Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
You know how Mathilde, after she killed Alka Seltzer, there were all of those books she had to destroy and leave behind, or when she was raiding the Eshin leader's office and couldn't take all of their books with her, with this new use of AV Mathilde could create a liminal realm and anchor it within a bag! No more leaving behind valuables for Mathilde from this point on!
That depends on how easy it is to access a liminal realm each time and how fixed in place they are. The boss uses some for paperwork but he's also apparently pretty dang good at the theory and practice and they seem to be fixed in place. Mobile and easy to use, as created by a rank novice, seems extremely unlikely.
 
How would we go about being extra careful of enemies we know nothing about though? I agree that it is concerning but due to the almost complete lack of information and the actually complete lack of reliable information none of this is actionable.
This is definitely actionable, by being aware that we're a possible target. When hearing about powerful hostiles in the vicinity, we will have to suspect that they're maybe gunning for us personally, not just fighting Order or the Empire in general.
 
A demon talking to you and offering you the Lore of Chaos is a bad but run of the mill miscast, what it offered was anything but even for our level.
Better than the miscast when playing in RP with my friends, literally rolled the worst result twice and accidentally summoned a Greater Daemon in the middle of our camp, at night, while we were still low level. Said Slaaneshi Daemon proceeded to do horrible unspeakable things to our party and a nearby village.

So yes, Mathilde had an oopsy, but it could've been so much worse.
 
As you can see, there's not much in the way of long-lasting effects, as befits the Changer of Ways. So if anyone is thinking of finding some Tzeentchian magic item with an always-on effect to take advantage of... it's not very likely to ever happen. Stasis is not Tzeentch's wheelhouse.

I don't think any of us should expect to take advantage of Tzeentchian sorcery at all. If Tzeentch can give us a +20 trait, he can take it away just as easily—and probably when we most need it. It's a crutch—or maybe a blind walking stick—meant to lead us into becoming dependent on Him.
 
I really do not think every LM gets a personal invitation from Tzeench to become Everchosen. There wouldn't be any room in the Chaos Bowl for all the actually willing Chaos Champions if that were the case. :V

A demon talking to you and offering you the Lore of Chaos is a bad but run of the mill miscast, what it offered was anything but even for our level.
Would be cool if one day we could sit down with a bunch of LMs and talk about what stuff the Daemons tried to tempt each of us with.
Other than "wanna be a good side Everchosen that rules the world and fights against Chaos" which is peak lolwut, we've also been tempted once by a Daemonette and once by the evil Chalice iirc.
Here, the Lore of Tzeentch, organized within the paradigm of the quest's Relatively Simple / Moderately Complicated / Fiendishly Complex / Battle Magic:

Relatively Simple - Magic 2 required to learn, Magic 3 to cast reliably:
Enrage Beast: Your eyes flash with unwholesome light as you inspire fear in a single ordinary animal nearby. They will act in random ways, such as fleeing, fainting, attacking anyone, or dying.
Flames of Fate: Pale orange flames spring up from the ground around you, which contain visions of the near future. These visions may aid you within minutes.

Moderately Complicated - Magic 3 required to learn, Magic 5 to cast reliably:
Mindfire: You cause a lance of magenta flame to leap from your hand and strike a nearby target, which tears away at the victim's sanity. If the victim's sanity is already in jeopardy, they take physical damage that ignores toughness and armor, but their sanity is somewhat restored. If their sanity would be fully restored from this effect, they lose any insanities on them.
Pink Fire of Tzeentch: With guttering pink flames, you strike a single creature nearby, causing good damage that ignores armor.
Slave to Chaos: You put your body in a deep coma and send your consciousness into another living creature nearby, attacking them psychically and possibly allowing you to control their actions. The possessed subject runs the risk of gaining a mutation at the end of the spell.
Subvert Strength: Your hand glows with queer blue spots. The next nonmagical inanimate object you touch loses its hardness, becoming soft and malleable. Steel bends, glass folds, rock becomes putty. Cast on a weapon, it bends or breaks in combat. On armor it ceases it removes its protection. The object remains soft and wax-like for several minutes.
Transformation of Tzeentch: You attempt to transform an individual nearby and force them to undergo a series of horrific transformations, granting them several mutations. Whilst under this effect, the target is considered helpless.
Tzeentch's Blessing: You cry out to Tzeentch for his blessing, either granting you a mutation or more magical might for a day.

