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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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And I wake up to find that the gap widened again by 10 votes.

I would love to get the bodyguard voters on side.

But I guess it's not a case that like bodyguard= ok with Markgraf.
 
Omegahugger said:
I do like how one of the selling points of picking Waystones as a job is that we'll want to spend less time doing our job.

It's very squirelly logic without being invalid.
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Not really? It seems like it's almost certain to be a more proactive job, while markgrafin is a reactive one. Being in charge of Sylvania means getting vampire or zombie interrupts that we'd need to stomp on. There's maybe a chance of cultists or angry elves or something if we meddle with the waystones, but it seems less certain. So yeah, I'd expect a higher percentage of the words we get might be about smaller side projects or mini-adventures that we get to vote for.
 
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Because I enjoy counting chickens, I thought I'd lay out a list of what type of people we should hire for our advisers if we take the Markgraff job:

Diplomacy: Almost certainly a local lord, possibly one related to one of the counts or barons Roswita is going to raise up. The diplo adviser is going to be our ears and mouth to the people of Sylvania, and it needs to be someone who knows the lay of the political landscape. Sorry Anton fans, besides, he's busy on the opposite side of Stirland with his own Barony.

Martial: This is actually a tricky one to place. Someone from K8P such as Soizic? The knight commander of what ever knightly order we bring in? A jumped up local with a knighthood? A battlewizard? Who ever it is, they'll need to be good at coordinating lots of different organisations—knights, wizards, conscripts, artillery, mercenaries, dwarfs.

Stewardship: Someone from the EIC. We'll just ask Wilhelmina for a recommendation. Eike might be a bit too young for this, but Wilhelmina may disagree? Could be interesting.

Intrigue: Another grey wizard? Or a light? Or a Ranaldian priest? Someone who is good at untangling vampire conspiracies with some sort of arcane/divine backup. Probably not a local.

Piety: One of our missions is to bring approved religion to Sylvania and oust the vampire cults. Now the instinctive choice is Ranald, but I think we should use Morr, Verena and Shallya as a trinity (Father, Mother, Daughter) to represent Death, Justice and Compassion, with Ranald as an unofficial fourth member to keep tyranny in check, so I'd argue finding a broadminded Verenan priest/ess on that.

Learning: Qrech Someone who covers an expertise we don't, such as law, architecture, engineering or history. Leaning towards law or architecture myself, but it depends on what's more important—actual infrastructure or a legal code.
 
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Fayhem said:
Two things I want to say in response to this, focusing heavily on the location part. One, unless Boney says I'm reading this wrong then having a research institute in K8P will be logistically feasible no matter where we're working, as long as it's not Swamp Town:

Two, unless the Research Institute is located outside of the Empire and not owned by the Empire we cannot have any non-Magister magic users be a part of it without violating the Articles of Magic:

The "owned by the Empire" part might be finagled as Redshirt Army suggested, by having multiple parallel institutions, though that seems much messier and more complicated than would be at all ideal. But "outside the Empire" is non-negotiable and not AFAICT entirely unamenable to finagling, at least without some really extra stuff like "build an embassy just for me that's actually not usable as an embassy because it's my research institute." So IMO the Institute a) should be done, no matter where we go, and b) should be at K8P and built with the Boon.
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Responses brought to you by waking up to use the bathroom, tripping and popping out a lens of my glasses, and spending long enough dealing with it that I figured I might as well get up for a while:
  • Boney's response said she could "maintain her home and friends in Karak Eight Peaks while working elsewhere." Maintaining our home (and access to our tower bonuses) and our friends (and lover, and social actions) is a very different kettle of fish from "run a research institute based in Karak Eight Peaks while also holding down a full-time rulership job in Sylvania." I mean, if Boney says specifically we can do it, then obviously I'll accept that, but until clarification arrives I read the statement more narrowly than you do.
  • We cannot employ foreign magic-users as part of a Great-Deed-based research institute, or have "working with foreign magic-users" be the mission statement of the institute. But collaborating with them is fine, per the quote you posted. So if they're here as representatives of their own organizations and we are all collectively employed by e.g. Belegar, everything is dandy.
 
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Intrigue: Another grey wizard? Or a light? Or a Ranaldian priest? Someone who is good at untangling vampire conspiracies with some sort of arcane/divine backup. Probably not a local.
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Would Egrimm fit? Because the Light College is also part of the Empire's counterintelligence apparatus, and Hysh battle magic would be really useful against undeads.

And being a Lady Magister with the direct backing of an Elector-Countess there's a chance we can convince the Light Patriarch to let Egrimm go.
 
