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It'll break the rapport we're attempting to build here though. We're trying to get the Skaven comfortable and trusting towards us and Johann would have to start from scratch.


Ah yes, Thank you. The situation is even worse then.
... What if we enchanted an item of Mindhole for Johann to borrow? Everything, everything about him, our prisoner would forget. Every interaction. All passage of time with him.

Edit: @Alratan hope you see this: to you also, either spend AP (lol, no unless we can't buy one) to make one, or spend favour for enchanted Mindhole item Mathilde can lend out on a case by case basis that Johann can use. Thoughts?
 
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So I have to ask, what is the narrative point of Mathilde killing all the trolls singled handed? Assuming it is in fact 100% safe it's not actually impressive or interesting to read about, so what is left? Dwarfs showering Mathilde with praise and favor for the boring repetitive murder-fest? That does not sound worthwhile to read.

I'd rather be doing research, hell I'd rather be building a temple of Ranald and I don't even care about that action that much.
 
... What if we enchanted an item of Mindhole for Johann to borrow? Everything, everything about him, our prisoner would forget. Every interaction. All passage of time with him.

I think our glorious GM has mentioned that Mindhole works by taking a bunch of memories associated with Ulgu and then just pressing mass delete on them. That is why it is easy to make them forget a Grey Wizard - lot's of Ulgu in those memories.
So if we enchanted such an object, and Johann used it, it might make the Skaven forget about us, about the artifact, about our wizard tower, but probably not Johann.

EDIT: Found the quote:

Not really. It works because it's focusing on removing the caster - by necessity, an individual thick with Ulgu - from their mind. If you prepared the person or object you were trying to yank from their mind with a lot of Ulgu enchantment beforehand, then you might be able to alter Mindhole to work on it, but it'd be a lot of prepwork.
 
Hello everyone. Finished today reading up on all story updates. 380k words took me an entire week but it was well spend.

Cudos to @BoneyM for extremly engaging writing that actually had me reading so long that I missed a night. No, it really was that engaging and well written that I could not bring myself to read updates from other stories.

To the questors:
I have not read up on discussion but I want to bring up the idea to invest further actions into Mathilde's Fitness. Yes she is fit but I still have the (fresh) memory of Markus running circels around her. At the other hand with Branulhune insane runic power and her mage armor making her tireless there is no real need. Maybe through meta-gaming Advanced Fitness would grand her another point of Toughness or even Wound through clearly an higher Martial score.
 
So I have to ask, what is the narrative point of Mathilde killing all the trolls singled handed? Assuming it is in fact 100% safe it's not actually impressive or interesting to read about, so what is left? Dwarfs showering Mathilde with praise and favor for the boring repetitive murder-fest? That does not sound worthwhile to read.

I'd rather be doing research, hell I'd rather be building a temple of Ranald and I don't even care about that action that much.

Firstly, to save the massive casualties that anyone that doesn't have her particularly advantages would take when they tried this. Mathilde would know that she'd saved those people, and that would influence the narrative.

Secondly, doing something that's traditionally only possible for legendary heroes will change how Mathilde is seen, and how she sees herself. She's made a difference before by being the scalpel applied in just the right place. This would be something more.

Edit: @Alratan hope you see this: to you also, either spend AP (lol, no unless we can't buy one) to make one, or spend favour for enchanted Mindhole item Mathilde can lend out on a case by case basis that Johann can use. Thoughts?

I'm fully in favour of this. I think it would work better with a Grey College Interrogation course, as that probably covers how to leverage Mindhole.

To the questors:
I have not read up on discussion but I want to bring up the idea to invest further actions into Mathilde's Fitness. Yes she is fit but I still have the (fresh) memory of Markus running circels around her. At the other hand with Branulhune insane runic power and her mage armor making her tireless there is no real need. Maybe through meta-gaming Advanced Fitness would grand her another point of Toughness or even Wound through clearly an higher Martial score.

That's an interesting point. Perhaps Mathilde can join Johann and the punch cleric on their workouts. I'd never considered the potential for Advanced Fitness. It's probably not a big enough part of Mathilde's narrative for Advanced Fitness to come with a trait, as Greatswording did, but it's still possible.
 
QM operates under different rules. For a poster, the issue is that you can discuss arguments, but when you bring up names, it's polite to @ non-QM posters, because otherwise, espetially in a thread that moves this fast, it can turn into gossip and hearsay. A sort of talking behind their backs to the same group kind of thing, if they don't read every page, every post.

