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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Asheram said:
Ayup. It's been spoken about rather vehemently on occasion. Apparently what she wanted to do was to retire but found every single of her sons lacking.
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Weren't they pretty grasping and woth little loyalty tied to either a stable EIC or Mathilde/Roswita?

So they'd have pretty much broken EIC for quick cash or forced Mathilde to go Grey Magister on their asses?

Akasha said:
When the time comes, we'll have to check up on the girl every now and then.
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The best guardian angel to have is a wizard assassin dwarf friend merchant zweihanter maiden!
 
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picklepikkl said:
...Roswita is a nerd.
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Like father, like daughter, I suppose.

Asheram said:
Ayup. It's been spoken about rather vehemently on occasion. Apparently what she wanted to do was to retire but found every single of her sons lacking.
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Well, now she's got a Mini-Me to groom into an economic monster.

Akasha said:
When the time comes, we'll have to check up on the girl every now and then. Considering how greedy and reckless Wilhemina's sons are, at least one of them will probably try to kill the kid. Assuming, of course, that her upbringing isn't botched and she doesn't become just as bad.
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*sighs mournfully in The Mom Friend*
 
Akasha said:
When the time comes, we'll have to check up on the girl every now and then. Considering how greedy and reckless Wilhemina's sons are, at least one of them will probably try to kill the kid. Assuming, of course, that her upbringing isn't botched and she doesn't become just as bad.
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It's not only that. It depends on the historic law system Boney uses, but most of the real life inheritance laws would make it nigh impossible for her granddaughter to be the heir and her sons not, especially the girl's father.

This counts double for societies like that of the Enpire.

The one exception I know of would be contemporary american legal system.

To be honest, Wilhelmina's safest bet (and what she likely intended before) was to gift her part of the ownership over EIC to Anton and Mathilde while alive and let her remaining property be inherited normally.
Just, replace Anton/Mathilde with her grand-daughter.
 
NavySeel said:
So... That would make her Father our brother? o_O

Not sure I want to go down that line.
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That she's our honorary niece. And I'm not shipping a romantic relationship.
Horium said:
It's not only that. It depends on the historic law system Boney uses, but most of the real life inheritance laws would make it nigh impossible for her granddaughter to be the heir and her sons not, especially the girl's father.

This counts double for societies like that of the Empire.

The one exception I know of would be contemporary american legal system.

To be honest, Wilhelmina's safest bet (and what she likely intended before) was to gift her part of the ownership over EIC to Anton and Mathilde while alive and let her remaining property be inherited normally.
Just, replace Anton/Mathilde with her grand-daughter.
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Well, while some parts of the Empire are quite middle-ages feudal, the major cities are more like 16'th century. Since the EIC is a trade organization and not a feudal hold, she shouldn't have any problems with signing over her shares in the organization to her granddaughter. And to be completely honest, I wouldn't be surprised if she's got a clause in her will for it already.
 
Of course, just because Wilhelmina dictates what she wants in her will doesn't mean that it'll go unopposed. Her sons could argue she lost her mind, that the will is a fake, that as her heirs the shares should clearly go to them and not some jumped-up distant relation, that her granddaughter was manipulating her...

Really, the only limits are their stubbornness, the amount of money they're willing to pour into lawyers and bribes, and how much Mathilde will let them get away with.
 
NSMS said:
Of course, just because Wilhelmina dictates what she wants in her will doesn't mean that it'll go unopposed. Her sons could argue she lost her mind, that the will is a fake, that as her heirs the shares should clearly go to them and not some jumped-up distant relation, that her granddaughter was manipulating her...

Really, the only limits are their stubbornness, the amount of money they're willing to pour into lawyers and bribes, and how much Mathilde will let them get away with.
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I wish them all the luck going against a will backed by a Lord Magister of the GRey Order who is besties with the empress. :V
 
Asheram said:
After the assassination of Alkharad (which we performed along with the destruction of the Necromancers College) and we turned over the ledges of who traded with Alkharad, Roswita has realized that War is just Economics.
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I believe part of the point of this segment is that she already knew it, was acting on it, and Mathilde just didn't realize because Roswita wasn't exactly going to tell her or Wilhemina secrets. She didn't take the exciseman as her steward to drum up cash, even though it did that a bit, she did it to hurt the vampires.
 
