The straightforward enchantment of Shroud of Invisibility is an item of clothing or jewellery that would make the wearer invisible, probably for a very short amount of time. Anything beyond that would have limitations and quirks dependent on how the enchanter adapted the magic to fit the purpose of making an item invisible, instead of a person.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
The straightforward enchantment of Shroud of Invisibility is an item of clothing or jewellery that would make the wearer invisible, probably for a very short amount of time. Anything beyond that would have limitations and quirks dependent on how the enchanter adapted the magic to fit the purpose of making an item invisible, instead of a person.
Fayhem
Definitely not an escaped SCP
- Location
- At large
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It kinda doesn't, IMO. Because virtually nobody's words and deeds actually fit neatly into a single philosophical box defined solely by two axes.
I also saw everybody else's responses but didn't have anything to say in response but "huh, TIL" and variants thereof; still appreciated tho!
lockingbane
If you're crazy and you know it clap your hands!
- Location
- Waxahachie tx
??? Wasn't that something specific to THAT Rider's particular mythos? Leading an army of soldiers to conquer the world?
I don't think many other riders have similar abilities tbh
- Location
- Chicago
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- She/They
It is kinda funny that Knights are not considered riders by default- I'll note the requirement for Mathilde's knighthood included a horse.
It makes me wistful for horses- the way that they were so incredibly important and symbolic before like 1910, and now they are barely even set dressing in most historical-ish media.
It makes me wistful for horses- the way that they were so incredibly important and symbolic before like 1910, and now they are barely even set dressing in most historical-ish media.
That's true for any political or philosophical system, but people still describe themselves as "Buddhist" or "socialist" or "stoic" or "antiestablisharian" or whatever.
For example, the philosophical stance of the Plane of
It is a fundamental aspect of the D&D universe that there exists nine cosmic philosophies, and everyone within that universe is attuned to one of those philosophies—whether they are aware of them or not.
That is, in my opinion, the only way alignments actually make sense.
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I think D&D morality makes sense in the context of D&D but it also makes the place and its characters a lot more alien than many other fantasy worlds in ways that are very hard to portray and which many pieces of media do not even attempt. When Law and Chaos, Evil and Good are manifest things that not only can be messured, but are measured day by day things can get very odd very fast. You can get things like Lawful Good Rebels fighting against a Chaotic Evil Sorcerer king and his kingdom, 'law' in this case having very little to do with the society in which one is raises and more to do with cosmic poles
And because this has wandered afield quite far, how does this compare to Warhammer? Well Chaos is called 'chaos' but is is not really strictly about disorder so much as it is about evil in an Aristotelian sense, 'too much of a good thing', mixed with just about everything wrong with a sapient existence ever, it is can be emotionally mentally or societal corrosive Chaos has it. But looking at the other side Order is not defined by fighting Chaos, indeed it does not even exist as an IC concept, it is just an OOC marker of sanity. That is why it is so hard to peg Mathilde down to a single alignment because in the absence of those cosmic poles her actions are all over the place depending on how you choose to interpret them
Did she read the Liber Mortis out of the fundamentally neutral impulse to gain new magical insight? Did she read it out of the the Neutral Good or even Lawful Good desire to help those around her and the world at large? Did she read it in the expectation that it would make her a better wizard and thus more powerful, something that could be seen as Lawfully Evil in light of the nature of said lore? How about Chaotic Neutral, reading it because she knew that it would be seen as treason and on some level she wanted to prove that she could be trusted with the thing
The answer is all of them... and that is why it is hard to stick two letters next to her name and call it a day
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
This does make me wonder if Ulgu, with its ties to concealment and befuddlement, could be used to make enchanted cloth that only smart people could see.
The obvious question is "Why on Earth would you ever make such a thing", but let's be honest, there's a pretty good chance that Ranald has run the Emperor's New Clothes scam at least once.
Fayhem
Definitely not an escaped SCP
- Location
- At large
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think that's a bit of a facile comparison, because real-life philosophical systems are not all bound to use just two axes to define themselves, and indeed are not bound to use the same criteria to define themselves at all. I'm not criticizing the idea of people using philosophical systems to define themselves, I'm criticizing a specific reductively simplified form of that. I'll also note that many, though not all, philosophical systems IRL are not mutually incompatible, so if one particular one doesn't encapsulate everything you believe in you can add another. There's nothing really stopping someone from being both a Buddhist and a socialist, to use a couple terms you brought up as examples.
That's not really how alignment works, though; the closest you'd get is trying to average out differing aspects of your personal alignment, which creates its own issue with reductiveness when you've got people put in the same box with people who actively believe in that specific philosophy just because that's the average of their own diverging and perhaps opposing beliefs. Is somebody who, in different contexts, could be considered both Lawful Good and Lawful Evil really the same as somebody who's just straight-up Lawful Neutral? If not, why are they going in the same box?
