Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: one of the most important things to consider for a quest romance candidate is how narratively important that character is, i.e. how likely it is that we'll want to do things together with them. A character with high narrative importance will naturally appear a lot and hang around Mathilde (or Mathilde will hang around them, same difference), making for easy scenes that have romantic subtext but aren't just about romance. A great example is Natasha in DADA, as she has great involvement in almost all that Frederick does. If a character does not have narrative importance, they are likely to be relegated to occasional romantic scenes that are otherwise completely divorced from the rest of events.

Out of the current top 3, it is my opinion that Johann has the greatest obvious narrative importance as both adventure buddy and fellow researcher. Cython's is also pretty good, because even if we don't romance them, we're still likely to hang around, and they are generally fascinating. Cython is probably not super likely to involve themself directly in stuff Mathilde does... though that might change depending on how strongly they want to involve in Mathilde's life. Panoramia is in my mind the weakest narratively - she spends all her time doing agriculture, which Mathilde has no reason to participate in, and doesn't seem inclined to venture out or engage in research. The only real meeting points are, potentially, Waystones (and then she's not likely to be the prime specialist we'd contact, being a Journeywoman), and defense of K8P if something attacks it.

Out of the other candidates, Roswita seems to have pretty good narrative relevance, since we do care for Stirland, Anton has less, and Oswald has barely any.
I would assume that whoever Mathilde ends up dating would have the most narrative relevance on account of dating Mathilde.

Like, the main love interest is not a role that usually fades into the background, and when they do it's usually a sign of poor writing.
 
Out of the current top 3, it is my opinion that Johann has the greatest obvious narrative importance as both adventure buddy and fellow researcher. Cython's is also pretty good, because even if we don't romance them, we're still likely to hang around, and they are generally fascinating. Cython is probably not super likely to involve themself directly in stuff Mathilde does... though that might change depending on how strongly they want to involve in Mathilde's life. Panoramia is in my mind the weakest narratively - she spends all her time doing agriculture, which Mathilde has no reason to participate in, and doesn't seem inclined to venture out or engage in research. The only real meeting points are, potentially, Waystones (and then she's not likely to be the prime specialist we'd contact, being a Journeywoman), and defense of K8P if something attacks it.
Once Mathilde has firmly settled on a romantic path (another couple of ROMANCE actions down the line), I'd imagine (or at least would hope) that the chosen candidate gets a locked-in social each turn, similar to the wizards/eic/other-initiated ones currently there. Otherwise there's not really much of a 'relationship' if the thread has to actively vote for Mathilde to participate in it at all every few months.

That would make the chosen candidate part of the story's future narrative regardless.
 
[X] [ROMANCE] Magister Johann
[X] [ROMANCE] The Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin

Fellow Wizards
[X] Gretel, who's apparently spending her newly-earned wealth to make herself at home.
[X] Hubert, as he settles in to his niche with Ulrikadrin.

Karak Eight Peaks Notables
[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.
[X] Elder Hluodwica, High Priestess of Esmerelda and civilian leader of the Eight Peaks Halflings.

Friends Abroad
[X] Kasmir, to see how he's keeping himself busy in Sylvania.
[X] Julia, to see what she has gotten up to as Stirland's most experienced spy master.

Following Up
[X] The Amber College, to check in on the salamanders.
[X] The Gold College, to see what's become of their research into Skaven technology.
 
In theory, once Mathilde has firmly settled on a romantic path (another couple of ROMANCE actions down the line), I'd imagine (or at least would hope) that the chosen candidate gets a locked-in social each turn, similar to the wizards/eic/other-initiated ones currently there. Otherwise there's not really much of a 'relationship' if the thread has to actively vote for Mathilde to participate in it at all every few months.

That would make the chosen candidate part of the story's future narrative regardless.

Yes and that's why I sincerely hope Pan doesn't win. Her scenes are actively aggravating, maybe that would change if she isn't constantly going "Hey look I can see through you, hehe" and that's pretty likely but I'm actively dreading Pan winning because unless the scenes change in nature drastically it's going to mean I'll end up literally skipping parts of the updates and that'd kind of suck.
 
"Romantic" in the Byronic, literary movement sense such as the relationship between a boy and his horse and "Romantic" in the love-sex-dating sense are not at all the same concept and I must register my objection to them being treated as interchangeable just because they share the same spelling. I know this won't make a difference, but that kind of thing bothers me.
Asexual people can have romantic feelings as well.
I hope the dragon romance does not succeed, but the romance vote you picked was perfectly fine.
 
