Remove ads

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Voting is open
Reader mode
picklepikkl said:
My take is that using our EIC half-action next turn to get the EIC to buy the niter factory from us (or whatever) is probably a good idea; if the gunpowder consultant loses this vote, which it looks like it will, that would still empower the EIC to expand niter production in a way that makes sense for it. With pure niter availability being the bottleneck factor for gunpowder production, expanded production would give Wilhelmina additional ability to bargain with the dwarves for gunpowder, and provide a logical jumping-off point for future domestic gunpowder manufacture if that proves to make sense down the line.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

My main problem with this exercise is that the premise is flawed, why do this in the firts place ? What shortage needs adresing ? Wouldn't EIC time and resources be better invested in other direction, wich would also have the benefit of expanding our infonetwork ?
And so forth this whole thing seen to have grow from the idea that if we can marginaly improve the repeaters we must, got a boost from the pervasive notion we must get rid of our resources as fast as possible before having them irritates people somehow and we seen to be planing how to get this done whitout considering what is the point of even doing it in the first place.
 
I don't care about the EIC itself, but unloading the factory we embezzled from the Watch and then forgot about makes sense to me; they might be able to do some actual good with it, if the high-quality gunpowder in the world increases from expanded niter production.

(I am sympathetic to reclaiming the half-action, but I do kind of want Mathilde to have her own intel network. Knowing what's going on in the world is fun.)
 
Lightwhispers said:
Every part of this is wrong. This is directly contradicted by information from the most recent social turn. (Part 1)

Cutting off their trade does affect them, significantly. And Roswita is not conducting active siege operations, as also mentioned in that visit - she's effectively doing a trade blockade, while she builds up forces and supplies to do not just a siege, but active assault.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Huh, I stand corrected. I was under the idea that Roswita was running the clock between winning the war and going into insolvency over gunpowder supplies.

I still stand by the gunpowder vote, but now on a more long-term basis. The gunpowder factory will give Stirland and the Empire at large the ability to maintain and stockpile Repeaters. That is a worthy prize for 5 Dwarf Favours.
 
Last edited:
Mopman43 said:
What organization would you want to use the half-action for?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Any number of things. Maybe the Library, maybe another subordinate, maybe something related to AV or Windstones.

Or, heck, fold Johann into the formalized Wizard Order at K8P and free up another half action, and then combine the two for an extra full action every turn.
 
Zaratustra said:
My main problem with this exercise is that the premise is flawed, why do this in the firts place ? What shortage needs adresing ? Wouldn't EIC time and resources be better invested in other direction, wich would also have the benefit of expanding our infonetwork ?
And so forth this whole thing seen to have grow from the idea that if we can marginaly improve the repeaters we must, got a boost from the pervasive notion we must get rid of our resources as fast as possible before having them irritates people somehow and we seen to be planing how to get this done whitout considering what is the point of even doing it in the first place.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The EIC's current focus is gun production, so it's not like helping the EIC profit off of improving the Empire's overall gunpowder quality is off-brand. It would be a marginal benefit to Stirland, sure, but it would also be a marginal benefit to anyone else the EIC sold to, which is liable to expand over time.

And being the Empire's premier gunpowder producer would probably both be very profitable and give them ins to expand operations into other provinces, if spreading the info network's your goal.

My dream scenario here is that we sell off the nitre factory this turn, shell out for the factory and hire a Grey PA to manage intelligence gathering the next turn, hire informants and the like the turn after that, and then rely on the Grey PA to manage things while we throw our half-action elsewhere forever after. And I suppose we could also throw in the river guards action if we wanted to. But yeah, my idea of integrating the Gong Farmers into the EIC and then throwing some favors for gunpowder at them is designed to, among other things, ensure that we never have to worry about the Gong Farmers and Stirland's guns again. Just... remove the Gong Farmers from the Organizations list, delete that income line item, wrap up Stirland's Happy Fun-Time Gun Adventures, everyone gets what they want and we all lived happily ever after.
 
picklepikkl said:
I don't care about the EIC itself, but unloading the factory we embezzled from the Watch and then forgot about makes sense to me; they might be able to do some actual good with it, if the high-quality gunpowder in the world increases from expanded niter production.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I mean, that's the status quo. The niter is going to the dwarves who have been able to expand their own production. It's not that we've forgotten about it, it's that things are operating as smoothly as possible. We are currently selling the niter for as much as human gunpowder goes for. There is no reason to change things up.

[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
 
I am not in love with the EIC as it is, but I don't consider it the worst use for a half-action.

That being said, while controlling EIC and Mathilde's shares in it are a thing, I do like facilitating her unique influence among Dwarfs for some in-character strategic benefits which I find satisfying narratively.

If we get offered a better alternative for the half-action, then I would vote for it.

In the meantime, I prefer making use of EIC rather than not.
 
