Codex
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Don't worry, I wasn't all that excited. It didn't sound like him at all. That sounds like Evil Within. I'm pretty sure the whole bedridden by an illness comes from 1st Edition.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Enemy Within was a 1st Edition WFRP campaign that was pretty groundbreaking in its time in that it was a grand sweeping campaign about interacting with a living world instead of just doing a dungeon crawl, and so it was received very well and drew a lot of attention and is remembered with a lot of fondness. So they reprinted it for 2e, and now they're reprinting it for 4e. I can see why they'd see it as an easy slam-dunk to rehash one of their greatest hits, but in my opinion, there's two major problems with this. One, that while Enemy Within was special 35 years ago, it's been eclipsed by 35 years of iterative improvements. Since then we've had D&D 2nd through 5th Edition, both entire Worlds of Darkness, Old and New, and all six editions of Shadowrun. These days, what it does right isn't special any more, and what it does wrong stands out all the more. And two, it also predates pretty much the entire Warhammer setting as we know it, dating back to WFB 2nd Edition. You have to do a lot of mangling of the setting to try to make the same plot fit into a very changed world.
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Funnily enough, the window tax was an actual thing IRL. It was designed to tax people based on the value of their property, without actually invading their privacy by asking for their income or the size/value of the property (the idea of income tax was incredibly unpopular in this time period). The idea was that a tax collector could just count the number of windows on a house and place an appropriate tax on the property.
What actually happened is that the rich bricked up their windows and it was the poor who couldn't afford to do that which got hit by the tax.
In the England and Wales, it was first introduced in 1696, and was finally repealed in 1851, 155 years later.
Codex
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Can I just say that I definitely got the vibe that Cubicle 7 were basically banking on this Campaign's image?
"The Enemy Within is the revised and updated Director's Cut of one of the most highly regarded roleplaying campaigns ever written. "
"Guest Commentaries: Phil Gallagher and Graeme Davis, two of the original Enemy Within campaign writers, reflect on creating one of the greatest campaigns ever written."
These are excerpts from one of the Cubicle 7 articles on the Campaign, and you will find these words repeated over and over across their advertising. One of the greatest campaigns ever written. Not even specified in WFRP, just in general.
I don't have the nostalgia associated with this campaign. I haven't even read it, I just know a general overview and synopsis. What I've seen is nothing special. It feels like they're trying to resurrect the feelings of the 80's, but it just doesn't work for new fans who don't even understand what made this campaign "one of the greatest ever written". It just feels overblown.
- Location
- Leeds
Ah are the evil anti!chaos gods of order back?
Codex
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Solkan is, but he was never really gone, just subtly pushed out of the wayside.
Well, Gods of Order have never really gone, they just were rewritten as odd minor gods. Solkan especially has kept somewhat relevant through the years as a god of the more extreme witch hunters.
Codex
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Alright, so I'm going to be making a loaded statement here. I've read Cubicle 7's works, primarily the core books for WFRP 4th Edition and Soulbound (and a few other books for WFRP 4E), and I think I can make a few statements about Cubicle 7's quality.
They're good. I like them. I think they're lovely writers who are progressive in their views and that they actively try to be inclusive, which I love. They have lots of art, they credit their artists and writers, something GW doesn't even bother to do these days, and they're inclusive with lots of racially diverse and LGBT characters. They are excellent in their creativity and providing ideas and hooks for authors to latch on to, and they make good books with lots of varying options for GM customisation and they encourage budding GMs to customise their own game and create a healthy TTRPG environment.
But Soulbound is better than WFRP 4E, and here's why.
Cubicle 7 are trying to be something they're not. I can clearly see them struggling to some extent with the WFRP property as they attempt to mimic the old style with their own spin on it, and it's not working out as well as they might think. Their style doesn't mesh super great with WFRP. WFRP is too crunch heavy and dark and gritty, and Cubicle 7 don't know how to manage that line properly. Not that the previous authors in 2E did when making campaigns, because those were edgy as hell and over the top grim. It also doesn't help that Cubicle 7 are trying to bring back 1st Edition in 4th Edition and attempting to make it fit canon. They're trying their best, but it's just not compatible, and they're trying to force things back to something they're not. The majority of people playing 4th Edition weren't around for 1st Edition, what Nostalgia are they even trying to bank on? It just isn't working, and it's messing with their system.
The best work Cubicle 7 have produced is when they have creative freedom and they're not limited by trying to mimic other styles. That is why I think Soulbound works better for them.
You could argue that Soulbound evokes images of Scion or Exalted or the WoD games and you may be right, I haven't played those games. But what I do know is that they aren't limited by the legacy of a franchise that's run for decades. They get to make their own mechanics, and when they had the choice, they went for a light crunch, narrative based RPG system with lots of room for creativity and options on the player side, while providing plenty of tools for storytelling. Where they excel is in making something original, because I was astonished at the ridiculous variety of hooks and concepts they made up for Soulbound. Soulbound is very good, and the AoS setting even implemented aspects of the RPG into the Tabletop for 3rd Edition.