[X] [ROMANCE] Magister Johann
[X] [ROMANCE] The Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin
[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
[X] Follow up on your donation of the Skaven organ-vat, and see what has been made of it.
 
"Romantic" in the Byronic, literary movement sense such as the relationship between a boy and his horse and "Romantic" in the love-sex-dating sense are not at all the same concept and I must register my objection to them being treated as interchangeable just because they share the same spelling. I know this won't make a difference, but that kind of thing bothers me.

@Redshirt Army can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure they know what I mean by 'romantic' and they're aware that's what they're voting for. They're just interested in a single aspect of that relationship instead of the whole kaboodle.

I don't see how that matters tbh, like okay say Panoramia tells Mathilde about these secrets. Why does that give the Jade college free reign to murder Mathilde? What you're saying here is that basically the Jade college can use this secret as a "I can murder any one I want card." what if Mathilde gets the information and spreads it in the colleges of magic as a whole?

I assume this is very heavily related to the way stones in which case it makes it even worse because chances are if we do any research on the way stones we may independantly learn this information and the Jade college has no way to know if we did that independantly or from Pan and therefore they're allowed to murder Mathilde.

Religious secrets doesn't give the cults carte blanche to murder who ever they want, not even the Sigmarites wield that level of power overtly, maybe I'm misreading this but it feels very strange that the colleges and the cults can act so easily outside of the law, I realise that the law is a weak thing in the empire but this still feels wrong.

Panoramia revealing Druidic secrets to Mathilde means that she only has those two ways to prevent herself being legally executed by her College for breaching her very explicit vows to not do that.

Yes and that's why I sincerely hope Pan doesn't win. Her scenes are actively aggravating, maybe that would change if she isn't constantly going "Hey look I can see through you, hehe" and that's pretty likely but I'm actively dreading Pan winning because unless the scenes change in nature drastically it's going to mean I'll end up literally skipping parts of the updates and that'd kind of suck.

I'm pretty sure you're into the double digits of posts spent making this exact point. Please stop making it, it's getting beyond a simple expression of opinion.
 
Last edited:
I would assume that whoever Mathilde ends up dating would have the most narrative relevance on account of dating Mathilde.

Like, the main love interest is not a role that usually fades into the background, and when they do it's usually a sign of poor writing.
I saw a counterpoint that I felt was pretty compelling a couple hundred pages back; there was another quest, some Bretonnian Dynasty thing (?), where the player character had a loving wife. And... being a loving wife was all she was. And every time she showed up, it was just to push the 'this is your wife' button. So interacting with her got super boring and stale, because her excuse for getting a higher word count was a state rather than an activity.

Why would Panoramia be talking to us? Because she's our girlfriend? Sweet once or twice, but that's not a narrative. We don't really choose options that involve her any, even though they've existed; it's not like the thread is raring at the bit to interact with her more in any other section of our life. Kragg was such an auto-pick that BoneyM had to take him off of the list because there wasn't anything to write about, which should illustrate that even something really cool, or good and nice, isn't quite the same as them being interesting to always be writing about.
 
Last edited:
Panoramia revealing Druidic secrets to Mathilde means that she only has those two ways to prevent herself being legally executed by her College for breaching her very explicit vows to not do that.
So what you're saying is that convincing Panoramia to tell us the secrets while drunk and then a hurried retroactive marriage and a cavalcade of romcom hijinks is a legitimate route for this to take?
 
I would assume that whoever Mathilde ends up dating would have the most narrative relevance on account of dating Mathilde.

Like, the main love interest is not a role that usually fades into the background, and when they do it's usually a sign of poor writing.
I don't think that's really true. Consider: if Anton wins, even if Mathilde marries him, will he suddenly drop everything to live with Mathilde in K8P? Will he accompany her on adventures? Participate in magic research? Deal with Dwarfs or Elves? Become a fascinating creature to study all by himself like Cython? None of these seem at all likely. He may end up involving himself in Empire politics more on account of his diplomatic excellence, but that's about it. Boney would have to warp reality pretty hard to make him as narratively important as Johann is right now.
In theory, once Mathilde has firmly settled on a romantic path (another couple of ROMANCE actions down the line), I'd imagine (or at least would hope) that the chosen candidate gets a locked-in social each turn, similar to the wizards/eic/other-initiated ones currently there. Otherwise there's not really much of a 'relationship' if the thread has to actively vote for Mathilde to participate in it at all every few months.

