That's a fair point but still
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Earth
[x] THEORY: The dwarves of Karag Dum are alive and uncorrupted by Chaos, but have resorted to truly drastic measures to survive, probably undertaken by their controversial "Rune Masters", which involves having these beastmen or beastmen-appearing creatures defending the karak for the dwarves. We can assume that this is all in favour of the dwarves by Morghur's easy acceptance and non-destruction of Borek as well as Borek's mutual acceptance of the beastman. The idea of Rune Masters being critically involved is the certainty that some form of magic was used to create this whole situation, including the odd weather, and the Rune Masters' lack of corruption is supported by the lesser level of ambient dark magic in the area, even directly around Morghur himself.
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[x] [THEORY]: There are no dwarves to save. Either the "Cor-Dum" we saw is somehow fake, in which case the dwarves hold the place, and need no help holding it; Cor-Dum is real and allied somehow with the dwarves, in which case the dwarves are not worth our trouble as they have allied with chaos; or Cor-Dum is real and conquered Karag Dum, in which case there are no dwarves left to save.
[x] THEORY: Physical signs point to Morghur having been holding the area against nomad raiders for a very long time, and history implies that he's not been seen in the old world since approximately when Karag Dum would have come under attack during the Great War against Chaos. He's been here this whole time.
[x] THEORY: The crater and missing mountains are due to Morghur translocating or teleporting here. Physical signs point to Morghur having been holding the area against nomad raiders for a very long time, and history implies that he's not been seen in the old world since approximately when Karag Dum would have come under attack during the Great War against Chaos. He's been here this whole time. Magical signs and, less reliably, intuition about Borek, point to there being something uncorrupted in that mountain in the middle. Theory continued: Borek expected Morghur, Morghur favors Borek, Borek isn't chaos-aligned(he had the chance to prevent us from acting on Vlag, but he didn't, and was, in fact, happy about the result). Obvious conclusion, Morghur is aligned with Borek in some way apart from alignment to chaos. Less obvious conclusion: Morghur is aligned with Karag Dum because he was a dwarf. That is to say, the first incarnation of Morghur was born a dwarf, far longer ago than merely 300 years ago. And Dwarf souls that never have the rites to send them to the underearth are ejected from the aether, and reincarnated into new bodies to live another life, over and over again. Morghur was originally a secret shame of Karag Dum, his first incarnation was a dwarf that went into the chaos wastes and was changed into what he is now. Possibly someone who followed Grimnir, then had the shame of coming back alive/having his soul corrupted by chaos down to the core so as to cause disaster when reborn, possibly someone else important to Karag Dum's history, important enough to remember rather than burying or forgetting to dull the shame. They have formed a pact with Morghur to defend them and probably isolate them from everything outside, but it is still uncertain whether they've actually fallen into corruption, maybe chaos dwarves now, maybe not.
[x] THEORY: The crater and missing mountains are due to Morghur translocating or teleporting here. -more study is needed to be sure of how-.
[x] ACTION: Turn back
[x] ACTION: Politely ask Morghur to be granted entrance into Karak Dum.
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[x] [THEORY]: There are no dwarves to save. Either the "Cor-Dum" we saw is somehow fake, in which case the dwarves hold the place, and need no help holding it; Cor-Dum is real and allied somehow with the dwarves, in which case the dwarves are not worth our trouble as they have allied with chaos; or Cor-Dum is real and conquered Karag Dum, in which case there are no dwarves left to save.
[x] THEORY: Physical signs point to Morghur having been holding the area against nomad raiders for a very long time, and history implies that he's not been seen in the old world since approximately when Karag Dum would have come under attack during the Great War against Chaos. He's been here this whole time.