PMs are PMs, but if you are going to mention people by name online in public in a shared space, it's polite they hear about it.
I've never encountered such a rule before. I guess to an extent it varies based on the preferences of the user, of course, but as to whether or not it's a site spanning thing we'll have to agree to disagree.

On the exact opposite end of the scale, everybody tends to either address me directly or not at all; seeing my username typed out is a bit of a shock.
To the questors:
I have not read up on discussion but I want to bring up the idea to invest further actions into Mathilde's Fitness. Yes she is fit but I still have the (fresh) memory of Markus running circels around her. At the other hand with Branulhune insane runic power and her mage armor making her tireless there is no real need. Maybe through meta-gaming Advanced Fitness would grand her another point of Toughness or even Wound through clearly an higher Martial score.
I don't think we can get any tougher without supernatural assistance. We're already a great sword toting adventurer who lives up a hundred flights of stairs. What more exercise could we possibly accomplish?
 
[edit: removed inapplicable post]
I think our glorious GM has mentioned that Mindhole works by taking a bunch of memories associated with Ulgu and then just pressing mass delete on them. That is why it is easy to make them forget a Grey Wizard - lot's of Ulgu in those memories.
So if we enchanted such an object, and Johann used it, it might make the Skaven forget about us, about the artifact, about our wizard tower, but probably not Johann.

EDIT: Found the quote:
... Thanks for getting that quote.

Ok. On the assumption that having Johann be suffused in Uglu is as bad for him as Chamon thorough Mathilde's brain meats is for her... I am now strongly advocating getting assistance from the colleges for a magister with mindhole for a "cast, question and forget" cycle.

Ohhh, what about one who is watching the interaction between Mathilde and Que.. thingy, but cast Illusion to appear as her and then casts mindhole?

Does anyone see any problem with that idea/do they think it might be helpful

Note, forget cost for a moment, leading written (and possibly spoken Queekish) is potentially one of the most useful things we might do here.

@Alratan due to the need to prep the person with Uglu to use a mindhole item, I am now in favour of spending favour to get a co-interrogator for this action from the College of Shadows rather than involve Johann.

@BoneyM would you allow us to spend college favour to get help from an interrogator that can use Mindhole and Illusion (to appear as Mathilde) in the next turn rather than have to argue for it now if that's ok? :)
 
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To the questors:
I have not read up on discussion but I want to bring up the idea to invest further actions into Mathilde's Fitness. Yes she is fit but I still have the (fresh) memory of Markus running circels around her. At the other hand with Branulhune insane runic power and her mage armor making her tireless there is no real need. Maybe through meta-gaming Advanced Fitness would grand her another point of Toughness or even Wound through clearly an higher Martial score.
Don't worry, it's on the list. Right behind doing our job, raising our Magic score, getting a staff, home improvement projects, doing Dreng's job, our relationship with our god, increasing our Enchanting skill, teaching our dog to talk, doing Kazrik's job, doing research for tactical purposes, doing research just for giggles, doing research to attain real ultimate power, doing Edda's job, developing a unique sword style for Branalhune, raising our pistols skill, raising our assassination skill, raising our sabotage skill, doing Gotri's job, learning to shoot a gun while invisible, learning to see through magical darkness, learning to murder people with our shadow on purpose, doing Gunnars's job, learning Queekish, learning more elf languages, husbandoing the Eshin assassin, dabbing on the Vow of Poverty, and doing Belegar's job.

EDIT: Also, welcome to the quest! ❤
 
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I've never encountered such a rule before. I guess to an extent it varies based on the preferences of the user, of course, but as to whether or not it's a site spanning thing we'll have to agree to disagree.

On the exact opposite end of the scale, everybody tends to either address me directly or not at all; seeing my username typed out is a bit of a shock.

I don't think we can get any tougher without supernatural assistance. We're already a great sword toting adventurer who lives up a hundred flights of stairs. What more exercise could we possibly accomplish?

Martial:
Fitness: Beneath your robes lies the muscle of a warrior rather than the soft flesh of a typical wizard. +2 Martial

I dunno, it's probably possible to get that up another level. I'd have thought that advanced fitness is achievable for any one that's dedicated with levels above that requiring exceptionally impressive genetic heritage to beat or divine blessings.
 
