Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I'm curious how you imagine the Colleges would make us an Elector-Countess.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
They would not, what they would do is push for us to be allowed to become one once we cleared a large enough piece of continuous land, it's been discussed before when it came up. So really it depends on how hopeful you are feeling about Mathilde's ability to do so.
- Location
- Somewhere in the area
- Pronouns
- He/She/They
I hear the Drakwald is nice this time of year, if we were uninterested in returning to Slyvania.
(More seriously it'd either be supporting our claim to become one after reclaiming a province or the Colleges making a united front to demand that they get a voting (but ineligible to run) seat on the Imperial Council ala the Cult of Sigmar or Cult of Ulric.)
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- Location
- the Republic
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] Break College Favor/ Tenure
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
The same way it has been discussed back when this entire vote started.
Either we liberate a land thought basically lost within the Empire and the Colleges will put their back into helping us politically securing a vote to make a bid (So Drakwald basically) or we conquer new clay and they throw their back into helping us make a bid for that. Its a valid vote, there is 68 of them.
- Location
- Earth
I believe this is the premise from prior discussions:
- Location
- Washington
Without the college reward, we could still go out and conquer that territory, and it would even be recognized belonging to us, but we would be slotted in as a vassal of either nordland or ostland, because the default position of the elector counts is not to dilute their own votes. It would involve considerable favor-trading to move them off of that default position, and that favor trading would be what we were buying.
Separately from all that I personally just do not particularly want to be elector countess of the Schattenwald.
Separately from all that I personally just do not particularly want to be elector countess of the Schattenwald.
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That's a good point, thanks and sorry.
While I agree, I think there's still untapped potential there for fortifications and maintaining the secrecy of sites (imagine a location where something important is located, hidden by a powerful Ulgu enchantment that confounds those trying to find it--if you can't or don't want to garrison the location, it's a solution to the problem), and the other Winds have their own use-cases for it. It's also the perfect opportunity to break that barrier, and that's harder to come by than pure CF.
Hell, imagine what the Light Order could do if it knew how to draw steady but large amounts of Hysh from a Waystone, using it to cleanse a location of Chaos taint or the use of poison/chemical weapons. Or using it to help fight a plague. Or using large amounts of Azyr from a Waystone to create more rainfall/clouds in a dry area.
I get why the Jade College wouldn't just give up these techniques for free, but there is definitely real potential there if we get the ball rolling.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
What does "ineligible to run" mean here? For Emperor? Because the ECs can elect anyone to that position, as they did with non-EC Magnus. They rarely do, but they could.
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
A non EC that isn't the Grand Theogonist or Al Ulric, or hypothetical enfranchised Grand Patriach/Matriarch being elected isn't adding more power to an existing institution. Also Magnus is a special case of special cases.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
The best part of breaking college favor is that it can help with anything that we look to do in the future. It might not necessarily be able to get as much oomph behind it as any single other choice here can for the one thing we spend it toward, but it gives a consistent improvement to damn near anything we do where having more collegiate support would be useful.
We couldn't get the Prismatic Wanderer in short order, but we could make constructing it our next project after the Waystones, with Collegiate help provided, and with WEB-MAT and the possibility for contributors from outside the Colleges. It's only weaker in terms of the time it might take to finish, but might well be better for not just being a Collegiate project.
We couldn't get the Armor of von Tarnus, but we could get the best person to teach Windherding to for enchanting our We-Silk Robes with the best combination of spells we can get.
We couldn't get everything from the Pickle Requests list, but we could steadily chip away at it, and trade non-fungible favors for other parts, like we did to get personnel for the Waystone Project.
It'd all take more time, or more effort, or not be as amazing, but we can do all of these other things.
Breaking College Favor is a once-in-a-quest opportunity.
We couldn't get the Prismatic Wanderer in short order, but we could make constructing it our next project after the Waystones, with Collegiate help provided, and with WEB-MAT and the possibility for contributors from outside the Colleges. It's only weaker in terms of the time it might take to finish, but might well be better for not just being a Collegiate project.
We couldn't get the Armor of von Tarnus, but we could get the best person to teach Windherding to for enchanting our We-Silk Robes with the best combination of spells we can get.
We couldn't get everything from the Pickle Requests list, but we could steadily chip away at it, and trade non-fungible favors for other parts, like we did to get personnel for the Waystone Project.
It'd all take more time, or more effort, or not be as amazing, but we can do all of these other things.
Breaking College Favor is a once-in-a-quest opportunity.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I'm pretty sure we'd still have to pay them something, whether gold or something else, we can't just call up Lord Magisters whenever we have a project in mind.
- Location
- Washington
I honestly kinda wish we hadn't ever broken dwarf favor, turning a straightforward matter of "insert things we did for dwarves, receive desired output of dwarven craftsdwarfship" into needing to actually justify the things we want from the dwarves was a distinctly lateral move, and I don't see why we should expect breaking college favor to be all that much better.