[x] THEORY: The crater and missing mountains are due to Morghur translocating or teleporting here. Physical signs point to Morghur having been holding the area against nomad raiders for a very long time, and history implies that he's not been seen in the old world since approximately when Karag Dum would have come under attack during the Great War against Chaos. He's been here this whole time. Magical signs and, less reliably, intuition about Borek, point to there being something uncorrupted in that mountain in the middle. Theory continued: Borek expected Morghur, Morghur favors Borek, Borek isn't chaos-aligned(he had the chance to prevent us from acting on Vlag, but he didn't, and was, in fact, happy about the result). Obvious conclusion, Morghur is aligned with Borek in some way apart from alignment to chaos. Less obvious conclusion: Morghur is aligned with Karag Dum because he was a dwarf. That is to say, the first incarnation of Morghur was born a dwarf, far longer ago than merely 300 years ago. And Dwarf souls that never have the rites to send them to the underearth are ejected from the aether, and reincarnated into new bodies to live another life, over and over again. Morghur was originally a secret shame of Karag Dum, his first incarnation was a dwarf that went into the chaos wastes and was changed into what he is now. Possibly someone who followed Grimnir, then had the shame of coming back alive/having his soul corrupted by chaos down to the core so as to cause disaster when reborn, possibly someone else important to Karag Dum's history, important enough to remember rather than burying or forgetting to dull the shame. They have formed a pact with Morghur to defend them and probably isolate them from everything outside, but it is still uncertain whether they've actually fallen into corruption, maybe chaos dwarves now, maybe not.
[x] THEORY: The crater and missing mountains are due to Morghur translocating or teleporting here. -more study is needed to be sure of how-.
[x] ACTION: Turn back
[x] ACTION: Politely ask Morghur to be granted entrance into Karak Dum.
- Location
- Brazil
How can we prove that one way or another?
Because this sure as shit looks like the real Morghur, summoning a magical murder forest full of beastmen and reality warping powers and all. And he got here somehow. And he is affectionate with Borek somehow.
And Borek knows enough that he sees this as a colossal shame, but knows it's not heresy as he still begs forgiveness from the Ancestor Gods.
The logical conclusion is that this isn't a trick or illusion. That Morghur, somehow, isn't a ranting madman.
The simplest explanation is that he spawned here and they kickflipped him to sanity before he lost his mind.
- Location
- Canada (eh)
Not really, we've seen him react non violently towards Borek and Mathilde has enough of a reputation to take the hit at this point.
- Location
- Oklahoma
Alright, so the affection thing- one explanation is Omegahugger's, but I think there's another one too.
Disclaimer: this relies on my somewhat limited knowledge of Warhammer.
So, as far as I'm aware, Beastmen are Dhar by way of Ghur, like Necromancy is Dhar by way of Shyish.
Morghur being the big daddy Beastman should be the Ghur-iest of them all- Ghur is even in his name!
However- Ghur is a wind of nature, but more specifically the wind of untamed nature. The wind of the wild. The wind of cooperative/friendly/tame nature is Ghyran.
I believe its been mentioned before in this thread that you won't find much of any Ghur around domesticated animals, though this is the closest I can find right now:
My theory is that the moment Morghur was bound, the moment he was tamed, he stopped being of Ghur and started being of Ghyran, hence acting in a manner that goes directly against his former nature.
Disclaimer: this relies on my somewhat limited knowledge of Warhammer.
So, as far as I'm aware, Beastmen are Dhar by way of Ghur, like Necromancy is Dhar by way of Shyish.
Morghur being the big daddy Beastman should be the Ghur-iest of them all- Ghur is even in his name!
However- Ghur is a wind of nature, but more specifically the wind of untamed nature. The wind of the wild. The wind of cooperative/friendly/tame nature is Ghyran.
I believe its been mentioned before in this thread that you won't find much of any Ghur around domesticated animals, though this is the closest I can find right now:
My theory is that the moment Morghur was bound, the moment he was tamed, he stopped being of Ghur and started being of Ghyran, hence acting in a manner that goes directly against his former nature.
- Pronouns
- Human/Form/Keyblade
[x] pikapika
It doesn't, actually. The real Morghur constantly changes his surroundings rather than just summon a forest and be done, and he makes reality in general more unstable and corrupted rather than less. He also is never affectionate with anyone or anything.
This is a Dwarf in a Fursuit with some very good illusions on top.
- Location
- Philippines
I wanted to avoid asking the Kurgans for more information, so they won't be too suspicious of Mathilde.
[X] Theory: Here are the clues
- Morghur is said to have been 'born' three hundred years ago, but there's stories of beings identical to him stretching back throughout recorded history.
- From your very limited knowledge, Morghur was last seen being pursued by High Elves in Bretonnia shortly before the Great War Against Chaos.
- From what the Yusak said, and what the banners you passed seem to attest, Kurgan tribes have been fighting or 'testing themselves against' Morghur for some time.
- Morghur did not attack Borek, instead greeting him with what to Dwarves is a very intimate gesture.
- Borek's reaction to Morghur did not seem surprised.