Mr Apollo said:
I mean, that's the status quo. The niter is going to the dwarves who have been able to expand their own production. It's not that we've forgotten about it, it's that things are operating as smoothly as possible. We are currently selling the niter for as much as human gunpowder goes for. There is no reason to change things up.

[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's not. There's a single niter factory, whose entire's production goes to Zhufbar.

Expanding the supply of niter that would be preferable for everyone, but Mathilde is too busy and too far away to do it.

Hence, the proposal to transfer the niter factory to EIC, who have the time and resources to expand the niter production in the future.
 
Mr Apollo said:
I mean, that's the status quo. The niter is going to the dwarves who have been able to expand their own production. It's not that we've forgotten about it, it's that things are operating as smoothly as possible. We are currently selling the niter for as much as human gunpowder goes for. There is no reason to change things up.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Right, but we're selling the niter from one place and the money is going into our pockets, where it isn't doing much of use (or, technically, it isn't going into our pockets, because it's been piling up without us collecting it). The idea, as @kfrar laid out, is "get the EIC doing this so that Wilhelmina can expand the gong farmer/niter factory scheme to more places and more high-quality gunpowder can get made overall."
kfrar said:
By making nitre production expansion into something the EIC will want to do on its own, we eliminate the concerns about playing a zero-sum game.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And then we don't need to worry about it.
 
Mr Apollo said:
I mean, that's the status quo. The niter is going to the dwarves who have been able to expand their own production. It's not that we've forgotten about it, it's that things are operating as smoothly as possible. We are currently selling the niter for as much as human gunpowder goes for. There is no reason to change things up.

[X] [DWARF] No purchase.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It does change things, in that it increases accessibility of high quality gunpowder for Imperial consumers. As it is, Zhufbar stockpiles/uses significant portions of its gunpowder production locally and sells off the rest, which leaves the market dearth of pure gunpowder for Imperials. This incentivizes Imperial quartermasters to use inferior human gunpowder that causes guns to erode and prevents anyone from making large stockpiles of Repeaters. Having the EIC construct the Powder Factory gives Stirland and other Imperials first pick of the production.

There's also a lot of expansion potential for the EIC to consider, since vertical integration of nitre & gunpowder production will allow it to undercut everyone in the powder market and help standardize the Imperial armies.

Granted this does mean Zhufbar will have to make do with less nitre for now, but once this powder industry gets going the EIC will have the opportunity to organically expand the gong farmers and nitre facilities to produce surplus.
 
BoneyM said:
Battle: Surreptitious Intervention
Twice now, fate has thrust you into the position of commander. You, however, have no intention of respecting fate's opinion on the matter. You can do the most good placing your eyes and blades where they're least suspected and most useful, leaving matters of command and high-level strategy to those that have dedicated their lives to it.

Added trait: Unseen - Unless specifically on the lookout for magical infiltration, active defences are no obstacle to you. +2 Intrigue.
Master Infiltration (1/4)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Huh, was just looking over our character sheet, and realized that this is our first sight of a Master-tier skill above Advanced. I assume that Master Greatsword will come after a lot of tinkering and practice with Branulhune in forging a unique style that exploits its unique capabilities. I wonder if we need to do more than take College classes to get points in a Master skill.
 
Voting closed, writing will begin shortly.

Brogatar said:
@BoneyM How much debt do we still owe the grey collage ? or has that been taken care of?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Taken care of.

Alratan said:
We could, for example, potentially save a huge number of actions with a runic item that accelerates Learning, given the precedent of the Rune of Brotherhood and Master Rune of Kings. As actions are our most valuable commodity, that could be well worth it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That precedent only involves Dwarves, and Mathilde isn't one.

HanEmpire said:
@BoneyM how does intellectual property work when it comes to Dwarf expertise? Could the EIC spread the knowledge it gets to other facilities? Sell lessons to students from non-EIC experts?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

In modern terms, the EIC has bought a non-transferable license to that technology. Knowledge of how to use and maintain it can be spread internally, but deliberately passing it on to non-EIC or reverse-engineering it beyond what they were explicitly taught would be a grudgin' if they were caught. In Dwarf terms, the Guild Secret is shared with the 'guild' of the EIC, and they're allowed to maintain that knowledge, but it's not theirs to spread beyond that.

Rafin said:
@BoneyM do positions of power other than feudal lords have something like a CK2 style Council as well in your world? I mean people like the Ar-Ulric or a College Patriarch or a leader of one of the Destruction aligned factions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes, to varying extents. When you boil it down, the CK2-style council is just a formalized set of titles and spheres for the uppermost level of a chain of command, and it's not an uncommon idea. A Steward-equivalent might instead be called a Bursar or a Vicar or a Paymaster or a Purser or a Master of Coin or a CFO.