Not sure of that, but I'm sure you can make a cloth that makes you think only smart people can see it. Which seems funnier in any case.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
If we ever make it to Grandmaster Infiltration, I'd be super down with sneaking into an Eshin stronghold to try and nab some tricks. They can't all use Dhar!
It'd be really cool to try and reverse-engineer that into a Winds spell, starting some hedge-y process with Winds but not requiring them to maintain it. Probably impossible, though, so it'd be hard to justify spending AP on it, even if we had a solid enough in with the Hedgewise to get an explanation.
A much more practical plan might be to see if they have any enchanting-adjacent practices, and to try and buy something that'll do it for us? Still a long-shot.
A ring would be the classic. Just make sure no halfling throws it into a volcano.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Narrator: "They did in fact, all use Dhar."
QuietlyObserving
The Railgun That Walks Like a Bear
- Location
- Here.
I'm sure Eshin-friend will be just overjoyed to see us.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
The Skaven's greatest product, "I can't believe it all uses Dhar".
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
While I agree, this is almost entirely undermined by GW really wanting a bunch of other Evil factions, but insisting on their difference from and hostility to chaos.
So there's not really any philosophical association been evil and Chaos, it just happens to be the case that all Chaos is Evil.
Honestly it's would be really interesting for there to be a good Chaos faction, since there are at least four evil Order factions.
I see this claim a lot (incompatible philosophies) and it tends to be taken as conventional wisdom, but I strongly disagree with it. There's a bunch of RELIGIOUS systems that are incompatible with each other, but philosophy and religion are two very different things that should not be (but are) conflated.
Philosophical systems *should* all be compatible with eachother.
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NSMS
Probably evil, unfortunately.
- Location
- A rapidly widening tear in the fabric of reality
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
Why should they be? Like "I think therefore I am, and nothing else exists" is a philosophy system incompatible with a bunch of other philosophy systems. Or better, what are you using to define a philosophy system? A set of metaphysics? A ethic system?
What are the evil order factions by your count?
I miss Eshin-friend. I've never been more FOMO'd in the quest than that time we missed out on him teaching us swording.I'm sure Eshin-friend will be just overjoyed to see us.
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- He/Him
I don't think this is true. Some philosophical systems are compatible, but certainly not all of them...utilitarianism and deontological ethics do not tend to play well together, nor do a philosophical devotion to personal freedom and fascists ideology. There are individuals who will claim to espouse contradictory philosophical systems but they tend to be delusional, hypocritical, or both.
Now, a lot of philosophies do also play well together, but all of them? Not so much.
- Location
- Oklahoma
Eshin-friend, for completely different reasons, is also trying to assassinate the Tzar.
Shenanigans ensue.
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
Like I honestly hope so. I would be so happy.
- Location
- Earth
Can I interest you in this omake?
- Location
- Chicago
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- She/They
Evil but not chaos- Skaven, vampires, druchii, athel Loren, tomb kings, greenskins, chaos dwarves, pirate vampires? Rounded down because some of those are arguable.
I mean, that first is an axiom, not a system, and the latter two are subsets of philosophy?
Personally I'd read philosophical system as a lineage more than anything else, because the subject itself is done the same way in every system: intuition lead to axioms lead to deductions which are then judged against intuition to see if the axioms give self- consistent results. But it's just the axioms that can be incompatible, not the system...
Or to put it another way, you can have incompatible biological systems when you have two different species, but there's only one way of studying both, which is biology.
- Location
- Before the Ninth Gate
Ah, I wouln't call those order factions though. Generally, the term 'order' factions is the guys who are non-evil. There's plenty of non-order, non-chaos factions (i.e. most of the ones here). I'd generally say that order factions are the ones that would ally up to oppose the Everchosen.
Eh, it's a system, just a really, really small system. Sorta boring, but it is one. Not all systems have to cover everything (even though this one does).
As for the comment on philosophy, I think the disagreement is just because English definitions are stupid. A philosophy, singular, can be an outlook on life/ethical system/belief system. This is distinct from philosophy (no 'a' before it) denoting the field of study dealing with metaphysics, morals, etc.
A philosophical system is something like Objectivism or Positivism or the example I gave above: a particular set of beliefs. The axioms of these beliefs can thus come into conflict with one another.
MiracleGrow
Miracles for only $19.99 [They/Them]
- Location
- DOOR STUCK DOOR STUCK PLEASE I BEG U
Completely random question to Boney, have you ever read Dungeon Meshi? It actually inspired me quite a lot when it came to GM'ing elves for my Warhammer Fantasy campaign. (Specifically the Canaries who show up later in). Mostly on how to make elves to make elf's distinct both personality and visually while keeping with the overall core theme to them. But beyond that, a damn good fantasy story through and through that just finished up its run.
Also got another Mathilde comm coming down the pipeline that is err, interesting.
Also got another Mathilde comm coming down the pipeline that is err, interesting.
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- Pronouns
- He/His/etc
We do in fact have an Eshin friend. It's just that neither of us are capable of remembering that the other exists.