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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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BoneyM said:
Maybe not Angrund, but you'd arrange some sort of back-up to go with you.
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Huh, I thought they were especially happy with us. I asked for confirmation because I think that's how it went when we decided to go by Gyrocopter to deliver our barrel's worth of tithes: that we could get some hammerers due our position, and Angrund were super happy to help regardless on account of retaking their ancestral home and all of that.

If it's the Chaos Wastes, then hammerers in runic bling is what I'd want.

Are there non-Angrund hammerers?
 
picklepikkl said:
I think you'll have a hard time getting the turn staff + craft armor actions past the thread without the study AV enchanting action taken first. My personal inclination would be to turn the staff and experiment with AV enchanting next turn, and then craft the armor on turn 3. If AV has any useful properties for multi-wind enchanting, for instance, that would be good to know before we try crafting our robes.

This looks good apart from that.
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Hmm, fair. Even if one of the direct actions gets replaced with AV Enchantment studies, that's still 6 actions across 3 turns, which matches acceptable standards.

Artemis1992 said:
Not really happy about Asarnil.
As far as we know Karak Dum is a classic Karak, meaning everything important is inside the mountain.

We'd be spending incredible amounts of money on him while he can only serve as escort to and from the goal and not contribute in the main-instance at all.
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I mean, "an escort to and from the goal" is still incredibly valuable, to say nothing of the added security of knowing you can gtfo the mountain and have a dragon provide backup if there's something really awful inside.

It'll be KaK footing the bill, and I think it'd be money very well spent.

NuclearConsensus said:
Perhaps add hiring Gretel and the Besiegers to the list? The Besiegers proved their ability underground in the K8P free for all so they'll likely come in handy in Karag Dum.
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If after our initial scouting we think that she'll be safe enough, I'd consider it. That'll also give a year for the Marienburg situation to settle one way or the other before we try to hire the besiegers.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
Huh, I thought they were especially happy with us. I asked for confirmation because I think that's how it went when we decided to go by Gyrocopter to deliver our barrel's worth of tithes: that we could get some hammerers due our position, and Angrund were super happy to help regardless on account of retaking their ancestral home and all of that.
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They'd provide an honour guard for diplomatic visits or back-up, but these are Dwarves from a Noble Clan that are currently building their lives, not full-time Warriors. It's asking a bit much for them to sit in a gyrocarriage for a few months because there might be a fight at some point.

TotallyNotEvil said:
Are there non-Angrund hammerers?
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There are, and they might be what Mathilde ends up rustling up for back-up.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Thoughts?
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I actually do seriously want to (in the next couple of turns) take [ ] Hire a trainer to come to Eight Peaks and teach you: specify what. (costs favours for Dwarf trainers, money for human ones). We have access to trainers that have specialties for scouting and larger intrigue scores than us. I doubt we'd be lucky enough to meet dwarf!Solid Snake as I joked earlier, but when BoneyM says we can pay to get world-class training, I think we'd be silly not to take it when appropriate. Scouting the Chaos Wastes is as good an excuse as any. And while most dwarfs culturally disdain Intrigue stuff, there are Rangers who've spent hundreds of years stalking the surface, and they'd take Mastery of their craft as seriously as any other dwarf.

Remember that Mathilde was impressed by Gretel's sneaking, saying that she was better at it than Mathilde was without her magic. Mathilde's 24 Intrigue is a combination of mundane skill and magical spellcasting, and it wouldn't do to neglect future non-magical skill training.
 
Redshirt Army said:
So, some rough multi-turn planning, assuming a three turn deadline:

This Turn
Prep: Enchantment, Runes, Anti-Chaos
Direct: Qretch/LM Grey Interview

Next Turn
Prep: Turn Staff, Armor
Direct: Kislev Talks, Scouting 1

Turn Three
Direct: Scouting 2, Scouting 3, Scouting 4, Hire Asarnil

Thoughts?
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I'd drop the 4th scouting action corresponding to High Pass - it's not dangerous enough to need it, really. I'd also drop hiring Arsanil for hiring Wizards because I agree that the thread is largely overestimating the dangers of the Chaos Wastes to Wizards specifically.
 
