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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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guyfromtheplace1 said:
Building or buying an enchantment to help Kragg get a better look at the runes on Bok, if we're lucky maybe he'll figure out how to increase the total number of runes you can put on an object.
Though maybe we could present this to Belegar as a formal job option?
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If we get the option to present Belegar with potential projects, I strongly endorse including Bok-assistance. If not, I think the best "wildcard" action we can take until Kragg asks for our help is to boost our Enchanting skill; we could try to learn how to cast the MAPP, but we can use our own MAP as a substitute, I assume.

Currently I'm personally leaning towards a slate of Dictate/AV research/Powerstone class/poke at Ranald's Coin; assuming, of course, nothing exciting gets thrown into the mix as a complication. Diplomacy class and gaining control of our shadow are my other contenders for the last slot.
 
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guyfromtheplace1 said:
I think we're not being asked to present projects until the queekish translation is done, because he assumes we're busy with that.
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Yeah, sorry, I was unclear. I meant for turn-after-next, since next turn (T27) we're writing the Khazalid dictionary and half of the Reikspiel one. Then we drop that in his lap and go "OK, the secrets of your ancient enemy are laid bare to you. What've you got next for me, boss?" for T28; my personal guess is that he's going to assign us to Waystones directly, but if we get the chance to float proposals, I endorse including Bok as one of them.
 
picklepikkl said:
Yeah, sorry, I was unclear. I meant for turn-after-next, since next turn (T27) we're writing the Khazalid dictionary and half of the Reikspiel one. Then we drop that in his lap and go "OK, the secrets of your ancient enemy are laid bare to you. What've you got next for me, boss?" for T28; my personal guess is that he's going to assign us to Waystones directly, but if we get the chance to float proposals, I endorse including Bok as one of them.
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I have a feeling we might get asked to wait on the waystones until the KaK dwarves have gone. Belegar's pissed and suspicious about everything even vaguely related to Thorgrim right now, after all, so I could see him asking us to do some sort of intermediate/short term project to fill in the time.
 
NSMS said:
I have a feeling we might get asked to wait on the waystones until the KaK dwarves have gone. Belegar's pissed and suspicious about everything even vaguely related to Thorgrim right now, after all, so I could see him asking us to do some sort of intermediate/short term project to fill in the time.
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For potential project ideas, there's Bok, coordinating with the rangers on finding those pirates Belegar didn't catch, maybe looking at other Skaven loot, or hunting down a Chaos Dwarf to interrogate if Kragg's efforts to determine if that Rune is corrupted or not don't bear fruit, maybe setting up spy networks in places?
 
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guyfromtheplace1 said:
For potential project ideas, there's Bok, coordinating with the rangers on finding those pirates Belegar didn't catch, maybe looking at other Skaven loot, or hunting down a Chaos Dwarf to interrogate if Kragg's efforts to determine if that Rune is corrupted or not don't bear fruit, maybe setting up spy networks in places?
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We're the Loremaster, not the Spymaster. The only options you listed that might actually qualify are Bok and maybe Skaven loot.

(And stop worrying about that Rune, Kragg's got other things he's working on now. Like Bok.)
 
Maybe we'll get asked to build some more defense towers on the other mountains?
 
We had battle magic towers as an option. That's what I'm going to want to suggest. A sniping tool to deal with single units who want to be sneaky about things.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
There is that, yeah. Chances are there is some compatibility with that and making a Power Stone of the Vitae...or, you know, anything involving the Vitae because aggregation of what the Winds were before they were Winds.
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So, humans can't channel high magic, because the mental state required is too complex and multifaceted.
But that just means we can't gather the energy for high magic, if we can find a way to sublimate the aetheric vitae into an energy format, then shape it with tongs, we might be able to technically perform high magic.
And if we could find a way to get more sources of Aetheric Vitae, maybe other wizards could too.
 
guyfromtheplace1 said:
So, humans can't channel high magic, because the mental state required is too complex and multifaceted.
But that just means we can't gather the energy for high magic, if we can find a way to sublimate the aetheric vitae into an energy format, then shape it with tongs, we might be able to technically perform high magic.
And if we could find a way to get more sources of Aetheric Vitae, maybe other wizards could too.
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Ok, strange thought but... maybe humans need to get high to channel high magic?
 
guyfromtheplace1 said:
So, humans can't channel high magic, because the mental state required is too complex and multifaceted.
But that just means we can't gather the energy for high magic, if we can find a way to sublimate the aetheric vitae into an energy format, then shape it with tongs, we might be able to technically perform high magic.
And if we could find a way to get more sources of Aetheric Vitae, maybe other wizards could too.
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That always sounded kinda bullshit to me.

Elves are not cthulhu, they're mindset is not some incomprehensible alien god.

It's just stupid nonsense to make elves "oh so superior" again by mindlessly ripping off tolkien.
 
ninjafish said:
That always sounded kinda bullshit to me.
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It's more like 'humans can do it, but the training takes about a human lifetime or two, and also if you mess up even once you're locked into a single wind, unlike Elves, who don't mess up like that'.

