Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
I think Border Princes can raise a Regiment made of Princes lol.
which might be interesting to do if we ever decide to take over that place as our next job.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
which might be interesting to do if we ever decide to take over that place as our next job.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
A prince does not necessarily mean son of a monarch even in human society. Some of the Holy Roman Empire states had princes that were more like, dukes or something like that. And Frederic over in Dynasty quest is technically a prince iirc. Of the Grand Principality of Ostland.
I suspect the meaning is rather close if not equivalent to the rank of either duke or even as little as marquis. Probably not as low as Baron but who can say.
Last edited:
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
It's not quite just another noble title. I suppose the obvious comparison is with an Elector Count. They have a higher authority which they're supposed to obey, and they help elect said authority from among their own ranks.
It's just that there are so many of them that's weird, yeah. One could, I suppose argue the Elves follow some sort of partition inheritance, where the land of a Prince is divided between all their children, and they all remain Princes so long as they aren't vassals to someone else. That would eventually end you up with a whole lot of Princes, but also they'd all have tiny territories, which isn't really the impression I get from the Elven books etc. Which is why I jumped to courtesy titles first.
Although, if we're talking about IRL titles, consider the fact that the UK royal family (the one Warhammer writers would be most familiar with) do not automatically get to be Princes/Princesses just by relation to the monarch (although it's very rare they're not). The monarch grants (and can revoke) those titles.
ya, but that was IRL 5 months ago.
I'm ready for another adventure.
(also, this might be wrong, but it kind of feels like the turns for plotted mini-arc are a little easier for Boeny to turn out than big turns, So it might help the engine get going again.)
xamaplak
WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU'RE @SOUP?
- Location
- the Soup Store
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Post-Waystone Project:I think Border Princes can raise a Regiment made of Princes lol.
Dragomas: so, you planning on taking my hat?
Mathilde: nooooooooo way in hell, I'm going to go play soldiers with Barak Varr
Dragomas: ...It's a very nice hat
I'm sure boney will clear up/know what people want on the turn.
and ya, maybe we can get them just for results, but the Iron Orc are still a problem in their own right; stamping down a chao faction nestled between the empire and knightland before shit hits fan is not a bad idea in its own right.
The ruler of a principality is called a prince/princess. I imagine Ulthuan's kingdoms are actually alliances of principalities, and that you get to claim the title of prince just by being directly related to the ruler of a principality (like how Anton could use his father's title before Anton the first retired). When you consider that some principalities might be as small as Mathilde's goat-fief, it can be easy to imagine how they have so many princes. It's probably not all that different from how all Imperial and Bretonnian knights are all nobles.
Edit: Fun Fact: the City of Andorra is ruled by two Co-Princes in real life. One is the Bishop of Urgell, and the other is the President of France. Whenever the Bishop or the President changes, the new holder of the title becomes the new Prince.
Edit: Fun Fact: the City of Andorra is ruled by two Co-Princes in real life. One is the Bishop of Urgell, and the other is the President of France. Whenever the Bishop or the President changes, the new holder of the title becomes the new Prince.
Last edited:
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Could the reverse be true as well? Like every elf that rides a Dragon gets to become a Prince in the same way anybody who joins Knightly Order becomes a Knight? Even if they are not noble orginally?
I mean we saw that in the Eonir that Queens Champion is Olympic winner so... I think it might be one of the reasons why there is so many.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
The main problem with that otherwise sensible idea is that they're the Ten Kingdoms. Which implies they have Kings. Also the fact that the Kingdoms haven't dissolved despite Ulthuan being united for the past seven thousand years and still act more or less like the Imperial Provinces would seem to indicate they're not alliances, they have some form of shared heriarchy that doesn't cross kingdom lines. Also they have an entire fuedal structure with knights and nobles below the Princes.
Not quite the same. All Imperial and Bretonnian knights are nobles, because knight is a noble rank. Becoming a knight makes you a noble because it's not possible to do otherwise. Becoming a noble does not make you a knight however, even if you have the equipment.
Dragon Princes (despite the name) don't ride dragons. They're shock cavalry. Although yes, I suspect that if you ride a dragon you become a Prince of Caledor.
I love that Andorra still exists. Along with Lichtenstein and Luxembourg it's one of the last micro nations created by the compromises between rulers in Europe.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I mean, point me to a single King.
(Remembers Alith Anar)
Point me to a second King.
Like, Averlorn is a Kingdom? But definitely ruled by the Everqueen. I think Eltharion is the ruler of Yvresse? But his title is Warden.
