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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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@BoneyM Few questions:

Could we tell Jack about our insight regarding the Watch and give him permission to do a few expansions as he sees fit as long as he doesn't overdo it? I mean he should have much more time focusing on Watch programs exclusively and the Watch budget goes directly to his organization without passing through our hands first anyway.
On the one hand it could be considered gaming the system a bit due to allowing more Watch expansions for fewer actions. On the other hand it gives up control as to what those expansions would be exactly and puts trust into having Jack do the right thing. Essentially, it would be an Of The Leash action for the Watch, but only for one turn.

Can we modify the religion actions for the Watch to be more subtle than, say declaring Verena the patron goddess from the get go?

And just out of curiosity, if we had broken into Van Hal's office during the Haunted Hills campaign, would we have found that same letter? Don't answer if you think it would ruin the magic.
 
Rafin said:
On the one hand it could be considered gaming the system a bit due to allowing more Watch expansions for fewer actions. On the other hand it gives up control as to what those expansions would be exactly and puts trust into having Jack do the right thing. Essentially, it would be an Of The Leash action for the Watch, but only for one turn.
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Him figuring out for himself what direction to go in instead of being told won't give him more hours in the day to do those actions. So, no.

Rafin said:
Can we modify the religion actions for the Watch to be more subtle than, say declaring Verena the patron goddess from the get go?
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If you want to spend more actions to achieve the same result, I guess you could do that.

Rafin said:
And just out of curiosity, if we had broken into Van Hal's office during the Haunted Hills campaign, would we have found that same letter? Don't answer if you think it would ruin the magic.
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It did specifically refer to the possibility that you found it through snooping rather than Abelhelm's death. Which explains why there was a second layer of encryption you could only crack if you'd been given the Liber Mortis.
 
@BoneyM : Soo, as long as Mat is a silent partner in the EIC, the Sigmarism thing won't affect her, because, well, she doesn't know what the EIC is doing.

But if she becomes an official partner, then she will have some idea what the EIC is doing. Oh, and also, people will know she owns part of the EIC, right?


Also, re: steal all the things: You all do remember what our first job was after being hired as a new spymaster, right? One of the major things we did was look into the previous one. Consider this when voting.
 
[X] Plan Powerbase
-[X] Trade Delegation: Convince Wilhelmina to partner your network with the EIC based on the value of market information. Especially likely to work since Wilhelmina will soon be losing her position of power in Stirland's government.
-[X] Grungni, the principal Dwarf Ancestor God, actually has some following among the Stirlandian populace - and he is their Lawgiver to boot. Bring in a few priests to make it happen. (-1 Dwarf Favour)
-[X] As above, but insist on being a part of whatever happens.
-[X] Visit the Amethyst Wizards in Altdorf and ask what the hell they were playing at.
-[X] Buy out half of Markus' shares in the EIC. (does not take an action; increases your debt to Stirland)
-[X] Your debt to Stirland is recorded in a handful of documents in the Archives, and the current Steward is leaving the position. If said documents were to be slightly altered at the right time, nobody would notice in the handover and your debt could evaporate.
-[X] Though the Haunted Hills have always technically belonged to the Elector Count, they've suddenly skyrocketed in value. If you could backdate some purchases from the Elector Count, you could make a killing reselling them, and still retain your own slice of prime grazelands.
-[X] Financial Jargon: Everything with the EIC flew right over your head last time. Try again. Succeeding here will mean that you can take a more active hand in the company, adding it to the organizational actions; failing or not attempting means Mathilde will remain a silent partner.
 
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Alliterate said:
Not decided yet. Some thoughts: I don't care about Gustav. I doubt our Master has any sway in Elector Count deliberations. I like getting the agents on the Watch budget, but the plan should ideally do more to plump the budget. Anton would be an easily controllable EC if that's what we want. I like some of @DarkLight140 thoughts.


Undecided about doubling our debt to Stirland for the EIC shares, because of the whole personal wealth thing we might have to get rid of our current holdings anyway.

I'm still concerned about justifying our financial actions to the Grey College when going for Magister.
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I can cut Gustav out if you have a better suggestion.

I thought it doesn't hurt to ask him when we meet him, what with being a Grey College Magister with fondness and arguably a bit of debt to us for what he put us through. If he says it can't be done then so be it, but asking shouldn't cost an action.

Plumb the budget how? What would you suggest? An additional Watch action to replace talking to Gustav?