I think our glorious GM has mentioned that Mindhole works by taking a bunch of memories associated with Ulgu and then just pressing mass delete on them. That is why it is easy to make them forget a Grey Wizard - lot's of Ulgu in those memories.
So if we enchanted such an object, and Johann used it, it might make the Skaven forget about us, about the artifact, about our wizard tower, but probably not Johann.
Hmmm, there might be a way around that: a large grey cloak enchanted with mindhole, with the forgetfulness targeting all memories including the cloak. Which would therefore hit all the memories of Johann as long as he'd been wearing it consistently.
 
I don't think we can get any tougher without supernatural assistance. We're already a great sword toting adventurer who lives up a hundred flights of stairs. What more exercise could we possibly accomplish?

Ask the punch cleric, I suppose.

This is the kind of thing where I suspect Mathilde's advanced skills and traits might start to verge into the magical as she gets further and further from baseline humanity.

... Thanks for getting that quote.

Ok. On the assumption that having Johann be suffused in Uglu is as bad for him as Chamon thorough Mathilde's brain meats is for her... I am now strongly advocating getting assistance from the colleges for a magister with mindhole for a "cast, question and forget" cycle.

Ohhh, what about one who is watching the interaction between Mathilde and Que.. thingy, but cast Illusion to appear as her and then casts mindhole?

Does anyone see any problem with that idea/do they think it might be helpful

Note, forget cost for a moment, leading written (and possibly spoken Queekish) is potentially one of the most useful things we might do here.

I'm not sure she knows enough about how skaven perceive scent to reproduce Mathilde's smell and how her pheromones react to her feelings in order for her apply it to someone else while also scrubbing out their own panorama of scents. Or even whether that matters.
 
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On a completely different note: If Mathilde were to die, who do people think we'd carry on with? Our replacement court wizard [likely Johann or Panoramia]?
 
So I have to ask, what is the narrative point of Mathilde killing all the trolls singled handed? Assuming it is in fact 100% safe it's not actually impressive or interesting to read about, so what is left? Dwarfs showering Mathilde with praise and favor for the boring repetitive murder-fest? That does not sound worthwhile to read.

I'd rather be doing research, hell I'd rather be building a temple of Ranald and I don't even care about that action that much.

Narratively speaking there's something to be said about Mathilde making major contributions in the taking of all 8 peaks and assorted landmarks in K8P.

It would be neat to have Mathilde's legend stamped into every corner of the Karak.
 
Ok. On the assumption that having Johann be suffused in Uglu is as bad for him as Chamon thorough Mathilde's brain meats is for her... I am now strongly advocating getting assistance from the colleges for a magister with mindhole for a "cast, question and forget" cycle.

Ohhh, what about one who is watching the interaction between Mathilde and Que.. thingy, but cast Illusion to appear as her and then casts mindhole?

Does anyone see any problem with that idea/do they think it might be helpful

Note, forget cost for a moment, leading written (and possibly spoken Queekish) is potentially one of the most useful things we might do here.
The problem with mind hole is that they don't remember the person specifically, but they remember everything else. For the skaven that would manifest as not being able to remember who they were talking to for a significant period of time, immediately making them suspicious.
 
Firstly, to save the massive casualties that anyone that doesn't have her particularly advantages would take when they tried this. Mathilde would know that she'd saved those people, and that would influence the narrative.

Secondly, doing something that's traditionally only possible for legendary heroes will change how Mathilde is seen, and how she sees herself. She's made a difference before by being the scalpel applied in just the right place. This would be something more.
  1. Sure if we were actually assaulting the place there would be casualties but from the struck through option in the last turn Belegar plans to throw battle mages at them until they all burn so no casualties except maybe from any miscasts, We could even draw them itno Karag Nar's shadow by tossing fire it and have then kill them
  2. As for the second part, you have basically described any assassination that ever was only in this case scaled up to massacre because trolls are stupid. It's not exploiting some novel synergy like say adding humans to a dwarf reconquest expedition, or building a battle mountain with magic and runecraft, it is just taking advantage of the suite of spells any grey wizard has a powerful sword and the fact that trolls are stupid. It just does not feel impressive to me or really in line with Mathilde's themes. At most it's the anecdote she trots out to shock people but that becomes far less impressive when explained. "I was invisible and intangible in pitch darkness and I kept cutting them up until they all died. The end."
 
