Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Because Bretonnia is not currently in the project and a lot of people have been thoroughly disinterested in doing the thing that would have gotten them into the project. And we could get concessions form them, but it makes the whole 'good intentions' line very true, because then it goes from 'co-operation between nations' to 'we never brought you in, so pay up'.
I'm not sure it's accurate to say thoroughly disinterested. I believe Father plans including it have got a respectable number of votes (though I admit my own bias might be colouring my memory), and the suggestion of doing it eventually has never exactly been unpopular, just other things have always been seen as more important and every time we start thinking we'll do it soon, events end up relegating it in priority. I think at this point, it will happen whenever we decide to use the Father again and not before unless events cause it to become very popular for unforseen reasons.

I admit some bemusement whenever I see it taken as read that Bretonnia will join the Accords. While I am sure they can offer something or somethings to do so, they need to negotiate with 5 different powers (the Empire, Karaz Ankor, Ulthuan, Kislev and Lorelorn), all of whom need to agree if they are to join. Barring very impressive actions, that sounds to me like possibly being long negotiations. Joining the Waystone Project would be easier as they only need to persuade one person, Mathilde.
 
It'd be part of an action to start rolling Waystones out in Bretonnia.
Does that mean the sometimes mooted rolling out in Bretonnia before every existing project member has them isn't the issue sometimes presented? I've certainly seen people very against it on that basis, so it's interesting to me if the other members wouldn't oppose us doing it.
 
Does that mean the sometimes mooted rolling out in Bretonnia before every existing project member has them isn't the issue sometimes presented? I've certainly seen people very against it on that basis, so it's interesting to me if the other members wouldn't oppose us doing it.

Something being an option to do doesn't mean there'll never be any negative consequences to doing it.
 
I'm not sure it's accurate to say thoroughly disinterested. I believe Father plans including it have got a respectable number of votes (though I admit my own bias might be colouring my memory), and the suggestion of doing it eventually has never exactly been unpopular, just other things have always been seen as more important and every time we start thinking we'll do it soon, events end up relegating it in priority. I think at this point, it will happen whenever we decide to use the Father again and not before unless events cause it to become very popular for unforseen reasons.

I admit some bemusement whenever I see it taken as read that Bretonnia will join the Accords. While I am sure they can offer something or somethings to do so, they need to negotiate with 5 different powers (the Empire, Karaz Ankor, Ulthuan, Kislev and Lorelorn), all of whom need to agree if they are to join. Barring very impressive actions, that sounds to me like possibly being long negotiations. Joining the Waystone Project would be easier as they only need to persuade one person, Mathilde.
There's a very long list of things we might eventually do. I gave up on being hopeful about any of them happening a while ago.
 
I must admit, Boney's responses have pretty much extinguished my (already slim) hopes of a Father turn getting much traction any time soon.
I think there's a suprisingly large lobby for it, but it's not larger than the elfcation lobby. So I think it has a good chance of happening the turn after this or the turn after that, but considering the length of real life time we're looking at for the elfcation... yeah, not anytime soon.
 
There's a very long list of things we might eventually do. I gave up on being hopeful about any of them happening a while ago.
I must admit, Boney's responses have pretty much extinguished my (already slim) hopes of a Father turn getting much traction any time soon.
I think there's a suprisingly large lobby for it, but it's not larger than the elfcation lobby. So I think it has a good chance of happening the turn after this or the turn after that, but considering the length of real life time we're looking at for the elfcation... yeah, not anytime soon.
Yeah, there's not much else I can add to this general sentiment. It puts a hole on any Father-related plan, including the ones I had written up. I guess we could still technically go deal with the Iron Orcs independently, and extract a purely personal reward out of it? But given how we could fold it in with waystone deployment, I can't see many people going for that.

The Elfcation might finally be on the menu...
 
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I think there's a suprisingly large lobby for it, but it's not larger than the elfcation lobby. So I think it has a good chance of happening the turn after this or the turn after that, but considering the length of real life time we're looking at for the elfcation... yeah, not anytime soon.
I can't see it being that soon unless something changes outside of our expectations. We're not going to be rolling out to Bretonnia until everywhere else given the possibility of negative consequences (so a minimum of what, 4 turns, probably more?). Why would we go Father before we are opting for the role out to Bretonnia? If and when that happens, I'm reasonably confident Father and Iron Orcs would be high in the running, but I can't see why it would be earlier.
 
