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Substance of Shadow is a fiendishly complex magic spell. Which means that only those who have reached the level of Magister lords or are battle wizards have the ability to use it reliably. It's meant to be really strong. A small percentage of a small percentage will ever be able to cast it reliably.
I think he was talking about the physics questions that would arise; for instance, if you shunt a body into the floor, what happens when it turns substantial? Does it displace the material? Is it displaced? They can't both occupy the same space, outside of Chaos bullshit.
 
I think he was talking about the physics questions that would arise; for instance, if you shunt a body into the floor, what happens when it turns substantial? Does it displace the material? Is it displaced? They can't both occupy the same space, outside of Chaos bullshit.
Well, actually they really can. Ninety-nine percent of everything is basically empty space, so it's not much of a stretch to say that they just fuse together or something.

Good luck getting anything back from something like that, though.
 
I think he was talking about the physics questions that would arise; for instance, if you shunt a body into the floor, what happens when it turns substantial? Does it displace the material? Is it displaced? They can't both occupy the same space, outside of Chaos bullshit.
Both parts would likely be compressed and mangled. Think metamorphic rocks, but with flesh and bone.
 
Well, actually they really can. Ninety-nine percent of everything is basically empty space, so it's not much of a stretch to say that they just fuse together or something.

Good luck getting anything back from something like that, though.
That empty space is still there for a reason, though; that's more getting into atoms and crap, but you can't just shove one atom inside another and have it work out in reality.

Look, if the answer for this is "Magic!", I fully understand that, I'm just wondering.
 
Substance of Shadow is a fiendishly complex magic spell. Which means that only those who have reached the level of Magister lords or are battle wizards have the ability to use it reliably. It's meant to be really strong. A small percentage of a small percentage will ever be able to cast it reliably.

It's also an incredibly niche spell that can only be cast in very particular circumstances, where an object is in absolute darkness but there is still a light source present to cast a shadow.

Without special effort to manufacture, them such situations would be vanishingly rare, so it makes sense the spell would be powerful. You need something like a new moon night in a forest and someone else carrying a single torch to create the required shadows, or being underground where there's only a single point source of light and plenty of obstacles.

Otherwise you end up with illumination from somewhere.
 
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Substance of Shadow is unusual for a lot of reasons, but one way is that it can last indefinitely. It doesn't have a time limit, it lasts until the object is illuminated, and if it is never illuminated the spell will never end. And an incorporeal object that has been pushed into solid stone will not be illuminated.

The only downside is that if anyone ever tries to excavate the exact place where that body is buried, it may go very poorly indeed for them.
 
The only downside is that if anyone ever tries to excavate the exact place where that body is buried, it may go very poorly indeed for them.

That sounds like a way to make very nasty land mines, by placing shadow-substanced items just beneath the surface of soil that would be churned up by say, a unit of soldiers marching over it.

Removing the land mines would be a nightmare though. You'd probably need artillery.
 
Substance of Shadow is unusual for a lot of reasons, but one way is that it can last indefinitely. It doesn't have a time limit, it lasts until the object is illuminated, and if it is never illuminated the spell will never end. And an incorporeal object that has been pushed into solid stone will not be illuminated.

The only downside is that if anyone ever tries to excavate the exact place where that body is buried, it may go very poorly indeed for them.

Ah, neat.

Corpses hidden in walls and such, that erupt horribly if you ever do some light renovation. This sounds like the sort of thing most people would perceive as necromancy. Erroneously, of course! It's merely a practical expression of shadow magic!
That sounds like a way to make very nasty land mines, by placing shadow-substanced items just beneath the surface of soil that would be churned up by say, a unit of soldiers marching over it.

Removing the land mines would be a nightmare though. You'd probably need artillery.

...and there's that. Oh god.
 
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Substance of Shadow is unusual for a lot of reasons, but one way is that it can last indefinitely. It doesn't have a time limit, it lasts until the object is illuminated, and if it is never illuminated the spell will never end. And an incorporeal object that has been pushed into solid stone will not be illuminated.

The only downside is that if anyone ever tries to excavate the exact place where that body is buried, it may go very poorly indeed for them.
Do the objects have inertia? Like, if you put something in a really thick door, then swing the door outward, would the object travel with the door or stay where it was?
 
