Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I'm not sure on the Blood Price, but for the Waystone Negotiations:

[ ] [ULTHUAN] Cooperation
Ask for Ulthuan to supply information to further the Waystone Project, most notably the method of connecting new Waystones to the existing network.

I think this has been sold pretty well by everyone and it's a solid choice.

Firstly, regarding the Cooperation option - I would say it's solidly the second best option, but just because Ulthuan coughs up the Waystone knowledge doesn't mean it will be actually usable in the immediate term. If anything, it's probably based on High Magic, which no one but them can use. I've no doubt it will be valuable in terms of magical scholarship regardless, but still - it will be one more research option that only a handful of people in the Empire are qualified or have the clearance to work on. Don't get me wrong, more Waystone knowledge is good - but Eltharion is literally here because what we have is already good enough for government work. Hell, we might even figure out how to connect our Waystones to the network by ourselves - we don't actually know that we need Ulthuan for that.

I don't necessarily think we've hit the point of diminishing returns, but what we'd be giving up in opportunity cost is enormous - Marienburg.

I'd like to make an argument for Marienburg being possibly the most geopolitically important advantage we can secure, and the best option, and why. I'm not in this just for the 'fuck Marienburg meme' - Marienburg is legitimately a lynchpin that will immediately benefit the Empire and allow us to start kicking Chaos directly in the teeth.

PLAN: THE MARIENBURG CONNECTION



Important parts bolded and underlined. As a refresher, here is a link to how important Marienburg is by word of Boney himself, but I'll quote here anyway:



Marienburg. The one former elector province of the entire Empire, single-handedly impoverishing the rest by forcing them to either pay their tolls or enormous transit fees on merchant trains to the other realms of Order. If you want to know how important it is, look at just recently when they had to root a full fledged Chaos cult out of one of the ruling families.

If you want to know how important any step towards getting that stranglehold off is - the Empire literally started entertaining overtures from elves who worship rapine, slavery and murder on the mere suggestion they might be able to undo it. If you all were one of the users in thread aghast at that, consider the idea that taking the Marienburg Option here more or less kills that seed of bad idea right here in the cradle by taking it off the table for the Dark Elves.

With assurance of trade and the canal in our favor, we open up unprecedented arteries of trade and navigation in both the north and south of the Empire. The benefits of the southern one is already known - the Karaz Ankor and Karak Eight Peaks newly connected to the Old World and Empire once more.

Marienburg, meanwhile, is enormously rich off just 60 years of separation and gigatolls from the Empire, which is part of what makes them able to stay seceded. Sure, stopping them now doesn't take that wealth away - but it does take their wealth growth from exponential to merely linear.

Opening up our passage through Marienburg lets us get the Imperial Fleet out from Altdorf to start kicking in Norscan doors on the northern shore of the Sea of Claws, which allows us an actual hope of recolonizing and controlling that coastline and making Empire naval power anything but the punchline of a joke. Hell, if you ever wanted to go see if the Norse Dwarves are still kicking, allowing naval passage is the way to do it.

Getting us access again to the Sea of Claws has specific, measurable, tangible benefits for the Empire, Kislev (in having the Imperial Fleet, which they already rely on, even more available), and the Dwarves and Laurelorn (same reason). In all likelihood, it is what the Emperor would want out of this. No, it doesn't bring Marienburg back now, or even separate the Asur from them yet - but we might never have Ulthuan over a barrel like this again.

And for those who like favors - this is the kind of great act that lays the groundwork for Mandred as the first Wizard Emperor, same as Bokha. And if this actually ends up being the first step to bringing Marienburg back in, they might make Mathilde it's Elector Count and I am being so serious when I say so. Who here wouldn't like to open up the North Imperial Company?

This is also a really good point, though. Getting the Marienburg situation sorted out wouldn't just be a selfish, minor thing. Explicitly, everyone involved in the project benefits, and there are a number of knock-on effects that would have notable long-term consequences.

Additionally, another option comes to mind that would also benefit everyone involved in the Waystone Project. There's another Everchosen coming, and it might be nice to have more than just Teclis helping out next time.
 
When I was figuring out who would be the one Ulthuan sent to be Maximum Elf at the Waystone Project, I realized that amongst a council of princes that put all their stat points into Smug Obstructivism would be the guy staring blankly into space with his internal monologue going "I could be restoring Tor Yvresse right now" who would start into attentiveness when someone said the word 'Waystone' and would then be himself very sternly at everyone present until he got his way.
Did Teclis back him up with this or did he just inform the council of princes and let Eltharion know about something he'd be interested in?
 