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K von Carstein said:
Would Egrimm fit? Because the Light College is also part of the Empire's counterintelligence apparatus, and Hysh battle magic would be really useful against undeads.

And being a Lady Magister with the direct backing of an Elector-Countess there's a chance we can convince the Light Patriarch to let Egrimm go.
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We'd probably have to spend a few favours to pull him away from Alric, but yes, that's who I was hinting at.
 
Algalon said:
I want for Mathilde to close the circle and step up to take Abelheim's place.
Just like this story commenced with a shy Mathilde creeping around the entrance hall, before The Elector Count demanded the full attention of scene with his mere presence, I want The Dämmerlichtreiter to be the introduction to a plucky advisor's tale of how they will shape the world.
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I found Algalon's argument quite persuasive. There is a very satisfying narrative arc in having Mathilde return now, seasoned as she is.

I think it has to be now, as if we do any other job who knows whether Sylvania might have been pacified? And most of my other picks are at least possibly able to be taken up again later.

People have brought up AP hell as a reason why managing councillors might not be fun. The way I see it, we'll have less time for personal actions, but our councillors will present us with very engaging options themselves.

I will therefore shift my vote to Markgraf. (And Swamptown. because I want to meet those Lizards one day)

[X] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[X] Governor-General of Swamp Town
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Piety: One of our missions is to bring approved religion to Sylvania and oust the vampire cults. Now the instinctive choice is Ranald, but I think we should use Morr, Verena and Shallya as a trinity (Father, Mother, Daughter) to represent Death, Justice and Compassion, with Ranald as an unofficial fourth member to keep tyranny in check, so I'd argue finding a broadminded Verenan priest/ess on that.
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No, our mission is to prevent the worship of proscribed religions (and vampires), which is similar but noticeably distinct from bringing in approved religions.

The most obvious difference is that an atheistic Sylvania is enough, but it also means that if we bring in religions that aren't technically approved but aren't proscribed either Roswita would (for the most part) be okay with it. Like if we hire Tichi-Huichi for some extra muscle and this starts an unlikely chain of events that results in Old One worship flourishing, that would also do it. And be absolutely wonderful.

... I want to hire Tichi-Huichi. Somehow.
 
Omegahugger said:
No, our mission is to prevent the worship of proscribed religions (and vampires), which is similar but noticeably distinct from bringing in approved religions.

The most obvious difference is that an atheistic Sylvania is enough, but it also means that if we bring in religions that aren't technically approved but aren't proscribed either Roswita would (for the most part) be okay with it. Like if we hire Tichi-Huichi for some extra muscle and this starts an unlikely chain of events that results in Old One worship flourishing, that would also do it. And be absolutely wonderful.

... I want to hire Tichi-Huichi. Somehow.
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The Virgin Sigmar vs The Chad Sotek
 
Xepheria said:
Since there's wild speculation abound, allow me to toss my own flavour of it into the ring:




Consider, for a moment, the state of the world.

The Dwarves are ground down year on year, as surely as granite is shorn to sand in the face of an unrelenting storm, as their grand mountain halls echo only with the silence of space that should be filled. The Elves are split and diminished, locked in a forever war against their own traitorous kin as they cling to memories of empire. In the face of four and a half thousand years of decline, the greatest bulwarks of order look much more fragile than they once did. Their past glories are more myth than memory, and the great works of cooperation that exceeded either individually lay buried and forgotten, lest they stand as reminders of what was lost after four hundred years of bitter war and shattered trust.

As the story goes, when Pandora opened the box and unleashed all the evils of the world, the last thing left inside was hope, frail and small.

Hope is not putting the world on your back and stuffing all the evils back into the box; it's not miraculously solving all the problems of the setting with gumption and virtue alone. No, hope is waking up one morning and finding the halls of your ancestors slightly less quiet than the day before, moments of shared laughter that defy the looming spectre of solitude and doubt. Hope is a rekindling of old, withered alliances, that quiet confidence that today is better than yesterday, and tomorrow will be better still.

Hope is an ember, faintly glowing and sputtering beneath layers of ash that must be coaxed and tended to, rekindled into a roaring flame that grants warmth and light to all those near.

The birth of an Age of Hope is a task beyond any man, elf or dwarf, no matter how great – and certainly, greater individuals than Mathilde have tried, and failed. But Mathilde finds herself in a unique position to bring people together, that they might succeed united where all had failed alone.

The last time the great races trusted and worked together as one, it birthed the Golden Age, a time of wonders and legend, of glittering spires and works of runecraft and magic that exceeded all that came before.