I can't see it being that soon unless something changes outside of our expectations. We're not going to be rolling out to Bretonnia until everywhere else given the possibility of negative consequences (so a minimum of what, 4 turns, probably more?).
I don't think we can count on thread sentiment one way or the other, and anyways, I think you took Boney's statement too definitively.

We can rule out the Dwarves and the Empire to complain (well, someone might complain, but all of our bosses have our back and we're ahead of schedule anyway.) That only leaves Kislev and (maybe) Laurelorn. Both of those are candidates for first waystone, and I don't think the Elves will be an issue. Laurelorn already gets a lot of what they want just for hosting the project, they're not a triage location, and, well. If some Empire bigwig improbably pays enough attention to the order in which we do this magical mumbo-jumbo and starts making noise, or the Elves start getting Elfy, then we just have to remind them that we're very slightly bumping their spot in exchange for an army, minimum. That's just good politics.

I'm gonna be voting for Kislev first, and I expect that to win. If the thread is overly worried about Laurelorns pride, or Kislev takes a while, it could delay things a turn or two. But as small as the Bretonnian lobby is, we're allied with the Father lobby, which I think is larger than you think. I'm optimistic! You have to be, to keep the Father turn hope going this long.
 
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If Brettonia gets the same or even preffered access to waystones as the participants of the waystone project, why would anyone want to join such multinational projects in the future?

You can get the rewards without having to spend resources and the time of your experts on the risks after all
 
We can rule out the Dwarves and the Empire to complain (well, someone might complain, but all of our bosses have our back and we're ahead of schedule anyway.) That only leaves Kislev and (maybe) Laurelorn.
Why would you rule them out to complain.

There will be some pointed questions asked if Mathilde softballs Bretonnian negotiations.

Even Belebro, our friend, is King First, Friend Second, and has to first look to the betterment of his people.

(That said yeah, Kislev first please)
 
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If Brettonia gets the same or even preffered access to waystones as the participants of the waystone project, why would anyone want to join such multinational projects in the future?

You can get the rewards without having to spend resources and the time of your experts on the risks after all
Bretonnia is going to spend resources. The entire conversation thus far is about how much resources we want to pull from Bretonnia hand over fist.
Why would you rule them out to complain.
Because the Dwarves don't want waystones and the Empire bigwigs don't pay enough attention to care, and our bosses have our backs. And both factions are full of basically reasonable people who would understand "we delayed you for a few months in exchange for a million shinies, included a much needed army, which you no longer have to provide."
 
Yeah, screw those Brettonians. They're the ones who should be courting our favor for the benefits of our Project. It's not like we don't have a ton of other problems that are closer to hand that wouldn't weaken our negotiating position.

And both factions are full of basically reasonable people who would understand
hilariously untrue. Those of our faction already bought in and paid some of the price. Why would they want meddling newcomers jumping the queue for not actually that important reasons? Reasons that we really had no need to be seeking out at this exact point in time?
 
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Because the Dwarves don't want waystones and the Empire bigwigs don't pay enough attention to care, and our bosses have our backs. And both factions are full of basically reasonable people who would understand "we delayed you for a few months in exchange for a million shinies, included a much needed army, which you no longer have to provide."
Must´ve misread you. If a proper price is extracted then i guess, sure. Bretonnia is still like, second to last in need to actually deploy them stones thought, so its not really on my list of priorities.
 
If Brettonia gets the same or even preffered access to waystones as the participants of the waystone project, why would anyone want to join such multinational projects in the future?

You can get the rewards without having to spend resources and the time of your experts on the risks after all
Bretonnia will get access to the waystones only if they pay us for it, precisely for that reason. And the price must be proportional to the efforts it took to create the waystones (including wrangling the various experts and factions) and the benefit they bring, in other word pretty high.