Could you reiterate DarkLight's thoughts on the matter? Can't find them right now.

Regarding the shares, they clearly seem to be rising. If we stop being a Spymaster I am all for selling them and donating a large cut of the proceeds to the Grey Order. Or even gifting them to someone we have influence over. Or anything that seems appropriate really. As is, it is part of our intelligence network and ensures our employer (Stirland) doesn't get outvoted on it's own trading company's decisions over something as banal as greed. Or at least that's the excuse.

Which financial actions do you fear most? Our land holdings are because the EC made us a knight, along with the obligations that go with it and the blessing of a Priest of Sigmar (pah). The income is meagre and goes into our job and research for the good of the empire. Our EIC shares aren't an enrichment since they are essentially a gift and all proceeds go to pay off the debt. We need it only to control it and once it turns a profit we will tithe as proper. Our Spymaster income is actually an extension of our discretionary fund, which includes living expenses. But getting rid of our savings before testing for Magister would probably be prudent. Anything I missed or that you think is definitely shaky? I'm a bit iffy on the Spymaster personal pay myself, especially since we asked for a raise.

DragonParadox said:
Does anyone else find it amusing that Mathilde's disdain for Sigmar makes her slightly more pious and thus less likely to fall to Chaos?
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I wouldn't be so sure. People woshipping a Chaos God probably also use piety as the relevant stat.
 
primemountain said:
@BoneyM : Soo, as long as Mat is a silent partner in the EIC, the Sigmarism thing won't affect her, because, well, she doesn't know what the EIC is doing.

But if she becomes an official partner, then she will have some idea what the EIC is doing. Oh, and also, people will know she owns part of the EIC, right?
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Considering Wilhelmina's view on Sigmar, you strongly doubt the EIC is a seething mass of Sigmarism.

And there's no reason that your partial ownership of the EIC needs to be public.
 
Well, consider my heartstrings tugged.

[Trait Gained: Warrior of Fog. +2 martial, bonuses to scouting and hidden gambits while in command, unlocks creation of battlefield spells for revealing or concealing troop movements.]
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Very nice.

[Trait Gained: Disdain for Sigmar. Piety +1, will not allow faith in Sigmar to flourish in the institutions under her control - will do her best to encourage faith in worthier gods, or face a heavy malus while it goes undone.]
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Not terrible. A little inconvenient but it isn't like humans are short of gods. Heck we invite some Lady worshippers, of all the human gods she is by far the most reliable about answering prayers.

[ ] Special Branch: Pull some financial trickery to get the information network classified as part of the Watch, so that their costs are covered by the Stirlandian treasury.
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Tempting… but it ties the two organisations together. If we get kicked out of the spymaster role we may well lose the Watch. If that happens and we linked the two by payroll we might lose both.

[ ] Grungni, the principal Dwarf Ancestor God, actually has some following among the Stirlandian populace - and he is their Lawgiver to boot. Bring in a few priests to make it happen. (-1 Dwarf Favour)
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What better monument to Ranald than stealing a god from another race?

Embezzlement x3
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Really? She suffers horrible trauma, decides to go home to fulfil her duty... and we get options to rob our boss blind?
Shameful display.

We really need to double overwork this turn.

[] Plan Mistress of Shadows
I like this plan. Deals with the current crises rather than training and isn't trying to bankrupt Stirland. Wish it didn't waste an action on Gustav , we have so many better things to be doing than making nice with the political nobody, but such is life.

[X] Plan Mistress of Shadows Without the embezzlement
Better. Still wasting an action on Gustav but a better watch is more useful than personal grazing land.

Approval votes:
[X] Plan Mistress of Shadows
[X] Plan for Abelhelm and Stirland


BoneyM said:
Eight gallons and counting.
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Meh. This is a 1 gallon bottle. We can fit dozens of them into a small room. As we have an entire underground palace I don't see it being a problem for quite some time.
 