An Age of Hope wouldn't be the Golden Age. Too much has been lost, too much has been forgotten. But it could be a golden age, a golden age built not by the ossified, shattered titans of old, but by the cooperation of all, spearheaded by the gall, the audacity of the young race of Man to say 'perhaps we can make it better?'. Such a thing would be beyond Mathilde, beyond the scope of the Waystone Project. But perhaps, just perhaps, she could be the catalyst, the nudge that births an avalanche, the whimsical wind that breathes life into the dying ember and sparks an inferno.

Perhaps such a thing would not be so bad.
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[X] Loremaster-at-Large of Karak Eight Peaks
[X] The Waystone Project
[X] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland
[X] Spymaster of Wissenland

Fine, I'm adding the WP to my vote. Perhaps it is hubris and I'd rather set some necormancers/skaven on fire, but someones gotta do it.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
How is tongs in Markgraf and not in Waystones given waystones explicitly is the one that deals with directing massive amounts of magic in close proximity with it out forming dhar?
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I see it in both choices, kind of. The original inspiration of the tongs was how Necromancy is manipulation of Dhar through the Wind of Death. Therefore, studying necromancy should most directly provide inspiration for wind-on-wind tongs. I see waystones as more general multi-wind endeavors. This also includes insight into Wind-Wind tongs, but more indirectly. Of course, Waystones are examples of much safer, more stable and more advanced multi-wind interactions, which may provide higher quality insights in stable interactions. On the other hand, they are much more difficult/impossible to understand, focus less on wind-on-wind interactions and more on manipulating all winds together / harmonizing/stabilising them.

Basically, Quaysh vs Death-on-Dhar actions. Both may provide important information, but they have a different focus.
 
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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Because I enjoy counting chickens, I thought I'd lay out a list of what type of people we should hire for our advisers if we take the Markgraff job:

Diplomacy: Almost certainly a local lord, possibly one related to one of the counts or barons Roswita is going to raise up. The diplo adviser is going to be our ears and mouth to the people of Sylvania, and it needs to be someone who knows the lay of the political landscape. Sorry Anton fans, besides, he's busy on the opposite side of Stirland with his own Barony.

Martial: This is actually a tricky one to place. Someone from K8P such as Soizic? The knight commander of what ever knightly order we bring in? A jumped up local with a knighthood? A battlewizard? Who ever it is, they'll need to be good at coordinating lots of different organisations—knights, wizards, conscripts, artillery, mercenaries, dwarfs.

Stewardship: Someone from the EIC. We'll just ask Wilhelmina for a recommendation. Eike might be a bit too young for this, but Wilhelmina may disagree? Could be interesting.

Intrigue: Another grey wizard? Or a light? Or a Ranaldian priest? Someone who is good at untangling vampire conspiracies with some sort of arcane/divine backup. Probably not a local.

Piety: One of our missions is to bring approved religion to Sylvania and oust the vampire cults. Now the instinctive choice is Ranald, but I think we should use Morr, Verena and Shallya as a trinity (Father, Mother, Daughter) to represent Death, Justice and Compassion, with Ranald as an unofficial fourth member to keep tyranny in check, so I'd argue finding a broadminded Verenan priest/ess on that.

Learning: Qrech Someone who covers an expertise we don't, such as law, architecture, engineering or history. Leaning towards law or architecture myself, but it depends on what's more important—actual infrastructure or a legal code.
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There is a certain veteran of the K8P reclamation who happens to be a specialist for Sylvania. He seems like a good fit for one of the seats. :V

The diplomacy choice is actually very interesting. We aren't actually forced to appease our own nobles. They are one of the groups that liked the vampire rule and they also shouldn't actually have any nasty allies to the surrounding empire yet. Instead we will mostly need someone who can talk to the actual populace and the surrounding rulers. These two skillets don't have much overlap, which will make the process of picking a person very fun.
 
Burned_Cookie said:
Fine, I'm adding the WP to my vote. Perhaps it is hubris and I'd rather set some necormancers/skaven on fire, but someones gotta do it.
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Somebody is going to do it. If we decide against it, someone else will pick it up. We're just deciding if we want to use our skills, connections and resources to initiate and then lead the project, not whether or not the project happens at all.

Now, one valid argument for it is that the person who picks it up won't be as skilled, connected or as resourceful as we are, and as such they'll have much lower chances of success. But the way I see it is that our chances of success are not guaranteed either. Higher, yeah sure, but I'm low key worried that we'll pump ten years into this and not achieve much of note. The other jobs have more... concrete goals and payoffs.

