Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Looks back through the thread
Guys I think he might end up seeing Eike as worth the effort.
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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Guys I think he might end up seeing Eike as worth the effort.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Can you walk us through such a situation, one that isn't described entirely in generic terms? I'm not seeing how 'how do we help you?' turns into something like what you describe.
It is still better than literally nothing, which is what we've got now and what we will have without Eike doing this. Even malicious lie gives us insight into a lot of what is going on with them.
Thing is, I don't want to ignore a clearly signposted risk to the Waystone project as 'not our business' the way we ignored the Eonir opening up in the first place. And the way we are mostly ignoring the upcoming Ulrican civil war on the eve of an everchosen.
Call it the Gosling Club! Just a subtle hint to the slacker ducklings that these apprentices are going to end up bigger and prettier than them.
Bad information, biased and maliciously delivered information is only useful if we figure out those things. To give an example from the thread, you know how confused the Chancellor was about Karaz a Karak not really caring about the canal and concluding the dwarfs as a whole do not really care and would be fine canceling? That was inherently a worse position for him than if he has not asked KaK, mistaken information leads to wrong conclusions.
Now of course the Imperial Chancelor is not one to jump to conclusions so he asked an expert and cleared it up. But what if there wasn't a dwarf expert (as indeed there is no expert on the noble houses of the Eonir)? What if he did not have that much time on his hands and decided the info he had was 'good enough' (as indeed we might if the hypothetical Eike info looks good)? Well then he could have made a massive diplomatic blunder as could we. And this entire extended comparison does not even go into the fact that Mathilde is not primarily a diplomat, she has less skill and less time to employ in such matters than the Chancellor and yet if he had said 'OK I sent this teenager to build our foundational assumptions about an alien isolationist civilization's major political players' we would have... looked at him in askance at least
- Location
- Red Blood on Golden Shield
Whelp, one more post for the boxcars museum.
You are making us proud Eike!
But that's not what we're suggesting? Or at the very least, not what I'm suggesting. Even if we ignore the fact that Eike already has the +1 Eonir diplomacy skill, meaning she already has an objectively correct understanding of the foundations of their society, the task of the exercise is to find out what goods or services the Empire can trade to one of the three houses that they can then turn into a monopoly.
This isn't on the scale of "we need the dwarves to stop building the canals because Marienburg is threatening war, and Ulthuan hasn't picked a side yet". This is "The Eonir told Eike that they want to drink human alcohol, from Bretonnian wines to Stirlandian ales. Maybe House Maeglin would be interested in an exclusivity contract to control this potentially lucrative trade." And we load up a wagon of the stuff, bring it into the city, but oh no! House Maeglin turn their noses up at it—it's simply not good enough for their refined tastes, and they refuse to buy it, and the whole trade is a loss because we can't find a buyer for it and we have to abandon the wagon and its contents in the swamp somewhere.
And besides, any information Eike gathers is going to be filtered through by the thread and we can make a judgement call on whether it's worth the time and expense. The whole point of the exercise is to send her on a fact finding mission to find new monopolies that some of the Major Houses could exploit when the city expands. And besides, Eike succeeding at the task is a secondary objective anyway. The real objective is to see how she handles a real world scenario involving bolstering an ally through trade, and if she fails that tells us she needs more training on that topic.
Have a draft vote for the action:
[*] Eike Study: investigate Laurelorn for economic opportunities that House Maeglin/Orodreth/Nienna could exploit
The worst case scenario is that Eike is simply wrong about the opportunities, and we waste some EIC gold on a bad investment. If you think the worst case scenario might be something else, please explain it to me, because I just can't see this political disaster you are predicting.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I suddenly want to bring Eike along to meet Okri.
- Location
- Washington
I mean, even if we take it as a given that the Eonir can all INHERENTLY run circles around Eike, what does that even look like? She's looking for underserved economic niches/trade goods that they would rather like, so it's not like it's in their interest to completely look like they already have enough of the trade good's they'd rather like, because they would in fact rather like those trade goods. So rather I'd expect "the eonir can all inherently run circles around Eike" to look like "trade goods that they desperately like, they put on a successful affectation that they only have mild interest in, for the purpose of more favorable prices."
