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Mountains are not enemies.


So the thread says.

I am still low-key annoyed that we chose not to destroy the very mountain that Castle Drakenhof once stood upon. Blasted mountain deserves it after the crimes against Abelhumanity it has been an accessory to...

Well, there is a Grudge aimed at a mountain itself from a Goblin Shaman who blew himself up causing a cave-in and the deaths of many Dwarfs from that. The Grudge in question is to mined and hollowed out the mountain out till there nothing left.
 
Do we have any idea of what the second phase of Operation Impetuous Retaking is going to look like? Broad brush, we start off doing-

Phase 1
-Head off solo to do our 'classified Wizard Lord shit' and clog the Waystone, to not to give away explosive Dawi secrets.
-Hopefully Vlag comes back into reality- if not, pretend cutting the Warp back door off was the plan all along(?), probably promising to come back later with more experts.
-If/when Vlag comes back, maybe(!) we make it back in time for the fight to start, but either way hope we beat the Slanneshi forces and Daemon Prince/Sorcerer inside without devastating the Expedition forces.

Now you have a returned hold that's been in the Warp for centuries, hopefully low on chaotic defenders, probably still full of hazards- that worst case could perhaps still return to the Warp if the ritual is 'static' and gets powered up again via Waystone unclogging.

Phase 2?
So then, we've got some follow-up objectives, and expect a time limit of perhaps a month (per Boney, IIRC) before we've got to consider unclogging the Waystone before it's corrupted for good.
In that time, we'd be aiming to, what-
-Scout for remaining defences, traps, memetic hazards etc (probably personally at first?)
-Scout for survivors. Assess any for sanity/corruption/etc? Evacuate, perhaps.
-Figure out what will happen to Vlag if/when we unclog the Waystone. Can we be sure it won't pop back into the Warp?

I'd definitely prefer not to leave the Waystone clogged past the point of Warpstone formation and exploding it. The timescale may (just) allow us to continue on to Dum after dealing with the Slanneshi Daemons, see what's up there- but 1. then we'd probably have to head back to our clogged Waystone across the Wastes solo and 2. we're letting the Expedition go on without us? Or are people anticipating abandoning the returned Vlag 'for now'?

What post-return-of-Vlag objectives and options are we likely to be choosing between? The second phase I speculate about above seems to me like we could need to spend weeks here.
 
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Well yes, but at that point you're not giving them Mathilde's knowledge about Dwarf waystones, you're telling lies that are going to either spiral or unravel quickly at the inevitable follow-up question of 'wait, our Karaks are fueling Elven magics? why hasn't something been done to stop this?'.
The fact that the karaks are waystones has probably come up one of the previous times an imperial wizard has come to the defence of a Karak, or simply passed through one while adventuring, the High King probably has a method to prevent the kings of the karaks from destroying them, while still maintaining relative secrecy.

And there are a number of skeleton keys to this whole problem.

1) leave what the karak waystones are ultimately feeding into vague and say you're under the impression their preservation is the result of some deal during the golden age that the High king sees either profit or honor in still upholding. Besides, it's not like dwarves went for destroying waystones at any point anyway, they're aware of the explanation that they're needed to prevent Daemonic incursions.

2) beg guild secrets(we're a lord wizard now, we can declare that things we've discovered should remain guild secrets right?) And ask for oaths not to pass this stuff on, then just tell them everything we know. It's not like any of these people are the king of a Karak, so if they don't spread it there's no chance of civil war.

3) beg vague secrets regarding the magical nature of dwarven Karaks that should remain obscure for an undefined good reason and just say that magical signs point towards there likely being survivors in Dum.
 
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-If/when Vlag comes back, maybe(!) we make it back in time for the fight to start, but either way hope we beat the Slanneshi forces and Daemon Prince/Sorcerer inside without devastating the Expedition forces
I believe the idea for this was to pretty much bunker up for a few days until all the chaos forces daemons have dissipated naturally, then head in and take care of any cultists.
 
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I believe the idea for this was to pretty much bunker up for a few days until all the chaos forces have dissipated naturally, then head in and take care of any cultists.
Why would they just hang around waiting for their forces to 'die' and dissipate? I don't think that's likely at all.
Either way, though, if we're victorious, we still progress to Phase 2. What then?
 
also, because I'm bad people and enjoy stressing people out.

