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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[] YAR: Fortify and garrison all entrances to the mountain.

This seems very premature, with an ongoing three way battle and an angry Emperor dragon.

Per Boney, the time to fortify against the Red Fang Waaagh is after the Skaven are dealt with.
...so who is this fortifying against?
 
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Alectai said:
Again and I repeat

"I sincerely doubt the Skaven in Yar will continue fighting among themselves in the face of an Emperor Dragon, they're both known for their discipline--and Mors at least still thinks their core territories are safe"

I would bet money they try for a breakout in the face of this, and are likely to succeed if we don't have a wall of dug in dawi with crossbows pointed to stop them. And once they find out what we did, there's going to be a lot of spite flying around.



Greenskins can control Trolls because they're distantly related kin, and because Goblins have pretty good beast-control abilities. Nobody else has been known to tame a Troll, and a troll is always going to look for more food.

The cordon plan doesn't push into Yar very far, it just locks down the main exits and prevents the Skaven from escaping.
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I'd rather they broke and ran away than let our forces be smashed by a rampaging dragon busting in and out of our cordon. Especially since Mors would blame Eshin for the blatantly Eshin-like strategies and attacks, and we haven't done a thing to Eshin, so they would be no more knowledgeable or spiteful about us than they already had been. And once the dragon is done and leaves, we should just charge in and purge all remaining life, as we should do with the other Karags. We might not have the forces to fully garrison all the Peaks, but we certainly can ensure our enemies won't have places to respawn in.

[X] YAR: Make no move until you've scouted the Karag Yar battle.
-[X] Personally.

[X] RHYN: Assault the Trolls now.

[X] ZILFIN: Assault the mountain to slay any surviving Skaven.
 
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Alliterate said:
[] YAR: Fortify and garrison all entrances to the mountain.

This seems very premature, with an ongoing three way battle and an angry Emperor dragon.
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I believe that the point is to do it to ensure than Esshin/Mors do not form temporary anti-dragon alliance and then get out of mountain in force.

Also, part of rationale there seems to be "Dragon is currently in maximum rage mode and might think we are another Esshin if we run around trying to use Ulgu as a disguise".
 
[X] YAR: Make no move until you've scouted the Karag Yar battle.
-[X] Personally.
[X] RHYN: Assault the Trolls now.
[X] ZILFIN: Cordon the mountain with Rangers.

It's late so I'll go with this for now. I'll check any arguments that come up in the morning.

Also not really relevant but happy 3800th! Two hundred more to go.
 
[X] YAR: Make no move until you've scouted the Karag Yar battle.
-[X] Personally.
[X] ZILFIN: Keep all forces clear.
[X] RHYN: Assault the Trolls now.

Don't touch the dragon/passive poison hazards for negligible gain. Skryre's got thoroughly fucked, and of all clans, they rely most of all on the build-up to be any sort of a threat. As long as we do not give them actual months to recover, we can leave them alone just fine.

Braganza's+Undumgi are pretty much ideal force composition for troll slaying, and they are scattered and distracted. This is as close it can get to "No possible negative scenario."

If there was a " stay the fuck away from Yar you dunce" option, I'd vote for it. Accidentally poking the dragon is our one way to ruin all this and make it our own No Good, Super Very Bad day, too. Since there is none, Mathilde is least likely to be spotted by anyone.

...Nor do I really believe that Mors or Esshin are in any condition to stage a breakout. They were dying from exhaustion and hunger, an hour ago.

We basically won. We just need to not fuck up with wild premature movements. Do not overcorrect and overreact.
 
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Assuming we've won just because "Oh they can't possibly survive that" when there's at least one Legendary Lord and possibly two fighting, a whole bunch of lesser heroes and Lords, and both from the super disciplined Skaven Clans who might very well be able to call and enforce a temporary truce in the face of giant dragon seems extremely premature.

I want to guarantee that the Skaven are done, I don't want to throw it away and leave it to chance because we're scared the Dragon will take offense to us murdering the ones it missed while otherwise keeping away.

Beacuse if we call Mission Accomplished and we're wrong? We're potentially risking more deaths than we're risking if the Dragon is willing to pick a fight against a prepared force that can theoretically kill it that are otherwise staying out of its way.
 
Are undumgis even part of the scenario? I was under the impression they were holding Wyr from River trolls. In which case i would expect heavy casualties when fighting trolls.

Alectai said:
I want to guarantee that the Skaven are done, I don't want to throw it away because we're scared the Dragon will take offense to us murdering the ones it missed while otherwise keeping away.
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The Dragon might not be Dawi friendly and is an actual goddamn army killer. They are not going to get their shit together inside of a day.
 
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[X] YAR: Make no move until you've scouted the Karag Yar battle.
-[X] Personally.

[X] RHYN: Assault the Trolls now.

[X] ZILFIN: Assault the mountain to slay any surviving Skaven.
 
pucflek said:
Are undumgis even part of the scenario? I was under the impression they were holding Wyr from River trolls.
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We don't need all six thousand of them for that. Given the confirmation that most of the Karak is clear, my expectation is that Mathilde will take half of them forward to clear Rhyn in conjunction with the Besiegers, since they're our best anti-troll force.
 
ctulhuslp said:
Additional issue of negotiating with Dragon, aside from lacking grudge records, is that it is squatting on what dwarfs consider to be their ancestral home.
I am not sure they'll be happy to cede Upper Zilfin to it, even if they aren't going to use it anyway.
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I wonder if this is a chance to undertake one of the big duties of an advisor... do something necessary but that looks awful and then take all the blame for your ruler.

