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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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BoneyM said:
Option 3 is Barak Varr's reinforcements arrive several hours from now and they perform a more mundane rescue.
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But that was not one of the options?

If you want to include it you basically have this:

1) Wait for Barak Varr.
2) Attempt magic rescue.
-2a) Enter room with stick first to minimize risk.
-2b) Enter room with body first to maximize risk.

After Mathilde had already decided to try entering the room, there was no downside to 2a), at least none I can see.
 
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Novel rescue idea: we get some wooden sticks with flat plates on their ends, we write the khazalid words 'turn out the light so I don't die when I come through -vouched for by metalsmith guildsmaster/important person X' on the flat plate, then we make sure to stick it through into the top or any compartment before we try to go through.

If that Idea wouldn't get the plat far enough through for someone to read it, at least a casting of substance of shadow on either a normal stick or a signalling stick might be to tell us when we're risking going through into a lit compartment when the stick gets stuck in the wall.
 
tapkomet said:
This Dwarf survival engagement reminds me of a story someone told me wherein playing Only War (a TRPG set in Warhammer 40k, for those unaware), the player group ended up in charge of the (survivors) of their Guard regiment (because all the higher-ups died), and had to command a difficult operation. As the one telling the story explained, "we spent hours drawing up a good battleplan, because our imaginary troops deserve to come back".

That said, so far it seems like we probably can't give the remaining survivors much better odds of survival compared to Barak Varr's rescue, and risk dying/miscasting ourselves, so we'll just have to take what we have, much as it's unfortunate that we'll no doubt be leaving several Dwarfs to die whom we could have otherwise saved.
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Well its entirely possible that a miscast kills everyone still on board too.

BoneyM said:
To onlookers, the Dwarves would only become visible as SoS was popped by moonlight. It would look like turning the chain somehow caused Dwarves to teleport onto land, one at a time.
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Schrodinger's Dwarf?
torac said:
2) Attempt magic rescue.
-2a) Enter room with stick first to minimize risk.
-2b) Enter room with body first to maximize risk.
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Stick is not safer. Splinching is entirely unpredictable and some of the consequences includes "wall explodes violently"
 
Prevent further loss of life, get answers, get vengeance...

[X] Scout for any approaching greenskin forces

I think we can do more for the first one -- preventing further loss of life -- still. The wreck will still be there in an hour and we can still investigate it. The goblins though, if they show up, we do not have a lot of people available to fight or scout. We have a few gyrocopters, but... I'd want Mathilde on overwatch here, too. Mathilde can help make a difference in catching sight of the goblins if they come; her magesight could make a difference.

And if they never come, well, we can still investigate the river banks afterwards.
 
torac said:
But that was not one of the options?

If you want to include it you basically have this:

1) Wait for Barak Varr.
2) Attempt magic rescue.
-2a) Enter room with stick first to minimize risk.
-2b) Enter room with body first to maximize risk.

After Mathilde had already decided to try entering the room, there was no downside to 2a), at least none I can see.
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2a isn't riskless. Quest canon is that SoS failure results in the warp doing something horrible to you because the real world doesn't have any response to it.
 
veekie said:
Well its entirely possible that a miscast kills everyone still on board too.
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Yeah, but we could save those Dwarfs if we don't miscast, or explode from a light source. That's what I'm referring to. We could, but we're not going to try because it's too risky both to us and possibly them.
 
BoneyM said:
That could breach the compartment. Something materializing inside something else is often as bad for the something else as it is for the something.
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So it would have been too much of a risk for the big compartment, but even if things go bad and we breach the compartment I think we might be able to rescue faster than a smaller one-person compartment can fill, especially if the testing stick is lower down.
 
New rescue idea: what if mathilde gets a lot of sticks

no, even more than that

keep going

yes, that many sticks

and then she just wedges them under the ship, and the dwarfs lever the whole thing out of the water

in fact, let's just leave Mathilde out of it and let the dwarfs handle it themselves

yes, perfect
 
guyfromtheplace1 said:
So it would have been too much of a risk for the big compartment, but even if things go bad and we breach the compartment I think we might be able to rescue faster than a smaller one-person compartment can fill, especially if the testing stick is lower down.
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Assuming that the stick and wall exploding doesn't fuck up the Dwarf.

It's interesting that people seem to have tried "poke a stick through it" like, 6 independent times.
 
veekie said:
Stick is not safer. Splinching is entirely unpredictable and some of the consequences includes "wall explodes violently"
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chocolote12 said:
2a isn't riskless. Quest canon is that SoS failure results in the warp doing something horrible to you because the real world doesn't have any response to it.
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Wasn't it a random event? I was under the assumption that there could be a wide range of results which may include: materials fusing together; inserted item violently materialising in a burst/explosion; nuclear reaction; one or more of the involved substances being banished into the warp; inserted material slowly materialising slowly bursting the surrounding material apart, etc etc.

The range of survivable consequences is much much larger if you personally are not the item which slowly becomes material. A lot of stuff can still kill you from standing/floating beside the incident, but many things wouldn't.
 
Ericwinter said:
So, uh, @BoneyM , a couple questions just out of curiosity. We saved two thirds of the Okral group that was mostly made out of metalworkers... do we know how much that is in comparison to the entire KaK metalworkers guild? I can't really remember if Thorgrim sent everybody, everybody he could get away with, or just a small amount, but it sounds like we saved a majority of what I imagine to be one of the most important guilds for the biggest Karak? Am I getting that right?
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Karaz-a-Karak would have retained enough to stay self-sufficient, but this would still be a significant portion of the KaK Metalsmiths Guild.