Then again, maybe I'm worried for no reason and we'll be able to usher in a new golden age for three different civilisations. It's a gamble.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
And I wake up to find that the gap widened again by 10 votes.

I would love to get the bodyguard voters on side.

But I guess it's not a case that like bodyguard= ok with Markgraf.
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Speaking for myself, I think Priest> bodyguard > everything else >>> sinecure, but I am not approval voting priest cuz I think jumping blind is a bad idea even for a Ranaldite.

So I wouldn't change to Margraff or approval it, because to me it is equally desirable as Waystone and LaL, and as bodyguard is fourth, it would only decrease its chances even further (it still has a shot, even if it is a small shot, votes change and a good argument may overturn things, if only I or someone else could think of one that hasn't been said. Still, its not over until Boney calls it)
 
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The only thing I would be genuinely unhappy with winning, rather than merely unenthused about, is sinecure. Happily, Sinecure is dead last.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Somebody is going to do it. If we decide against it, someone else will pick it up. We're just deciding if we want to use our skills, connections and resources to initiate and then lead the project, not whether or not the project happens at all.

Now, one valid argument for it is that the person who picks it up won't be as skilled, connected or as resourceful as we are, and as such they'll have much lower chances of success. But the way I see it is that our chances of success are not guaranteed either. Higher, yeah sure, but I'm low key worried that we'll pump ten years into this and not achieve much of note. The other jobs have more... concrete goals and payoffs.

Then again, maybe I'm worried for no reason and we'll be able to usher in a new golden age for three different civilisations. It's a gamble.
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I mean, we don't actually have to change the world to have fun either.
Karak eight peaks went astoundingly well, almost beyond belief.
Same as Vlag.

Expecting to obtain positive results of that magnitude consistently is not likely.
Like Karag Dum, there are some things we can't do anything about because they are random.

With waystones, you could end up south a situation where no one wants to collaborate and end up not achieving much.

With Sylvania, you could wind up with the citizens completely unwilling to cooperate, and never be able to advance beyond being a military overlord, constantly kicking vamps off your lawn.

All the scenarios have a possibility of being a dead end: if we reach the point where its no longer interesting, there's always new fires to put out in the old world.
 
I suspect the first result of the waystone project will be improved methods for dealing with corrupted and blocked waystones with tips how to handle them that include this is not something a mage can fix contact a runesmith if you see X happening and priest are needed to deal with issue Y. As each waystone unblocked or cleansed will decrease the amount of Dhar in the world and therefore weaken demons only minor progress can help a lot even if we never learn how to fix broken waystones.
If the runesmiths know how to preform some repairs and or maintenance watching that could teach someone they trust enough to be allowed to observe with magesight a lot.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Somebody is going to do it. If we decide against it, someone else will pick it up. We're just deciding if we want to use our skills, connections and resources to initiate and then lead the project, not whether or not the project happens at all.
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The 'Waystone Project', envisioned as a collaboration between the Eonir, Colleges of Magic and Runelords of the Karaz Ankor, is flatly impossible to get off the ground without Mathilde - there will be no one else putting it together if we choose not to take it.

That's not to say that people won't try of their own accord - they have been, for the past four and a half thousand years, and they have, without exception, failed. The whole point is to bring these disparate groups of people together - as Boney put it, 'so that together they might succeed where all had failed'.

There is no one else but Mathilde with the specific expertise, connections and most importantly, trust, to start such a project, and if there were, the world would be a very different place. Moreover, idea that it'll be done without her is flat out wrong, and has been refuted many times. To say Mathilde is second only to Sigmar in terms of dwarven respect is not an exaggeration, and Sigmar isn't exactly alive and kicking on the mortal plane these days.
 
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storryeater said:
Speaking for myself, I think Priest> bodyguard > everything else >>> sinecure, but I am not approval voting priest cuz I think jumping blind is a bad idea even for a Ranaldite.

So I wouldn't change to Margraff or approval it, because to me it is equally desirable as Waystone and LaL, and as bodyguard is fourth, it would only decrease its chances even further (it still has a shot, even if it is a small shot, votes change and a good argument may overturn things, if only I or someone else could think of one that hasn't been said. Still, its not over until Boney calls it)
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Right now waystones has a 1.8% lead that makes the vote quite stagnant. All the volatility generated by a bunch of nerds trying to outsmart each other with strategic approval voting has disappeared.
Making the vote closer in general would thus benefit the fourth place more. If the current current gap disappears we will be back in four-sided coin-toss land unless people are to tired to keep up the shenanigans.
 
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