The Indian Ocean
--[] (write in)

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Hey I forgot to ask what difference does each location offer. Being placed in an ocean means it is better situated for safety since to get to the ground side means that you need to reach it first. But being on land means it is closer to our industrial site. Each Ocean choice is close to several regions that can all support the Space elevator and the land options are in a single region only. Since we are building at least three elevator and they will be in a line more or less to match up we need to choose right.

 

[manofjay]

Hey I forgot to ask what difference does each location offer. Being placed in an ocean means it is better situated for safety since to get to the ground side means that you need to reach it first. But being on land means it is closer to our industrial site. Each Ocean choice is close to several regions that can all support the Space elevator and the land options are in a single region only. Since we are building at least three elevator and they will be in a line more or less to match up we need to choose right

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All are locations on the equator, and from what I now about Space Elevators that is a requirement. If it's not, that's why I had the write in. But anyway:
South America is home to Jaburo refined materials and parts (MS and ship) would be readily available.
Africa is rich in raw resources
Indonesia is near to mainland Asia so manpower would be readily available
Oceans get half the bonus of the closest relative land mass, as well as being better defended.

 

[khang]

Personally I think the big niche that pre-Veritech aircraft fill is in-atmosphere flight. Mobile Suits won't be able to fly unaided or without external carriers or transforming mechanisms for another 70ish years, maybe half that with out rate of tech advancement.

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Wait uc had transforming MS by UC 85 some 6 years after the one year war, we should realistically be able to get a transformable MS using veritech with in the next decade

 

[chriswriter90]

Hey I forgot to ask what difference does each location offer. Being placed in an ocean means it is better situated for safety since to get to the ground side means that you need to reach it first. But being on land means it is closer to our industrial site. Each Ocean choice is close to several regions that can all support the Space elevator and the land options are in a single region only. Since we are building at least three elevator and they will be in a line more or less to match up we need to choose right.

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South America and South Africa are the safest from terrorist attack because Jaburo and Kilimanjaro Base are practically next door.

All are locations on the equator, and from what I now about Space Elevators that is a requirement. If it's not, that's why I had the write in. But anyway:
South America is home to Jaburo refined materials and parts (MS and ship) would be readily available.
Africa is rich in raw resources
Indonesia is near to mainland Asia so manpower would be readily available
Oceans get half the bonus of the closest relative land mass, as well as being better defended.

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Also what the GM said.

Out of curiosity @manofjay, if we build at least 3 can we do a second Mega Project to create the Gundam 00 Orbital Ring? Not for any real purpose, I just think it would be amazing to have.

Drones are also not a thing the m-particles make them completely unless and a non-starter.

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Any drone is impossible. The M-particles means they can't operate even if they are autonomous which is a bad idea in the first place.

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Really? I thought we fixed that?

Spoiler: Turn 5 Results

Alien Ship Actions (pick one)
Study the computers (Result 98+10 < DC?? Massive Success!)-To be continued in "Research Report #4"
-Add Zeon Team

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"The alien computers are remarkable, ten times more powerful than anything on Earth for half the power cost. The greatest challenge in getting these computers online was learning the alien language (Prof. Jackson should get all the credit he deserves). One thing that is equal parts amazing and terrifying is that as we learned from the computer, the computer learned from us. Control prompts began to appear in English, we began to get status updates and maintenance request, and most concerning is the computers have started referring to us as crew and began asking for the captain. However it was through these prompts that we managed to gain control over the ship's IFF and reset something called "threat auto intercept", and I don't wish to know what that was. Regardless our greatest achievement from this study (besides increasing the M Particle tolerance of all our electronics) is a new IFF system that should function upto 80% M Particle density."

With regards,

Dr. Michal Chistov

(IFF System gained, Minovsky Particle tolerance of all electronics increased by 10%, gradual accuracy increase for all weapons)

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One only needs to look at Ace Combat 7 to see why.

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And Macross Plus, which is why the next generation of Drones in Macross Frontier had been downgraded from human/superhuman intelligence to dog/wolf-like intelligence, with piloted mecha serving as handlers.

The moral I'm getting from this series of events isn't "Drones are bad" but instead, "Don't make the Drones smart enough to question or disobey orders in the first place."

 

[manofjay]

Out of curiosity @manofjay, if we build at least 3 can we do a second Mega Project to create the Gundam 00 Orbital Ring? Not for any real purpose, I just think it would be amazing to have.

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The time a project like that would take is more than the Federation is willing to spend.
Edit: fighter vote in about hour

 

[manofjay]

[] Name: (write in)

Frames
[] Small Frame (5 points)

[] Medium Frame (7 points)

[] Large Frame (10)

[] Heavy Frame (12)

[] Large-Heavy Frame (14)

Parts
[] Gun port (Cost 1)
[] Light hard point x2 (Cost 2)
[] Heavy hard point x2 (Cost 4)
[] Internal Weapons bay (equal to 8 Light hard points or 4 Heavy) (Cost 6)
[] Internal Light Missile Magazine (holds 10) (Cost 5)
[] Internal Anti-Ship Missile Magazine (Holds 6) (Cost 7)
[] Inertial Dampener (Cost 3)
[] Afterburner (Cost 1)
[] Re-entry Shield (Cost 4)
[] ECA (Cost 6)

(2 hour minimum on voting)

 

[random_npc]

[] Inertial Dampener (Cost 3)
[] Afterburner (Cost 1)

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ok, so the one advantage they have is straight-line speed, these both let them maximize on that. It's 4 pts for the pair, but I think being sure that fighters are going to relibale be a good deal faster than MS is vital if we want them to be effective on a battfleid where MS are present.