mc2rpg said:
I believe part of the point of this segment is that she already knew it, was acting on it, and Mathilde just didn't realize because Roswita wasn't exactly going to tell her or Wilhemina secrets. She didn't take the exciseman as her steward to drum up cash, even though it did that a bit, she did it to hurt the vampires.
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That. She didn't take the exciseman as her steward for the sake of an immediate source of money to pursue her war against the vampires. Or, rather, she did, but she also did it as a way of using the economy to wage war against the vampires as well. With the lack of information on her reasoning and the inbuilt dislike of her the questers had when she fired us, we'd been looking at a sliver of everything she's done and calling it all dumb. We keep learning, though, bit by bit that she really is pretty clever, and though she's had to do a lot of learning on the job, she was probably pretty good at the job from the get-go. I like Eight Peaks, our story there, and everything that's come of it, but it feels like a missed opportunity to me that we couldn't be in Stirland helping her do all this.
 
Asheram said:
That she's our honorary niece. And I'm not shipping a romantic relationship.

Well, while some parts of the Empire are quite middle-ages feudal, the major cities are more like 16'th century. Since the EIC is a trade organization and not a feudal hold, she shouldn't have any problems with signing over her shares in the organization to her granddaughter. And to be completely honest, I wouldn't be surprised if she's got a clause in her will for it already.
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16th century law isn't much different from middle ages, nor would it be different until early nineteen century approximately.

And I wouldn't count on there being different rules for inheritance between ownership of a company and other properties in this particular case.

Will is not quite as free-operating a people seem to think, especially in european continental law, ancient or contemporary.

That's why I wrote that Wilhelmina is better served with transfers of property while living than otherwise.

What Mathilde can do is to ensure there is no illegal silly boogeries, anything more the Grey College would likely frown upon.

As anybody who has ever had contact with law can attest, you have perfectly legal silly boogeries you can cause.

ps. This is all hypothetical, and heavily depends on the law system Boney chooses. It's hopefully far off in the future anyhow.
 
Kinruush said:
I like Eight Peaks, our story there, and everything that's come of it, but it feels like a missed opportunity to me that we couldn't be in Stirland helping her do all this.
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I understand what you mean, but at the same time, I'm glad it was able to happen without us. Stuff going on in corners where our attention isn't currently focused reinforces the feeling of a living world, and the fact that people are executing competent plans without us, especially ones we misjudged at first before we knew all the details, helps to undercut Protagonist Syndrome. Other people besides Mathilde being allowed to be awesome, even without her around, is great for helping me care about the setting.
 
Kinruush said:
That. She didn't take the exciseman as her steward for the sake of an immediate source of money to pursue her war against the vampires. Or, rather, she did, but she also did it as a way of using the economy to wage war against the vampires as well. With the lack of information on her reasoning and the inbuilt dislike of her the questers had when she fired us, we'd been looking at a sliver of everything she's done and calling it all dumb. We keep learning, though, bit by bit that she really is pretty clever, and though she's had to do a lot of learning on the job, she was probably pretty good at the job from the get-go. I like Eight Peaks, our story there, and everything that's come of it, but it feels like a missed opportunity to me that we couldn't be in Stirland helping her do all this.
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She is hyper focused on the vampires though.

My assumption way back then after she revealed her hatred of vampires was that she appointed the exciseman to punish the smugglers and those who traded with vampires; but I heavily underestimated how much thought she put into it, and didn't think she had an actual strategy.

EDIT: I thought she was all aboard the fuck vampires train, but I underestimated her intelligence and thought she didn't have a real strategy.
 
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picklepikkl said:
I understand what you mean, but at the same time, I'm glad it was able to happen without us. Stuff going on in corners where our attention isn't currently focused reinforces the feeling of a living world, and the fact that people are executing competent plans without us, especially ones we misjudged at first before we knew all the details, helps to undercut Protagonist Syndrome. Other people besides Mathilde being allowed to be awesome, even without her around, is great for helping me care about the setting.
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Sure, and, realistically, I like the Eight Peaks stuff enough that I wouldn't trade it even if I could. It's just a pang of longing I had and wanted to share. Like when I run into a friend I haven't seen in a while and hear about what they've been up to, I get that feeling, "I wish I could have been with them for that." That sense that there's just too much to life for any one person to experience.
 
Horium said:
16th century law isn't much different from middle ages, nor would it be different until early nineteen century approximately.

