Yeah. Keeping secrets gets even trickier in a world where death isn't absolute and Tzeentch exists.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Yeah. Keeping secrets gets even trickier in a world where death isn't absolute and Tzeentch exists.
- Location
- Singapore
Thanks for the clarification.
So technically, if we want an Information Network handler (just like Julia), we'd have to adopt a newly minted Perpetual and mold this Perpetual into that role? Are the costs for hiring a newly minted Perpetual to be molded different from an experienced Perpetual, and this is something closer to adopting an actual Apprentice, but one not on the Magister track, rather than a temporary hireling? After all, molding seems to imply a very different longer-term relationship from the short-term specialist brought in on a six months contract, so I wonder whether College Influence cost/upkeep works differently here.
Additionally, are there any Perpetual Apprentices that specialize in handling piracy on trade routes? It sounds like a security specialist might come in very handy if we want to equip the EIC with a paramilitary defense force against piracy, but want to ensure that said power is not misused. So a Security issue Perpetual sounds like one possible way to help allay thread fears here if such a Perpetual exist.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
We already have the books; the thing Max is doing, if I understand @LightLan correctly, is looking for words we don't already know in those books, as opposed to trying to translate them in their entirety, with the hopes of expanding our vocabulary in a useful way.
I'm uncertain about the value of this, but I didn't catch that during the moratorium period, and now it's a bit late, so eh.
Correct. Anyone specialized in that is already doing it.
It's the same at first. It could change based on how your relationship with them develops, they might become willing to transfer onto Belegar's payroll or want to instead be 'paid' by being listed as a collaborator on your papers.
No, handling piracy is a military matter, rather than a Wizardly one.
I assumed that looking through the books for new words would also pull double duty in translating them, and if we're putting off the dictionaries for a few turns then translating some stuff we haven't looked at yet isn't completely pointless.
- Location
- Singapore
I am all for getting a Perpetual to mold as a manager for our EIC Spying division, but I don't know what the thread interest is, given that the predictable objections are things like AP and Favor cost, and so on and so forth. But from a narrative perspective, a newly minted Perpetual being hired to manage the EIC Spying division sounds like something that would be very fun to read about, especially as our information network grows.
There is a reason why hiring Julie is part of the EIC options, but perhaps hiring a young Perpetual to groom into our information network manager/EIC watcher might be even better, given that said Perpetual loyalties are less likely to be to his or her family, but to the Grey College, considering our worries over the EIC. Thinking of it, hiring a young Perpetual to groom to keep an eye over the EIC, while working with us to expand the EIC info-networks sounds like a reasonable precaution Mathilde could take, to manage a line of watchers over the EIC.
Yeah, I think the narrative case makes sense in-universe - the costs and time investments are the issues.
Understandable. This seems like a very high demand specialty. Does it take an additional half action to manage a Perpetual we put to work on our info-network, or is it folded into the half AP we spent on the EIC instead, since it seems that narratively speaking, such a character would appear during the EIC action sequences and be folded into it.
Last edited:
Wouldn't it be better to have him actually just help with the translations or dictate to him? We don't have a complete dictionary for him to work with.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's never too late. And there is little to no value I'd say, we explicitly know we have everything bar the magical vocabulary.
So hmm, regarding the coin situation we have either:
-Someone trusted and skilled enough in academics does the inventory with full access to the records and research to preserve a representative archive in posterity(and if say, a Tomb King DOES somehow in a twist of Ranald's lulz show up wanting to withdraw his funds we'd have records of how much they are owed and produce the equivalent with the white lie that the Skaven and greenskins kind of messed up most of the collection so the original metal isn't available).
-We mix the coins up and sell it on through the EIC trade networks as "Adventurer loot - antique coin" dispersed in small collections, which means the provenance of the coin is mixed up but it IS still genuine Old Coins, provably so, and thus still worth a lot. It'd be functionally untracable because theres loads of merchants and adventurers selling their haul through the EIC, they'd likely assume its like Wilhelmina's Stirland Silver Caper - taking coin on face value on purchases from clueless adventurers, and flipping it at the greater true value.
--This also somewhat insulates the funds from magical tracing if people try to divine where the shitloads of dosh come from, but thats a tertiary concern, if someone is using Tale of Metal to dig up dirt on you, you have entirely different problems.
That someone would necessarily be Mathilde, because Belegar is set on keeping the matter as private as possible.
The majority will still be melted down, because there's only so many collectors and museums in the Old World. While this option would increase the amount of money Belegar ends up with, it's largely for those who want to preserve as many of the coins as possible, instead of a single cross section of them in the 'historical archive' option.
Does Tzeentch even in warhammer fantasy? I thought he was a 40k only dude. Who even worships him in WHF? Shouldn't he fade into obscurity if no one worships him?
- Location
- Aotearoa
One thing I think is missing from the arguments to 'relax and not worry about the Vow of Poverty' is that while yes, it's mostly about not abusing your powers to get rich (and a little about 'it's not a crime until we want something easy to hang you for')-
One of the symptoms of abusing your powers to accumulate wealth is becoming wealthy.
If a Grey Wizard acquires a lot of money, it is in fact the job of the Grey Wizard Ninja Auditors in the Bursars office to examine the source of that wealth, and make sure it's legitimate.