Expedition Casualty list by part five (KIA, MIA, AWOL, CM, Other)

5? Winter Wolfs (Other: delivering messages)

395 Souls left on the march.
Err. I believe the headcount is, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong:

150 Rangers
50 Engineers
50 Slayers
---
13 Wizards
1 Ice Witch
---
1 Dragonlord (real dragon included!)
100 Knights of Taal's Fury
100 Winter Wolves

Which adds up to less than 500.

So where'd the other sixty go? :o
 
Why would they just hang around waiting for their forces to 'die' and dissipate? I don't think that's likely at all.
Either way, though, if we're victorious, we still progress to Phase 2. What then?
Which is why we'd want to bunker up. It's not even certain they'll have the wherewithal to track us down to the next waystone.
 
Also, its weird to think, but this would be the first time Mathy, at least in story, has faced Chaos.

Skaven, as a technicality are chaos. but they aren't proccing temptation rolls or fucking with Mathy's head. (Stone is////)
I mean, Qrech was on our first list of romance options, there was clearly some temptation.
 
Which is why we'd want to bunker up. It's not even certain they'll have the wherewithal to track us down to the next waystone.
Ah, we're clearly making a different assumption.
I'm assuming the Expediton is going to try to hold the line at the gates of Vlag. Are you assuming we just leave it behind, for the Daemonic forces to do whatever desperate things they want in the days before they go unstable?
Even if we bunker up 'elsewhere', they could probably find the Expedition, if not Mathilde.
 
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The fact that the karaks are waystones has probably come up one of the previous times an imperial wizard has come to the defence of a Karak, or simply passed through one while adventuring,

Mathilde lived in a fully reclaimed and waystone-activated K8P for some time before elves told her that it was a Waystone. Panoramia didn't notice either, and she was the "waystone expert".

Apparently it's way less obvious than you are thinking it is.
 
Ah, we're clearly making a different assumption.
I'm assuming the Expediton is going to try to hold the line at the gates of Vlag. Are you assuming we just leave it behind, for the Daemonic forces to do whatever desperate things they want in the days before they go unstable?
Ah, yes. I was thinking that once they're on a timeline they are pretty much forced to come to us if they want to do some form of damage to us. Of course, now when you say it, there's the possibility that they'll wreck the rests of Vlag manually since they can't have it.
 
Do we have any idea of what the second phase of Operation Impetuous Retaking is going to look like? Broad brush, we start off doing-

Phase 1
-Head off solo to do our 'classified Wizard Lord shit' and clog the Waystone, to not to give away explosive Dawi secrets.
-Hopefully Vlag comes back into reality- if not, pretend cutting the Warp back door off was the plan all along(?), probably promising to come back later with more experts.
-If/when Vlag comes back, maybe(!) we make it back in time for the fight to start, but either way hope we beat the Slanneshi forces and Daemon Prince/Sorcerer inside without devastating the Expedition forces.

Now you have a returned hold that's been in the Warp for centuries, hopefully low on chaotic defenders, probably still full of hazards- that worst case could perhaps still return to the Warp if the ritual is 'static' and gets powered up again via Waystone unclogging.

Phase 2?
So then, we've got some follow-up objectives, and expect a time limit of perhaps a month (per Boney, IIRC) before we've got to consider unclogging the Waystone before it's corrupted for good.
In that time, we'd be aiming to, what-
-Scout for remaining defences, traps, memetic hazards etc (probably personally at first?)
-Scout for survivors. Assess any for sanity/corruption/etc? Evacuate, perhaps.
-Figure out what will happen to Vlag if/when we unclog the Waystone. Can we be sure it won't pop back into the Warp?

I'd definitely prefer not to leave the Waystone clogged past the point of Warpstone formation and exploding it. The timescale may (just) allow us to continue on to Dum after dealing with the Slanneshi Daemons, see what's up there- but 1. then we'd probably have to head back to our clogged Waystone across the Wastes solo and 2. we're letting the Expedition go on without us? Or are people anticipating abandoning the returned Vlag 'for now'?

What post-return-of-Vlag objectives and options are we likely to be choosing between? The second phase I speculate about above sound to me like we could need to spend weeks here.


With respect I'd do it this way.

Phase 1
- Take entire group towards nearest waystone, create defensive positions using fast built trenching and the land ships to make a killing field.
- Clog the waystone
- Reassess situation, does the Karak pop back into existence if yes prepare for the fight of your life as the daemonic and chaos forces sally out to deal with the blocked waystone as their highest priority. If the Karak doesn't come back then we have a choice to make. Do we leave the waystone blocked and strand the karak in the warp permanently to secure our advance to Dum and ensure that a potent chaos backdoor is permanently gone or do we try and pull the Karak back another way and then clog the waystone.

