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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Deathbybunnies said:
We're trying not to diminish the important lessons a newly-made journeyman learns when they go out to be self-sufficient for the first time. Nobody cares about "fair", but there's a reason the Colleges don't kit out their journeymen excessively. Eike can choose to take less-dangerous jobs and save up for a healing item if that's what she thinks is a good idea, and she'll learn whilst doing so. And Mathilde won't lose her incredibly expensive Seed she was explicitly told not to hand over to anyone.
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And there is the professional Darwinism, onto that I say nonsense. It has never been proven to actually work in the real world and IC the real reason the Colleges to not kit out their journeymen 'excessively' is that they do not have the resources. Witness the Bright College being more 'excessive' than the rest because they have more enchanters than all but the Golds.

Also I do not want Mathilde to give up the seed, we can just windherd a Hysh healing item.
 
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Honestly, just give her the candle and be done with it. Winderherd ourselves a replacement with Egrimm.
 
DragonParadox said:
And there is the professional Darwinism, onto that I say nonsense. It has never been proven to actually work in the real world and IC the real reason the Colleges to not kit out their journeymen 'excessively' is that they do not have the resources. Witness the Bright College being more 'excessive' than the rest because they have more enchanters than all but the Golds.
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I said I'd walk away for a bit, and going back on that is just... not great, but for the sake of clarification as I'm not up for carefully parsing the whole back and forth, do you feel it is in any way sensible or are you arguing in favour of giving Eike Mathilde's Seed of Regrowth?

'cuz if you are, then I... energetically disagree.
 
Wiggy said:
I mean... fair. Mathilde and Pan are cute and I would be really sad if Pan couldn't remember Mathilde's face. The untrustworthy one sounds problematic too.
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Yeah, and Mathilde's been trading on her reputation a lot recently, so I'm not saying people are wrong to be nervous about it. I'm nervous about it! It's just a bit of a shame, since we know that deepening our connection to Ulgu is down that route.
 
Magical items are a matter of trust. You only give them to people who earned them, otherwise they might let them fall into the wrong hands. The more powerful an item, the more they need to prove they can be trusted with its responsibility, because the odds go up of them getting shanked for it and the consequences of losing their stuff become worse.

If we want to give Eike a magic item, it's either gotta be unable to get looted off her, or she has to earn it from us.
 
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BeepSmile said:
I said I'd walk away for a bit, and going back on that is just... not great, but for the sake of clarification as I'm not up for carefully parsing the whole back and forth, do you feel it is in any way sensible or are you arguing in favour of giving Eike Mathilde's Seed of Regrowth?

'cuz if you are, then I... energetically disagree.
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No I do not, I think we need that and that we have plenty of other ways to give her a healing item.

Andres said:
Magical items are a matter of trust. You only give them to people who earned them, otherwise they might let them fall into the wrong hands. The more powerful an item, the more they need to prove they can be trusted with its responsibility, because the odds go up of them getting shanked for it and the consequences of losing their stuff become worse.

If we want to give Eike a magic item, it's either gotta be unable to get looted off her, or she has to earn it from us.
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How exactly did the Hochalander earn that saddle? By his extraordinary work in the Warpstone powder investigation which amounted to 'maybe Skaven, maybe not?' By gathering a bunch of tavern talk and rumors from Talbacland?

We tossed it at him because we did not at that time need the 2-3 College Favor it would have gotten us to throw it at the College at large.
 
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Andres said:
Magical items are a matter of trust. You only give them to people who earned them, otherwise they might let them fall into the wrong hands. The more powerful an item, the more they need to prove they can be trusted with its responsibility, because the odds go up of them getting shanked for it and the consequences of losing their stuff become worse.

If we want to give Eike a magic item, it's either gotta be unable to get looted off her, or she has to earn it from us.
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We're not exactly offering her a magic nuke, I don't see the danger of just giving her the Candle.

Even if somebody stole it, exactly what danger would come from that?

And as previously pointed out, the Bright Order gives out Doomfire rings that were made by Teclis or his direct students, they're literally College heirlooms that let people throw fire balls.

What exactly made those Journeymen so trustworthy that doesn't apply to Eike, the girl we've trusted with our secrets and will be trusting with our company?

You want to talk danger? Eike spilling the beans that Mathilde was the one to decipher Queekish would put Mathilde herself in considerable danger, but literally nobody has suggested that was a possibility.

I think we could trust her with a cloak or the candle.
 
DragonParadox said:
How exactly did the Hochalander earn that saddle? By his extraordinary work in the Warpstone powder investigation which amounted to 'maybe Skaven, maybe not?' By gathering a bunch of tavern talk and rumors from Talbacland?

We tossed it at him because we did not at that time need the 2-3 College Favor it would have gotten us to throw it at the College at large.
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We gave it to him not for personal use but because having a courier with and extremely fast horse who can ride day and night without sleeping to deliver messages from distant places quickly is an extremely useful asset for an intelligence network.
 
NexusEye said:
We gave it to him not for personal use but because having a courier with and extremely fast horse who can ride day and night without sleeping to deliver messages from distant places quickly is an extremely useful asset for an intelligence network.
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So do we expect him to not use it when he is not on the clock? Do we have someone watching to prevent him from doing that? Or did we just hand him a magic item because we know a significant part of his riding would be in EIC interests? Becuase I submit that Eike's survival would be very useful to the EIC given that without her it defaults back to her idiot father or equally idiot uncles on Wilhemina's death.
 