ChronOblivion said:
Huh, was just looking over our character sheet, and realized that this is our first sight of a Master-tier skill above Advanced. I assume that Master Greatsword will come after a lot of tinkering and practice with Branulhune in forging a unique style that exploits its unique capabilities. I wonder if we need to do more than take College classes to get points in a Master skill.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Master cannot be taught in College classes, that's the level where you either need one-on-one consultation with one of the foremost figures in the field or to figure it out yourself.
 
BoneyM said:
In modern terms, the EIC has bought a non-transferable license to that technology. Knowledge of how to use and maintain it can be spread internally, but deliberately passing it on to non-EIC or reverse-engineering it beyond what they were explicitly taught would be a grudgin' if they were caught. In Dwarf terms, the Guild Secret is shared with the 'guild' of the EIC, and they're allowed to maintain that knowledge, but it's not theirs to spread beyond that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Would this apply to our niter factory's dwarf-sourced process improvements if we transferred the factory to the EIC, since we're an owner? Or would the dwarves view "Mathilde transferring the factory to a separate business entity, which then takes the process improvements allowing for dwarf-purity niter crystals and creating new EIC-owned niter factories incorporating those improvements" as Mathilde violating their license?
 
My biggest issue with the niter plan, besides the many other problems that have been pointed out, is how annoying the guns lobby has been.

Guns in this quest have consistently had a advocates who propose a limited "common sense" action involving them. "Just get one more handgun", "just get dwarf help for this bit here", and so on. None of these are necessarily bad by themselves, but in total they result in a larger overall focus on improving guns.

Having such a repeated focus on something that I am not interested in (as it feels like a stealth uplift) isn't something I want to see, especially when every time we are assured that this will be the last time it comes up... until another gun related shiny appears.

Edit: Ninjaed by vote lock
 
Last edited:
picklepikkl said:
Would this apply to our niter factory's dwarf-sourced process improvements if we transferred the factory to the EIC, since we're an owner? Or would the dwarves view "Mathilde transferring the factory to a separate business entity, which then takes the process improvements allowing for dwarf-purity niter crystals and creating new EIC-owned niter factories incorporating those improvements" as Mathilde violating their license?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The factory has already transferred from the Spymaster of Stirland to Magister Weber, transferring it once more to the EIC is fine. The factory can be scaled up to match increased supply without trouble but outright copy-pasting the entire facility would be pushing it.
 
BoneyM said:
The factory has already transferred from the Spymaster of Stirland to Magister Weber, transferring it once more to the EIC is fine. The factory can be scaled up to match increased supply without trouble but outright copy-pasting the entire facility would be pushing it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Interesting, thank you. That does put a damper on the potential gain from this scheme.
SurpriseMe said:
My biggest issue with the niter plan, besides the many other problems that have been pointed out, is how annoying the guns lobby has been.

Guns in this quest have consistently had a advocates who propose a limited "common sense" action involving them. "Just get one more handgun", "just get dwarf help for this bit here", and so on. None of these are necessarily bad by themselves, but in total they result in a larger overall focus on improving guns.

Having such a repeated focus on something that I am not interested in (as it feels like a stealth uplift) isn't something I want to see, especially when every time we are assured that this will be the last time it comes up... until another gun related shiny appears.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I am deeply sympathetic to this concern, in that I strongly want narrative focus on "Mathilde's life in K8P and the agendas at work there" rather than a stealth Empire civilization quest. People do seem to value our connection to the Stirland squad a lot though (our social vote was very nearly 3/4 Stirlanders!) and guns are really important to their military and therefore the EIC at the moment, so I do see the argument from the "help out our friends" angle, which is what swayed me. Still don't want narrative focus on uplift efforts, but I do want Roswita and Anton to have nice things.
 
BoneyM said:
The factory has already transferred from the Spymaster of Stirland to Magister Weber, transferring it once more to the EIC is fine. The factory can be scaled up to match increased supply without trouble but outright copy-pasting the entire facility would be pushing it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This is an interesting way of enforcing IP. "You can do what you want, but if you push too far you are going to get a hammer to the face." In theory it encourages people to stay well away from the proverbial "line" and try to stick to the spirit of the agreement... Though it does lead to more wars :p
 
On the topic of dwarf favour, we might be able to get more by hunting the Stirland vampires. We might also be able to get some through some kind of means involving money, like hiring bounty hunters to hunt down those with Grudges on their heads.
 
We can pretty much always get more dwarf favor, through acts of daring and do. The day that there aren't any opportunities for us to reap the stuff is the day we ascend as a goddess of grudge-resolving or something.
 
Apparently the dwarves have the ability to make mechs, but they only use them as toys.

WFRP Companion, page 18
Furnival's Mighty Dwarfen Warrior
This mechanical man-shaped construction stands around eight feet tall. Its Dwarfen pilot, Furnival, sits inside the "chest" and walks it around the fair offering piggyback rides. The ride is quite exciting, as you never know if the machine will fall over.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top