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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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BoneyM said:
The Winter Wolves act in concert with the Ulricans for basic hammer-and-anvil tactics. The demigryph knights are more independent, charging at vulnerabilities when the opportunity arises and counter-charging enemy monsters for glory.
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Hmm, seems the Winter Wolves make slightly better use of Seija while the murderchickens uses Esbern better, but neither being particularly advantaged.
Ashmaker said:
Bullshit.

I started reading this quest late and that vote was over before I got here, but Mathilde going full anti-Sigmar is definitively not the route I would have supported. It might make sense on an emotional gut level, but the fact that she has been part of a literal battlefield Miracle of Sigmar always made the whole thing seem like a petulant "Well, what have you done for me lately?"
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Dude, we were picking types of horrible trauma to get. She's not supposed to be rational about it and we're not supposed to enjoy it.

From Mathilde's PoV, the Church of Sigmar has been nothing but an impediment, despite the best efforts of its adherents.
 
Ashmaker said:
Bullshit.

I started reading this quest late and that vote was over before I got here, but Mathilde going full anti-Sigmar is definitively not the route I would have supported. It might make sense on an emotional gut level, but the fact that she has been part of a literal battlefield Miracle of Sigmar always made the whole thing seem like a petulant "Well, what have you done for me lately?"
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Our issues are with the Church more than the god.
Those have been very obstructive.
 
veekie said:
Dude, we were picking types of horrible trauma to get. She's not supposed to be rational about it and we're not supposed to enjoy it.

From Mathilde's PoV, the Church of Sigmar has been nothing but an impediment, despite the best efforts of its adherents.
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Just speaking my mind. Personally, I always felt that Abelhelm was failed much worse by men than he was by Sigmar.
Artemis1992 said:
Our issues are with the Church more than the god.
Those have been very obstructive.
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I wouldn't mind that, but, the trait doesn't really read like that to me.
BoneyM said:
Disdain for Sigmar: Abelhelm Van Hal died abandoned by Sigmar. You intend to return the favour. +1 Piety due to renewed faith in other gods, will not let Sigmarism flourish in institutions she controls - penalty to institutional actions unless worship of another god is instituted.
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It reads like it's personal spite against Sigmar himself for not saving Abelhelm.
 
[X] Plan Highly Visible Ninja Wizard
-[X][Mathilde] Striking at enemy lines wherever they seem most vulnerable
-[X][Esbern & Seija] With the Demigryph Knights
-[X][Panoramia] With Titus' skirmishers
-[X][Maximilian] With Codrin's archers
-[X][Johann] With the Siege Engine crews
 
Panoramia:
[ ] With Codrin's archers
Bit tempted to slot her with the archers here. Her area of effect denial would be good for halting cavalry and shock troops.
 
I'm seeing a disturbing amount of overconfidence and arrogance about soloing armies because we have the seed of life.

Just remember everyone
"Remind yourself overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer."

People purposing to run into the middle of hordes of orcs need to remember this quest is played with dice, dice that can fail horrendously for us and work fantasticly for our enemies.
 
Ashmaker said:
I started reading this quest late and that vote was over before I got here, but Mathilde going full anti-Sigmar is definitively not the route I would have supported. It might make sense on an emotional gut level, but the fact that she has been part of a literal battlefield Miracle of Sigmar always made the whole thing seem like a petulant "Well, what have you done for me lately?"
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I dunno, that implies that default stance of Sigmar is to watch his followers suffer: every bit of help is to be appreciated while every fail to help is to be expected. That makes him a less than stellar god in the setting where gods are active actors. If some help to his followers is expected (which I think is the case in Warhammer) then Sigmar did fail Abelhelm and it's not petulant to resent Sigmar for it.

For example, compare that situation to a teacher who helps a child with homework one day and the next day silently watches them being bullied in class: would you call their resentment petulant?
 
You know, Belegar is being very trusting of us. Not only has he never given us any orders but he doesn't even require us to tell him what we intend to be doing. While we were marching that made sense, little of interest was going on. However now that we are going into battle I was expecting a bit more in the way of coordination.
 
Angelform said:
You know, Belegar is being very trusting of us. Not only has he never given us any orders but he doesn't even require us to tell him what we intend to be doing. While we were marching that made sense, little of interest was going on. However now that we are going into battle I was expecting a bit more in the way of coordination.
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Well we did pull a veritable miracle by riding to all the Dwarf holds early on and netting him a good chunk of his forces.
 
We also basically handed him Und-Uzgar. Belegar-Quest is probably thinking that Mathilde is best managed hands-off, so she has room to work miracles.
 
Angelform said:
You know, Belegar is being very trusting of us. Not only has he never given us any orders but he doesn't even require us to tell him what we intend to be doing. While we were marching that made sense, little of interest was going on. However now that we are going into battle I was expecting a bit more in the way of coordination.
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Trust, yes, but also ignorance. If you were a runepriest things would be different, but he hasn't the slightest clue how best to command manling wizards. Does he treat you like a particularly volatile siege weapon? Like a one-manling Ranger squad? Like a runic banner? Luckily he doesn't have to make that decision, because between your previous good deeds and your contributions to the campaign he's got no problem with allowing you to manage yourself and the journeymanlings.
 
