Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
It does however mean that we are the biggest key to power.
[X] Lead the Wizards, Knightly Orders, and Asarnil
I hope it never comes down to having command of all empire forces. But if it does, I want to have them.
I hope it never comes down to having command of all empire forces. But if it does, I want to have them.
- Location
- Finland
The key to power theory only works when you need the keys, this is not the case.
They were going to go without us anyway, they are not going to turn around if we say so just because we have a bigger stick to swing.
Only way we can make the expedition to turn back is convince Gotrek and Snorri, and, again, having ahiny cavalry is not going to help there, if anything, i think it would make it less likely to succeed if we try to use military strength, only leading to infighting at worst case scenario, and at best making everyone dig in on their positions.
Also by killing Borek dead and blaming the enemy, that too would not require lealing the knights. that said I can see edge cases where leading them would be advantageous so
[X] Lead the Wizards, Knightly Orders, and Asarnil
- Location
- Finland
Sure, and there are edge cases where not leading them would be equally advantageous.
People should vote for what they want, but lot of the arguments for why people should vote for one or the other get bit spurious.
If someone wants to lead everything we can, sure, vote for it, but i'm just noting that it ain't going to make us turn the expedition around if we suddenly feel like getting away, and it definitely is not going to make Borek, or Gotrek or Snorri impressed enough to turn the expedition around for us.
I seriously doubt that anything short of devastating losses (of people or equipment) is going to make the dwarven portions of the expedition move anywhere except towards Karak Dum until we have actually gotten to Karak Dum.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Also our local Radical Engineer set us up with some
- Location
- Aotearoa
I think that it might also/as much be a proposition that "you've got something to live for- a Clan, a job, respect, and a new home- if you do choose to turn back."
Give them an alternative if the choices seem a bleak death or failure (by Boreks standards) and ignominious retreat.
[X] Lead the Wizards, Knightly Orders, and Asarnil
Give them an alternative if the choices seem a bleak death or failure (by Boreks standards) and ignominious retreat.
[X] Lead the Wizards, Knightly Orders, and Asarnil
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- Location
- Australia
@BoneyM, 2e says that if you're a wizard you can become a casting priest but you lose your wizard powers. Is that possible in Divided Loyalties? If so, what actually happens with the wizard losing their powers? Do they become incapable of casting or do they simply not use it or what? And if they become incapable, do they discard their powers somehow or does the god take them away?
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
[X] Lead the Wizards, Knightly Orders, and Asarnil
@Absoloot Your comment is the one that pushed me over the line. Taking on more Imperial responsibilities somewhere in the future is something that I am interested in.
That said, I don't think this option will win. So I guess it's good that I like the other one too.
@Absoloot Your comment is the one that pushed me over the line. Taking on more Imperial responsibilities somewhere in the future is something that I am interested in.
That said, I don't think this option will win. So I guess it's good that I like the other one too.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
[X] Lead only the Wizards
Anyway, put me also in the 'Hubert is awesome as he is' camp.
The assertion that his approach to magic in a way that suits him is self-indulgent or selfish and childish does a major disservice to his character in the same vein of people saying that Mathilde was obligated to do all the good things she did. It also does a disservice to the story to cut down the diversity of Azyr Wizards to remove the idea that they can also be warriors without being 'irresponsible'.
It also has uncomfortable and frankly disturbing implications in real life. Just for an example, would you assert that every student which foregoes the study of medicine in favor of whatever they prefer to be selfish and self-indulgent?
Anyway, put me also in the 'Hubert is awesome as he is' camp.
The assertion that his approach to magic in a way that suits him is self-indulgent or selfish and childish does a major disservice to his character in the same vein of people saying that Mathilde was obligated to do all the good things she did. It also does a disservice to the story to cut down the diversity of Azyr Wizards to remove the idea that they can also be warriors without being 'irresponsible'.
It also has uncomfortable and frankly disturbing implications in real life. Just for an example, would you assert that every student which foregoes the study of medicine in favor of whatever they prefer to be selfish and self-indulgent?
- Location
- Red Blood on Golden Shield
[X] Lead only the Wizards
Sovereign Hunt
A Concentric Circle
- Location
- Bereft of Name
[X] Lead the Wizards and Asarnil
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Woah. Borek would shit on his debts for this? Or worse, demand that his ally do so for his benefit?