Since some people are giving their turn plans I guess I might as well post mine again (there's been very little change from last time I posted them, but it's been like six months so I doubt anyone remembers):
Last turn the runner-up to the winning plan was a Windherding and RoW variant, so the first plan is a Windherding and RoW plan (also I really really want to codify RoW already). The second plan goes a little harder on the Waystone project (by doing the Iron Orcs and by doing a "better" (non-WEBMAT) third Waystone action) at the cost of not Windherding and not getting an artefact off of our backlog and not having Eike do as much stuff.
Obvious possible slight variants which I can see myself maybe voting for even though I don't really like:
-Drop Windherding for Kurgan weapon studies. Still an enchanting action with Eike, still getting stuff off our backlog. Good if you don't want to Windherd without the Gambler, but since the second runner-up last turn was also a Windherding variant I think there's not going to be many takers.
-Drop Branulhune action for Iron Orcs and still do WEB-MAT. Have our Iron cake and eat our extra action too! But that means no martial action with Eike and also come on can we please finish our sword style already
-Drop Branulhune action or RoW for tributary rollout or w/e and still do WEB-MAT. Avoids leaving team tributaries idle a single turn at the cost of delaying a long-running project yet again.
[ ] Plan Lore and Metal
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[ ] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm: Cloak of Flashy Escapes (Shadowcloak + Dazzling Brightness)
-[ ] Waystone: Mapping (Tilea, Estalia) (Johann)
-[ ] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath)
-[ ] Waystone: Nexuses (Bugman's Brewery) (Thorek)
-[ ] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[ ] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[ ] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Any Nuln library that is remotely amenable to a library agreement or that the Elector Count could plausibly pressure into accepting a library agreement in return for help in rebuilding Nuln's artillery industry)
-[ ]SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
-[ ] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windherding enchantment, Branulhune training, EIC action
-[ ] Eike Study: Petty Magics
-[ ] MAX: Study an artefact (Lustrian Rubbings)
-[ ] EGRIMM: Attempt a Windherder enchantment with Egrimm: Cloak of Flashy Escapes (Shadowcloak + Dazzling Brightness)
-[ ] Waystone: Mapping (Tilea, Estalia) (Johann)
-[ ] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath)
-[ ] Waystone: Nexuses (Bugman's Brewery) (Thorek)
-[ ] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[ ] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[ ] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Any Nuln library that is remotely amenable to a library agreement or that the Elector Count could plausibly pressure into accepting a library agreement in return for help in rebuilding Nuln's artillery industry)
-[ ]SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
-[ ] Eike Actions: Lustrian Rubbings study, Windherding enchantment, Branulhune training, EIC action
-[ ] Eike Study: Petty Magics
[ ] Plan Lore and Metal Extra Iron Edition
-[ ] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath)
-[ ] Waystone: Nexuses (Bugman's Brewery) (Thorek)
-[ ] Waystone: TBD (probably tributary rollout, giving Team Tributaries something to do)
-[ ] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[ ] Involve yourself in current affairs: investigate the Iron Orcs of the Irrana Mountains
-[ ] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[ ] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Any Nuln library that is remotely amenable to a library agreement or that the Elector Count could plausibly pressure into accepting a library agreement in return for help in rebuilding Nuln's artillery industry)
-[ ]SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
-[ ] Eike Actions: Branulhune training, EIC action, maybe codifying RoW but probably not
-[ ] Eike Study: Petty Magics
-[ ] Waystone: Capstone (Max, Johann, Egrimm, Elrisse, Thorek, Hatalath)
-[ ] Waystone: Nexuses (Bugman's Brewery) (Thorek)
-[ ] Waystone: TBD (probably tributary rollout, giving Team Tributaries something to do)
-[ ] Attempt to codify Rite of Way so that others can learn it.
--[ ] The Gambler
-[ ] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Continue to work on them.
-[ ] Involve yourself in current affairs: investigate the Iron Orcs of the Irrana Mountains
-[ ] EIC: Attempt to establish a trade route with the Eonir (charcoal)
-[ ] KAU: Seek an exchange arrangement with another Library or a Karak's archives to be able to make copies of their corpus (Any Nuln library that is remotely amenable to a library agreement or that the Elector Count could plausibly pressure into accepting a library agreement in return for help in rebuilding Nuln's artillery industry)
-[ ]SERENITY: The Black Orc Warboss' worship of Only Gork, and what you saw of the Rogue Idol ritual
-[ ] Eike Actions: Branulhune training, EIC action, maybe codifying RoW but probably not
-[ ] Eike Study: Petty Magics
Obvious possible slight variants which I can see myself maybe voting for even though I don't really like:
-Drop Windherding for Kurgan weapon studies. Still an enchanting action with Eike, still getting stuff off our backlog. Good if you don't want to Windherd without the Gambler, but since the second runner-up last turn was also a Windherding variant I think there's not going to be many takers.