That would make the chosen candidate part of the story's future narrative regardless.
Not quite what I'm talking about. Obviously a love interest will have social scenes related to romance, the issue is everything else. This isn't really a romance quest, and most readers haven't turned up to read a love story. Again, consider Johann vs. Anton. If we romance Anton, he'll mostly only show up in those romance social scenes, because as I explained above in this post he's not really capable of doing things in Mathilde's world (and we're not very interested in his barony). If we romance Johann, not only do we get specific romance social scenes, but also scenes that Johann would be present because he's a punch wizard, except with a romantic tinge. Accompanying us on adventures, researching potential Chaos Dwarf tech that we might salvage, writing papers, etc. are all things that he'd likely show up on regardless (although he might become even more likely to accompany us if romanced), giving the relationship more weight, space, and natural integration into the rest of the narrative.
 
Voting for the romance I want and then approval voting for literally anything other than the romances I don't want, which seems to be the sensible way to do it. (Okay, not literally anything, I don't want to go back to the fief.)


[X] [ROMANCE] Magister Johann

[X] Gretel, who's apparently spending her newly-earned wealth to make herself at home.

[X] Hubert, as he settles in to his niche with Ulrikadrin.

[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.

[X] Elder Hluodwica, High Priestess of Esmerelda and civilian leader of the Eight Peaks Halflings.

[X] Francesco Caravello, proud Viceroy of the Undumgi.

[X] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart, leader of the frontier town of Ulrikadrin.

[X] Barak Varr, to watch the progress of the canal.
[X] Stirland, to see for yourself how the war against Sylvania is progressing.

[X] Kasmir, to see how he's keeping himself busy in Sylvania.
[X] Julia, to see what she has gotten up to as Stirland's most experienced spy master.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.

[X] The Amber College, to check in on the salamanders.
[X] The Gold College, to see what's become of their research into Skaven technology.
[X] Follow up on your donation of the Skaven organ-vat, and see what has been made of it.
 
[X] [ROMANCE] Journeywoman Panoramia
[X] [ROMANCE] Magister Johann
[X] [ROMANCE] The Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin
[X] [ROMANCE] Baron Anton Kiesinger II
[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.
[X] Barak Varr, to watch the progress of the canal.
[X] Stirland, to see for yourself how the war against Sylvania is progressing.
[X] Kasmir, to see how he's keeping himself busy in Sylvania.
[X] Julia, to see what she has gotten up to as Stirland's most experienced spy master.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
[X] The Amber College, to check in on the salamanders.
[X] The Gold College, to see what's become of their research into Skaven technology.
[X] Follow up on your donation of the Skaven organ-vat, and see what has been made of it.
[X] Pay a visit to your fief, to see if anything has changed. It probably hasn't.
 
And now to my actual vote:

[X] [ROMANCE] Journeywoman Panoramia
[X] [ROMANCE] Magister Johann

These two have been my top choices from the start and I find that, despite having since been intrigued by both the Dragon and Anton in the short term, ultimately what I want hasn't changed.

[X] Kasmir, to see how he's keeping himself busy in Sylvania.

Since we only get four winning votes I am sadly not going for this one, what with it being in the fourth place and me still holding out hope that Johann will rise on the tally.
Turns out I looked at the tally cross-eyed or something. The Dragon is fourth place and I definitely want Kasmir to beat him out.

Edit:

[X] Pay a visit to your fief, to see if anything has changed. It probably hasn't.

I very much don't expect this to win, but I do want to signal that at least someone still cares about this option.
 
Last edited:
So what you're saying is that convincing Panoramia to tell us the secrets while drunk and then a hurried retroactive marriage and a cavalcade of romcom hijinks is a legitimate route for this to take?
Panoramia accidentally blurting out something during the Duckling club and then having to convince all of them to marry her (or kill them) sounds like either the premise of a comedy manga, or a game in the vein of Yandere Simulator.
 
Voting for the romance I want and then approval voting for literally anything other than the romances I don't want, which seems to be the sensible way to do it. (Okay, not literally anything, I don't want to go back to the fief.)

It's not. Vote for the things you actually want. Artificially inflating the non-romance votes won't change who will eventually win the romance voting, it will just make it take longer.
 
Last edited:
...Well, this definitely isn't the voting landscape I expected to see when I woke up.

Re-quoting my effortpost:
"...what?" I'm sure you're saying. "Pickle has literally never voted for Johann romance. What gives? Has he been replaced by three gherkins in a trenchcoat?"

Well, here's the thing: my top choices didn't really pan out. The potential I thought I saw in Oswald, way back in October 2019, didn't materialize; he's cool and all, but neither his social action nor his romance action won much in the way of fellow enthusiasts. At some point, I need to admit that I was jumping at shadows and overly reading into things, and I think that point is now. And while Roswita is adorable and I love her, again, her romance action didn't seem to really win hearts and minds.