Phase 2 (if Karak renters real space)
- With the Daemonic and chaos sally dealt with we'll have to scout out Karak Vlag and look for survivors, initial scouting foray into the Karak by Mathilde to assess situation, shallow scouting then return to expedition with new information and reassess.
- if chaos activity is low to nothing in Karak after scouting we come back in greater force and go deeper and continue looking for more information.

- Find the Karak Waystone and disrupt the spell that siphons energy to pull it into the warp. <--- this is the ultimate end goal of phase 2 if possible.

Ah, yes. I was thinking that once they're on a timeline they are pretty much forced to come to us if they want to do some form of damage to us. Of course, now when you say it, there's the possibility that they'll wreck the rests of Vlag manually since they can't have it.

This makes the assumption that they actually can wreck the rest of Vlag, something was holding the chaos forces back it stands to reason there is still active defence or some other force getting in their way.
 
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Mathilde lived in a fully reclaimed and waystone-activated K8P for some time before elves told her that it was a Waystone. Panoramia didn't notice either, and she was the "waystone expert".

Apparently it's way less obvious than you are thinking it is.
What? No, Panoramia noticed, she was drawing from them to help her agricultural work the whole time. She just didn't mention it to anyone who spread the info.
 
Mathilde lived in a fully reclaimed and waystone-activated K8P for some time before elves told her that it was a Waystone. Panoramia didn't notice either, and she was the "waystone expert".

Apparently it's way less obvious than you are thinking it is.
Yeah, and our crew had probably exceeded the entire Imperial Wizard-Hours spent in Dwarven Karaks by all previous College wizards in history combined by that point. I don't think it's obvious at all.
Edit: though, hmm, yes, Panoramia may have noticed earlier, on reflection.
Ah, yes. I was thinking that once they're on a timeline they are pretty much forced to come to us if they want to do some form of damage to us. Of course, now when you say it, there's the possibility that they'll wreck the rests of Vlag manually since they can't have it.
Or wreck Kislev?
 
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they certainly didn't expect our dragon backup.
Nobody expect some nosey human gray wizard got a dragon for a backup.

Especially in a Karak overlook by fckn Teclis.
The paper we can (and will) wrote that we manage to detect something he overlook will trigger a flurry of accademic thesis and anti thesis paper that might trigger a second or third expedition on that place.
 
Mathilde lived in a fully reclaimed and waystone-activated K8P for some time before elves told her that it was a Waystone. Panoramia didn't notice either, and she was the "waystone expert".

Apparently it's way less obvious than you are thinking it is.

If I fail, it's because of me. Not because some broken Waystone farted on the far side of the horizon. Oh! And speaking of, that's another thing to take on once I'm done with the soil. Never even heard of a circular Waystone cluster anything like this big before, there's a paper or two in that."

You are a Wizard of the Grey Order, and Wizards of the Grey Order don't spit their drinks across the table. You finish your draw on the beer calmly and place the mug carefully back down. "You know much about Waystones?"

She looks at you oddly. "Jade Order, remember? I've been pulling Ghyran out of them ever since they woke up last year."

She noticed when they woke up, probably thinking everybody else did too.
 
With respect I'd do it this way.

Phase 1
- Take entire group towards nearest waystone, create defensive positions using fast built trenching and the land ships to make a killing field.
- Clog the waystone
Well, it's emerging there are clearly several different conceptions of that we're dubbing Phase 1 here could look like. My reservations about that plan are about drawing the attention of the whole Expediton to the Waystone network and it's feeding into the Karaks, which seems to inevitably lead to awkward, and potentially explosive, questions.

Still, however it plays out, we're left with an unstable and temporary situation between Vlag and the clogged Waystone.
 
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Well, it's emerging there are clearly several different conceptions of that we're dubbing Phase 1 here could look like. My reservations about that plan are about drawing the attention of the whole Expediton to the Waystone network and it's feeding into the Karaks, which seems to inevitably lead to awkward, and potentially explosive, questions.

Doesn't really matter, we can simply say the karak waystone is supposed to just be another routing node and the chaos forces are diverting the energy or say guild secret and then have no concern at all.
 
Well, it's emerging there are clearly several different conceptions of that we're dubbing Phase 1 here could look like. My reservations about that plan are about drawing the attention of the whole Expediton to the Waystone network and it's feeding into the Karaks, which seems to inevitably lead to awkward, and potentially explosive, questions.