This is also a really good point, though. Getting the Marienburg situation sorted out wouldn't just be a selfish, minor thing. Explicitly, everyone involved in the project benefits, and there are a number of knock-on effects that would have notable long-term consequences.
Marienburg isn't such an overhanging urgent problem though. We've been throwing our weight around to get people in on the Waystone project, and to blatantly give up information from the creators themselves would be disastrous to morale and the willingness to commit by the respective group members.
 
Getting a factory in Kislev sounds cool. That's the kind of that could really help out if Chaos makes more moves, or if Boris wants to try modernizing the army on a budget, like Stirland did. As for Marienburg, I think Tor Lithenal might be the one to nudge Ulthuan away from them.

The Queen has got Nordland down and Middenland in, the noble houses are falling in line, the city is expanding, and the forestborn are enjoying their new passports.I think the only thing that could mess with her position is tensions between the empire and Marienburg finally boiling over and dragging Ulthuan into a massive war on her borders.
 
A repeater factory in Kislev and/or a state monopoly on the manufacture and sale of firearms in Kislev would actually be pretty interesting. Its lucrative for us indirectly, its probably going to pour a fair amount of wealth back into the Empire, and it strengthens Kislev in an area they're traditionally weaker right as Boris is liable to do some military reforms.

Edit: And I hesitate to say the Marienburg issue is a purely Empire issue for all that the Empire feels most strongly about it. The Eonir probably do not want an Ulthuan protectorate nearby, especially one that could drag their new diplomatic partner into action against Ulthuan. The Dwarfs are pretty unhappy with Marienburg over the Canal and probably hardly need an excuse to back a more proactively helpful Empire against Ulthuan proxies. Kislev probably cares in that its a distraction for their most important ally and that Marienburg restrictions on the Reik actively prevent the Empire from becoming a meaningful naval power and helping secure the Sea of Claws.

There's only one polity relevant to the Waygates right now that Marienburg has made itself actively appealing to, at least in comparison to the Empire- and that's Ulthuan.
 
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Gotta admit, Elf-Batman was a lot more... willing then I thought he would be.

I also want to point out Eltharion was probably in the room during the coronation, softly vibrating because he wants to quit this quaint ceremony and talk about his current fixation, WAYSTONES.
 
Thinking on it we really should have foreseen the 'Sapherian masterpiece' issue Ulthuan has. We have elven mages working on the project and while their information has been a great help their component contributions have lagged. It is all highly intricate stuff that does the job well but is very unsuited to mass production. Heck the thing they build to push mana into a river was a one-off-can-we-have-it-back-after affair. And it was outperformed by a pile of rocks!

The Dawi have their perfectionist hang ups. It was a major achievement when Belegar managed to get an engineer willing to propose that 50 Empire Great Cannons now were better than 5 Dwarf Cannon now and the other 45 sometime over the next century or two.

Now we have lucked out with an Asur prince happily (grimly?) acknowledging that a solution a half-trained novice can bang out in a month is better than one that takes a grandmaster a year.
 
About Marrienburg
[ ] [ULTHUAN] Marienburg
While this matter alone is not enough to pry Marienburg and Ulthuan entirely apart, concessions could be extracted that would be advantageous for all of the polities involved in the Waystone Project, such as the free flow of trade from the Reik to the Sea of Claws, and an explicit stance from Ulthuan regarding the canal matter instead of their current deliberate ambiguity.
While I am more inclined to vote for Cooperation, we need to see how Marienburg would impact others because Lammen Gorthaur explained how it would impact the empire.
Dwarfs: Canal being safer will make them more money and strengthen their ally who just helped reclaim 2 major dwarf holds, while also snubbing elven protectorate
Kislev: Free flow of trade from the Reik to the Sea of Claws means that stuff from the empire needed to modernize and luxury goods to keep boyars happy will drop massively making Tsar's colossal job easier.
Eonir: Marrienburg is a thorn in their side that always intrudes on their borders, weakening them is beneficial.
 
Thinking on it we really should have foreseen the 'Sapherian masterpiece' issue Ulthuan has. We have elven mages working on the project and while their information has been a great help their component contributions have lagged. It is all highly intricate stuff that does the job well but is very unsuited to mass production. Heck the thing they build to push mana into a river was a one-off-can-we-have-it-back-after affair. And it was outperformed by a pile of rocks!