-Drop Branulhune action for Iron Orcs and still do WEB-MAT. Have our Iron cake and eat our extra action too! But that means no martial action with Eike and also come on can we please finish our sword style already
-Drop Branulhune action or RoW for tributary rollout or w/e and still do WEB-MAT. Avoids leaving team tributaries idle a single turn at the cost of delaying a long-running project yet again.
Last edited:
- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Yeah, I'm in the same frame of mind. Without the interruption, I'd be very strongly against another adventure. As-is, it's actually kinda appealing.
For the min-maxers, adventures are generally a pretty high rate of return for AP. They also offer the most direct agency over Mathilde's personal actions. The main, major sticking point against them is fatigue, from the same source as their major benefit: multiple updates on a single topic. But after a long break, that's actually a nice way to warm up the motor again. Anyone catching up via archive binge would at least get the padding of a few social-turn updates.
Last edited:
tho on the other hand, if Boney right out says that they would be a bit hard right now, then that's another thing altogether.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Well that's sort of my point? The implication is that they had Kings, pre-Aenarion, but then sort of gave up that power to the Phoenix King? (Avelorn is definitely still a Kingdom, although technically Queendom would be more appropriate).
Interestingly, 7e (and 5e) High Elves says: "the Dragon Armour of Aenarion is forged along with many weapons that will eventually become heirlooms of the great Elf noble families. Technically, the rank of Prince in present day Ulthuan belongs to anyone who can show possession of one of these ancient weapons."
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
They don´t ride dragons anymore iirc.
The main problem with the otherwise sensible idea of The Empire of Man is that they have Emperor, which has only been true for like a third of its existence, as they have somehow had two to three at a time for the other two.
. It would also make ruler of Elves the Phoenix Emperor, not Phoenix King. Turns out names can be a bit stupid, huh?But anyway, even if they have a king, prince can still be just a noble title thats two rungs lower than a king. There being kings changes nothing with the explanation provided by Rex.
If there were enough weapons, this would probably explain it the best thought.
Last edited:
This is very similar to the revised draft of my fast and hasty plan that I'm cooking. Big difference is that I want to do foundations rather than Bugman's, but considering the Emperor specifically mentioned it in our report to him, perhaps we should cover it anyway. Also I think I'd rather have the Protector on for the Iron Orcs to maximise our recruitment favour (everyone in Carcassonne will know the Dämmerlichtreiter delivered them from evil), but I can understand being wary around battlemagic, especially considering what happened the last time we messed around with magic.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
they never did. Their ancestors did, but they themselves never made that bond.They don´t ride dragons anymore iirc.
The main problem with the otherwise sensible idea of The Empire of Man is that they have Emperor, which has only been true for like a third of its existence, as they have somehow had two to three at a time for the other two.
But anyway, even if they have a king, prince can still be just a noble title thats two rungs lower than a king. There being kings changes nothing with the explanation provided by Rex.
Yeah, but the Empire was founded under an Emperor, which is why it's the Empire.
Emperor is just what you call the guy who runs an empire, which is just a matter of naming. See for example the five hundred years when the English monarch was styled King/Queen of England, Scotland, Ireland and France, and not an Emperor.
Two rungs? Usually prince is directly below king.
It makes the "alliances of princedoms" bit wrong, which was the point I was arguing against there.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Usually leaves a lot of room for the unusual.
Could it then be that the ten kingdoms are in fact not kingdoms and its just naming convention
Last edited:
Recall that the protector only procs if we actually save people. From the way Boney described the action when we talked about it I got the impression that it's going to be a scouting action. Now it might be the case that Mathilde sees an opportunity to intervene Alakazam style, but it is possibly not wise for Mathilde to try and solo a force of orcs blessed by the Four. Using the protector not only risks wasting the coin, it also risks spurring the thread to take unwise risks (because if we don't break into the Iron Foundry and kill all of the Iron Smiths we will waste the coin, you don't want to waste the coin do you?). Maybe we'll have a Shirokij situation where the information we find is so time sensetive that Bretonnia responds with an army right away and we can tag along and do some protecting, but in that case our Bretonnian allies will know that we helped protect them because they'll be there.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Crown prince isn't actually a separate title. It's just a way of referring to an heir apparent in a monarchy or empire. Grand Prince meanwhile is (AFAIK) usually considered equal in honour to a king. This is also why Grand Prince is usually translated in English as Grand Duke, as English doesn't distinguish between a sovereign prince and a non-sovereign prince.
Any action involving scouting the Iron Orcs needs The Night Prowler, we know from past turns that Orc camps trigger it. and it's just too strong to use the coin on anything else if we know we are going to be infiltrating in a turn.
its an atio-infliltation, no roll required. That is to strong to argue.
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
It's auto infiltration barring direct godly intervention on the other side(maybe even then, but this is untested). Considering all of the everything about the unresolvable so far mystery, this may be a painful assumption to make.