Fiendishly Complex - Magic 5 required to learn, Magic 7 to cast reliably:
Destroy Magic: You draw in the energy found within a targeted magic item, making it lose all magical properties for several minutes. If you cannot contain the energies you gain a mutation.
Dispel Mortal: With a tremendous act of will you attempt to suck a nearby creature into the Realm of Chaos to become a plaything of Daemons.
Tzeentch's Fire Storm: You cause a blasphemous storm of purple flame to erupt anywhere you designate nearby. Those in the flame take great damage, and those slain by it are incinerated, transformed into a pink ash that blows away in the wind and then coalesces into Pink Horrors of Tzeentch, one for each victim slain. They are not under your control, and attack those closest to them. They return to the Realm of Chaos shortly after.

Battle Magics: Spells that can change the face of an entire battlefield. The consequences of miscasting these spells are almost as horrifying as the damage they cause when cast correctly. Magic 7 required to learn, can never be cast reliably.

*Warpflame: All of these spells force those who suffer wounds from them to either take more wounds or briefly gain a natural power of regenerating wounds (or increase such preexisting capacities). Chaos is fickle.

Boon of Magic (Lore Attribute): When you successfully cast a spell from this Lore, you have more chance of increasing your capacity to cast spells.
Blue Fire of Tzeentch (Signature Spell): You consume the bodies of a target unit with coruscating blue flames. Warpflame.
Treason of Tzeentch: You reach your thoughts into the minds of a target unit, tormenting them with subtle whispers that stoke the fires of mistrust and treachery. The affected unit is more vulnerable to fear and less capable of leading others.
Pink Fire of Tzeentch: You envelop a target unit in a cone of magical flame that flows from your hand and damages all who touch it. Warpflame.
Bolt of Change: You hurl a single devastating bolt of energy that blasts through a target unit, wracking their bodies with sickening and uncontrollable mutations. This deals great damage not subject to armor. Warpflame.
Glean Magic: You contest your magical prowess against another Wizard. If you succeed, you steal sorceries from your adversary's mind, damaging them and making them forget one spell, allowing you to cast it like any of your own. Warpflame.
Tzeentch's Firestorm: You launch a searing ball of scarlet flames towards the target unit, engulfing them with balefire. Warpflame.
Infernal Gateway: You open a portal to the dread Realm of Chaos, a magical tear in the mortal plane. The target unit suffers tremendous damage with Warpflame.


As you can see, there's not much in the way of long-lasting effects, as befits the Changer of Ways. So if anyone is thinking of finding some Tzeentchian magic item with an always-on effect to take advantage of... it's not very likely to ever happen. Stasis is not Tzeentch's wheelhouse.
I always found the actual canon list of Tzeentch battle magic both boring and limited. This is the literal god of magic and the patron of change, mutation and randomness. Why does he grant such a small spell list that is mostly about burning people with rainbow flames? And why would his spells be balanced when compared to those of other lores?
I mean I get the answer. It's because it is a game and casters have to be balanced in tabletop war games. But it's definitely one of the things that don't make sense when transfered into a vibrant and self-consistent setting.
 
Considering that a paperwork dimension collapsed when we got daemon-checked, I suspect that there's already a way to make pocket dimensions without AV.
 
IIRC wasn't that essentially Archaon's motivation: to destroy the world so as to prevent it falling to the Dark Powers, rather than conquering it in their name?

At least that's what my thoughts went to when birdy said that bit.
Nah, Archaon decided to destroy the world out of spite at the fact that being evil was his destiny.
 
Considering that a paperwork dimension collapsed when we got daemon-checked, I suspect that there's already a way to make pocket dimensions without AV.
This is the part where I quote Boney telling people the reality of Algard's progress:
[...]The bleeding edge of pocket dimension research is what Algard has: stationary pockets inside a magic-rich environment that collapse if the wrong magic gets too close.

Up until this very update I would say there's very little we could do to outdo him.
 
Wikipedia said:
Throwing (also putting and setting) the cat among the pigeons (also amongst the pigeons) is a British idiom used to describe a disturbance caused by an undesirable person from the perspective of a group.

Another use of the term is to "cause an enormous fight or flap, usually by revealing a controversial fact or secret", or in other words: to do something suddenly or unexpectedly which leaves the people worried or angry.[1][2] The key point being the making explicit a controversial or precarious paradigm or settlement.
Just remembered this, and thought this was apt.

Although in this case it more like a pigeon amongst cats.
 
This is definitely actionable, by being aware that we're a possible target. When hearing about powerful hostiles in the vicinity, we will have to suspect that they're maybe gunning for us personally, not just fighting Order or the Empire in general.

I mean I guess, assuming we would
A) Know there is a Chaos Champion around
B) Not be in a position to go after them at once and thus needing to be reactive

That does not seem like it would be very likely though, a champion bent on assassination would try to stay on the down low and if one of them did pop up odds are Mathilde would be running towards them sword drawn Tzeench offer or no Tzeench offer
 
I am awake again.
If people are so worried still, just ask Cython as a neutral third party in this. The hysh dragon would be curious enough to have some ideas.