 

[VoidZero]

[] Plan Real Space
-[] Name: Type-R
-[] Large Frame (10)
-[] Internal Weapons bay (equal to 8 Light hard points or 4 Heavy) (Cost 6)
-[] Inertial Dampener (Cost 3)
-[] Afterburner (Cost 1)

I'm thinking of something like rtype, fast with a lot of fire power.

 

[random_npc]

[] Light hard point x2 (Cost 2)
[] Heavy hard point x2 (Cost 4)
[] Internal Weapons bay (equal to 8 Light hard points or 4 Heavy) (Cost 6)

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If you don't might be me asking, what kind of things can these bays take? also, can we take more than one of a size?

[] Small Frame (5 points)

[] Medium Frame (7 points)

[] Large Frame (10)

[] Heavy Frame (12)

[] Large-Heavy Frame (14)

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also, what do these frames do aside from set how many pts we have?

[] Re-entry Shield (Cost 4)
[] ECA (Cost 6)

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and while i'm asking questions, what would Re-entry Shields do? and would ECA be enofgh to let a fighter survive any real kind of hit?

 

[manofjay]

If you don't might be me asking, what kind of things can these bays take? also, can we take more than one of a size?

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Light Hard points can can take things like rocket pods, standard missiles, gun pods Etc. Heavy hard points can carry things like Anti-Ship Missiles, Space/Naval Torpedoes, Nuclear Missiles, Etc., Internal bays can not use gun pods.

also, what do these frames do aside from set how many pts we have?

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The frames are what give you points.

nd while i'm asking questions, what would Re-entry Shields do? and would ECA be enofgh to let a fighter survive any real kind of hit?

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Allow for Obit to Planet Strikes, ECA would greatly reduce the effectiveness of Anti-Air Fire/Flack.

 

[random_npc]

The frames are what give you points.

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i'm assuming if we take a bigger frame we have less planes? or some other reason to not just take the biggest automatically?

 

[manofjay]

i'm assuming if we take a bigger frame we have less planes?

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The biggest in game difference between frames is armor, trust-to-weight ratio, and maneuverability.

Edit: Example: A Heavy frame is actually smaller than a Large frame, but denser.

 

[random_npc]

[] Plan Real Space
-[] Name: Type-R
-[] Large Frame (10)
-[] Internal Weapons bay (equal to 8 Light hard points or 4 Heavy) (Cost 6)
-[] Inertial Dampener (Cost 3)
-[] Afterburner (Cost 1)

I'm thinking of something like rtype, fast with a lot of fire power.

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that's not a bad design. Very well designed to get in and empty its bays, and being able to hide whats its carrying is useful. It can't mount gun pods, so it would be limited to low endurance missile loadouts, but I endurance isn't the worst thing to compromise.

 

[michaell8000]

and while i'm asking questions, what would Re-entry Shields do? and would ECA be enofgh to let a fighter survive any real kind of hit?

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Re-entry shields are well pretty much designed to disapate heat caused by entering the atmosphere thinking about it the most probable way of doing it for a fighter would be the gel version from seed.

it's honestly not that useful for a fighter and makeing inbult for a mobile suit is a waste of space when they can use a piece of equipment.

 

[random_npc]

Re-entry shields are well pretty much designed to disapate heat caused by entering the atmosphere thinking about it the most probable way of doing it for a fighter would be the gel version from seed.

it's honestly not that useful for a fighter and makeing inbult for a mobile suit is a waste of space when they can use a piece of equipment.

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It would be quite useful for a bomber. It would let fighters in orbit launch rapid strikes at any point on earth. That said, if we're fighting on earth we're probably already fucked and don't control space anymore.


ok, so I could see some specialist designs being better than Plan Real Space, but I don't think I can make a better generalist. Yes, it would only get a few passes before running dry, but its very well designed to make those passes count. It's a solid Strike fighter that is likely to empty its bays and escape to rearm and do it again.

 

[chriswriter90]

[] Gun port (Cost 1)

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Can Gun Ports take beam weapons & railguns or just machine guns?

 

[manofjay]

Can Gun Ports take beam weapons/railguns or just machine guns?

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Gun ports auto upgrade to the best weapon that will fit, so eventually. Railguns will only every be small enough to be mounted on Heavy Hard points though.

It would be quite useful for a bomber. It would let fighters in orbit launch rapid strikes at any point on earth. That said, if we're fighting on earth we're probably already fucked and don't control space anymore.

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Who ever said the only planet you'll be fighting over was Earth?