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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Sinsystems said:
I think the biggest problem with that is the fact that while the Fire can be chalked up to an accident, it will inevitably make the Goblins take a closer look at the storehouse and if they discover the sabotage they will know that whatever happened wasn't an accident.
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Having thought about it, maybe, but...unless we do the fire first, then the sabotage, we SHOULD ideally be getting out before they can begin searching for us in earnest. Worst case scenario, they're goblins and if we take the update as fact only around a score are even sober, and we have Terror and are close to sources of darkness with torches and the fire we can use for Burning Shadows.
 
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Say random idea for a spell we could invent that I think would fall under the Fog of War trait, although @BoneyM would have to confirm that, is one based around the concept of Face Blindness. Basically the spell when cast on someone makes them temporarily unable to recognize other people, so for instance if we hit a random guard with it he'd be unable to tell if the person standing in front of him is another guard, the elector count or a his own brother.

Now I don't have to tell you how useful such a spell would be, especially in a battlefield scenario and especially if we can do it on a mass scale with a Battle Mage spell. Just imagine a horde of Storm Vermin suddenly unable to tell each other from the enemy and the chaos that could cause in a battle.
 
Sinsystems said:
Say random idea for a spell we could invent that I think would fall under the Fog of War trait, although @BoneyM would have to confirm that, is one based around the concept of Face Blindness. Basically the spell when cast on someone makes them temporarily unable to recognize other people, so for instance if we hit a random guard with it he'd be unable to tell if the person standing in front of him is another guard, the elector count or a his own brother.

Now I don't have to tell you how useful such a spell would be, especially in a battlefield scenario and especially if we can do it on a mass scale with a Battle Mage spell. Just imagine a horde of Storm Vermin suddenly unable to tell each other from the enemy and the chaos that could cause in a battle.
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Wouldn't work I think, Skaven identify each other by smell.

This is actually part of why when they rout they rout really bad, because they release a kind of musk when their mind collapses from fear that warns the others to also be terrified, and it snowballs hard.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Why not Subtle Sabotage + Fire?

I thought that was a fairly obvious play? To the point Boney used it as an example of combining the actions.

The fire might not damage the wings too badly, or might be put out too quickly, or they might have more in stock. Or they might just lob improvised munitions, such as stones or incendiaries.

The leader is fairly inconsequential if we destroy the catapults.

[X] Sabotage the doom diver catapults in in such a way that they will fail when fired and set fire to the wings.
[X] Advance deeper into Karag Lhune.
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I don't it's strictly better to combine the sabotage options.

First of all it's suspicious. If a bunch of flammable material near a fire suddenly starts burning (especially after an avalanche) that's likely to be an accident. If all the catapults are sabotaged as well then it's suspicious.

Second it takes time, not a huge amount of time but time is time and we're in the wrong place to scout enemy forces.
 
Even the most confused skaven would be able to reach the conclusion 'this unknown rat-shaped person is probably my ally and this unknown not-rat-shaped person is probably my enemy'. Being completely unable to tell one species from another is more the territory of Bewilder and Universal Confusion. It'd be possible to develop Battle Magic level spells to make the enemy fight each other but they'd require an element of illusion as well, and would be rather difficult.
 
Alectai said:
Wouldn't work I think, Skaven identify each other by smell.

This is actually part of why when they rout they rout really bad, because they release a kind of musk when their mind collapses from fear that warns the others to also be terrified, and it snowballs hard.
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I wonder if you could develop a mist spell that mimics perfume or musks to replicate the Skaven terror pheromone. Perfumes are often aerosols after all.
 
Sinsystems said:
Say random idea for a spell we could invent that I think would fall under the Fog of War trait, although @BoneyM would have to confirm that, is one based around the concept of Face Blindness. Basically the spell when cast on someone makes them temporarily unable to recognize other people, so for instance if we hit a random guard with it he'd be unable to tell if the person standing in front of him is another guard, the elector count or a his own brother.

Now I don't have to tell you how useful such a spell would be, especially in a battlefield scenario and especially if we can do it on a mass scale with a Battle Mage spell. Just imagine a horde of Storm Vermin suddenly unable to tell each other from the enemy and the chaos that could cause in a battle.
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Universal confusion already achieves something like that - it is AOE Bewilder, while Bewilder states that "A target at short range will have their mind clouded and will act unpredictably. "

Realms of Sorcery (which is the source of most of the spells in quest) states that Bewildered target will do one of the following each round with equal chance:
1) Be restricted to half action (instead of full or 2 half), otherwise act normally
2) Run in random direction
3) Attack nearest target
4) Do nothing
5) Curl into a ball and sob (do nothing and be helpless).
 
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NavySeel said:
Just something I was wondering, while we were back in Stirland did we find out who replaced Anton and Wilhelmina on the council?
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She filled the spymaster position immediately with a Witch Hunter she travelled with, but what little you heard suggests she was either still searching for or investigating candidates for diplomat and chancellor when you left, or she hadn't prioritized filling those positions.
 
You know, the more I think about it the more I think we're putting too much emphasis on utter quiet. Even if more beyond the very SMALL number of sober goblins come up, we have ways of escaping in the chaos and the shadows.

How about this?

[] Use sounds to lure the few sober goblins back onto or near the gyrocopter pad, then attack the drunken ones from the rear, driving them up and off the mountain, afterwards you can effectively sabotage the actual artillery pieces.

This might not be the most viable if we were all alone in this expedition, but we have an army coming up behind us that will be getting most of the attention.

Another option is to deal with the actually threatening ones further away from the drunken masses where they won't be panicked.