What I Would Like To Do- i.e. Secure the Spymistress, not enrich the Grey Wizard
-[] Special Branch: Pull some financial trickery to get the information network classified as part of the Watch, so that their costs are covered by the Stirlandian treasury. Best possible time to do this, if we're going to.
-[] Set up saltpeter production facilities using headhunted experts from Nuln. (-2 Budget Points) (NEW) - Aiming for the timing Boney outlined
-[] Abelhelm left you with a list of notarized names. Pass them on to your Master and let the fireworks fly. (does not take an action) - of course
-- [] And Be There... probably
-[] Spend time with Anton, possibly talking about how good a candidate he would be - local support, known to external powers, and a few powerful friends supporting him, and so forth. Most controllable alternate EC candidate we're going to get.
-[] Attend the Elector's Meet yourself, to take any opportunity that arises to manipulate events in your favour.
--[] Ostensibly as a representative of Stirlands caretaker government, to deliver a report on the destruction of Drakenhof and the Purge With the preceding.
-[] Financial Jargon: Everything with the EIC flew right over your head last time. Try again. Succeeding here will mean that you can take a more active hand in the company, adding it to the organizational actions; failing or not attempting means Mathilde will remain a silent partner. EIC is a major player.
[] Free Time: Wilhelmina. She's a friend. What are her plans now shes retiring? Though I could see either Kasmir or Gustav or the long-forgotten Schultz.

[ ] Buy out half of Markus' shares in the EIC. (does not take an action; increases your debt to Stirland) This bothers me for aforementioned reasons... but is probably OK-ish while we remain spymistress.

No directly illegal records-altering or land theft.

@Rafin
DarkLight140 said:
So, as far as finances go, let's check on the non-embezzlement options available to us- specifically, let's check on the organizational budget shenanigans that we can pull. Bear in mind that the Watch budget is going to be viewed as the new zero point at the end of this turn.

One option, to me, stands out above all others:
Because the new Watch budget is going to be viewed as normal, this is an absolutely perfect moment to shuffle the entire intel budget into the Watch budget. That is effectively increasing the intel budget by hundreds per turn, effective indefinitely, in a way that will attract no additional oversight. If we take any organizational finance option this turn, it should be that one.

This is particularly true because, after we get the treasury of Stirland to cover all our intel expenses, we can then turn around and take moneymaking options to raise our operating budget even further! That sell-EIC-intel option is a great one to take next turn, after the new Elector Count has moved in and accepted the now-massively-increased Watch expenses as normal; we're expecting it to be lucrative so the influx of cash to our budgets will then allow us to use that new windfall to expand. As things stand now it'll do something a lot more like dragging us toward breaking even.

Aside from this, the update mentions this:
We never took the option to shuffle the Attaché expenses into the military budget, so currently Mathilde is thinking that she'll lighten the financial burden on the intel network by dropping the program since she's no longer in need of massive reports on the undead. But, if we're shuffling the entire intel network into the Watch budget and then normalizing that, we don't need to drop the Attaché program in spite of its cost- and I think everyone here can see the benefits of keeping eyes throughout the military and reports on their activities and accomplishments flowing our way. We have dozens of intel officers used to filling out "we killed these undead" reports, we can expand that with some other standard report types (which should be quite accepted; we already have seen "we killed these orcs" jammed into the undead-report form by well-intentioned officers) and effectively have a constant stream of data on exactly what the military is up to- particularly if Gustav stays in charge, since he's unlikely to dispute our right to that activity at this point.

If these drop the income so that we're at the low point- after the infrastructure is built and paid for, but before it's in use and producing income- when the watch budget is normalized, that would be fantastic. If the "yield an unknown number of Budget Points" happens simultaneously with the cost, then these are a much less good idea. @BoneyM, could you clarify?

These are the other available Watch actions with listed net costs:
Either would be a solid choice. Covering poorer urban areas will improve the quality of the city but probably weaken the thieves' guilds, if we're still looking to those as an option; increasing their numbers increases their abilities to spike manpower when trying to bring down significant opposition, suppress riots in times of unrest, or revolt in the name of Ranald carry out other tasks requiring large numbers.


Overall, I think Special Branch is absolutely essential to take this turn, Trade Delegation should be taken this turn only if Special Branch is not taken as it's simply not as lucrative and the two work at cross-purposes, and saltpeter production should be taken if we won't see income from it yet- otherwise, expand the Watch instead.
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I have read the plans and didn't find anything that resonated with me, I have also read @DarkLight140 post and agree with many points, so I decided to make my own.