I get where you are coming from but I think you are being a bit cavalier about what we are going to use the information going forward. Say she comes at us with a list of interests for those houses, but one of those interests is not of the House as whole but am an ambitious member of said house who wants to use I don't know... pickle exports as a wedge to overthrow the current leader. We show up with a jar of pickles at our next make friends with the Eonir action and it looks like we are trying to meddle in their internal affair to the detriment of the current leadership. Since the person who first heard about the pickles was Eike all the information on the subject will be filtered though her report and her skills.
- Location
- Somewhere between the stars
- Pronouns
- She/Her
While i'm generally not in favour of doing the Eike action like that, if the current status was so fragile that a single apprentice can cause the entire thing to come crashing down, we have a ton more serious problems. I don't think we'd get much rewards out of it, but by same token i doubt it would actually carry negative consequences like it. If it really was that bad Mathilde would have at least mentioned it in her internal dialouge.
- Location
- Earth
It is our business, and I don't mind chipping in to the problem of maintaining Eonir support, as we've done already, or as Thorek's done, but it really shouldn't be our main concern—Eonir politcking is the job of the Eonir politicians on our side, namely our nominal boss, Queen Marrisith. I just don't see the need to divert Eike's training to address this particular problem when it seems like things are well in hand on that front and we haven't even unlocked her full character sheet yet.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
It's not diverting, though.
It's on-the-job training. Learn by doing, and etc.
- Location
- Earth
It's still training, yes, but it still diverts from other training/study actions that I'd prioritize over the proposed action.
Frankly, I'd much rather have Eike continue to develop the EIC's capabilities in Nordland improving our spy network in the region and capacity to act, our income in general, our influence in local politics and perhaps even set up opportunities for trade with the Eonir.
My personal preference would be to set up our own shipbuilding capabilities which would strengthen both the EIC's logistic capabilities and military/economic strenght of the Empire in general. Perhaps bring in local partners in order to get allies and informants on the ground.
Plus, considering Eike's strenghts and interests, I'd think that this would be right up her alley and a pretty realistic ask.
My personal preference would be to set up our own shipbuilding capabilities which would strengthen both the EIC's logistic capabilities and military/economic strenght of the Empire in general. Perhaps bring in local partners in order to get allies and informants on the ground.
Plus, considering Eike's strenghts and interests, I'd think that this would be right up her alley and a pretty realistic ask.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
In Stirland or on the Sea of Claws?
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Given what Eike accomplished with that wagon of charcoal, I'm surprised people are doubting her capabilities to solve this problem. It's a logical extension of what we'd already had her helping with.
Plus, it lets her set up the EIC as the human portion of the supply chain for the elves, the same way it is for the dwarves. Serving as the elf/dwarf/Ind primary contact point gives a very good niche and a reason to have nobles and other rich folk invite your merchants in personally- and that makes it gold for an intelligence network. Let Eike develop the EIC into her tool in a way we never really did.
And if she does well this next step, she can have a little shipyard building, as a treat.
It might be a good time to get a Ulrikadrin update: send Eike to get plans for a boat that will be able to sail through the canals and do some limited open ocean- her assignment to get plans developed and a prototype built, her resources Gotri's shipyard and a budget.
Meanwhile we go to the white wolf leadership about the way this is developing between the ulricans and the Eonir. What I think we should aim for is the current al-Ulric stepping down and a candidate that will modernize and reform stepping up. Or rather, the Eonir should aim for this, since we shouldn't be playing politics in the empire.
Because I want the ulricans to stop being so tribal and insular and chauvanistic. Because the white wolves doing a dramatic reveal of their saving the people of the villages from the orders of the al-ulric puts everything on him and lets the elves skate, plus gives the people in those villages the status of heroes (helped retake K8P and founded a new place for ulricans, on the edge of civilization again) instead of victims.