[] Lure the sober ones up away from the drunken masses bit by bit into traps in which you take them apart with Burning Shadows and your own close combat abilities, after which you can destroy the artillery without interruption.

Goblins are weak and have quite low Ld, so I believe we can handle them, especially with the element of surprise. Keep in mind, even with a small landslide, a screaming watchgoblin, and a score of growling, yapping armed goblins running outside, the drunks didn't react.
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
You know, the more I think about it the more I think we're putting too much emphasis on utter quiet. Even if more beyond the very SMALL number of sober goblins come up, we have ways of escaping in the chaos and the shadows.

How about this?
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We want to scout deeper in the fortress afterwards, big chaotic melee with the goblins may alert greenskins farther from the entrance.
 
Horium said:
In order to change the now utterly boring subject of Liber Mortis, what is everyone's thoughts on possible knock on effects of reclaiming Karak Eight Peaks?

One curious thing that comes to mind is that Belegar is at spiritual crossroads. He is wavering between the Old Ways (conservative older Holds' way of things) and the New Ways (technology advancement, etc).

It would be very interesting to see what effects on the rest of the Karaz Ankor would have an accomplished dwarf king (if reclamation is successful), from a prestigous line and a legendary kingdom, who would have firm belief in the New Ways, because they helped him win back his homeland.

Not to mention, the consequences of large mortal armies being a big help.
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Another interesting thing is that K8P will also have a halfling colony, which will probably lead to increased self-sufficiency, and probably more trade, as well. Especially if they work to keep trade and relations going with the Moot.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
You know, the more I think about it the more I think we're putting too much emphasis on utter quiet. Even if more beyond the very SMALL number of sober goblins come up, we have ways of escaping in the chaos and the shadows.

How about this?

[] Use sounds to lure the few sober goblins back onto or near the gyrocopter pad, then attack the drunken ones from the rear, driving them up and off the mountain, afterwards you can effectively sabotage the actual artillery pieces.

This might not be the most viable if we were all alone in this expedition, but we have an army coming up behind us that will be getting most of the attention.

Another option is to deal with the actually threatening ones further away from the drunken masses where they won't be panicked.

[] Lure the sober ones up away from the drunken masses bit by bit into traps in which you take them apart with Burning Shadows and your own close combat abilities, after which you can destroy the artillery without interruption.

Goblins are weak and have quite low Ld, so I believe we can handle them, especially with the element of surprise. Keep in mind, even with a small landslide, a screaming watchgoblin, and a score of growling, yapping armed goblins running outside, the drunks didn't react.
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The point of the subtle(er) options is to sabotage their throwers whilst still allowing us to infiltrate further without the alarm being raised. Landslides are things that happen on mountains, and a small party was sent to figure out what is going on.

Even if these options somehow succeeded without alerting all the goblins in the courtyard (unlikley, goblins can be cowards who will scream loudly as they flee or are murdered by acid) someone from the courtyard will come up eventually and find the mound of corpses and raise the alarm further into the mountain, making further scout work much more difficult.
 
[X] Cut the ropes on the doom diver catapults, it's quiet if not subtle. Then try and kill the leader surreptitously. Hopefully they'll only realise he's dead once they find the sabotage adding to the confusion when the attack comes.
[X] Sabotage the doom diver catapults in in such a way that they will fail when fired and set fire to the wings.
[X] Blatantly destroy the doom diver catapults, cutting ropes, smashing cranks and setting fires.

[X] Advance deeper into Karag Lhune.

I think the most important thing we can do here is sabotage their artillery. Even if we get rid of the guided munitions they can still fire unguided missiles if they have their catapults. As such I'm prioritizing getting rid of their artillery over everything, even better scouting.

The army will be going through very soon so this is our best chance to gain an advantage.
 
Retaking Karak eight peaks could have a massive impact on the dwarfs especially if it gets more thinking about trying to reclaim lost holds or even start new ones.
It could also help improve relations with humans too, since half the force is made of them, it might also lead to a more stable borderlands if the roads up to the Empire become more important for trade.

There are also the halflings settling there which would probably help the hold a decent amount.
 
Akasha said:
The whole world is not against us. People are not sending spies to us all the time. The people around us are not reading our minds. Thieves don't steal random enchanted iron boxes, because they steal valuable things that are easy to conceal and transport, not heavy, conspicuous magical iron boxes they know nothing about and can't even open, and which might explode at any moment for all they know. In fact, thieves don't try to break into the rooms of Magisters at all, especially if those mages are infamous for being terrifying spymasters, and even more so to steal random metal boxes. People who might wish us harm are not omniscient. If we keep quiet, and don't tell anyone that we've read it, they won't know that we've read it. It's as simple as that.
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Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell. While you are not wrong in all of that, you aren't right either. This is Warhammer, there are powers beyond our ken at work at all times. Please do remember that one chaos god is known in particular for its powers of future sight, and that another possesses and can grant its followers the ability to know someones darkest secrets. The Liber Mortis is a big enough deal that either of these dark forces could get involved, if they so cared and they wanted it for their own nasty plots.
 
Chronic said:
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell. While you are not wrong in all of that, you aren't right either. This is Warhammer, there are powers beyond our ken at work at all times. Please do remember that one chaos god is known in particular for its powers of future sight, and that another possesses and can grant its followers the ability to know someones darkest secrets. The Liber Mortis is a big enough deal that either of these dark forces could get involved, if they so cared and they wanted it for their own nasty plots.
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"Literal god can fuck us over" is very weak argument for (or against) any course of action since, well, whatever we do literal god can fuck us over.
 
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