Ericwinter said:
Also, uh, just how ridiculous is something like chain-casting SoS three hundred plus times? As I understand it even relatively simple spells cast a couple dozen times is really, really dangerous for even the best Wizard. Have we ever even heard of something like this being done? We're really earning g that Lord Magister tank, huh?
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It's definitely impressive, though opinion would be divided as to whether it's a demonstration of skill or luck. It's not really unprecedented as similar feats have been done by Battle Wizards during sieges, though those stories usually end in a really nasty miscast.

torac said:
But that was not one of the options?
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I had thought you were discussing future plans, not the events of the update that have already occurred and won't be changing. Mathilde did not have the benefit of a 24-hour voting cycle to game out and debate every possible approach, she was in pitch darkness and holding her breath and listening to the desperate hammering of Dwarves in peril and she decided to act.

guyfromtheplace1 said:
Novel rescue idea: we get some wooden sticks with flat plates on their ends, we write the khazalid words 'turn out the light so I don't die when I come through -vouched for by metalsmith guildsmaster/important person X' on the flat plate, then we make sure to stick it through into the top or any compartment before we try to go through.

If that Idea wouldn't get the plat far enough through for someone to read it, at least a casting of substance of shadow on either a normal stick or a signalling stick might be to tell us when we're risking going through into a lit compartment when the stick gets stuck in the wall.
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SoS gets ugly when it pops with one object inside another. Often fatally.

guyfromtheplace1 said:
So it would have been too much of a risk for the big compartment, but even if things go bad and we breach the compartment I think we might be able to rescue faster than a smaller one-person compartment can fill, especially if the testing stick is lower down.
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You need to set up a light source and a shadow and explain to the Dwarf that you're going to lead him to a chain and he needs to hold on to that chain and then you have to lead him through the ship to the chain, a much longer way than just stepping through the outer hull, and then Mathilde needs to find her way to an air pocket before she drowns. That is not a series of actions that you want to do in a rapidly-flooding room.
 
BoneyM said:
To onlookers, the Dwarves would only become visible as SoS was popped by moonlight. It would look like turning the chain somehow caused Dwarves to teleport onto land, one at a time.
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So you're telling me that this rescue was an application of the art of cleverness by moonlight?

This went better than we could reasonably expect. We rolled awful boxcars for number of casualties in the initial setup (1/36 chance), but then rolled 8 on 2d4 for number of survivors (1/16). I guess Ranald likes heightening the drama of the moment.

[X] Scour the river banks for anything the bandits left behind

We desperately need physical evidence.

(Unrelatedly, the next update will mark our 200th main story threadmark, though I'm not sure if we should count the Holiday Opportunity threadmark as an "update" per se.)
 
But what if we got a stick, made it selectively intangible...and used it to scratch that one spot on your back you can never quite reach while we wait for the maritime rescue professionals to arrive and take over?:p
 
BoneyM said:
I had thought you were discussing future plans, not the events of the update that have already occurred and won't be changing. Mathilde did not have the benefit of a 24-hour voting cycle to game out and debate every possible approach, she was in pitch darkness and holding her breath and listening to the desperate hammering of Dwarves in peril and she decided to act.
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That's fair. I was just confused because "poke it with a stick" seemed like such a natural tactic I was surprised to see people arguing against it (and Mathilde not using it).
 
BoneyM said:
It's definitely impressive, though opinion would be divided as to whether it's a demonstration of skill or luck. It's not really unprecedented as similar feats have been done by Battle Wizards during sieges, though those stories usually end in a really nasty miscast.
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So, less ridiculous that we did it, but more that we didn't explode into daemons as a result, and were even willing to try outside the most desperate of circumstances? Panoramia's going to tear into us when we get back, isn't she?
 
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Ericwinter said:
So, less ridiculous that we did it, but more that we explode into daemons as a result, and were even willing to try outside the most desperate of circumstances? Panoramia's going to tear into us when we get back, isn't she?
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With how flooded the holds were and how cold the water is, most probably wouldn't have lasted until conventional rescue. One life saved per cast is about as justified as chain-casting gets.
 
Ericwinter said:
So, less ridiculous that we did it, but more that we explode into daemons as a result, and were even willing to try outside the most desperate of circumstances? Panoramia's going to tear into us when we get back, isn't she?
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She probably wouldn't know whether, like Regimald with Skywalk, Mathilde has a particularly ability to safely cast the spell repeatedly.
 
Ericwinter said:
So, less ridiculous that we did it, but more that we explode into daemons as a result, and were even willing to try outside the most desperate of circumstances? Panoramia's going to tear into us when we get back, isn't she?
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No, as in the feat is usually only done in desperation, when you push your luck that many times you're either going to figure out how to do it safely for that one neat trick like Regimand did, or you eventually roll one too many dice.

Remember, the minor miscasts exhausted Mathilde, she's tired, she's aching and she's had to clean warp goo off her face. Every mistake makes the next mistake more likely and more severe.

Whassup said:
I suddenly see Skaven weaponizing this, sending hordes of slaves upon enemies, while magick'ed. Totally as normal, only this time they blow up without pricey warpstone helping them - nah, who am I kidding. They'd just magick'd warpstone with everything else.
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Its too unreliably harmful. Just about anything could happen.
 
@BoneyM couple questions:
1) What did the 12 represent? The 8 was for survivors, but IIRC we also rolled a 12 somewhere?

2) I don't think we can do this now, but theoretically, can our animated shadow go through airtight gaps? It's 2D after all. I was thinking that a spell that uses your shadow to get through incredibly tight spaces and detects light on the other side would be niche, but potentially very useful. Our shadow already moves, and being a shadow it should be as sensitive to light as it gets, so it seems like a good medium.

Could also be a meaning for communication, had we the fine control (and assuming it can go through the gaps).
 
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