TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
It would also be pretty cool if we could create/become a gestalt mind. It would be useful to have more bodies.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Fuck.Given that the Abyssals are obviously Nagash and maybe the vampires, the Solars must therefore be the Tomb Kings.
Look me in the eye over the internet and tell me that Settra and Khalida aren't Solars.
You're right.
Well fuck me runnin lol.
- Location
- Leeds
They are a eusocial species, but they're eusocial like ants they are not all the same being (by our consideration, they are by theirs) each has seperate minds
And although we don't know how they share information we do know that they need to do it within the hivemind.
E:
Yeah this is why I added the edit. Because I wasn't sure exactly what the question was.
I felt like the original statement assumed that once a We all of them knew which seems to be the assumption in TaliesinSkye's follow up question.
I do however think we can be reasonably sure that distance on the communication is limited and its non magical as I think it'd be an impossibly rare event hunters got lost otherwise.
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- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Khazalid version first, no question.
Our work was made possible under the auspices of the King of Karak Eight Peaks, not the Grey College, and dwarves face skaven a lot more than the Empire does. A Queekish-Khazalid dictionary helps the entire Karaz Ankor push back against them by reading their mail and interrogating them.
We don't actually know that. Boney said that the research option to investigate their communication would reveal if consciousness was an emergent property of a coordinating hunter species or if an entire We hive has a single soul. This was in regard to the question "if you make a We familiar, do you just get the one spider or the entire hive?"
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Yeah, pretty much. Have dwarven runes to help reduce the risks and difficulty as much as possible. Then have people start cranking out magical items. We gain another hugely important trade good, and everyone benefits.
- Location
- Australia
Wouldn't really call this metagaming. This could well just be guesses from what they know of the dwarfs in-character.
Hell no. Five years away from our people is too long. Way too much of a timeskip. Also, learning as much magic as you want to has a chance of an arcane mark and two of them would be pretty bad for Mathilde, and so must be avoided.
the most useful application I can think of if it can be applied to other winds would be the formation of choirs for the other Colleges besides the Light one it would make for a hell of a force multiplier. Or a communication enchantment for Armies as a battle magic. I think the Dwarves have a runic standard that dose that.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
The metagaming would probably come more in the minor moments like people going "Belegar's goal will be X because that's what he did in canon" or something like that.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
It's not too long if we crack immortality! Dwarves are long-lived anyway, Kragg's been in his workshop without leaving for longer stretches than that.
Any "we should establish X magical institution at K8P" has to answer in the positive to at least one of two questions:
1. Does Karak 8 Peaks provide some unique resource that makes it a good idea to have said institution there as opposed to somewhere relatively safer within the Empire?
2. Does the magical institution provide some sort of unique benefit for K8P that would make it worthwhile to expend massive amounts of resources to convince wizards to come to this outpost beyond the edge of civilization as opposed to somewhere relatively safer within the Empire?
1. Does Karak 8 Peaks provide some unique resource that makes it a good idea to have said institution there as opposed to somewhere relatively safer within the Empire?
2. Does the magical institution provide some sort of unique benefit for K8P that would make it worthwhile to expend massive amounts of resources to convince wizards to come to this outpost beyond the edge of civilization as opposed to somewhere relatively safer within the Empire?
- Location
- Leeds
As I added in the later edit. I don't think the mechanic of genetic diversity being maintained by lost We's wandering into different colonies makes sense if they just push all their souls into a big ball of soul for the whole colony.
What does it mean when the We is lost? Does it not have a soul until it finds another colony or does its soul fragment pull itself out of the ball and fly back to it. Why is knowledge impermanent?
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Mathilde uses magic all the time, and eventually she'll start accumulating arcane marks. Learning elven magical techniques should make miscasting less likely, not more.
I also hope that the near universal magical talent of the elves means they've developed lots of minor magical tricks like the Tool Free enchanting package that can be applied the rest of her higher end skills.
TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
If we started learning the basics of other winds from the Elves ala the path of High Magic maybe we could avoid marks by being less slanted toward Ulgu? Or they might have other means of avoiding arcane marks that are unknown to the Colleges.
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Amusingly enough the Hierophant was the title of the 'top' Solar priest during the First Age in Exalted.
Maybe that's something we could tempt the dragon with?
Maybe do both so nobody feels left out?
The Empire will probably get more out of the dictionary due to Grey Wizards being able to capture more sample and having a culture of subterfuge considerably more developed than the Karaz Ankor.
IMO, I'd actually like to think that, like picklepikkl linked and quoted the Picard quote, the Mors alt "game" is characterized by: "It is possible to commit no mistakes, and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life."
They simply... did not have the ability to receive intel reports on what was going on in the surface. Because they're literally cut off from the surface.