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Alright, I've come around to decking Eike out. If the Brights can give rings of fireball to their Erikas, we can trust Eike with a magic healing candle.
 
DragonParadox said:
So do we expect him to not use it when he is not on the clock? Do we have someone watching to prevent him from doing that? Or did we just hand him a magic item because we know a significant part of his riding would be in EIC interests? Becuase I submit that Eike's survival would be very useful to the EIC given that without her it defaults back to her idiot father or equally idiot uncles on Wilhemina's death.
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The idea isn't that he would be riding it, he would pass it on to his most trusted courier and let them ride it. But Mathilde didn't know who that courier was so she gave it to the Hochlander to delegate the selection of the final recipient.
 
NexusEye said:
The idea isn't that he would be riding it, he would pass it on to his most trusted courier and let them ride it. But Mathilde didn't know who that courier was so she gave it to the Hochlander to delegate the selection of the final recipient.
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According to the relevant informational post he just hung on to it permanently.

Boney said:
Rudiger von Bechafen, aka The Hochlander
Armament: Hochland Long Rifle, Woodsman's Axe
Equipment: Nightrider Saddle (Shadowsteed/Clarity)
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One can assume not all his uses of it are strictly in company interests
 
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DragonParadox said:
According to the relevant informational post he just hung on to it permanently.

Rudiger von Bechafen, aka The Hochlander
Armament: Hochland Long Rifle, Woodsman's Axe
Equipment: Nightrider Saddle (Shadowsteed/Clarity)

One can assume not all his uses of it are strictly in company interests
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The it seems that he follow the adage of "the only person you can trust is yourself" and has chosen himself to that most trusted courier. And while the goal was for him to use it to further company interests as long as those personal interests don't interfere there's no harm done.
 
NexusEye said:
The it seems that he follow the adage of "the only person you can trust is yourself" and has chosen himself to that most trusted courier. And while the goal was for him to use it to further company interests as long as those personal interests don't interfere there's no harm done.
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That is trusting him with the item them, no? His actual feats have, arguably, been less than what Eike did last turn:
  1. Some gunpowder info that only confirmed a mystery
  2. Some rumors about what Alric was up to
  3. Information on elf god cults we never followed up on
Even if you hold that the charcoal route on its own is not enough to beat that dubious record I'm pretty sure Eike can beat it before she is ready for her journey by any reasonable standard.
 
DragonParadox said:
That is trusting him with the item them, no? His actual feats have, arguably, been less than what Eike did last turn:
  1. Some gunpowder info that only confirmed a mystery
  2. Some rumors about what Alric was up to
  3. Information on elf god cults we never followed up on
Even if you hold that the charcoal route on its own is not enough to beat that dubious record I'm pretty sure Eike can beat it before she is ready for her journey by any reasonable standard.
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Its also as a item incredibly less valuable then a healing item. If we want to give Eike a saddle, sure no one will have a problem with that. It's the very potent healing items that could, in the wrong hands, be pretty dangerous.
 
Tobtorp said:
Its also as a item incredibly less valuable then a healing item. If we want to give Eike a saddle, sure no one will have a problem with that. It's the very potent healing items that could, in the wrong hands, be pretty dangerous.
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I think it's the fact that the Seed works fast enough to be reasonably usable in battle that is the main issue.

We didn't get the same warnings for the Candle because there's not anywhere near as much threat of some bad guy getting a hold of it- they can't save themselves mid-battle and keep going.
 
Tobtorp said:
Its also as a item incredibly less valuable then a healing item. If we want to give Eike a saddle, sure no one will have a problem with that. It's the very potent healing items that could, in the wrong hands, be pretty dangerous.
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Er... how exactly do you imagine the Boom of Hysh could be dangerous? We had that conversation with the light mage that made it. 'Even one of your order could not turn it into a weapon'

Most of our enemies, the really bad ones would struggle to use a healing item based on purity to say the least.
 
The candle's an extremely niche item we've literally never used. I wouldn't object to giving it to Eike because it'd undermine the point of the journeying, I'd object because it'd probably be entirely useless to her, as it has been for us. (We had a decent reason to buy it, but facing down Clan Skyre's chemical weapons never ended up happening.) It'd feel like dumping something unwanted on her, which it basically would be.

I'd prefer to keep it in case it ever ends up useful in something weird and unpleasant Mathilde studies, or even to return it to the College for some CF, even if it's not as much as we paid for it.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
The candle's an extremely niche item we've literally never used. I wouldn't object to giving it to Eike because it'd undermine the point of the journeying, I'd object because it'd probably be entirely useless to her, as it has been for us. (We had a decent reason to buy it, but facing down Clan Skyre's chemical weapons never ended up happening.) It'd feel like dumping something unwanted on her, which it basically would be.

I'd prefer to keep it in case it ever ends up useful in something weird and unpleasant Mathilde studies, or even to return it to the College for some CF, even if it's not as much as we paid for it.
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It can also heal wounds which are a lot more common than Nurgle plagues and poison gas, we just don't use it for that because the seed is faster.
 
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