Concerning the order of deployment, they should be last. Not only they didn't participate in the Project, but they need them less urgently than everyone on the continent except Tilea and Estalia. For the first I'm hesitating between Laurelorn and Kislev. Laurelorn because they were the ones who launched the Project, the Grey Lords are the biggest contributors to the prototype and one of the biggest to the Project in general. Concerning Kislev, it's pretty simple: they just need it more of all the factions on the planet.
 
Deploying the Waystones from most to least necessary is a laudable position, and I absolutely wouldn't be mad if it shook out that way. I expect Bretonnia-Father to happen in the next few turns purely because of how much I respect the persuasion of some posters who've expressed the desire to do so.

That said, Bretonnia does have it's own Sylvania, so if it's about need than they're not exactly easy breezy.
 
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When we bring in brettonia should be considered in light of when we want to use the price we want of them. Want to retake brass keep? Sell to brettonia for their army first. Want to start making new nexuses from menhirs? Drag the fey enchantress into the lab beforehand and the research will go that much more smoothly.

I think either of those things can wait a turn. Brettonia does not have to be last for them not to be first.
 
That said, Bretonnia does have it's own Sylvania, so if it's about need...
Yeah but comparatively its tiny to the whole of Kislev and the big, big parts of Empire that are just SNAFU. I would say they need them more than the Eonir do thought. OTOH Laurelorn is tiny, so like, W/E.

After that is Tilea and Estalia and after that, Araby. Considering how little we know of them, i would laugh hard as fuck if they actually had their own already.

Dwarves are not even on the table (well they are, but only for reclaiming the lost ones) as i understand it, unless we convince them to invest in overland infra again or somehow figure out karak waystones, which, lmao.

EDIT: On the whole thought, the only one that actually needs waystones as they are is Kislev. Empire and Bretonnia can trudge on just fine, but Kislev is recovering incredibly slowly, is actually getting devoured piecemeal from north to south and an Everchosen is on his way.
 
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Yeah, I feel like this pretty much kills a Father turn. Definitely for the coming turn, probably for the next two or three turns too. Goddamit.
Well, on the bright side I was probably going to be absent during the coming vote anyway, so this saves me the stress of worrying about how a Father turn is doing in my absence!
 
Bretonnia is going to spend resources. The entire conversation thus far is about how much resources we want to pull from Bretonnia hand over fist.

Because the Dwarves don't want waystones and the Empire bigwigs don't pay enough attention to care, and our bosses have our backs. And both factions are full of basically reasonable people who would understand "we delayed you for a few months in exchange for a million shinies, included a much needed army, which you no longer have to provide."
Mathilde, rolling into Couronne with all her diplomatic wit at ready.
 
Yeah but comparatively its tiny to the whole of Kislev and the big, big parts of Empire that are just SNAFU. I would say they need them more than the Eonir do thought. OTOH Laurelorn is tiny, so like, W/E.

After that is Tilea and Estalia and after that, Araby. Considering how little we know of them, i would laugh hard as fuck if they actually had their own already.

Dwarves are not even on the table (well they are, but only for reclaiming the lost ones) as i understand it, unless we convince them to invest in overland infra again or somehow figure out karak waystones, which, lmao.

EDIT: On the whole thought, the only one that actually needs waystones as they are is Kislev. Empire and Bretonnia can trudge on just fine, but Kislev is recovering incredibly slowly, is actually getting devoured piecemeal from north to south and an Everchosen is on his way.
Imo there's zero chance Tilea or Estalia knows how to make waystones, and an infinitesimal chance Araby can. Concernign those factions, they problems tha they're not factions in their own right. Those 3 are divided in countless city-states and principalities, which would have to be negotiated with separately.

The Eonir do need them less, but politically it would make sense for them to give them first priority. They're the ones who actually proposed to Project and the one faction who contributed the most except for Mathilde. And as you say they're tiny, so it's unlikely to take too much time. That said, if Kislev goes before them it wouldn't bother me.
 
It's been more or less intuited at this point that we could have dealt with Brettonias Iron Orc problem in exchange for their help.

Mind, this was at the start of the project, where we were going on nothing but high hopes and accumulated expertise.

Now that we have multiple successful examples and a full-on completed waystone I'm pretty sure we could make them pay us for access to it all.

I'm kind of curious what we'd get out of solving their Iron Orc problem and then asking them what they're willing to pay us to join the team.
 
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