Derpmind said:
I actually do seriously want to (in the next couple of turns) take [ ] Hire a trainer to come to Eight Peaks and teach you: specify what. (costs favours for Dwarf trainers, money for human ones). We have access to trainers that have specialties for scouting and larger intrigue scores than us. I doubt we'd be lucky enough to meet dwarf!Solid Snake as I joked earlier, but when BoneyM says we can pay to get world-class training, I think we'd be silly not to take it when appropriate. Scouting the Chaos Wastes is as good an excuse as any. And while most dwarfs culturally disdain Intrigue stuff, there are Rangers who've spent hundreds of years stalking the surface, and they'd take Mastery of their craft as seriously as any other dwarf.

Remember that Mathilde was impressed by Gretel's sneaking, saying that she was better at it than Mathilde was without her magic. Mathilde's 24 Intrigue is a combination of mundane skill and magical spellcasting, and it wouldn't do to neglect future non-magical skill training.
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This is a very good point.
BoneyM said:
Advanced Infiltration: It takes significant effort to make it even slightly difficult for you to enter somewhere. +3 Intrigue
Master Infiltration (1/4)
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If I understand the mechanics correctly, at this point we have exhausted what we can learn from the College classes and require either practical experience or hero-level direct instruction to improve further.
 
Redshirt Army said:
So, some rough multi-turn planning, assuming a three turn deadline:

This Turn
Prep: Enchantment, Runes, Anti-Chaos
Direct: Qretch/LM Grey Interview

Next Turn
Prep: Turn Staff, Armor
Direct: Kislev Talks, Scouting 1

Turn Three
Direct: Scouting 2, Scouting 3, Scouting 4, Hire Asarnil

Thoughts?
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Sounds about right, Although I'm not sure on the timeline. I believe the expedition is supposed to head off in 4 turns (including this one) at the earliest which would mean you can spread it out a bit more.
picklepikkl said:
I think you'll have a hard time getting the turn staff + craft armor actions past the thread without the study AV enchanting action taken first. My personal inclination would be to turn the staff and experiment with AV enchanting next turn, and then craft the armor on turn 3. If AV has any useful properties for multi-wind enchanting, for instance, that would be good to know before we try crafting our robes.
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I think the AV enchanting is a bit dubious really. All we've seen AV be able to do is break open for a bunch of magical oomph. If we want more power for enchantments we can go to Ulgu saturated areas or use Power Stones.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, but we shouldn't expect anything more useful than screwing up our enchantment because we released a bunch of random magic into it.
Artemis1992 said:
Not really happy about Asarnil.
As far as we know Karak Dum is a classic Karak, meaning everything important is inside the mountain.

We'd be spending incredible amounts of money on him while he can only serve as escort to and from the goal and not contribute in the main-instance at all.
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The real danger is likely the trip there and back. It's a smash and grab operation after all.
 
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WorldSlayer said:
I think the AV enchanting is a bit dubious really. All we've seen AV be able to do is break open for a bunch of magical oomph. If we want more power for enchantments we can go to Ulgu saturated areas or use Power Stones.

I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, but we shouldn't expect anything more useful than screwing up our enchantment because we released a bunch of random magic into it.
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Mmmmph. Personally, I also don't expect much from the AV enchanting action, but the thread seems to really really want it. Hard to say whether that's just a vocal minority or not before we put it to a vote, I guess.
BoneyM said:
Correct.
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Hooray! I love understanding the mechanics correctly.
 
Man, that enchanted-boiler stealth gyrocarriage would be mighty handy just about now, eh?

@BoneyM For how long can Mathilde keep an illusion going, once its cast? Could she concentrate on keeping a gyro invisible and silent while she sits on it? At least when passing close to Chaos Dwarf territory?
 
Deathbybunnies said:
I'd drop the 4th scouting action corresponding to High Pass - it's not dangerous enough to need it, really. I'd also drop hiring Arsanil for hiring Wizards because I agree that the thread is largely overestimating the dangers of the Chaos Wastes to Wizards specifically.
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I think that the Wizards volunteer discussion is based on a mix of good information, misinterpretation, all topped off with "This is BoneyM's take on WHF, not WHF, a thing that has already been reinterpreted by its writers many times"

My point is that I think that we should table the "get wizards" idea until we get one or two scouting actions done and have bought all the relevant books.

Edit: I think having Asarnil would be very useful tbh, provided he's ok with guard duty while the expedition goes into the hold, having a "Dragon as a mobile hardpoint" that people can fall back to if they get chased out of the Karak, or if an attack from outside the Karak happens would be quite useful imo.