And I wouldn't count on there being different rules for inheritance between ownership of a company and other properties in this particular case.

Will is not quite as free-operating a people seem to think, especially in european continental law, ancient or contemporary.

That's why I wrote that Wilhelmina is better served with transfers of property while living than otherwise.

What Mathilde can do is to ensure there is no illegal silly boogeries, anything more the Grey College would likely frown upon.

As anybody who has ever had contact with law can attest, you have perfectly legal silly boogeries you can cause.

ps. This is all hypothetical, and heavily depends on the law system Boney chooses. It's hopefully far off in the future anyhow.
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I think you're overestimating the inflexibility of the law in medieval times. Certainly I believe that it would be possible to set it up so that property went to a specific person by the 1300s, at least in England, although it would have required a good lawyer and the hope no one with actual power (a Lord, or royal of some description) overturned it, but it should be possible.

Of course the Empire is a very different place to medieval Europe anyway, and Wilhelmina has the benefit of living under a female Elector Countess, who might be more inclined to agree with her wishes, rather than dismiss them for the fact that it would give a woman access to a lot of money and power.
 
Eh, her case is rock solid, transfer the shares when the kid hits her majority, retire to an advisory role. They could object, but its vastly harder to work around Wilhelmina still being alive than in a will.

I mean, its Wilhelmina, if the law is blocking what she needs to happen then she's going to find some way to twist it to work.
Heck, I suspected her original backup plan was to deed her shares to Stirland in her will as a fuck you. They aren't winning an inheritance dispute with their sovereign ruler.
 
Fudge... A question @BoneyM. I know we haven't had an eye on the Aver Reach canal at all, but if we were to eyeball it, how high above sea level is the Black Water lake in comparison to the Aver Reach? I'm asking specifically because I'm suddenly realizing that the Dawi might (will?) have to build some locks up there in Goblin and Ork territory, which can threaten to empty the entire Black Water into Stirland if they're clever about it.
I know it's unlikely that Black Water is much higher than sea level because that (skull) river is already traversed by boats, but I just want to make sure here.
 
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Thinking about it, it's possible that, if Mathilde had stayed in Stirland, we'd be talking about taking a Dwarfcation in Eight Peaks instead of an Elfcation in Nagarythe. That is, of course, assuming that Belegar didn't end up dying thanks to a crit failed background roll or something.
 
NavySeel said:
So... That would make her Father our brother? o_O

Not sure I want to go down that line.
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Eh, could just be because we were close friends/allies with Abel. I have I think two uncles, an aunt, and a set of grandparents who are all in quotations because they were goods friends with my parents rather than being blood related.

Arguably, though, Wilhelmina would be more fit for such a role rather than Mathilde; she's worked and fought alongside Abel since basically the start of his career IIRC, and she stuck around Stirland to actually interact with Roswita and give her highly profitable advice.

Valmond said:
If she's feeling especially nasty, she might just install the girl as a "temporary" director of EIC and then drag the legal fight on until everyone else is either dead of old age or financially crippled. :V
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She could also go full Making Money, buy a dog, designate the dog as her successor and shareholder in the EIC, and then appoint Eileen as the dog's guardian. :V
 
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picklepikkl said:
...Roswita is a nerd.

I think I ship it now.
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I'll admit, that section did make me briefly consider my opinion of a Math/Ros ship. My model of Mathilde is that she has a bit of a thing for the scholarly type. While not the only factor, some chammon in the mind is something that can attract her interest. This is part of why I favor Math/Johann.

Asheram said:
Eh... Honorary niece, I reckon. I really want Auntie Tilde to be a thing, that embarrassing aunt who knows all the secrets and tease folk mercilessly.
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However, I find that I still prefer Math as Roswita's mildly irritating cat-godmother.
 
veekie said:
Eh, her case is rock solid, transfer the shares when the kid hits her majority, retire to an advisory role. They could object, but its vastly harder to work around Wilhelmina still being alive than in a will.

I mean, its Wilhelmina, if the law is blocking what she needs to happen then she's going to find some way to twist it to work.
Heck, I suspected her original backup plan was to deed her shares to Stirland in her will as a fuck you. They aren't winning an inheritance dispute with their sovereign ruler.
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The above is the best option, absolutely.

As a minor nitpick, deeding her shares to Stirland could create a serious political crisis, as it sets a precedent that's really frightening to burghers and even nobles.
 
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