Do the objects have inertia? Like, if you put something in a really thick door, then swing the door outward, would the object travel with the door or stay where it was?

I think it's up to the caster who put the object inside. The shadow substance interacts with the physical world selectively, so if the Magister wanted it to, it would move with the door, and if it didn't, it wouldn't.

It would be a hilarious way to boobytrap doors though, so when someone opened them the object embedded inside was partially exposed and the rest exploded.

It would be an interesting way to have sabotaged the doom diver catapults as well, to make them explode when the arms were pulled back and exposes the object hidden inside them.
 
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Substance of Shadow is unusual for a lot of reasons, but one way is that it can last indefinitely. It doesn't have a time limit, it lasts until the object is illuminated, and if it is never illuminated the spell will never end. And an incorporeal object that has been pushed into solid stone will not be illuminated.

The only downside is that if anyone ever tries to excavate the exact place where that body is buried, it may go very poorly indeed for them.
That actually sounds really useful, since we're about to get into a tunnel war. Skaven do like to tunnel in, and this would be one way to ensure that they'd regret breaching a wall.
 
All of that does not change the fact that Substance of Shadows is very complex and very dangerous spell. It is not something that can be cast as routine, dozens of times at once. One trap is OK. Hundred traps are less so.

This puts serious limits on practical uses of Substance of Shadows.
 
The more one looks at Substance of Shadow, and think about the possible ways to use it's niche abilities, the more horrified about its potential uses one becomes.
 
Do the objects have inertia? Like, if you put something in a really thick door, then swing the door outward, would the object travel with the door or stay where it was?

Due to its very nature, magic will not react consistently when it has a disagreement with physics. It's one thing to dump someone in the floor when they'd be Not Your Problem if they ever did get dug up again, but experimenting with what "incorporeal" means to physics at arm's length would be a bad idea. There's a bunch of different ways physics can react when SoS breaks and suddenly two objects are trying to occupy the same location, and one of them involves a very short lesson in E = mc².
 
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[X] Having successfully escaped, you can now move on...
-[X] To the Temple of Grungni, to check if the holy place remains undesecrated.

Gonna be honest killing an at best mid management goblin was a dangerous waste.
 
[X] Having successfully escaped, you can now move on...
-[X] To the Temple of Grungni, to check if the holy place remains undesecrated.

Gonna be honest killing an at best mid management goblin was a dangerous waste.
potentially, but it could have also caused a skaven/goblin war right as the dwarfs were coming in, allowing for a significantly easier breaching of the places defenses. It was a risk, one that didn't work out too well. But that could have been way worse. Especially since we managed to get a mastery out of it.
 
Gonna be honest killing an at best mid management goblin was a dangerous waste.
At best this was the tribe's ruler. Now, I don't think that is likely, but what Boney said was: "...unless the Crooked Moon are a pretty minor tribe there's probably a bigger fish" meaning it is possible there's not a bigger fish.

We'll find out eventually, I'm sure.
 
[X] Having successfully escaped, you can now move on...
-[X] To the Temple of Grungni, to check if the holy place remains undesecrated.

Speaking of, we really need Mathilde to get a proper long-range rifle because we're setting her up to be a really good sniper.
So we can still loot them, excellent.

Jack of all trades, master of none.
Mathilda has no training with long-arms. She doesn't own a long-arm. The long-arm she doesn't currently have isn't enchanted. Meaning we would need to invest an absolute minimum of three actions to become a sniper. The skill and enchanting mechanics being what they are we would probably have to invest nearer to ten actions to become a good sniper.

I agree that we'd be stretched a number of ways, but I think a Grey Magister like Mathilde has more business with a sniper rifle than she does with a greatsword (though I do not regret the greatsword in the least). Even leaving aside that becoming proficient with new weapons is one way of raising our Martial (and thus indirectly helping us become more proficient with all weapons), having a long range rifle lets us threaten people at long range. Imagine taking on that dragon-ogre with a Hochland Long Rifle, but silenced and full of magic bullets. People would have been a bit more willing to kill the monster then, I imagine.