And daemon is not demon. One is often more infernal, like the thing in my icon, and daemons are living ideas, and where not necessarily considered evil until Warhammer subsumed the idea almost entirely.
 
I am awake again.
If people are so worried still, just ask Cython as a neutral third party in this. The hysh dragon would be curious enough to have some ideas.

And daemon is not demon. One is often more infernal, like the thing in my icon, and daemons are living ideas, and where not necessarily considered evil until Warhammer subsumed the idea almost entirely.

I do not think we could involve Cython in any college conversations, the last time we brought it up, the last time we brought it up Boney pointed out the College has mind control scrolls that it would be more than happy to use on an Emperor dragon.
 
I don't think any of us should expect to take advantage of Tzeentchian sorcery at all. If Tzeentch can give us a +20 trait, he can take it away just as easily—and probably when we most need it. It's a crutch—or maybe a blind walking stick—meant to lead us into becoming dependent on Him.
The trait explicitly does have an unknown second effect when spellcasting in the presence of Tzeentchian sorcery, so I'm disinclined to mess with it in the first place. Who knows what that could be.

...though it would be funny if it was entirely permanent, positive, and not at all a trap except for encouraging Mathilde to pick up his Lore or be in proximity to his sorcerers.
 
I am awake again.
If people are so worried still, just ask Cython as a neutral third party in this. The hysh dragon would be curious enough to have some ideas.

And daemon is not demon. One is often more infernal, like the thing in my icon, and daemons are living ideas, and where not necessarily considered evil until Warhammer subsumed the idea almost entirely.

Demon and Daemon are fairly interchangeable in my experience, and any distinction between them tends to vary from setting to setting.
 
I don't think any of us should expect to take advantage of Tzeentchian sorcery at all. If Tzeentch can give us a +20 trait, he can take it away just as easily—and probably when we most need it. It's a crutch—or maybe a blind walking stick—meant to lead us into becoming dependent on Him.

While it is true that he could take it away I do not think that he would do so lightly. It's worth keeping in mind that Tzeench, like all chaos gods, does not really like his cultists, they are just playthings to amuse him. Granted that is what he thinks of Mathilde as well, but she is a plaything that is not all the way his so of course he would be more willing to hand out shinnies to change that. That is how Chaos works on a fundamental level, it's why humans get more blessings than say beastmen who are already sworn to chaos more solidly. All other things being equal Tzeench probably values most users of his lore less than he does Mathilde because they are not as fun and unpredictable.
 
Nah, Archaon decided to destroy the world out of spite at the fact that being evil was his destiny.
Archaon's driving motivation is his destructive nihilism. He hates the Gods of Order because he felt like he was lied to and manipulated as a child and Sigmar failed to answer him, and he hates the Chaos Gods because his biological father forced himself on an innocent woman to give birth to him and he was apparently pre-determined to become the Everchosen because Be'lakor something something.

The Everchosen End Times novel says this about Archaon, and I should put a Trigger Warning here that there is a mention of suicide:
Be'lakor claims to have "interceded" on the child's behalf several times, without which he never would have been born or else died several times over:

  • His mother's husband, Roald, arrived home in time to prevent his wife's rape by the Norse raider;
  • His mother, Viktoria, aborted her unwanted child and cast it to the waves;
  • Diederick caught a fever and died under Father Dagobert's care;
  • Diederick was kicked in the head while tending Oberon in Sieur Kastner's service and died soon thereafter;
  • Diederick died when a priestess of Shallya tried, unsuccessfully, to extract the warpstone sliver from his head;
  • After learning that he was the prophesied Everchosen, Diederick hanged himself rather than become so;
In an alternate reality, Diedrick would have rather died than become the Everchosen.
 
Would be cool if one day we could sit down with a bunch of LMs and talk about what stuff the Daemons tried to tempt each of us with.
Other than "wanna be a good side Everchosen that rules the world and fights against Chaos" which is peak lolwut, we've also been tempted once by a Daemonette and once by the evil Chalice iirc.

I always found the actual canon list of Tzeentch battle magic both boring and limited. This is the literal god of magic and the patron of change, mutation and randomness. Why does he grant such a small spell list that is mostly about burning people with rainbow flames? And why would his spells be balanced when compared to those of other lores?
I mean I get the answer. It's because it is a game and casters have to be balanced in tabletop war games. But it's definitely one of the things that don't make sense when transfered into a vibrant and self-consistent setting.