[X] Plan Loyal to Van Hal
-[X] Special Branch: Pull some financial trickery to get the information network classified as part of the Watch, so that their costs are covered by the Stirlandian treasury.
-[X] Set up saltpeter production facilities using headhunted experts from Nuln. (-2 Budget Points)
-[X] As above, but insist on being a part of whatever happens.
--[X] Ranald's Blessing
-[X] Spend time with Anton, possibly talking about how good a candidate he would be - local support, known to external powers, and a few powerful friends supporting him, and so forth.
--[X] Make sure both of your loyalties still ultimately lie with House Van Hal.
-[X] Stirland Watch: Work alongside Jack to administer the Watch. Choose another Organizational Action for the Watch.
--[X] Verena is the Goddess of Justice. Enshrine her as the patron goddess of the Stirland Watch.
-[X] Attend the Elector's Meet yourself, to take any opportunity that arises to manipulate events in your favour.
-[X] Your experience with the so-called Fog of War has given you a lot of ideas for new applications of Ulgu.
-[X] Free Time: Now well-established in Wurtbad, you can spend some time in your scant off hours getting to know someone better. Pick one character. (does not take an action)
--[X] Kasmir

Goals of that plan:
1) Try to ensure that next EC is Van Hal or otherwise acceptable to us (Anton)
2) Expand watch budget. If (1) succeeds, then no harm no foul, if it fails we have more leeway with watch budget.

I didn't pick any get-rich-quick options, because it is against letter of our oaths to Colleges and, more importantly, against spirit of our oaths to Van Hal. Our debt? That's Stirland's money. These pieces of land? That's Stirland's future money, next EC can sell it to nobles and shore up treasury. Money in treasury? That's also, obviously, Stirland's money. Would Van Hal want us to steal Stirland's money? Hell no, that's my answer.
Besides, I'm not sure what would Mathilde even do with all that money.

And before someone points out that I use a lot of Stirland's money for Watch - well, Watch is Stirland's organization, so in that case those funds still work for Stirland.

I chose Kasmir as free action person because I want to know his plans and see how his own crisis of faith progresses. I'm not fully committed to it and to Ulgu research - if someone has arguments that we should do something else, I'm ready to listen.
 
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BoneyM said:
It did specifically refer to the possibility that you found it through snooping rather than Abelhelm's death. Which explains why there was a second layer of encryption you could only crack if you'd been given the Liber Mortis.
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I meant more, did you already have this letter in your writer's notes before Abelheim suddenly died to bad rolls?

Also, what ended up happening with the Asarnil memoirs? Did they sell? If yes, where did the proceeds go?

Angelform said:
If we get kicked out of the spymaster role we may well lose the Watch. If that happens and we linked the two by payroll we might lose both.
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The Watch is legally under purview of the Spymaster of Stirland. We would definitely lose it and the new Spymaster would probably thank us for the power boost. Or curse us for the constant work and responsibility.
That said, we would also lose our discretionary income, which is the money we pay the network with in the first place. And all of it is under Julia. If she were to jump ship and pledge herself to the new Spymaster he or she would have access to the whole thing no problem, and there's nothing we can do beyond killing Julia if she does that. We haven't even investigated her for blackmail. Or anything really. For all we know she is a Chaos worshipper that's been embezzling us like crazy, especially regarding the "lost" profits of the last few gossip monger actions.
 
LockedMind said:
I have read the plans and didn't find anything that resonated with me, I have also read @DarkLight140 post and agree with many points, so I decided to make my own.

[X]Plan Loyal to Van Hal
-[X] Special Branch: Pull some financial trickery to get the information network classified as part of the Watch, so that their costs are covered by the Stirlandian treasury.
-[X] Set up saltpeter production facilities using headhunted experts from Nuln. (-2 Budget Points)
-[X] As above, but insist on being a part of whatever happens.
--[X] Ranald's Blessing
-[X] Spend time with Anton, possibly talking about how good a candidate he would be - local support, known to external powers, and a few powerful friends supporting him, and so forth.
--[X] Make sure both of your loyalties still ultimately lie with House Van Hal.
-[X] Stirland Watch: Work alongside Jack to administer the Watch. Choose another Organizational Action for the Watch.
--[X] Shallya is the Goddess of Mercy. An odd choice for the Watch, but it would ensure that they remember their duty to the common people.
-[X] Attend the Elector's Meet yourself, to take any opportunity that arises to manipulate events in your favour.
-[X] Your experience with the so-called Fog of War has given you a lot of ideas for new applications of Ulgu.
-[X] Free Time: Now well-established in Wurtbad, you can spend some time in your scant off hours getting to know someone better. Pick one character. (does not take an action)
--[X] Kasmir

Goals of that plan:
1) Try to ensure that next EC is Van Hal or otherwise acceptable to us (Anton)
2) Expand watch budget. If (1) succeeds, then no harm no foul, if it fails we have more leeway with watch budget.