But frankly, why would you want to, when you can come up with an imaginary friend named Elicerious the Ultimate in the same amount of time, who can probably let you do whatever you were thinking of anyways, plus be there for your birthday party? Qhaysh can't be there for your birthday party.
 
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ninjafish said:
That always sounded kinda bullshit to me.

Elves are not cthulhu, they're mindset is not some incomprehensible alien god.

It's just stupid nonsense to make elves "oh so superior" again by mindlessly ripping off tolkien.
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Maybe.

To examine this more, presumably humans could do it if they could manage mastering each wind and associated mindset for casting up to the Magister level without aquiring any arcane marks.
But elves only do that by leveraging their mutation resistance and long lifespan.
The next problem is in both knowing how to put all eight together into a functioning spell, and in managing all eight at once.
Humans can't effectively focus on eight things at once, I'm not sure that even Elves, a casting specialized race, can, I think they cheat by getting used to single artifacts of symbolic reasoning(words) representing multiple emotional associations from a young age, then do part of the process(creating high magic energy) by rote.
 
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Well, again, there's some strong hints that Cathay is able to use Qhaysh in some form.

The Colleges don't do it because Qhaysh battlemagic is less than 8 times more powerful than mono-wind battlemagic, while being more than 8 times more difficult to teach. Teclis thus decided that mono-wind teachings were a better use of time, and I find it hard to disagree with that premise given what we know about magic and the situation at the time.
 
Redshirt Army said:
The Colleges don't do it because Qhaysh battlemagic is less than 8 times more powerful than mono-wind battlemagic, while being more than 8 times more difficult to teach.
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To back this up, elf battlemages are cool, and college battlemages are cool. And Qhaysh and True Dhar are pretty cool. But if you stuck an elf battlemage and a human battlemage on the same field, it's not impossible that the human would win, through brute force and maybe some cunning, if not finesse, the same way Mathilde could beat a centuries old vampire with a neat trick and a good high-stakes roll. And when you consider that it took the human maybe a decade or two to get there, which Elves blink away, and it took the elf centuries to get where they were, humans have a pretty silly advantage.

If elven battlemages were to die, it would be a tragedy spoken of for centuries. The humans could replenish their losses in a generation or so. And barring 'The Greats', like Teclis and co., they're about as useful against the forces of evil.
 
It's also important to realize how fucking crazy Teclis's plan must have seemed, in context. He decided to teach humans battlemagic, the kind of magic that tears battlefields apart and leaves scars on reality that can last centuries. And in order to churn out battlemages within the human's pathetic lifespans, he basically ripped all of the safeties that take decades of practice to learn out of the curriculum and relied on sheer luck that more of the newly created mages would explode towards the enemy instead of towards allies.

The appropriate analogy is probably "as the zombie horde continues to break the barricades and encroach on your safehouse, you give the toddler in the back a loaded pistol and tell him to take pot-shots through the window".
 
chocolote12 said:
To back this up, elf battlemages are cool, and college battlemages are cool. And Qhaysh and True Dhar are pretty cool. But if you stuck an elf battlemage and a human battlemage on the same field, it's not impossible that the human would win, through brute force and maybe some cunning, if not finesse, the same way Mathilde could beat a centuries old vampire with a neat trick and a good high-stakes roll. And when you consider that it took the human maybe a decade or two to get there, which Elves blink away, and it took the elf centuries to get where they were, humans have a pretty silly advantage.

If elven battlemages were to die, it would be a tragedy spoken of for centuries. The humans could replenish their losses in a generation or so. And barring 'The Greats', like Teclis and co., they're about as useful against the forces of evil.
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That makes total sense from an empire perspective. Lesso from an "I want my protagonist to become STRONK" perspective. :V
 
chocolote12 said:
And when you consider that it took the human maybe a decade or two to get there, which Elves blink away, and it took the elf centuries to get where they were, humans have a pretty silly advantage.

If elven battlemages were to die, it would be a tragedy spoken of for centuries. The humans could replenish their losses in a generation or so. And barring 'The Greats', like Teclis and co., they're about as useful against the forces of evil.
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I disagree. Human mages are definitely trained faster than elven ones, but if Elven Battlemages were so rare as you assume, they'd never be fielded, except in the utmost need. Certainly Ulthuan wouldn't be ok with three of them just leaving while there are still active contingents of Druchii around. Yet that happens. It would make a lot more sense to me if simply graduating as a an Elven mage (that is, to become the equivalent of a Magister) automatically qualifies you as a battlemage for the purposes of the Asur.

I mean, even given Teclis' prodigal nature, he still completed several courses of study, including magic, in the White Tower within about 130 years. I'd guess anywhere between 150 and 200 is about standard for an Asur mage, assuming they didn't go onto to further study as an Archmage, or more courses as a Loremaster.
 
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