Because it gives the white wolves the public glory that they deserve for doing the best by everyone they could, and it sets the grandmaster up as a political figurehead for the reformists, someone who also crossed the al-Ulric on principle; which means we should make sure he's in tune with their other goals.
So, yeah: try and squash the ulrican war and spare the elves by making the grandmaster known as the hero he is, making the al-Ulric the scapegoat, and using the powe vacuum to implement needed reforms.
It'll set foundations a lot more solidly.
Plus, it lets her set up the EIC as the human portion of the supply chain for the elves, the same way it is for the dwarves. Serving as the elf/dwarf/Ind primary contact point gives a very good niche and a reason to have nobles and other rich folk invite your merchants in personally- and that makes it gold for an intelligence network. Let Eike develop the EIC into her tool in a way we never really did.
And if she does well this next step, she can have a little shipyard building, as a treat.
It might be a good time to get a Ulrikadrin update: send Eike to get plans for a boat that will be able to sail through the canals and do some limited open ocean- her assignment to get plans developed and a prototype built, her resources Gotri's shipyard and a budget.
Meanwhile we go to the white wolf leadership about the way this is developing between the ulricans and the Eonir. What I think we should aim for is the current al-Ulric stepping down and a candidate that will modernize and reform stepping up. Or rather, the Eonir should aim for this, since we shouldn't be playing politics in the empire.
Because I want the ulricans to stop being so tribal and insular and chauvanistic. Because the white wolves doing a dramatic reveal of their saving the people of the villages from the orders of the al-ulric puts everything on him and lets the elves skate, plus gives the people in those villages the status of heroes (helped retake K8P and founded a new place for ulricans, on the edge of civilization again) instead of victims.
Because it gives the white wolves the public glory that they deserve for doing the best by everyone they could, and it sets the grandmaster up as a political figurehead for the reformists, someone who also crossed the al-Ulric on principle; which means we should make sure he's in tune with their other goals.
So, yeah: try and squash the ulrican war and spare the elves by making the grandmaster known as the hero he is, making the al-Ulric the scapegoat, and using the powe vacuum to implement needed reforms.
It'll set foundations a lot more solidly.
There are probably lots of unwelcome implications, but I must say I like that general course of action a lot.
Parabola
Divided Loyalties Librarian
- Location
- The Destination of Fate
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The relevant action we have is "Improve and expand the EIC's paramilitary river navy (optional: specify how)", and currently it only has two Monitor Galleys.
The EIC is not at the scale of making ships, but rather buying a handful.
The EIC is mostly concerned with the Stir and the Aver. The only thing that benefits from the Sea of Claws being safer is the charcoal route, which, while important, isn't our main thing.
QuietlyObserving
The Railgun That Walks Like a Bear
- Location
- Here.
For now, at least.
Shell Oil started out as a company selling exotic shells; start small, like an avalanche. Work our way up to the original EIC levels of power and influence bit by bit.
...man, if that actually happened there'd probably be a Lahmian seething at the missed opportunity. A dominant trading house of the Empire under tacit control of the Grey Order would be super valuable in a lot of ways.
So a familiar from Ranald and Shadowsteed spell. Gotcha.
Some would say philosophy is ethics without a point, others would say ethics is weaponized philosophy. Another way to look at it is that philosophy is cartography while ethics is orienteering.
Having EIC invest in shipbuilding only makes sense if we're planning on selling EIC built ships to someone.
The Empire is bound to have existing shipyards; if we want to get really fancy we could spend some AV to get stuff from Barak Varr.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I imagine the EIC buys ships from the shipyard Gotri built at Ulrikadrin.
Probably the main reason we would need to have our own shipyard would be if we did intend to trade more on the Sea of Claws- the capacity for an increase in ship-building on the coastline doesn't really exist outside of Marienburg and maybe Erengrad.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
Dang, Dämmerlichtreiter got so close to winning.