If said talented titled Grey Wizard warrior keeps on accumulating ever more wealth, indeed has stakes in enterprises that deposit hauls of such wealth on the regular, then they should probably expect continued scrutiny.
Until the current Bursar retires and they get invited to take over, or something.
One of the symptoms of abusing your powers to accumulate wealth is becoming wealthy.
If a Grey Wizard acquires a lot of money, it is in fact the job of the Grey Wizard Ninja Auditors in the Bursars office to examine the source of that wealth, and make sure it's legitimate.
If said talented titled Grey Wizard warrior keeps on accumulating ever more wealth, indeed has stakes in enterprises that deposit hauls of such wealth on the regular, then they should probably expect continued scrutiny.
Until the current Bursar retires and they get invited to take over, or something.
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
The romance novels are actually the closest we have ever come to violation of the vow of poverty. Spending money for our own benefit and not for the common good. Also not linked to any institution.
The same four Chaos Gods exist in both settings, but in Fantasy they're beings that predate the setting and seem to exist largely independent of it, whereas in 40k they arise from the galaxy and are bound to it. A lot of the time people worship the Chaos Gods because they'll give you nifty powers if you do, which makes them self-sustaining.
Last edited:
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
The big assumption I'm making is that actually finding information in the noise as the EIC spying gets set up and also managing the spying elements, is that doing it well will cost more AP than our current half. If that is the case (and it feels reasonable to me), then it is AP efficent to get a couple of new Perpetuals to help - of course the big thing that keeps jumping out at me is... do we even need a wizard for this at all? Grey wizards have (a tendancy towards) the mindset for spywork, be it as agents or handlers/analysists, but their magic lends itself to agent work far more heavily. That said, a non-wizard vetted by the grey colleges would be appealing to me, because it would make the college happier and be a primary filter for crappy people - we could possibly spend some favour to get them to find some people for us to interview and see who we want to take on.
(In before we get a celestial or light Perpetual volunteering because of a) "inter college coperation" b) the person in question genuinely has a knack for what we need done
)
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
- Location
- Finland
I'm all in for keepng as much of the coins, and all of the records, just for the principle of it.
Like i would not go out of our way to find who the money belongs to, any descent will be too mixed by now.
But just in case, if anyone can come and provide a receipt, we will honor it.
In tomb kings case receipt is not necessary (we will check their name against the records though).
Like i would not go out of our way to find who the money belongs to, any descent will be too mixed by now.
But just in case, if anyone can come and provide a receipt, we will honor it.
In tomb kings case receipt is not necessary (we will check their name against the records though).
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
I am enthuastically against this. Her loyaties are... divided
.But seriously. No. Even if she was not exploring the intrigues of nepotism, she is (I presume) nominally helping Stirland.
@BoneyM could we put a request to the grey college for them to find two or three non magic recriutis we can interview that they feel are trustworthy for a few favour, or would we be better off trying to find someone from within the EIC (assuming we can do that, of course)?
- Location
- Singapore
On the other hand, I could also point out that a Grey Wizard handler, as opposed to a non-Wizard handler ensures that we are keeping our involvement in the EIC within and in service to the Grey Order, by bringing in a member into our involvement who will be the point of contact to pick up the pieces should anything happen to us. In other words, keep it in-house, rather than out-house. So this is an issue of political loyalty.
It probably also depends on how our information network further develops and what it produces as we grow it, but a Grey Perpetual might open the doors to making interventions on our behalf where an agent would be useful.
Anyway, I suspect that the AP cost depends on how interventionistic Mathilde is with his/her grooming. If there is a 0.5 additional AP cost, I'd expect the options to warn of it. @BoneyM Am I right in presuming that AP cost depends on how heavily we are involved with grooming our agent directly, and any additional AP Cost only arises if we do more than just passively applying said Perpetual to the EIC action?
My own take is that if the AP cost is Mandatory rather than voluntary, it's a deal-breaker and the option would never be taken, but AP is needed if Mathilde really wants to personally grow the agent through more than just field experience. The reason is the writing tax- Mathilde not being heavily involved means the Perpetual is bled into the background of EIC actions, Mathilde really going out of her way to groom a Perpetual handler means much more has to be written.
Last edited:
Added:
[ ] Look outside the Colleges for a candidate to start grooming as a handler for intelligence matters of the EIC.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
My contention is that the dearth of undead wizards is a function of necromancers having trouble raising wizards, rather than the magic preventing them from being able to cast magic afterwards.
I disagree. Unless death suddenly saps whatever it is that makes a wizard able to use magic, then it shouldn't require any more power than raising any other random corpse. And sure, you'd need to make them more willful, but necromancy seems to come with some form of automatic control over the undead raised. And certainly has spells to bind even powerful wizards to an individual. High risk high reward.
Necromancy is entirely shyish based. There is no chamon necromancy. Any similar lore of magic created by using chamon to manipulate dhar would likely be very different in form and effect to necromancy.
This is just me being petty, but people are aware that Mallus isn't the name of the planet in WHF, right? It's the name GW gave to the core of the planet after it got blown up during End Times.
The AP cost is in taking the action in the first place. After that the training would be alongside and part of whatever else you do with the EIC at no additional cost, and at some point they'll have picked up enough to start helping.