I put forth for the thread's consideration another weapon to gain some basic proficiency with; grenades. It's something of a specialty weapon these days, but I imagine Zhufbar has a few they'd be welling to sell to a dwarf-friend like Mathilde. I have three types in mind; incendiary grenades, for situations where either she really needs a fire and doesn't have time to bother with flint and steel (a weapon that ought have been useful most stages of this infiltration, from sabotaging the doom-divers to chucking in the pit full of hundreds of orcs), and between fire's tendencies to cast shadows and Mathilde's wonderful belt Kragg made for her ("It's not a friendship bracelet sized for an ogre, it's a rune-struck belt meant to keep you from blowing yourself up where we'll have to deal with it. Harumph.") which might let her be a bit more cavalier about splash damage. (I don't actually know that the dawi have these grenades, but given the simplicity of Molotov cocktails and the existance of irondrakes I think it falls into a reasonable niche.

Secondly, smoke bombs. They're mentioned both in Vermintide 2 and Total War: Warhammer as being options for selected dwarfs (the ranger variant of Bardin and Grombrindal respectively, if you care) so there's canonical evidence supporting their existence if not their proliferation if you care about such things. This shouldn't be a hard sell; in addition to their utility in breaking contact with hostile pursuers (like we had recently), it fits thematically with the wind of Ulgu, so there's a good chance Dame Weber could fight on like normal through the smoke while also encouraging the grey wind to flow a bit more strongly in the local area. With the possible exception of smoke inhalation, I don't see an immediate drawback to using these.

Lastly, a more nebulous 'mission-oriented' grenade type that I'm mentally pidgeonholing as some sort of anti-structure or war machine explosive. I doubt we'd get those without a good reason, but like with the sniper rifle a satchel charge shouldn't be too hard to explain for a saboteur wizard.

For a slight change in topic, I think we should loan out our torc to an allied human group. I'm personally thinking the Nordlander/Ulrican forces but I'm willing to be persuaded. As I see it, spreading more fear causing effects through the expedition means we're more likely to have it in place when and where we need it against greenskins and Skaven (both armies being susceptible to routes), but Mathilde causes Terror, not Fear (which is the superior form of morale damage here), and while an argument can be made that with her 10 diplomacy she'd need all the help she could get if she did need to rally troops, she doesn't really have troops she needs to rally while other human forces are expected to go into melee against monsters, and the combination of stiffening human spines while breaking greenskin morale ought to help win more fronts, leading to more winning overall. And if we explicitly make it a loan we can get it back afterwards, and I doubt anyone's particularly eager to disappoint the tiny, frightening murder machine.

Tangentially related, but what would the Colleges' reaction to Magister Weber making magic items and distributing them throughout the expedition be? "Dangerous proliferation of magic outside the Colleges' control", "so long as she picks them back up", "hey when you're done with that we'd give favors for using them elsewhere"...?

Also, does Mathilde have the ability to make magical banners right now? Something like "banner of blessed weapons; all hand weapons count as magical" seem like they'd be helpful for the Knights of Morr when they need to charge cairn wraiths again, and while I doubt we could pull off a Wailing Banner at the moment it does seem like something to strive for.
 
Tangentially related, but what would the Colleges' reaction to Magister Weber making magic items and distributing them throughout the expedition be? "Dangerous proliferation of magic outside the Colleges' control", "so long as she picks them back up", "hey when you're done with that we'd give favors for using them elsewhere"...?

If it's to allies that would seem like legitimate allies in the mainstream view of the Empire, and they remain allies and don't do anything mischievous with the items, that's acceptable. But any unforeseen consequences will be entirely upon your head.

Also, does Mathilde have the ability to make magical banners right now? Something like "banner of blessed weapons; all hand weapons count as magical" seem like they'd be helpful for the Knights of Morr when they need to charge cairn wraiths again, and while I doubt we could pull off a Wailing Banner at the moment it does seem like something to strive for.

You would need to do a lot of research first. Banners are extremely psychologically important to those that they represent, and most would rather have their banners blessed with holy magic rather than tainted with College magic. When they do go to the Colleges, the Grey and the Amethyst are the least likely to be called upon. So it's pretty likely you'd have to basically reinvent them from the ground up.

Is it possible to change the form of Shadowsteed from a Horse to a Demigryph?

Not that you know of.
 
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