I didn't pick any get-rich-quick options, because it is against letter of our oaths to Colleges and, more importantly, against spirit of our oaths to Van Hal. Our debt? That's Stirland's money. These pieces of land? That's Stirland's future money, next EC can sell it to nobles and shore up treasury. Money in treasury? That's also, obviously, Stirland's money. Would Van Hal want us to steal Stirland's money? Hell no, that's my answer.
Besides, I'm not sure what would Mathilde even do with all that money.

And before someone points out that I use a lot of Stirland's money for Watch - well, Watch is Stirland's organization, so in that case those funds still work for Stirland.

I chose Kasmir as free action person because I want to know his plans and see how his own crisis of faith progresses. I'm not fully committed to it and to Ulgu research - if someone has arguments that we should do something else, I'm ready to listen.
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I like most of it, it jives with a lot of my instincts, but it appears from the last few updates that canon Shallyans are heavily corrupted by Lamian vampires. IDK whether that is true here or not... But I don't think giving them an easy in to our nascent intelligence enforcement agency is the best play.

Probably have to spend a point of Dwarf rep, or accept Verana.
 
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Alliterate said:
I like most of it, it jives with a lot of my instincts, but it appears from the last few updates that Shallyans are heavily corrupted by Lamian vampires. IDK whether that is true here or not... But I don't think giving them an easy in to our nascent intelligence enforcement agency is the best play.

Probably have to spend a point of Dwarf rep, or accept Verana.
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I'm not dead-set on Shallya and I forgot about Lahmians, so I will change it to Verena. I don't think that Grungni will fly.
 
I'm a little overwhelmed by the wave of plans, so I'm going to have a nap and then compile a bunch more miscellanea like the Proto-FAQ before trying to find something to vote for.

Until then, I have a general suggestion:
Ask yourself - would Abelhelm approve of your plan?
 
Hey none of the plans seem to handle the letter we found and stuff?

Guys what are we going to do about it? Are we going to pass it along to our master or not? It's kind of slipped out of our discussions.
 
LightMage said:
Hey none of the plans seem to handle the letter we found and stuff?

Guys what are we going to do about it? Are we going to pass it along to our master or not? It's kind of slipped out of our discussions.
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Well, my not-quite-a-plan-as-I-don't-want-to-split-anti-embezzlement-votes-any-futher does, as does the leading plan (under 'As above...'). @LockedMind ?

Light the Grey Touchpaper and either A. stand back or B. jump in.
 
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Alliterate said:
Aiming for the timing Boney outlined
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Alliterate said:
--[] Ostensibly as a representative of Stirlands caretaker government, to deliver a report on the destruction of Drakenhof and the Purge With the preceding.
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Which of the above two do you consider more important? Or do you think including both is worth the risk of overwork? Because honestly, I am quite partial to the actions I chose, other than Gustav.
Alliterate said:
EIC is a major player.
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We had this option for so long now. I don't see why these crucial 6 months have to be spent on learning economics if we can do so a year from now. It isn't even as if then it would become to late to be an active EIC partner due to lack of information continuity. We have spies all through the company after all.
Alliterate said:
Though I could see either Kasmir or Gustav or the long-forgotten Schultz.
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Kind of funny that you told me you don't care about Gustav and now think about including him anyway :p.
I see this one as more of a social and emotional healing action, with maybe some bussiness on the side. Kasmir won't be healthy for either of us right now I think, so I'd rather leave to stew until I see what he's up to during the next council meet. And Schulz really wouldn't be a social call, what with us knowing jack shit about him as a person. Not the appropriate time to fix that either IMO.

Alliterate said:
Quite an OOC decision framed that way, though.
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Not necesarily. Nowhere in Mathilde's headspace narrative was it mentioned wether she would really like staying on for a non-Van Hal non-Anton EC. And if BoneyM partially bases her inner thoughts around OOC thread trends (as many QMs do) then such a thought could pass her mind as well. The Empire is full of Sigmarite fools. Why try helping these ones in particular if they soon may not be her responsibility anymore, nor something she'd have to suffer dealing with on a daily basis. Or, you know, she simply accepts that right now there's more important things to do for the good of the Watch and Stirland than liberating them from worshipping a useless god. Secure money first, purge later if you will, even if it grates to see them doing Sigmar signs towards her. Practical is still a trait we have.

Anyway, I'll edit and repost my plan for now, based on our conversation.
 
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