  1. Sure if we were actually assaulting the place there would be casualties but from the struck through option in the last turn Belegar plans to throw battle mages at them until they all burn so no casualties except maybe from any miscasts, We could even draw them itno Karag Nar's shadow by tossing fire it and have then kill them
  2. As for the second part, you have basically described any assassination that ever was only in this case scaled up to massacre because trolls are stupid. It's not exploiting some novel synergy like say adding humans to a dwarf reconquest expedition, or building a battle mountain with magic and runecraft, it is just taking advantage of the suite of spells any grey wizard has a powerful sword and the fact that trolls are stupid. It just does not feel impressive to me or really in line with Mathilde's themes. At most it's the anecdote she trots out to shock people but that becomes far less impressive when explained. "I was invisible and intangible in pitch darkness and I kept cutting them up until they all died. The end."


I dunno it seems like the kind of thing that could generate almost arbitrary levels of dwarf favour.

Throw on the protector coin.

The Protector: When you act in a way that defends an individual or group from a danger that you did not cause, they will become aware of what you have done and will believe you acted selflessly in doing so.

Become aware of what you have done but no necessarily exactly how, and just go ham clearing the peak.
 
I dunno it seems like the kind of thing that could generate almost arbitrary levels of dwarf favour.

Throw on the protector coin.

The Protector: When you act in a way that defends an individual or group from a danger that you did not cause, they will become aware of what you have done and will believe you acted selflessly in doing so.

Become aware of what you have done but no necessarily exactly how, and just go ham clearing the peak.

I know this is going to sound crazy, but the arbitrary amounts of dwarf favor are part of the reason I do not want to do this, it would lose its weight and meaning if we could get enormous amount at no risk from an action that reads 'and then you decapitated the troll' *N.
 
I have just realized that getting a "Clear Skies" button probably makes our tower one of the greatest places in the world to build an astronomical observatory...

@BoneyM Would it be possible to build an observatory at the top of one of the towers?
 
Regarding the trolls, I don't if this has been proposed before, but couldn't we lure them out and then hellfire them?
Only Downside is that it would advertise our capabilities to the rest of the peaks, unless the exit is not visible from the rest of the caldera.
 
Regarding the trolls, I don't if this has been proposed before, but couldn't we lure them out and then hellfire them?
Only Downside is that it would advertise our capabilities to the rest of the peaks, unless the exit is not visible from the rest of the caldera.
It's been proposed and I think it is the best way to do it. It's just not the best way to farm Dwarf Favour.
I have just realized that getting a "Clear Skies" button probably makes our tower one of the greatest places in the world to build an astronomical observatory...

@BoneyM Would it be possible to build an observatory at the top of one of the towers?
An Azyr-lover! Quick, everyone, get him!
 
This also brings up an issue that I tried to ask Boney about earlier, do we have the manpower to spread between the different mountains?

IIRC, the last WoG on the topic basically said "The Dwarves don't like talking/thinking about it on a cultural level (but yes that is in fact an issue)".

The solution I see is expanding the role of the Watchmen, considering the fact that Humans expand so quickly when given space.

So I have to ask, what is the narrative point of Mathilde killing all the trolls singled handed?

Being Badass :V

The primary practical reason I've seen amounts to testing The Protector and using it to catapult our Dwarf Rep. Another is practice in combating Monstrous Opponents until we develop a Skill or Trait relating to being a Monster Slayer.

Otherwise, there's no real practical reason to have Matty solo the Troll Mountain.

I have not read up on discussion but I want to bring up the idea to invest further actions into Mathilde's Fitness.

I approve of this and will vote for your upcoming "Matty Gets Swole" plan.
 
It's been proposed and I think it is the best way to do it. It's just not the best way to farm Dwarf Favour.

An Azyr-lover! Quick, everyone, get him!
It's come up a few times. I proposed it, you proposed it, somebody else has probably proposed it; it probably wouldn't be hard to lure them out, given that one of our current worries is them deciding to do so on their own. Then the fire and the shadow acid cuts through their regeneration, and they go down like a posse of particularly thick and dimwitted orcs.

Well, unless they're immune to magic, or can shoot lightning bolts. Who knows what that warpstone's done to them.
Sorry, I am a little profane on Warhammer lore... Azyr wasn´t some kind of afterlife?
It's a wind, but when the world blew up it turned into eight magical realms based on the winds. Age of Sigmar isn't particularly bad, but the End Times that caused it to be a thing were, so we're discounting it entirely, generally speaking.
 
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