@BoneyM What about the commanders that we have the option of attaching Max and Panoramia to? Have they said what they'd be mostly doing and where?
Also, Ulrican Hammer-and-Anvil tactics sound like something that works best if you look at them as an isolated force or army in their own right. Is it expected by Belegar that each commander takes his people and does his own thing within the theater of war as opposed to fully mixed force engagements during every major battle?
 
Rafin said:
@BoneyM What about the commanders that we have the option of attaching Max and Panoramia to? Have they said what they'd be mostly doing and where?
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They're all archery units, their roles in the coming battle will be mostly identical for each. It's largely a matter of who you feel they'd work best with - dwarves, humans or halflings.

Rafin said:
Also, Ulrican Hammer-and-Anvil tactics sound like something that works best if you look at them as an isolated force or army in their own right. Is it expected by Belegar that each commander takes his people and does his own thing within the theater of war as opposed to fully mixed force engagements during every major battle?
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Largely, yes. It's a staggeringly enormous force for the era, drawing from three different species. Belegar is trusting each of the leaders to make decisions themselves rather than trying to implement some sort of top-down grand strategy. The general order of battle is that Belegar and Skaroki's forces are the core, Ulthar and the halflings on one flank, Codrin and Wulfhart on the other, artillery and Kragg in the rear. You and the demigryph knights have no set place, having the mobility to make yourself useful however and wherever you best see fit.
 
BoneyM said:
They're all archery units, their roles in the coming battle will be mostly identical for each. It's largely a matter of who you feel they'd work best with - dwarves, humans or halflings.



Largely, yes. It's a staggeringly enormous force for the era, drawing from three different species. Belegar is trusting each of the leaders to make decisions themselves rather than trying to implement some sort of top-down grand strategy. The general order of battle is that Belegar and Skaroki's forces are the core, Ulthar and the halflings on one flank, Codrin and Wulfhart on the other, artillery and Kragg in the rear. You and the demigryph knights have no set place, having the mobility to make yourself useful however and wherever you best see fit.
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Can we summon a dozen of shadow horses for couriers to improve battle communication? That sounds like it could improve command and control big time.
 
That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Thanks. Now I can vote in good conscience.

[X]Plan Leeroy

Mostly I want Max with the Dwarves for a chance to prove himself and gather some Dwarf rep, and neither ranged caster with the superstitious humans, at least not in the first serious battle. And since the Demigryph knights are doing pretty much the same as we are planning to do in the top bunch of votes I don't see why we can't be hitting weak points as a unit just as well. I'm okay with the currently winning vote as well but my preference is keeping at least Panoramia away from Cordrin's forces.

Also, plans "Austria" and "Rout the Enemy" seem to be identical. Keep that in mind when tallying. But also that @Lupercal voted for both, so don't double-check him.

Edit for Approvals:
[X] Plan Wizard Hunter
-[X] Trying to flank the enemy to strike at spellcasters and siege weapons
-[X] [Esbern & Seija] With the Demigryph Knights
-[X] [Panoramia] With Titus' skirmishers
-[X] [Maximilian] With Titus' skirmishers
-[X] [Johann] With the Siege Engine crews
 
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Artemis1992 said:
She'll do the heaviest, most obvious casting of all Wizards, I don't want to put her with the suspicious peasants who might prefer to stab her back over letting her work her magic.
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That's a shockingly good reason to not have a wizard anywhere near Codrin's forces. In light of this new insight I'm swapping the wizards away from being anywhere near them in a chaotic battle where we can't look out for them, especially since they lack healing spells.

[X] Plan Wizard Hunter
-[X] Trying to flank the enemy to strike at spellcasters and siege weapons
-[X] [Esbern & Seija] With the Demigryph Knights
-[X] [Panoramia] With Titus' skirmishers
-[X] [Maximilian] With Titus' skirmishers
-[X] [Johann] With the Siege Engine crews

Same reasoning as before.

I'd rather have Mathilde be inserted earlier into the battle and ready to cause chaos in the enemy lines especially since we know the demigryphs are already going to be working to hit vulnerabilities in the lines. This way Mathilde can cause terror in the back and the demigryphs can cause fear in the front.

Also if Mathilde is going in earlier it's possible we might get some good assassination and sabotage action going on even before the battle commences.

Esbern and Seija with the demigryphs since as our most potent force giving them magic is a good idea, also they've worked together a lot and breaking that up seems like a bad boss idea.

Panoramia and Max go to Titus's skirmishers since dwarfs already have magic resistance and Codrin's forces are untrustworthy. Also this way our newbie Max can work with a senior journeyman who's been in battle before.

Johann goes to the artillery.
 
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