In fairness, explicitly Tzeentch affiliated Sorcerers in WFB 8e could also pick Lore of Metal instead of the Lore of Tzeentch, which has some additional fun stuff available, and special characters also break that mold (Kairos Fateweaver can have spells from 9 different Lores if they want to). The Lore of Tzeentch is clearly an abstraction rather than intended as the only way things work in-universe.
 
Fated: +20 to spellcasting in the presence of Tzeentchian sorcery, ??? when spellcasting in the presence of Tzeentchian sorcery.

Someone might have already mentionned it, but I wonder if we could use our trait to detect Tzeentchian sorcery, perhaps by casting a cantrip or something.

Anyway, as for the debate of telling or not, I think we should at the very least cover our ass by not keeping it secret from people who should know. After all, what could be worst that keeping it a secret, in Tzeench's domain. Against the lord of conspiracies and lies, better have what he said come to the light and suffer rigourous and impartial investigation when able.

I could see "fate" conspiring against us to try and use our secrecy and lies about this "blessing" to slowly turn us to Tzeench if we make the decision to hide our encounter. I'd be much more willing to hide things if it were any other Chaos God, but with Tzeench I feel we should make things as simple as possible.
 
Someone might have already mentionned it, but I wonder if we could use our trait to detect Tzeentchian sorcery, perhaps by casting a cantrip or something.

Anyway, as for the debate of telling or not, I think we should at the very least cover our ass by not keeping it secret from people who should know. After all, what could be worst that keeping it a secret, in Tzeench's domain. Against the lord of conspiracies and lies, better have what he said come to the light and suffer rigourous and impartial investigation when able.

I could see "fate" conspiring against us to try and use our secrecy and lies about this "blessing" to slowly turn us to Tzeench if we make the decision to hide our encounter. I'd be much more willing to hide things if it were any other Chaos God, but with Tzeench I feel we should make things as simple as possible.

I do not think trying to use the trait as detection is worthwile, it is not 'magic cast by a devotee of Tzeench' it's Tzeentchian sorcery, that is the Lore of Tzeench which can be more easily recognized by all the multicolored fire. Subtle it is not.
 
And daemon is not demon. One is often more infernal, like the thing in my icon, and daemons are living ideas, and where not necessarily considered evil until Warhammer subsumed the idea almost entirely.
Demon and Daemon are fairly interchangeable in my experience, and any distinction between them tends to vary from setting to setting.
Daemon:
1. (in Ancient Greek belief) a divinity or supernatural being of nature between gods and human.
2. archaic spelling of Demon.

Demon:
1. an evil spirit or devil, especially one thought to possess a person or act as a tormentor in hell.
2. a forceful, fierce or skilled performer of a specified activity.
3. another term for Daemon.
 
Daemon:
1. (in Ancient Greek belief) a divinity or supernatural being of nature between gods and human.
2. archaic spelling of Demon.

Demon:
1. an evil spirit or devil, especially one thought to possess a person or act as a tormentor in hell.
2. a forceful, fierce or skilled performer of a specified activity.
3. another term for Daemon.

Huh, Mathilde qualifies as a demon/daemon under both of those definitions. She's a "supernatural being of nature between gods and human" and she's a "forceful, fierce or skilled performer" of magic.
 
Here


The RPG does not deal with Battle Magic so this is what you get for messing up Fiendishly Complicated magic... or for being unlucky on any of the other miscast tables. Technically you could try to cast light and with enough 100s get sucked into the realm of chaos.
the miscast sheet for reference

so something that bothering me is people keep saying that this is just a moderate miscast attempt nothing to freak out about and this happens relatively often to wizards. Which part of that is true that on a moderate miscast attempt one of the opitons is where lesser demon pop out but the key word there is lesser demon. We came face to face with a lord of change, greater demon, one of the eyes of tzeeneth which suffice to say as seen in the miscast table is not something that can just happen on a moderate miscast attempt. Anyway it been bothering me and just wanted to correct that notion
 
There is a goofy Tzeentch spell that's basically Slots the Spell. You roll a die on evens you get any spell from any lore for one day, on odds you get a mutation.

It's super impractical and silly but if I was making a Tzeentchian character I would want to roll for which spells I have each new day. The ultimate Tzeentchian: a Gacha Player.
 
the miscast sheet for reference

so something that bothering me is people keep saying that this is just a moderate miscast attempt nothing to freak out about and this happens all the time to wizard. Which part of that is true that there is a moderate miscast attempt where lesser demon pop out but the key word there is lesser demon. We came face to face with a lord of change, greater demon, one of the eyes of tzeeneth which suffice to say as seen in the miscast table is not something that can just happen on a moderate miscast attempt. Anyway it been bothering me and just wanted to correct that notion

We basically got Heretical Vision, the demon did not seriously try murder us, it just wanted to monologue at us.
 
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