- Location
- somewhere over there.
- Pronouns
- They/It
It is but it's an oppurtunity that feels more like getting a steam achievement than something impactful in story.
It is in a sense, but personally I enjoy the spots where Mathilde and Dawi ask for things and just get them. It's not as in-your-face as a gromril runesword, but it certainly opens up doors that would otherwise be closed and makes the part of my brain that likes eusocial things very happy.
- Location
- Washington
It opens up doors that would otherwise be closed, but it has also closed doors that would otherwise be opened. IIRC we could in fact throw enough dwarf favor (albiet absurdly high amounts) at it in order to examine the pheonix crown, but we have yet to present a case for "it would be useful for the Karaz Ankor" that boney hasn't strongly suggested would be turned down.
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And also it would make Max much less useful, to the point where we would have to find him a lot more make work to keep him around. I like having Max around and I like the college favor mechanic since it encourages us to actually write papers. I do not think making the game less complex is that attractive.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Sure, and? Like, the reason the Ar-Ulric and the GT aren't elected isn't because they're not eligible, it's because the ECs don't want them to be. The reasons they don't want them in charge are largely irrelevant to the point I was making.
Magnus is indeed a special snowflake, but my point stands. There is no law about eligibility for Emperor. The ECs consistently elect other ECs because a) they likely feel they have more in common with each other than non-ECs and b) because to become an EC you already must wield significant political power and so will spend time in the social circles ECs move, plus you can use that power to garner votes.
- Location
- Australia
Ok so...apparently the "ogham stones" in Warhammer may be "Ogham stones"? With a capital O? Because while I thought 'ogham' was just another word for standing stone like obelisk or menhir, google and wikipedia seem to say that 'Ogham' was specifically and exclusively the name of an alphabet.
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- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I've said before and I'll say it every time: this is nonsense. The QM has outright told us in the past that using him just as a writeslave is a waste of his talents, and empirically every time we've given him something more involved as a dedicated research task he has performed magnificently. We don't talk enough about how he built up a lexicon of medical Queekish using a captured book and some Reikspiel texts: not the same corpus in different languages, different books altogether. He did this despite medicine and anatomy not being part of his pre-existing body of knowledge. Meanwhile, Johann is the only member of our research team to have actively gotten something wrong that we know about:
We later learned that this was straightforwardly false:
But even if we grant "oh, well, he ran into issues with a topic that he wasn't familiar with," that compares unfavorably to Max, and he got stuck on the ratling gun for a solid year of no progress before we unblocked him, despite reverse-engineering skaventech literally being the thing he came to K8P to do and thus theoretically something he should have been prepared for! Basically, Johann's track record on research actions is kind of questionable. Despite this, nobody is saying we should dump Johann -- I'm certainly not, I love the guy. He's got a lot of other things that he's very good at. But it's just kind of objectively true that Max's research record has fewer Ls and bigger Ws than Johann's; it's not his fault the thread doesn't give him more to do, every single time we've given him a nontrivial research task to do he's performed beautifully.
("But Max's stats are crap!" you might say. They haven't been updated in years, both in and out of quest, because Boney has explicitly said he has better things to do than to update stats that aren't relevant, and Max's stats haven't been relevant because we've been using him as a writeslave. You may recall that when we saw the fruits of Johann's work when we went Apparition-hunting, he had gained a ton of stat points since our last checkin.)
tl;dr: If we break College Favour over our knee, we'll still have plenty of use for Max. In fact, we currently have plenty of other uses for Max, if we manage to break our addiction to tasty tasty freshness bonuses on papers.
To be fair, it was more of the fact that we just had done TOO MUCH for the Karaz Ankor as a human. Breaking the favor system was not a choice, but rather a consequence of a debt too burdensome to bear to an outsider.
I rather like the fact that we are now considered one of the few members of the Karaz Ankor whom's deeds give us real political power and influence. While the whole "You are a Dwarf Mathilde" might be sketchy, few dwarves would treat us as an outsider. We are not owed favors from dwarves as a whole, but we can influence it's whole trajectory.
Not sure if things would turn the same for the colleges, but I bet it would create a cool dynamic too (although I can certainly understand your point since this time it's a choice). Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the tenure was represennted by a steady flow of free CF each turn (and perhaps increased influence over the colleges as a whole).
Comparing Max to Johann is not a good standard because we do not get Johann for his average wizard skills, he has unquiet skills like being able to punch of apparition or shoot battle-magic levels of Hysh. Max should be compared to the average wizard we could get for Web-Mat which would have a considerably better base learning than Johann and most likely either a higher one than Max or other unique skills just like Max himself has a knack for writing. The fact of the matter is that since the founding of Web-Mat half of Max's actions have been writing. That is a significant impact as measures in actual on screen action. Also we know what Max's learning score is from more than the front page. This is from two years ago:
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This feels more like an insult than an argument. Could you please explain what you mean by this?