- The magic flowing to Karak Vlag was uncorrupted, which you're fairly sure would not have been the case if the Hold had been conquered by Beastmen.
- The landscape around Karag Dum has changed, including the disappearance of the smaller mountains around it, the growth of a forest around its base, and the appearance of a desert around the forest. It is also hotter here than anywhere else in the Steppes. Apart from the forests covering the lower parts of it, the exterior of Karag Dum appears unchanged.
- The forest is inhabited by Beastmen, who seem to be obeying Morghur.
- As far as Mathilde can tell, none of this is an illusion.
- There is less ambient Dhar here than other parts of the Chaos Wastes Mathilde has seen, though still more than outside of it.
Regarding Borek's interaction with Morghur, it was positive, and more importantly nonhostile, there even exist a form of intimacy affection, that Morghur, if he/she is the real beastmen would never do, The 'normal' Morghur is insane, and aggressive, can corrupt and mutate people in near proximity, yet Borek is unscathed and uncorrupted.
More importantly, Morghur did not attack us, which the 'normal' Morghur would actually attack us, then there is the fact that for a chaotic being the heart of the Karag and Morghur seem to have a lower Dhar radiation when I used my windsight, compared to the Dhar radiation of the chaos wasteland, You people saw the effects of chaos wasteland upon the land, dead vegetation, sickly wildlife, mutations. etc...
Borek didn't even seem surprise to see Morghur, plus the familiar interaction, Borek also left around the time period where sightings of Morghur was last seen being pursued by the high elves. Morghur has also been identified multiple times in history, perhaps he has siblings or whenever he dies, he can reincarnate or respawn. Regardless Borek seems familiar with Morghur and may have a deep bond with him/her.
However for a chaos wasteland, there seem to be a thriving forest and a desert, not exactly normal. Plus there is a distortion that surrounds Morghur that distorts reality or may even be countering the nature of the chaos wasteland itself, yet despite everything, Morghur does not seem to display any corrupting influence on Borek and the land.
This area has forest and a desert, and has a higher temperature compared to other parts of the chaos wasteland which again the area of Karag Dum is different compared to the wasteland.
Since it was the high elves that was involve with Morghur, plus the forest, it may be possible that the forest elves may be involve maybe, the high elves is involve in this scenario.
-[X] [Theory] All we know is that it is friendly and non chaotic. That is enough for now.
-theory: 1. Athel Lorien may be involved as that might explain the forest, and the forest does seem normal, plus Morghur is linked to them, and the high elves may also be involved since they were seen hunting Morghur. The elves do have something to gain by cooperating with the dwarves of Karag Dum, that I can't disclose since, its a guarded secret of the dwarves, Regardless, the dwarves gain survival, while the elves gain this secret resource.
• Cor-Dum vanished from the Old World shortly after the great Chaos incursion and hasn't been seen since. Moderate evidence that this is the "actual" Cor-Dum instead of a copy or facsimile.
• Cor-Dum would not hang out in this sort of region normally - his thing is elves, not dwarves, and fucking around for two hundred years without capturing a Waystone and corrupting it seems extremely off.
• The forest. It seems odd to me that a forest of this type would suddenly sprout around a mountain where it formerly wasn't, and I don't think that "Cor-Dum is hanging around" is a sufficient explanation, since said forest isn't unusually warped or twisted beyond the usual level.
While "the dwarves of Dum have captured and bound Cor-Dum" does seem fitting, it does not seem to be sufficient to explain everything we've seen here. And I strongly suspect Athel Loren is involved somehow.
• Athel Loren are the ancestral foes of Cor-Dum, and have spent centuries trying to put him down permanently.
• We know that prior to the great Chaos Incursion, the high elves were in hot pursuit of Cor-Dum across the old world - and that Finubar, who was in charge at the time, is far more open to cooperation with the dwarves than the usual.
I can imagine a sequence of events where Karag Dum agreed to help the wood and high elves seal away Cor-Dum, or something of the like, only to bust out their pet sealed evil in a can as their final contingency when it looked like all other options had failed.
The shame of Dum would thus be threefold - that they had worked with the elves to bind a respawning chaos puppet, that they hid this from the rest of the Karaz Ankor, and that they resorted to actively deploying their bound evil to keep themselves alive.
I suspect that the forest we're seeing was created through wood elf magic, either through direct cooperation with said wood elves or through the runemasters redirecting wood elf magic that had previously been used to seal Cor-Dum.
