Asheram
Not quite altogether
- Location
- Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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Hard to say. The Karaz Ankor network has a lot more magic flowing through it than the ones the Colleges usually deal with. Mathilde'd start to worry at anything upwards of a month.
Mathilde theorizes that disrupting the spell or the flow of magic will return the Karak to reality. This would mean it doesn't need to be baited.
All the magic is coming from one direction, so blocking the next Waystone upstream would cut it off.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Where? We aren't planning on cutting it off from Dum.
There's no reason that daemons would hide Karak Vlag in the shadow realm when they could hide it in the actual Warp instead.
Don't have spells or ability.
Honestly our best safe bet would be to just walk away from the portal and send messages to everyone else about what we just discovered.
It not ideal, but it the cards the deck dealt to us. Clogging or doing anything to the Waystone would be ill-advised even with our knowledge in the subject.
Till we reach Karak Dum and see what is what, the best thing is just to focus on that and getting the word out.
It not ideal, but it the cards the deck dealt to us. Clogging or doing anything to the Waystone would be ill-advised even with our knowledge in the subject.
Till we reach Karak Dum and see what is what, the best thing is just to focus on that and getting the word out.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
This is a classic siege situation. They've effectively used magic to circumvallate and countervallate Karak Vlag so they can invest it.
The classic solutions to a siege are:
I'm certainly leaning toward disrupting the flow of magic, which will conveniently do all of these at once. The attackers in Karak Vlag are dependent on the magic to survive and have only a few days of "supply". Furthermore, the attackers are heavily dependent on their "fortifications" to keep the dwarves of Karak Vlag under control: I strongly suspect that Karak Vlag's defenders are substantially stronger than its attackers, militarily speaking, and the demons are just there to keep them from getting out to the boundary where they can work on dismissing the effect. I suspect that disrupting the ritual will therefore allow Karak Vlag's defenders to sally - or outright evacuate the Karak with all their stuff - and potentially even smash the demons on their own.
Either way, I'm leaning toward clogging the next waystone upstream. That'll take the initiative and force the Chaos forces inside Vlag to respond. Once we know how they've responded - likely by sallying to assault the Waystone - we can fight them. If we're really ballsy we could leave Asarnil and Deathfang outside to keep them from unclogging the Waystone while we assault the investing forces.
The clog may not be safe to leave in place for, like, months, but we don't need it to last that long. At worst, we might be able to get Cyrston (or even reinforcements from the Colleges!) up to set up a big ritual to "use up" the flow so Karak Vlag's flow doesn't resume while we unclog, clean, and re-clog it.
The classic solutions to a siege are:
- Reduce or assault the countervallations to destroy the attackers in battle
- Reduce or assault the countervallations to distract the attackers where the defenders can sally and break the circumvallation
- Lay siege to the attackers, who as a maneuver force will have almost necessarily been less-well-prepared for a siege than the defenders.
I'm certainly leaning toward disrupting the flow of magic, which will conveniently do all of these at once. The attackers in Karak Vlag are dependent on the magic to survive and have only a few days of "supply". Furthermore, the attackers are heavily dependent on their "fortifications" to keep the dwarves of Karak Vlag under control: I strongly suspect that Karak Vlag's defenders are substantially stronger than its attackers, militarily speaking, and the demons are just there to keep them from getting out to the boundary where they can work on dismissing the effect. I suspect that disrupting the ritual will therefore allow Karak Vlag's defenders to sally - or outright evacuate the Karak with all their stuff - and potentially even smash the demons on their own.
Either way, I'm leaning toward clogging the next waystone upstream. That'll take the initiative and force the Chaos forces inside Vlag to respond. Once we know how they've responded - likely by sallying to assault the Waystone - we can fight them. If we're really ballsy we could leave Asarnil and Deathfang outside to keep them from unclogging the Waystone while we assault the investing forces.
The clog may not be safe to leave in place for, like, months, but we don't need it to last that long. At worst, we might be able to get Cyrston (or even reinforcements from the Colleges!) up to set up a big ritual to "use up" the flow so Karak Vlag's flow doesn't resume while we unclog, clean, and re-clog it.
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Yes. Mathilde thought it in the update.
.... wait?
we can hop into the shadow realm? at will?
I thought that was a grey collage only thing?
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
- Location
- Belgium
- Pronouns
- He
Let's hope no Greater Demon comes out of the mountain, or we will have a bit of problem...
Whatever it does, that mountain stayed like this for 200 years, so it looks quite stable and not likely to suddenly turn into a massive warp rift.
The amount of magic used there is massive, and it means 2 things:
-first, if we make only one error (and suite possible, even with several other Magisters), it will explode in our face and kill us (and probably a lot of the expedition too)
-secondly, it's someone high up in Slaanesh's court that's creating the effect, and is probably monitoring it. Meddling with it risks to attract it's active attention.
[No]
- Location
- Somewhere in the area
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
I worry that even if the demons dissolve due to being outside the aether, the ritual keeping Vlag outside of reality won't.