Actually, what's more surprising is not that there is a Dwarf that thinks like this. Dwarves are people too, just as varied as any other members of the same civilization. It's that Mathilde knows up front that he's that type of Dwarf without having asked him.
What made her think that he's this Elgi-like?
Or am I misunderstanding something fundamental when it comes to allies accruing debts you don't know about for your benefit in Karaz Ankor culture?
To be a hundred percent fair, this isn't Borek's state of mind. It's a state of mind that, given Mathilde's read of him, is likely enough to rather not risk telling him about this if she wants to be sure that she'll be able to go on the errand on the way there. This read is based on the one hand on her long experience being around Dwarves and her more general talents, but might on the other hand be influenced on the fact that she's never interrogated one and has interrogated plenty of Humans and Skaven.
That said, even if her read is right, we could still leak it on purpose and thus either try and convince Borek and thus do it more safely with his support, or have him be the guy to veto it and settle for doing it on the way back.
But that would be foolhardy behavior that would still be considered honorable and pro-social. This thing now is the stuff that others would start grumbling about how he would make a fine Slayer.
They're not stereotypes, but they do have an average type of behavior that differs from that of humans. And what's being described here is definitely possible behavior for a Dwarf, but it isn't expected behavior for a Dwarf.
Our rep is the kind of rep foreigners get among Dwarfdom, not internal Dawi-to-Dawi rep.
Granted, it is high enough to upgrade us from a honorable Human (Zhufokri) to our own "Mathilde" category, but I think Karak Eight Peaks is the only place where a Dwarf that never met us might still trust us more than a fellow Dwarf noble in good standing.
On the third hand, I don't know how much Borek is in good standing. And not a single Dwarf other than him on this expedition is actually from Karak Dum. I don't know what types of oaths, if any, bind all the other Dawi to this expedition, but given that most of them are Rangers and Engineers, I don't expect them to be majority suicidal ones.
I feel this way so often. Pretty much any time this thread gets truly heated over things that aren't about the direction this quest takes for the foreseeable future as a game. BoneyM is a good QM and usually gives us choices he considers all valid. Any argument how one choice is clearly increasing the likelihood of dooming us while another will almost definitely lead to rainbows and sunshine is probably an overblown argument.
Mechanically speaking we are choosing to take on more action sinks and military responsibilities in exchange for personal sway during the expedition, a chance to lead cavalry attacks, and an improved resume if this expedition doesn't end in failure.
Anyone who doesn't have a strong opinion on the above dichotomy still has plenty of varied narrative reasons to consider when making their choice, but those reasons are never reasons that are clearly right or wrong.
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- Location
- Finland
Borek is somewhat, obsessed, understandably so, about his one goal.
While he might not like doing so, Borek ignoring any debts and/or obligations, especially ones he did not personally sign up for, is a possibility.
He'd probably feel bad about it, afterwards, but for now, getting back to Karak Dum is his sole focus.
Mathilde does not know if Borek would act like that, but a change is there, and there is a reason why Mathilde is coming with bribes in case she needs to convince the other two dwarven leaders to, i won't say turn on, but disagree with, Borek on what the proper course is.
- Location
- Greece
Tbh , if we are considering Borek to be the kind of guy that doesn't consider the honour of those that came to help him... I'd rather hold more authority. Changing my vote.
[X] Lead the Wizards, Knightly Orders, and Asarnil
No, but they may reconsider on matters tactical if we have the biggest key.
[X] Lead the Wizards, Knightly Orders, and Asarnil
No, but they may reconsider on matters tactical if we have the biggest key.
- Location
- Finland
Or they might feel insulted that we tried to use access to military force as a bargaining chip.
I'm not opposed to leading the knights, i merely have zero interest in it, but the arguments here are not very good.
Please tell me why it is interesting, instead of how it is tactically necessary.
- Pronouns
- He/His/etc
When we learned assassination, was that only shanking people or did it also cover other methods / discrete accidents?
- Location
- Greece
You assume we'll be overbearing about it, rather than subtle.
And strategising, planning and being on top of future events is fun aka interesting for some, some people do find optimization/playing a smart planner kind of character interesting, even if/when it doesn't always lead to the most interesting choices storywise.
- Location
- Earth
I think Mathilde's mostly shanking people.
We didn't take the course on poisons yet.