-theory: 2. Karag Dum is using a fake Morghur to make the real beastmen fight for them. Morghur is not acting his normal self, Borek is not mutating, and we have not seen any beastmen yet, only their shapes hiding in the shadows of the forest, but I suppose, that the beastmen may just be hiding. Yet Morghur is acting intimate, sane and nonhostile, even the beastmen showed restraint. Regardless its not normal behavior to be nonhostile.
-theory: 3. The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
-theory: 4. Omegahugger
-theory: 5. Gor Dum is either a mutated dwarf or controlled by a dwarf, look at how he reacted to Borek.
-theory: 6. Things are not what they appear as at the first look. Nothing Mathilde knows allows for what they are witnessing to be the reality.
-theory: 7. A pseudo-Herdstone - the dwarves managed to create or use their secret resoruces to reverse engineer it, which combined with Morghur, lets them control nomadic beastmen or even create their own beastmen from wildlife or livestock.
-theory: 8. the desert could demarcate the boundary where some serious energies are clashing. My guess is that Dum is enforcing a bubble of (relative) normality around itself, and as that bubble comes into contact with the forces of the Wastes which cause time dilation, you end up with a waxing and waning no man's land in which time may have been severely affected - resulting in extreme weathering, stones reduced to dust, corpses to dust, etc.
If the hold hasn't fallen, as the Chaos Wastes moved south and enveloped it, presumably they'd have access to more magic via the Waystone which would have allowed them to take on bigger and more radical projects, or perhaps to allow their runes to bear the extreme strain they're presumably under right now, because the available power levels increased in proportion with the load.
Could also be a strange effect of a mock-herdstone
-theory: 9. The Dwarfs have control over Cor-Dum and is likely being controlled by Karak Dum's King or Leader, They are doing this to protect the Waystone and keep the Karak Ankor safe, there is an ongoing siege to take control of the waystone with a nearby source providing power to the desert to weaken the defenders.
-theory: 10. Morghur has been bound to Karak Dum's waystone, which is acting as a psudo-herdstone. Morghur now sees dwarfs of Karak Dum as allies. This waystone manipulation may also be the cause of the weird geography. Based on Boreks last words, this was a longstanding contingency plan held by the dwarfs of Karak Dum. He is ashamed because it's a desecration of one of the greatest works of the Ancestor Gods.
-theory: 11. The Dwarves may be using beastmen either 'fake' or 'artificial' to give the impression of a conquered Karag, that way Chaos will more likely ignore them, plus Morghur is intimidating, which gives a measure of protection.
-[X] [Action] Expedition: Digs in; Mathilde: Investigates
- wait nearby and observe. It shouldn't be nearly as dangerous as it seems, and that allows us to gather additional clues.
- Gain more information. the wizards and rangers can help out, gather samples of the forest, fauna bones. Magical enviroment, desert and forest.
- bones: look for causes of death, evidence of mutation,
- plants and fauna, identify speciments, see if they are
linked to Athel Lorien,
- Investigate the desert, and look for the source.
- Have the wizards, find signs of chaos taints and Dhar in this enviroment, but be sure not to stray too far.
- Have the expedition fortify to play along with the kurgans' expectation of preparing for a fight.
- be sure for the rest of the expedition to set up a base somewhere a bit far in case a hasty retreat or even a emergency reinforcements.
- Get Asarnil to help you spot signs of elven activity, and even help you leverage the magical seed you got just in case, you need it to get the wood elves to parley.
- Get some wizards to help identify the nature of beastmen and compare it to Mathilde's observation of the supposed beastmen of Karag Dum.
[X] Theory: Here are the clues
- Morghur is said to have been 'born' three hundred years ago, but there's stories of beings identical to him stretching back throughout recorded history.
- From your very limited knowledge, Morghur was last seen being pursued by High Elves in Bretonnia shortly before the Great War Against Chaos.
- From what the Yusak said, and what the banners you passed seem to attest, Kurgan tribes have been fighting or 'testing themselves against' Morghur for some time.
- Morghur did not attack Borek, instead greeting him with what to Dwarves is a very intimate gesture.
- Borek's reaction to Morghur did not seem surprised.
- The magic flowing to Karak Vlag was uncorrupted, which you're fairly sure would not have been the case if the Hold had been conquered by Beastmen.