Edit edit: I'd say that it would be more useful than the Ice Witches' help, though that option appeals to me more in terms of 'interesting', if we are considering that option, then I'd argue that at the least we get all the zero-favour books that we can get on them.
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
Dhar exposure in the chaos wastes at least the depth of Karak Dum should be trivial. The chaos wastes are where the winds of magic begin to blow very heavily, but it doesn't become dhar just from higher ambient levels of the winds you wont even get to storm of magic levels at Karak Dum. At least I wouldn't expect it.
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According to Tome of Corruption, 'The further one travels towards the Realm of Chaos, the greater effect it has on casting spells. Wizards find it harder to separate the Winds of Magic into distinct colours, resulting in sometimes disastrous mishaps and accidents. However, those spellcasters who use Dark Magic find their technique particularly suited to this climate. ' There's not just more of the Winds, they're turbulent and hard to seperate, and even on the edges you're significantly more likely to miscast.
 
[x] Plan Keep It Classy

Gotta say this is a great plan. Due a bunch of circunstances, more or less every other action on the KD assignment are better done, and well worth the time, only much closer to when it will leave. Waiting to recruit wizards means that the Battle Boys might be done with Sylvania and more of them might have graduated, due our brand new Rooms of Calamity.

Waiting a bit more also means the Witches might be done, or close to done, with the Ogre problem, so they should be more likely to help and Asarnil should be available. I assume someone cleared it with Boney that bringing him wouldn't insult the dwarfs? Enormous treks on wide open plains is prime cavalry terrain, but more than that, it's prime dragon terrain. He will be able to see everything around and throughly burn whatever threatens the expedition.

Similar considerations go for hiring mercs: a campaign three and a half years into the future is a dicey proposition.

Has anyone asked if the Skink Cold One regiment has troubles with the cold up north?
 
Speaking of being significantly more likely to miscast, I think it's not impossible that we'll be locked out of "safely" casting our top tier of spells when we're in the Chaos Wastes themselves, at least without rolling for miscast chances - so we shouldn't rely on being able to teleport.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Not really happy about Asarnil.
As far as we know Karak Dum is a classic Karak, meaning everything important is inside the mountain.

We'd be spending incredible amounts of money on him while he can only serve as escort to and from the goal and not contribute in the main-instance at all.
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Getting there is an incredible challenge all of its own. ANd dragons haver taken Dwarven Karaks before. They're large enough for dragons to wander around inside.

NuclearConsensus said:
Perhaps add hiring Gretel and the Besiegers to the list? The Besiegers proved their ability underground in the K8P free for all so they'll likely come in handy in Karag Dum.
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I suppose the opposition would appreciate us bringing along a source of converts and spawn fodder if you think we have it too easy...

Redshirt Army said:
Speaking of being significantly more likely to miscast, I think it's not impossible that we'll be locked out of "safely" casting our top tier of spells when we're in the Chaos Wastes themselves, at least without rolling for miscast chances - so we shouldn't rely on being able to teleport.
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I think we should seriously consider buying several Ulgu Powerstones to use in emergencies when we don't want to risk drawing on the ambient Winds.

Given that I think we've been told that appropriately prepared powerstones can recharge themselves as part of magic items, we may want to look into commissioning a rechargeable battery made of power stones if that's possible. Possibly also paying a runesmith/lord to build a container that isolates it from outside influence as well.
 
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Hmm.

Obviously this is all speculative and we don't know if their situation is the same, but if Karak Dum is in the same situation of thinking the whole world fell to Chaos as in the books, and they believe only 15 or so years passed, I wonder what their response to a combined Dwarf/Elf/Human rescue force rolling up would be?

Something like "oh ancestors, things got so bad that you had to get elves involved?!" :thonk:
 
Oh, and Keep It Classy also knocks (assuming we aren't too unlucky) three big pre-reqs for "Stuff We Want To Do": Enchanting to Master, Magic Runes and Powerstones.

This should help AV enchanting and both powerstone experiments, which then should let us happily go for new Staff and Robes.

Given we are doing Coin this turn, it shouldn't be too hard to damn near finish off AV next one.

Magical learning is a reward in and of itself, but finally being able to do the stuff we want in a satisfyingly optimal manner is even better.

@edit: Doesn't actually have Powerstones. I still like it best.
 
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