For all the expedition knows the spell is simply anchored to the world at that location (and possibly others), and the details are wizardly secrets. They won't know it's a Waystone.
 
Also while I'm at it, I had some lingering questions, clarifications from anyone that remembers is appreciated:
1. Did the rule of Dieter IV end with his execution or did he manage to flee after getting deposed?
2. Can we recycle/reuse the Helldrake scales currently attached to Mathilde's robes if we decide to make a better version?
3. How easily available would it be to purchase Helldrake scales, if we need to find more? IIRC there was a roll for loot in Barak Varr when we first bought the scales, so that implies it's uncommon and relies on luck?
4. Did Kasmir return to take up his position as Stirland's Religious advisor again, I can't remember?
5. Was getting a Nagarythian diplomat stationed as Ulthuan's ambassador decided with a dice roll, when we gave them the captured Dark Elf working with Moulder? Was quite lucky, but not sure if it was from author fiat.
6. Are K8P and KaK the only Dwarfholds to maintain a standing airforce with which to project force independently, as opposed to Barak Varr's Gyrocopters which serve as extensions of their Navy and are attached to other units?
7. Who was the 4th God that Mathilde perceived when firing the Eye of Gazul? The first 3 seems to be fairly obvious as Ranald, Grombrindal, Mork/Gork, but I'm not sure if it was confirmed the last was Horned Rat?
8. Dwarven Slayers by definition seek their deaths in enemy territory where chances are they won't be able to receive a proper burial rite. Does the Slayer ritual performed beforehand allow their souls to return to the Underearth?

1. No, he and his dynasty moved to Talabheim.
2. You can try to retrieve them intact from the enchantment, but it's not guaranteed.
3. For Mathilde's purposes, they can be considered unique. Old World ships that have encounters with Helldrakes aren't usually in a position to be selling parts of them after, they're usually pulling or working alongside Naggarothi vessels.
4. Yes. Last Mathilde heard, he was back in Sylvania and corresponding with Roswita remotely, which fits with Roswita's focus.
5. Yes, a d10 for the ten kingdoms.
6. Yes. All Dwarfholds split their military into two groups, K8P and KaK use army and air force as the two divisions.
Barak Varr: Army and Navy
Karak Hirn: Conventional and Rangers
Karak Izor: Conventional and allied holds
Zhufbar: Conventional and Ironbreakers & Artillery
Karak Kadrin: Conventional and Slayer
Karak Norn: Athel Loren-related and Other
Karak Azul: Offence and Defence
7. That's what's speculated, but it hasn't been confirmed.
8. No. Some Slayers consider this appropriate, as they do not feel they have earned entry to the Underearth. Others are careful to only fight where there are friendly forces that can perform the proper rites.

@BoneyM, what's Carcasonne been doing regarding their attempts to get closer to dwarven interests?

Getting the spotlight stolen, mostly. They've had chances to get involved a number of times so far but it hasn't panned out yet.

Doesn't that fall under the same category as mining picks then? Not something to arm people with but definitely something to have on you and stick into your enemy if an axe or hammer is for some reason not in reach.
I think I'm just trying to model the Rangers and asking if something like a multi-purpose military knife similar to what modern RL militaries use is a thing that they have as standard equipment.

They're seen as only tools. If they want something that can double as a weapon, they bring a hand-axe of some sort. If they have a knife, it's for work too fiddly to be done with a small axe, so they tend to be small. There'd be exceptions, Karak Norn Rangers probably have machete-equivalents as well as their utility axes.

What's the institutional "common" knowledge Dwarves have on Waystones? Like on the non-restricted level of well connected politicians, Thanes, high level advisors and Loremasters with interest in magic stuff?

A thing they did during the Golden Age before the treachery of Elgi and the Time of Woes ended that capability.

Huh? Does that mean that the Waystones in between don't drain magic out of the environment or that the environmental magic in question for some reason bypasses the Karaks and continues on its merry way towards Ulthuan?

Yes, the only magic in the Karaz Ankor network was absorbed at a Karak. The Waystones in between are just to route energy. This makes them much harder to find unless you know where to look.

Do we know anything about Dwarven personal courtship/wedding gifts between couples that aren't majorly important to clan politics?

Usually things they made themselves. Masterpieces during courtship to prove their skill, more personally meaningful ones for the marriage.
 
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