- The landscape around Karag Dum has changed, including the disappearance of the smaller mountains around it, the growth of a forest around its base, and the appearance of a desert around the forest. It is also hotter here than anywhere else in the Steppes. Apart from the forests covering the lower parts of it, the exterior of Karag Dum appears unchanged.
- The forest is inhabited by Beastmen, who seem to be obeying Morghur.
- As far as Mathilde can tell, none of this is an illusion.
- There is less ambient Dhar here than other parts of the Chaos Wastes Mathilde has seen, though still more than outside of it.
Regarding Borek's interaction with Morghur, it was positive, and more importantly nonhostile, there even exist a form of intimacy affection, that Morghur, if he/she is the real beastmen would never do, The 'normal' Morghur is insane, and aggressive, can corrupt and mutate people in near proximity, yet Borek is unscathed and uncorrupted.
More importantly, Morghur did not attack us, which the 'normal' Morghur would actually attack us, then there is the fact that for a chaotic being the heart of the Karag and Morghur seem to have a lower Dhar radiation when I used my windsight, compared to the Dhar radiation of the chaos wasteland, You people saw the effects of chaos wasteland upon the land, dead vegetation, sickly wildlife, mutations. etc...
Borek didn't even seem surprise to see Morghur, plus the familiar interaction, Borek also left around the time period where sightings of Morghur was last seen being pursued by the high elves. Morghur has also been identified multiple times in history, perhaps he has siblings or whenever he dies, he can reincarnate or respawn. Regardless Borek seems familiar with Morghur and may have a deep bond with him/her.
However for a chaos wasteland, there seem to be a thriving forest and a desert, not exactly normal. Plus there is a distortion that surrounds Morghur that distorts reality or may even be countering the nature of the chaos wasteland itself, yet despite everything, Morghur does not seem to display any corrupting influence on Borek and the land.
This area has forest and a desert, and has a higher temperature compared to other parts of the chaos wasteland which again the area of Karag Dum is different compared to the wasteland.
Since it was the high elves that was involve with Morghur, plus the forest, it may be possible that the forest elves may be involve maybe, the high elves is involve in this scenario.
-[X] [Theory] All we know is that it is friendly and non chaotic. That is enough for now.
-theory: 1. Athel Lorien may be involved as that might explain the forest, and the forest does seem normal, plus Morghur is linked to them, and the high elves may also be involved since they were seen hunting Morghur. The elves do have something to gain by cooperating with the dwarves of Karag Dum, that I can't disclose since, its a guarded secret of the dwarves, Regardless, the dwarves gain survival, while the elves gain this secret resource.
• Cor-Dum vanished from the Old World shortly after the great Chaos incursion and hasn't been seen since. Moderate evidence that this is the "actual" Cor-Dum instead of a copy or facsimile.
• Cor-Dum would not hang out in this sort of region normally - his thing is elves, not dwarves, and fucking around for two hundred years without capturing a Waystone and corrupting it seems extremely off.
• The forest. It seems odd to me that a forest of this type would suddenly sprout around a mountain where it formerly wasn't, and I don't think that "Cor-Dum is hanging around" is a sufficient explanation, since said forest isn't unusually warped or twisted beyond the usual level.
While "the dwarves of Dum have captured and bound Cor-Dum" does seem fitting, it does not seem to be sufficient to explain everything we've seen here. And I strongly suspect Athel Loren is involved somehow.
• Athel Loren are the ancestral foes of Cor-Dum, and have spent centuries trying to put him down permanently.
• We know that prior to the great Chaos Incursion, the high elves were in hot pursuit of Cor-Dum across the old world - and that Finubar, who was in charge at the time, is far more open to cooperation with the dwarves than the usual.
I can imagine a sequence of events where Karag Dum agreed to help the wood and high elves seal away Cor-Dum, or something of the like, only to bust out their pet sealed evil in a can as their final contingency when it looked like all other options had failed.
The shame of Dum would thus be threefold - that they had worked with the elves to bind a respawning chaos puppet, that they hid this from the rest of the Karaz Ankor, and that they resorted to actively deploying their bound evil to keep themselves alive.
I suspect that the forest we're seeing was created through wood elf magic, either through direct cooperation with said wood elves or through the runemasters redirecting wood elf magic that had previously been used to seal Cor-Dum.