A pile of rocks and a dead fish. It's the dead fish that ties everything together, don't forget! :V

When those notes get back to the White Tower the healers are going to be working overtime fixing everyone's ground down teeth.
 
If you want to know how important any step towards getting that stranglehold off is - the Empire literally started entertaining overtures from elves who worship rapine, slavery and murder on the mere suggestion they might be able to undo it. If you all were one of the users in thread aghast at that, consider the idea that taking the Marienburg Option here more or less kills that seed of bad idea right here in the cradle by taking it off the table for the Dark Elves.

The Empire didn't entertain any overtures from Druuchi whatsoever. The Druuchi are making overtures to Laurelorn and Mathilde can get in the action by talking to them because she is the person on site and is high enough to make decisions. The only official from the Empire talking to Druuchi is Mathilde.

I am against Mathilde talking or dealing with the Druuchi, but the easiest way to stop it is by just by not talking to them. They have no other Empire representative to talk to.

EDIT: Also, the biggest driving force about talking to the Druuchi was about how to use them to pressure the Asur to cooperate on the project, which is already what the Asur offer here (including the one piece we really wanted namely how to connect the Waystones to the network).
 
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That's quiter talk. Realistically though, Reikland's EC tend to get elected more than most, his father is so far a capable emperor overseeing a time of consolidation and general prosperity, while his mother is one of the most capable and dangerous schemers in the Empire.
Mandred is unlikely to get support from the rest of the Empire because he's a Wizard. And the solution to that, in your opinion, is to ask... Kislev? Of all countries, you want Kislev to help a male wizard get on the imperial throne?
 
Trying to get extranational support for electing an Emperor seems to me to be one of the most politically suicidal and self-defeating avenues possible.
 
Mandred is unlikely to get support from the rest of the Empire because he's a Wizard. And the solution to that, in your opinion, is to ask... Kislev? Of all countries, you want Kislev to help a male wizard get on the imperial throne?
It was clearly intended as support *after* a successful election, and it's also explicit Kislev doesn't give a shit about male magic users outside of Kislev. Regardless, there's better things we can all be doing than debating a dead tangent.
 
[ ] [ULTHUAN] Cooperation
Ask for Ulthuan to supply information to further the Waystone Project, most notably the method of connecting new Waystones to the existing network.
Part of the goodness of the waystone project is diplomacy between the participating polities, which is good when the Everchosen's gonna be coming around in the coming decades.
 
How about asking Kislev to ban slavery?

Re: Kislev and slavery:

It exists, but it's very different to the practices of the Chaos Dwarves or Druchii. The way for someone to become a slave in Kislev is if they are captured from an enemy polity, commit certain major crimes, sell themselves into it, or accumulate debts above a certain high level, and in the current era they have legal rights and protections and their children are free citizens of Kislev. Most are household servants or have their own house and plot of land they pay quitrent to their owner on.

From a modern perspective slavery is monstrous, but from a modern perspective no human nation in the setting is free of it, whether it's practiced openly or by names like corvée or serfdom or indenture or penal labour.
I believe this is the result of a game of fandom telephone from this single line in Realm of the Ice Queen:
"Now, Erengrad is Kislev's main trading city and its largest port. Situated on the coast of the Sea of Claws, vessels from across the Old World, New World, and even Norsca come here with goods, slaves, gems, and precious metals."
All other mentions of the word 'slave' are in the context of Norscan raiders enslaving citizens of Kislev. Whether this single line means 'Erengrad has a full-blown slave market' or 'there's a black market for slaves in Erengrad's underworld' or 'ship-to-ship slave trading goes on here, out of sight of local authorities' or even 'sometimes particularly stupid Norscans come to Erengrad thinking they'd be able to sell their slaves, and then are attacked by port authorities and the slaves liberated' is entirely open to interpretation. And the fact that Tome of Corruption says that 'some dark corners in Marienburg' are famed for their 'flesh markets' means that even if you interpret it as badly as possible, it's not unique to Erengrad.
 
As long as Mandred doesn't try poking at ice magic, I don't see why they'd care?

Because a significant portion of the population thinks wizards are damned and forsaken by the gods, you know the whole 'Mathilde almost got burned at the stake as her family watched for animating a toy horse' thing. It is pretty explicit when we advises that Mandred be a wizard that we also scuppered his chances at ever being Emperor in exchange for greater autonomy as Prince of Reikland.
 
Can we ask Boris for the unofficial practice of magic capable boys fleeing to Colleges to be made official? With a promise to not let them touch ice magic of course, not that Colleges even know how. Or do you think it's a bad idea?
 
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