But Johann? Johann's zeroth date won me over.

Mathilde has protagonist powers up the wazoo. Her magical talent expresses itself potently and evenly, not restricting her magical growth at all, and the upshot of that is that she's butting up against potential Lady Magister status at barely thirty-five. She spent longer as a Journeyman than she has as a Magister; her growth has been nothing short of meteoric. She's capable of gaining remarkable skill in any field she chooses to set herself to, in a fairly short span of time. She's got a god in her corner, one of the greatest books of magic ever written in her vault, and the some extremely significant movers and shakers in her social calendar. And, most significantly, she has seized every opportunity to leverage her resources into opportunities to gain more resources. She is, in short, a quest PC.

Johann has none of that. He has a magical handicap, a distinct lack of highly-connected friends as far as we know (save only for Gehenna and, well, us), and can't roll a fucking boxcar to save his life eyes. Here's what he's got:
"Probably do to most, but you need to be at least theoretically capable of Alchemy to take the class." He keeps his tone light, but it's clearly artificial.

"Ah." You remember a few of your classmates who ran into similar roadblocks. Most of them are still Apprentices to this day.

"Yeah. I was lucky that my Master gave me the chance to prove myself instead of dropping me right into Perpetual. I decided if I was going to be stuck at one third of a Gold Wizard, I'd have to be three times as good to break even. Eventually I had begged, borrowed, and stole enough coin for my first Gilding. Got made Journeyman on the spot. Who needs alchemy?"
Johann is scrappy as fuck. We already know they get along great and collaborate well, but above and beyond those bare essentials for a relationship, that is the sort of attitude that I think can really generate a positive dynamic with Mathilde: challenging her by example. Mathilde has the classic Grey Order pathological need to appear in control at all times -- and, in fact, she really is in control of the situation at most times, because she's incredibly talented, invested her gains in more gains, and has a committee of extremely dedicated nerds planning out her career path. But Johann isn't in control of the situation, seems to almost never have been, and hasn't let that stop him. To quote the We:
But not-We are only ever one not-We, but they still hunt, and they hunt such that if they were other-We, we would consider it mating-suitability.
Johann hunts magnificently, despite being only one (or, to use his words, only one-third). I consider that mating-suitability. He has my vote.
C'mon, Johann voters! Lend him your energy effortposts!
 
Last edited:
If the Druidic secrets really are held that closely by the Jades, I'm leaning further towards cashing in one of the Great Deeds to get their co-operation on the Waystones project (once Belegar actually picks it as a Loremaster Project).

I was kind of thinking it would be something we could Favour our way into, or nudge Panoramia into collaborating on. But that level of cult-secrecy is something that would need an Imperial Command to bypass. And those secrets are likely to be something that would make the difference between making the project a success or failure.
 
[X] [ROMANCE] Journeywoman Panoramia

Cython would (and hopefully will) make for a great friend, but I have zero interest in a romantic relationship with a being that is millennia older and has very little common frame of reference to build on - and that assumes they're even interested. The power and experience differential seems like it would lead to a very unequal relationship.

Panoramia, on the other, is adorable. I enjoy it a lot when she takes the straightwoman role in a scene; the notorious eyeroll bit that some posters dislike so much is a highlight to their interactions as far as I'm concerned. I'm also interested to hear more about her revitalization of the Karak Eight Peaks ecosystem. That's really cool and it's been slightly understated in the thread so far. Ultimately, I think having someone slightly more grounded, but with her own ambitions and idiosyncrasies, will make a good foil for Mathilde.

Johann would be my second choice, but only if Pan isn't interested.

[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.
[X] Gretel, who's apparently spending her newly-earned wealth to make herself at home.
[X] Barak Varr, to watch the progress of the canal.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
[X] Kasmir, to see how he's keeping himself busy in Sylvania.
 
It's not. Vote for the things you actually want. Artificially inflating the non-romance votes won't change what will eventually win the romance voting, it will just make it take longer.
It does (slightly) decrease the likelyhood of multiple romance votes winning during the same turn. Ans since some people care about the number of winning romance votes nearly as much as they do about who in particular wins and yet you haven't given players any option to vote on that, it seems like a fair vote if you aren't really passionately in favor or against any of the non-romance options. None of them are mechanically significant or putting us on a firm narrative path after all. And personally I trust you to write something cool even for the social options that I'm not burning to see.
 
Back
Top