-theory: 2. Karag Dum is using a fake Morghur to make the real beastmen fight for them. Morghur is not acting his normal self, Borek is not mutating, and we have not seen any beastmen yet, only their shapes hiding in the shadows of the forest, but I suppose, that the beastmen may just be hiding. Yet Morghur is acting intimate, sane and nonhostile, even the beastmen showed restraint. Regardless its not normal behavior to be nonhostile.
-theory: 3. The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
-theory: 4. Omegahugger
-theory: 5. Gor Dum is either a mutated dwarf or controlled by a dwarf, look at how he reacted to Borek.
-theory: 6. Things are not what they appear as at the first look. Nothing Mathilde knows allows for what they are witnessing to be the reality.
-theory: 7. A pseudo-Herdstone - the dwarves managed to create or use their secret resoruces to reverse engineer it, which combined with Morghur, lets them control nomadic beastmen or even create their own beastmen from wildlife or livestock.
-theory: 8. the desert could demarcate the boundary where some serious energies are clashing. My guess is that Dum is enforcing a bubble of (relative) normality around itself, and as that bubble comes into contact with the forces of the Wastes which cause time dilation, you end up with a waxing and waning no man's land in which time may have been severely affected - resulting in extreme weathering, stones reduced to dust, corpses to dust, etc.
If the hold hasn't fallen, as the Chaos Wastes moved south and enveloped it, presumably they'd have access to more magic via the Waystone which would have allowed them to take on bigger and more radical projects, or perhaps to allow their runes to bear the extreme strain they're presumably under right now, because the available power levels increased in proportion with the load.
Could also be a strange effect of a mock-herdstone
-theory: 9. The Dwarfs have control over Cor-Dum and is likely being controlled by Karak Dum's King or Leader, They are doing this to protect the Waystone and keep the Karak Ankor safe, there is an ongoing siege to take control of the waystone with a nearby source providing power to the desert to weaken the defenders.
-theory: 10. Morghur has been bound to Karak Dum's waystone, which is acting as a psudo-herdstone. Morghur now sees dwarfs of Karak Dum as allies. This waystone manipulation may also be the cause of the weird geography. Based on Boreks last words, this was a longstanding contingency plan held by the dwarfs of Karak Dum. He is ashamed because it's a desecration of one of the greatest works of the Ancestor Gods.
-theory: 11. The Dwarves may be using beastmen either 'fake' or 'artificial' to give the impression of a conquered Karag, that way Chaos will more likely ignore them, plus Morghur is intimidating, which gives a measure of protection.
-[X] [Action] Expedition: Digs in; Mathilde: Investigates
- wait nearby and observe. It shouldn't be nearly as dangerous as it seems, and that allows us to gather additional clues.
- Gain more information. the wizards and rangers can help out, gather samples of the forest, fauna bones. Magical enviroment, desert and forest.
- bones: look for causes of death, evidence of mutation,
- plants and fauna, identify speciments, see if they are
linked to Athel Lorien,
- Investigate the desert, and look for the source.
- Have the wizards, find signs of chaos taints and Dhar in this enviroment, but be sure not to stray too far.
- Have the expedition fortify to play along with the kurgans' expectation of preparing for a fight.
- be sure for the rest of the expedition to set up a base somewhere a bit far in case a hasty retreat or even a emergency reinforcements.
- Get Asarnil to help you spot signs of elven activity, and even help you leverage the magical seed you got just in case, you need it to get the wood elves to parley.
- Get some wizards to help identify the nature of beastmen and compare it to Mathilde's observation of the supposed beastmen of Karag Dum.
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There just isn't evidence for this that I know of. Just because an entity is empowered by Chaos doesn't mean that the Chaos Gods can withdraw that power art will. Chaos is not synonymous with a CHaos God, or even the Big Four Chaos Gods working in general.
Mathilde's power comes from Chaos, she's a mutant. That doesn't mean they can just nope her magic away.
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- Location
- Brazil
The real clues here lie with the guy who knows the answer. Borek.
He knew. He fucking knew.
If this were but a trick, Borek wouldn't go as he did. An entire Hold using deception and making a chaos-looking puppet and elaborate illusions is highly unorthodox, probably shameful, but isn't "Ancestors forgive us, tell the world we tried".
No, we need to play the player here. Borek, from beginning to end, is a clue. The untainted flow of magic, another clue. The passiveness of one of the craziest and yet most powerful beastmen in the world, another clue.