"Oh course it's terrible, terrible to have negotiated away one of the peaks like that. Damn foolish manling! But what can we do, she had the authority and made the offer of peace in the king's name and now we're stuck with it. Would be completely dishonorable to go back on a word given, even if it was a foolish word."

(secret *wink*)
 
pucflek said:
Are undumgis even part of the scenario? I was under the impression they were holding Wyr from River trolls. In which case i would expect heavy casualties when fighting trolls.


The Dragon might not be Dawi friendly and is an actual goddamn army killer. They are not going to get their shit together inside of a day.
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There is a very large difference in threat between a Dragon that's unable to fly, running up against two top class dispellers and an army of people that can hurt it, and one that has the initative and is attacking extremely disorganized enemies.

Because if it's going to attack us on sight, it'll be coming out of the mountain to do it. If it doesn't care unless provoked, it's just going to zip right past us and go on to doing it's own thing--which if its territorial interests are respected, is liable to be "Reorganize my lair".

The risk of a Mors/Eshin coalition escaping and reorganizing I think is potentially a lot more painful than a straight fight against an Emperor Dragon when we hold all the cards and it doesn't have the best position to attack from. And the Skaven historically are known to drop internal squabbles to unite against an external threat--doubly so when that external threat can actually threaten them.
 
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Alectai said:
There is a very large difference in threat between a Dragon that's unable to fly, running up against two top class dispellers and an army of people that can hurt it, and one that has the initative and is attacking extremely disorganized enemies.
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Should we try and take the dragon? Most of our enemies are too disorganized to attack. It can't fly, we have an organised army and we have Dwarven Teclis and his understudy. We're unlikely to get a better chance any time soon.
 
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Honestly, I've just got... no fucking idea what we do with our Queekish project from here.

Like, I guess we could Deceiver Qrech next turn and be like "we need to wipe out Mors, teach us Queekish!" But to be honest, I don't really see the point. It's not like it's going to be super valuable to us any time soon, given the almost complete eradication of the skaven within K8P.

My thinking is that next turn we just build rapport with Qrech, write the dictionary, and call the project done. We have other things to spend our AP and Coin on.
Quest said:
Should we try and take the dragon? We're unlikely to get a better chance any time soon.
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Attacking the dragon seems like a terrible idea unless we have to, especially since all our siege and air support is outside.
 
Prospalz said:
Don't touch the dragon/passive poison hazards for negligible gain.
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Word of Boney is that the poison hazards aren't as big a factor as you think.
Prospalz said:
We basically won.
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Not until the battle is actually over.

Quest said:
Should we try and take the dragon? We're unlikely to get a better chance any time soon.
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If by "take" you mean "try and talk to because it nullifies 99% of mat's bag of Ulgu tricks? Yes. If you mean "try and kill it" then hell no.
 
...Actually properly attacking the dragon with encounter-appropriate force composition wraps all the way back to a not-absolutely-horrible idea, TBH. If we are asking for horrible trouble, we might as well do it properly.

I still don't like, it, but it beats the alternative.
 
Can Kragg do his Dispel: Yes thing without his Anvil, or does he just need that for when he wants to count as artillery?
 
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ctulhuslp said:
Additional issue of negotiating with Dragon, aside from lacking grudge records, is that it is squatting on what dwarfs consider to be their ancestral home.
I am not sure they'll be happy to cede Upper Zilfin to it, even if they aren't going to use it anyway.
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I'm not so sure, considering Belebro's concerns about spending dwarven lives for purely symbolic reasons. Plus there's the example of the We, where he was happy enough to leave them along so long as they weren't attacking dwarves (before they became a valuable trade partner).

In an unlikely and ideal world we'd see the dragon join our little multi-racial community and become fat and happy via trade. Considering it's ability to sell shed scales and nails, it's massive starting capital, and it's magical advantages, that's not hard for it.

In a less rosy world, ceding the peak surface for a defensive military alliance would be amazingly useful.

Tense mutual ignoring eachother is possible but unstable. Beyond that things start to get bad.

The worst possibility is if the dragon is ALSO cackling to itself about cleansweeping the entire K8P and claiming the entire thing
 
Prospalz said:
...Actually properly attacking the dragon with encounter-appropriate force composition wraps all the way back to a not-absolutely-horrible idea, TBH. If we are asking for horrible trouble, we might as well do it properly.

I still don't like, it, but it beats the alternative.
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I'm not interested in attacking it, just making a cordon to stop the Skaven from uniting and then cutting an escape path through and potentially leading it into our lines while they duck into the Underways and come back a few years later at the head of a horde.

Yes, this is a worst case scenario, but it's not a complete fantasy--they're notoriously good at putting aside even previously deadly arguments to unite against an outside foe, and Mors and Eshin are the two more disciplined clans--and thus are more likely to achieve such a thing than many.

If that happens and we're not there to intercept them, that's a big problem, because we'd have a hard time catching them, and a free elite skaven block running around behind our front lines can do enormous damage even if you remove spite from the equation.
 
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Yeah, cordon is still in absolutely horrible idea, no worries. Skaven uniting in context of murdering each other for hours is End Times lolskaven scenario.
 
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