I'm not too familiar with ritual magic, especially massive chaos ritual magic, but isn't possible for them to be somewhat automated? Especially if this one has been going for 200 years. I can't imagine any demon willing to just sit there channeling the magic while the others get to have fun tormenting dwarfs. Couldn't they bind a demon or some poor soul to act as the "channeler" for the ritual? Like how the Chaos Dwarfs bind demons to create Hellcannons? And speaking of non-demons, are we sure that the only forces of Chaos in Vlag are demons? If Vlag dissapeared during the Great War Against Chaos, and is potentially separated from time, couldn't it be possible that some of Asavar Kul's old forces are in Vlag too?
I'm not too familiar with ritual magic, especially massive chaos ritual magic, but isn't possible for them to be somewhat automated? Especially if this one has been going for 200 years. I can't imagine any demon willing to just sit there channeling the magic while the others get to have fun tormenting dwarfs. Couldn't they bind a demon or some poor soul to act as the "channeler" for the ritual? Like how the Chaos Dwarfs bind demons to create Hellcannons? And speaking of non-demons, are we sure that the only forces of Chaos in Vlag are demons? If Vlag dissapeared during the Great War Against Chaos, and is potentially separated from time, couldn't it be possible that some of Asavar Kul's old forces are in Vlag too?
That's a big part of why there's no reason for the daemons to use it. Unless artificially changed, the shadow realm has a thickness of absolute zero. The spell to transport things there, Pit of Shades, is a weapon because it obliterates everything that enters.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
My bad. Myself and @Jyn Ryvia have got mixed up. Clogging is reversable. Boney said that *blocking * it was irreverseable.
- Location
- Brazil
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I haven't caught up yet, but if we're really worried about reprisal and the timeline, we could clog multiple Waystones. Clog one, keep the expedition moving upwards, clog the next one we find. (Obviously we'd limit it to, like, three max or something.) It'd make a heck of a mess that'd need to be cleaned up sooner rather than later, but that's far easier than assaulting a literal Hellmouth or holding out against a desperate chaos army.
- Location
- Greece
That could be an aftereffect, even if the magical effect that mind whammied you dissapeared, you do not automatically stop thinking of something you got primed into thinking several times (proof: this thread wasnt even mind whammied, and yet it made it a catchphrase). Heck, since it was the persistence of that phrase that gave the game away, it could even be used sarcastically/ as a victory cry.
I was already against not investigating, but now that we know it would likely be next year at best before a response could be mustered I'm even more sure we should do something here.
As for which probe to try...
It would be nice to have an immediate response by way of channeling, but I'm skeptical enough could be pulled to give us good data one way or another. It's not like we know how much margin the effect has to potentially keep operating on, and expecting Cyrston to pull more than a modest fraction seems pretty overoptimistic. So I still think the clog is better, slightly longer leadup but a much greater certainty about what (If anything) the results of stopping the flow of magic actually accomplishes. I'm not at all confident about the disruption effort by the light wizards. Too much stacked against them in my mind.
As for which probe to try...
It would be nice to have an immediate response by way of channeling, but I'm skeptical enough could be pulled to give us good data one way or another. It's not like we know how much margin the effect has to potentially keep operating on, and expecting Cyrston to pull more than a modest fraction seems pretty overoptimistic. So I still think the clog is better, slightly longer leadup but a much greater certainty about what (If anything) the results of stopping the flow of magic actually accomplishes. I'm not at all confident about the disruption effort by the light wizards. Too much stacked against them in my mind.
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
No we have to beat someone in a children's card game first.
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- Location
- Brazil
Ok, that's good. It means the expedition's clock hasn't really started yet, so we should be able to afford a few days to poke at this thing.
Clogging the next one upstream sounds good. We have half a dozen castles of steel armed with dozens of cannon, a bunch of battle spells in our magic roster and Deathfang. We should be able to protect the next Waystone for a few days.
Of course, my worry is that cutting it off might cut off whatever remaining runes are there, but this isn't a situation we can let stand. I doubt they are getting anything from the usual stream as it's tapped to keep them away regardless, so hope their batteries will have that last final trickle of power?
Clogging the next one upstream sounds good. We have half a dozen castles of steel armed with dozens of cannon, a bunch of battle spells in our magic roster and Deathfang. We should be able to protect the next Waystone for a few days.
Of course, my worry is that cutting it off might cut off whatever remaining runes are there, but this isn't a situation we can let stand. I doubt they are getting anything from the usual stream as it's tapped to keep them away regardless, so hope their batteries will have that last final trickle of power?
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'd rather not have someone who doesn't have a link to a god as a maybe fallback, a level 9 wizard level, and a belt of anti-Dhar try and channel that much energy. Not unless they were a fellow Lord/Lady Magister at least.
[X] Waystone Clog
[X] Waystone Clog
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Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
I was going to vote [ ] No when the the vote opens in 130 seconds, but then I remembered that we are overworked and suffer a -10 to everything next turn.
Which means that, no, going out and solving this issue immediately after returning probably isn't a good idea. Some sort delaying tactic is needed.
Which means that, no, going out and solving this issue immediately after returning probably isn't a good idea. Some sort delaying tactic is needed.