I was on the enslavement collar wagon until the gentle caress part. That's no batshit crazy respawning beastmen. The simple fact there isn't a horde of beastmen charging the wagons is answer enough to that.
@edit: What he knew is that is had already happened or that it was a possibility. Either way, his actions and behavior do not match with this being sleigh of hand on the part of KD.
He knew. He fucking knew.
If this were but a trick, Borek wouldn't go as he did. An entire Hold using deception and making a chaos-looking puppet and elaborate illusions is highly unorthodox, probably shameful, but isn't "Ancestors forgive us, tell the world we tried".
No, we need to play the player here. Borek, from beginning to end, is a clue. The untainted flow of magic, another clue. The passiveness of one of the craziest and yet most powerful beastmen in the world, another clue.
I was on the enslavement collar wagon until the gentle caress part. That's no batshit crazy respawning beastmen. The simple fact there isn't a horde of beastmen charging the wagons is answer enough to that.
@edit: What he knew is that is had already happened or that it was a possibility. Either way, his actions and behavior do not match with this being sleigh of hand on the part of KD.
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That's because that is no beastman at all. It's a disguise.
This comparison is wrong though, being a Mage and being a Chaos Champion are two different things. Next you'll say Teclis is powered by Chaos.
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Or, you know, some dwarves are born mutated but they're killed at birth which is a shamefull secret of the whole race. And part of the reason the demographics aren't doing well, Boney have said dwarves keep to themselves the reasons of their demographic decline, perhaps their culture remembers the time before beastmen and it's just another reason to depress.
- Location
- Brazil
Then why did Borek just went off like someone dead inside and ask us to tell the world they tried, and ask forgiveness for his people from his gods?
Those are not the worlds of a person part of a mere trick.
He knew is was a possibility, but that possibility hadn't been implemented when he left. That's also very important.
I would say the chances of this being Morghur are about zero, and the loops being jumped and the excuses being made and cute little stories being crafted to allow this to be real are kind of impressive in the scope of how far people would go for "my first impression has got be right"
- Location
- Czech Republic
If it was disquise wouldt Borek just say: Oh dont worry this is just illusion, come on in.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Hmm.
We know that Dwarven runes are able to literally burn away Dhar - it's what our belt does.
Perhaps that's what caused this desert to exist? Credit to @The Phoenixian for the theory.
We know that Dwarven runes are able to literally burn away Dhar - it's what our belt does.
Perhaps that's what caused this desert to exist? Credit to @The Phoenixian for the theory.
If I have to warn you again to cut this out, it will be in the form of a threadban.
- Location
- Europe
Master Rune of Kingship - Gotrek Starbreaker was the first great Dwarf Lord to have his crown adorned with this rune. Such a crown is a priceless artefact and the loss of one is dearly mourned as it absorbs the wisdom of its former master and passes this on to the next crown bearer.
The master rune of Kingship already does most of what you need, twist it a bit to pass on mental stability or Dwarven stubborness and values and your well on your way.
Alric is this same principle, but even more esoteric and bullshit. Even if we assume that chaos twisted his intended rune instead of it just being his own madness, the rune still exists and functions regardless. That is part of the nature of dwarven rune craft.
Imparting serious mental effects is within the scope of high level rune craft.
Morghur is replaceable, just about anyone is replaceable to chaos. Even Everchosen don't get the kind of support you think Morghur has. Chaos doesn't put it's full weight behind anything for long, it's antithetical to its nature.
- Location
- Brazil
Yes. Regardless, he had to have known it was Morghur.
He had to have know it was something you just can't take back. Not something that would simply get them badmouthed as they already were, but something that would have them declared heretics and all but excommunicated.
There's little reason for that if it's a runic mecha and illusions.
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- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
Many dwarves look down on their rangers for going around being stealthy and stuff.
Actively pretending to be agents of Chaos? Yeah, I can see why he'd expect that to be an outright no-go.
Not true, the chaos dwarves bind the demons of the four and don't worship them. I am not sure hashut isn't just an evil God instead of a part of the chaos pantheon.
So it's certainly possible to bind chaos demon without falling to chaos.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Okay I don't know what I've ever done to annoy you but that's absolutely not true. I didn't recall those prior events because those don't seem like the same phenomena, it sounds sorta opposite to that. You also liked the post telling me to fuck my self so frankly i'm going to just disengage here because I don't trust myself to respond with a level head anymore.