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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Vebyast said:
If we don't vote for the "they can pay you back" option he apparently won't even know that that option exists. At that point the only option is to either take the option we voted for - go to war - or not. And it's not going to be "not". The structure of the vote and how Mathilde is apparently going to be handling it indicates that we are making this choice.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but i'm pretty sure BoneyM said we are only choosing what to say
 
[X] No, but they could help break the blockade

The Elves aren't going to get involved, and the Dwarves can steamroll their blockade trivially with their ironclads and dreadnoughts.
 
I'll remind everybody that the canals are a dwarven project. The empire getting punished for the project occurring isn't the responsibility of the Empire, because the empire did not commission the canals, the dwarves did. The Empire asking the dwarves for help would not be cowardice because they did not start the conflict, and in helping the empire the dwarves would be repaid with a far superior market share and closer economic and diplomatic ties.
 
Sir_Travelsalot said:
I can see the point of other people's arguments, but I frankly don't want to set the example for Marienburg that they can throw their weight around like this. Because that just means they'll try it again down the line.
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What? Having the Karaz Ankor prop up the Empire shows them that all of their money is useless. That's the biggest possible flex. Sitting some ships on them is treating a symptom. They'll just rebuild and try again later. Showing them that their money is useless, and then taking that money away from them, destroys them completely.

Also: Once the canal is complete, Marienburg is dead. Their only resource is money, and their only source of money is river trade, and the canal takes that trade away from them. Their entire military right now is mercenaries. They'll be destitute in a decade. That's the entire reason they're throwing their weight around right now! It's literally their only option; they're desperate. Do not give in by letting them provoke a war.
 
Lupercal said:
That is not how independence movements work. We all reach back to an imagined past to galvanise support. I garuntee you that since independence the rulers of Marienburg have been paying for street performers to perfome plays about how perdiferous Sigmar invaded and subjugated them and how the magnates who baught the cities freedom are grand patriots who represent the best qualities of all marienburgers.
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This isn't a modern state and I really don't think the populace was that engaged on the process especially since the independence was not gained by war which would create a glorious narrative but base bribery.
 
[X] No, but they could help break the blockade

If the Merchants want to escalate further... Well, Reconqest Casus belli is a thing.
 
Slamu said:
As I understand it, Kragg's focus on his craft centers around arete, about making the best something he can, and that extends to making the best apprentice he can, and that to do that he needs the best material to work with so if he finds the perfect neophyte he'll teach them what he knows, but in this fallen and debased world he's more likely to have a Skaven hauling a wagon of gromril in front of him, apologize for all the grudges and then fall on the ground dead so Kragg doesn't have to kill the raki himself than come across as someone worthy of being taught by him. Is that a fair assessment?
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A little brutal, but not inaccurate.
 
DragonParadox said:
This isn't a modern state and I really don't think the populace was that engaged on the process especially since the independence was not gained by war which would create a glorious narrative but base bribery.
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Nation building via popular media predates modern states. The Epic of Gilgamesh is exactly that kind of nation buidling and its the oldest written story we have access to.
 
[X] No, but they could help break the blockade

seriously the dwarves would love to send a few cannon balls at any elves who try to stop them
 
Vebyast said:
What? Having the Karaz Ankor prop up the Empire shows them that all of their money is useless. That's the biggest possible flex. Sitting some ships on them is treating a symptom. They'll just rebuild and try again later. Showing them that their money is useless, and then taking that money away from them, destroys them completely.

Also: Once the canal is complete, Marienburg is dead. Their only resource is money, and their only source of money is river trade, and the canal takes that trade away from them. Their entire military right now is mercenaries. They'll be destitute in a decade. That's the entire reason they're throwing their weight around right now! It's literally their only option; they're desperate. Do not give in by letting them provoke a war.
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They will not try again later, because later they will be unable to blockade the Empire. That's literally the entire point of this exercise for the Empire - to remove that leverage.

Marienburg stands to lose a lot of money from not being able to massively tariff goods entering and leaving the Empire, but it is not an existential threat - they will still be an extremely valuable position on one of the two main trade routes to the Empire. This is not an existential crisis to them, this is them not being able to dictate terms to the Empire anymore.
 
[X] No, but they could help break the blockade or make up for the loss of trade.

@BoneyM would this be a valid write-in? It's essentially just informing the Chamberlain that the Karaz Ankor can and will back the Empire in the trade dispute with Marienburg without blocking off options for any negotiating tactics the Chamberlain might want to take.
 
Zero Gravitas said:
The problem is that Marienburg actively enforcing a blockade is an act of war and if Elgi factions are helping that... well, things are already critical. The negotiations don't have to be hostile - Empire could for example officially concede the rights for all that wind that goes through the Waystones for some serious diplomatic concessions on Marienburg.
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It isn't as much a blockade as closing its city to certain travelers... And again I maintain that any attempt to use the waystones for political gain is just going to end with the High Elves demonstrating that this is something you really don't mess with. Mess with them andyou threaten Ulthuan itself.
 
[X] They can make up for the loss in trade

I think Marienburg wants a military provocation so that they can pull the elves in. Let's just not give it to them.
 
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