*Citadel entrance to overland: blocked by giant spiders and then Dwarfs
*Karagril: Dwarfs
*Zilfin: Skryre and Motherfucking Dragon
*Yar: Eshin all the way.
*Rhyn: Greenskins
*Mhonar: Seriously, Fuck This Place, It Just Kills Our Dudes Dead And We Still Have No Idea What It Is
*Kvinn-Wyr: Trolls. Also, not actually available to them -- it's on the other side of the Under-Citadel.
They literally don't have any major routes open to the surface. It's guesswork as to assume whether or not they have secret special Skaven tunnels that can do so.
Which means that their level of knowledge would consist of: "Citadel changes hands from Greenskins to Dwarfs; then giant spiders rolled into the Under-Citadel and set up shop there." "Karagril was assaulted by Dwarfs, and a surge of Karak Drazh Orcs -- we can assume the Dwarfs have come to Karak Eight Peaks, may hold a peak or two." "There were multiple throngs involved; Karak Azul, and Clan Angrund. The Clan of K8P. And a bunch of human mercenaries." (Note: they may not actually have enough knowledge to be able to recognize Karak Azul, or differentiate it from Belegar's Throng.) "Dwarfs have set up defenses in Upper-Karagril; they are not aggressing against us, however."
So what does the situation look like for Clan Mors? For their awareness?
They might not even know about any Wizards in K8P. They might have assumed that, with the presence of lots of human mercenaries, the humans might have brought a wizard or two. But that's just extrapolation on their parts.
They don't even know that somebody assassinated the Karagril Orc leadership. They just know that the Orcs collapsed into infighting one day, with several bosses dying, and that the Karak Drazh orcs started streaming through the Underway.
They know that Dwarfs are in the Citadel, and in Karagril. They know that the Dwarfs obviously must have set up defenses against Under-Citadel (because there's giant goddamn spiders there) and in Under-Karagril (this time, they saw this personally).
They know that the Dwarfs brought human mercenaries. They know that there are thousands, maybe several ten thousand, Dwarfs.
They know that the Dwarfs have not aggressed against them in all this time. At all. They fortified Upper-Karagril, and then did not attack them at all.
And that's... probably all.
Them blaming raids and theft on Clan Eshin? That's totally reasonable of them.
So... As far as Clan Mors was aware, the Dwarfs only even have access to them via Karagril... and they're not budging from there.
When their GM throws this Turn Of Horrible Surprises at them, I like to think that he is more likely to give the Picard quote than the "You were metagaming
" comedy sketch. The players did not know what they were dealing with... But then, they simply were not expected to be able to know it, due to their limits.It's just sad all around. They were in dire straights. They were making the best choices they could. Playing the best they could. They even had some strategies and means for possibly surviving or winning; mostly by being prepared, and waiting for an opportune moment -- like the Karagril assault. And now the Eshin assault.
And then, despite them doing their best, they got served a raw deal anyway.
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It's too late for that. Mathilde has an arcane mark, Ulgu has claimed her as surely as Sigmar claims his priests or the Dark Gods their cultists. That is what arcane marks are, mutations of the soul.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
High Magic depends on not having any marks to begin with. Once you have an Arcane Mark, you are forever tied to that wind.
Sinsystems
Patron Librarian
Hmm point, although in terms of making no mistakes I think that they possibly had a situation where they were primarily focused on defensive tactics and as such neglected their external information gathering attempts that would have allowed them to be more aware. Like for the We situation they would write them off as giant spiders and not bother to investigate further, which if they succeeded at would have tipped them off to the Dwarves being on Friendly relations with them...which would throw the players for quite a loop.IMO, I'd actually like to think that, like picklepikkl linked and quoted the Picard quote, the Mors alt "game" is characterized by: "It is possible to commit no mistakes, and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life."
They simply... did not have the ability to receive intel reports on what was going on in the surface. Because they're literally cut off from the surface.
*Citadel entrance to overland: blocked by giant spiders and then Dwarfs
*Karagril: Dwarfs
*Zilfin: Skryre and Motherfucking Dragon
*Yar: Eshin all the way.
*Rhyn: Greenskins
*Mhonar: Seriously, Fuck This Place, It Just Kills Our Dudes Dead And We Still Have No Idea What It Is
*Kvinn-Wyr: Trolls. Also, not actually available to them -- it's on the other side of the Under-Citadel.
They literally don't have any major routes open to the surface. It's guesswork as to assume whether or not they have secret special Skaven tunnels that can do so.
Which means that their level of knowledge would consist of: "Citadel changes hands from Greenskins to Dwarfs; then giant spiders rolled into the Under-Citadel and set up shop there." "Karagril was assaulted by Dwarfs, and a surge of Karak Drazh Orcs -- we can assume the Dwarfs have come to Karak Eight Peaks, may hold a peak or two." "There were multiple throngs involved; Karak Azul, and Clan Angrund. The Clan of K8P. And a bunch of human mercenaries." (Note: they may not actually have enough knowledge to be able to recognize Karak Azul, or differentiate it from Belegar's Throng.) "Dwarfs have set up defenses in Upper-Karagril; they are not aggressing against us, however."
So what does the situation look like for Clan Mors? For their awareness?
They might not even know about any Wizards in K8P. They might have assumed that, with the presence of lots of human mercenaries, the humans might have brought a wizard or two. But that's just extrapolation on their parts.
They don't even know that somebody assassinated the Karagril Orc leadership. They just know that the Orcs collapsed into infighting one day, with several bosses dying, and that the Karak Drazh orcs started streaming through the Underway.
They know that Dwarfs are in the Citadel, and in Karagril. They know that the Dwarfs obviously must have set up defenses against Under-Citadel (because there's giant goddamn spiders there) and in Under-Karagril (this time, they saw this personally).
They know that the Dwarfs brought human mercenaries. They know that there are thousands, maybe several ten thousand, Dwarfs.
They know that the Dwarfs have not aggressed against them in all this time. At all. They fortified Upper-Karagril, and then did not attack them at all.
And that's... probably all.
Them blaming raids and theft on Clan Eshin? That's totally reasonable of them.
So... As far as Clan Mors was aware, the Dwarfs only even have access to them via Karagril... and they're not budging from there.
When their GM throws this Turn Of Horrible Surprises at them, I like to think that he is more likely to give the Picard quote than the "You were metagaming
It's just sad all around. They were in dire straights. They were making the best choices they could. Playing the best they could. They even had some strategies and means for possibly surviving or winning; mostly by being prepared, and waiting for an opportune moment -- like the Karagril assault. And now the Eshin assault.
And then, despite them doing their best, they got served a raw deal anyway.
- Location
- California
You repeat yourself.
I would say yes to both.
For the first, Karak Eight Peaks provides access to a radical King, a radical Grandmaster Engineer, and what looks like becoming a relatively radical Living Ancestor Runelord. It does that in a location that's going to be a place that's ideal for martial inclined Journeymen to earn their stripes. It's a great place for them to earn Dwarf Favour from their achievements and so get access to runic gear or training from dwarven experts that they'd never be able to get as conveniently elsewhere.
For the second, Karak Eight Peaks is always going to be at war. Magical support, even from Journeymen, is incredibly valuable and gives the dwarves capabilities they either lack or find very difficult to reproduce. For example, having a major Celestial Observatory on top of one of the mountains to give advance warning of threats would be invaluable. If we'd know that the dragon was going to wake up and kick off the Thunderdome a week in advance we'd be much better off, for example. The combination of dwarven runecraft and Collegiate enchanting also has immense potential, as the Eye of Gazul is hopefully about to demonstrate. Consider, for example, how potent an inverted Tower of Dwellers Below could be, designed to allow calling the dwellers to any location beneath the Eight Peaks, if that's possible. Add on Kragg's work on top of that, and it could do an immense amount of good. Not to mention how if you could build an item enchanted with a permanent Throne of Vines you would have an amazing spot for a Lord Magister of the College of Light to project power from. We don't know what's possible, but from what we've seen the combination of wizards and dwarves can be very effective indeed.
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TaliesinSkye
Occasional Editor
- Location
- Northeast Ohio, United States
We could keep the situation from getting worse, at least. And learn a bit of the other winds, maybe pick up some low level spells.
That said, if a soul can change in one way, what's to say it can't be changed back with the right knowledge?
Kinruush
Who?
- Location
- USA
1. K8P has an easy source of acceptable targets for violence and a couple Magisters who are reasonably skilled in said violence. These are also research opportunities as Mads has demonstrated. Additionally, there are dwarves in K8P who are not wholly opposed to working with mages. There are also halflings and the Undumgi, giving a pretty wide variety of people to connect and work with.
2. A steady supply of mages can be directed at the unique problems K8P is facing and may continue to face, including the aforementioned sources of acceptable targets for violence.
Using the other winds at all at this point would drive Mathilde stark raving mad, at least when it comes to channeling them directly. Indirect use may be posibile, but that isn't going to do anything about Arcane Marks.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
@BoneyM we have marks on our soul, and after we gained the marks, Ranald, god of Luck used us as a channel to take power from Gork and Mork.
I word this carefully: Based on what very, very, little information we have now, on the nature of soul, on the nature of divinity, does Mathilde know that it is impossible for Ranald to protect her from having her soul changed by Uglu to have her acquire the mark that makes her forgettable?
I word this carefully: Based on what very, very, little information we have now, on the nature of soul, on the nature of divinity, does Mathilde know that it is impossible for Ranald to protect her from having her soul changed by Uglu to have her acquire the mark that makes her forgettable?