Sorry for the impromptu post. Just felt like saying something. I don't want people to get the idea that Cubicle 7 is bad, I think they're great. Fantastic even. I just don't like some of the creative choices they made which limited their ability to contribute to the setting. They really should have let 1st Edition go.
They're good. I like them. I think they're lovely writers who are progressive in their views and that they actively try to be inclusive, which I love. They have lots of art, they credit their artists and writers, something GW doesn't even bother to do these days, and they're inclusive with lots of racially diverse and LGBT characters. They are excellent in their creativity and providing ideas and hooks for authors to latch on to, and they make good books with lots of varying options for GM customisation and they encourage budding GMs to customise their own game and create a healthy TTRPG environment.
But Soulbound is better than WFRP 4E, and here's why.
Cubicle 7 are trying to be something they're not. I can clearly see them struggling to some extent with the WFRP property as they attempt to mimic the old style with their own spin on it, and it's not working out as well as they might think. Their style doesn't mesh super great with WFRP. WFRP is too crunch heavy and dark and gritty, and Cubicle 7 don't know how to manage that line properly. Not that the previous authors in 2E did when making campaigns, because those were edgy as hell and over the top grim. It also doesn't help that Cubicle 7 are trying to bring back 1st Edition in 4th Edition and attempting to make it fit canon. They're trying their best, but it's just not compatible, and they're trying to force things back to something they're not. The majority of people playing 4th Edition weren't around for 1st Edition, what Nostalgia are they even trying to bank on? It just isn't working, and it's messing with their system.
The best work Cubicle 7 have produced is when they have creative freedom and they're not limited by trying to mimic other styles. That is why I think Soulbound works better for them.
You could argue that Soulbound evokes images of Scion or Exalted or the WoD games and you may be right, I haven't played those games. But what I do know is that they aren't limited by the legacy of a franchise that's run for decades. They get to make their own mechanics, and when they had the choice, they went for a light crunch, narrative based RPG system with lots of room for creativity and options on the player side, while providing plenty of tools for storytelling. Where they excel is in making something original, because I was astonished at the ridiculous variety of hooks and concepts they made up for Soulbound. Soulbound is very good, and the AoS setting even implemented aspects of the RPG into the Tabletop for 3rd Edition.
Sorry for the impromptu post. Just felt like saying something. I don't want people to get the idea that Cubicle 7 is bad, I think they're great. Fantastic even. I just don't like some of the creative choices they made which limited their ability to contribute to the setting. They really should have let 1st Edition go.
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- Location
- London, England
Oh man, the Turmoil is a fantastic piece of writing, in that it is so flagrantly forced that I genuinely have no idea what they imagined was going to happen.
In summary - the start of the Enemy Within campaign for 4e gives an overview of the Empire, as it was all the way back in the depths of 1st edition. Nordland is a vassal of Middenland, Hochland and Ostermark aren't states, Solland still exists but Wissenland wants to conquer and absorb it and so on. And to be clear, literally nothing in Enemy Within actually relies on the old system being in place, its just a bunch of background lore designed to appeal to the saltiest of old grognards (the ones who have rejected any canon change for like thirty years) at the cost of confusing literally everyone else.
And then at the end of the series they present "The Turmoil", a massive shake up of Imperial politics that ends up making all of the states and electors move into the format we are familiar with today, the one that they've had since at least 2e of the WFRP books and the actual Army Book: Empire for the tabletop wargame. They even get Volkmar into the Grand Theogonist seat.
It's genuinely absurd.
On the upside, though, the new version of the Enemy Within campaign does include a plotline where you have to stop the Skaven from building a giant cannon to blow up the moon. So, you know. It can't be that bad.
In summary - the start of the Enemy Within campaign for 4e gives an overview of the Empire, as it was all the way back in the depths of 1st edition. Nordland is a vassal of Middenland, Hochland and Ostermark aren't states, Solland still exists but Wissenland wants to conquer and absorb it and so on. And to be clear, literally nothing in Enemy Within actually relies on the old system being in place, its just a bunch of background lore designed to appeal to the saltiest of old grognards (the ones who have rejected any canon change for like thirty years) at the cost of confusing literally everyone else.
And then at the end of the series they present "The Turmoil", a massive shake up of Imperial politics that ends up making all of the states and electors move into the format we are familiar with today, the one that they've had since at least 2e of the WFRP books and the actual Army Book: Empire for the tabletop wargame. They even get Volkmar into the Grand Theogonist seat.
It's genuinely absurd.
On the upside, though, the new version of the Enemy Within campaign does include a plotline where you have to stop the Skaven from building a giant cannon to blow up the moon. So, you know. It can't be that bad.
Codex
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You give me a plotline where a Skaven infiltrates human society and you get to face off against him on the dance floor and I will actually bother to register my credit card online so I can buy the goddamn E-book. And I hate talking to the bank.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
I want an adventuring party with a good skaven so bad. A skaven mad scientist except his plot isn't to blow up this or that dwarf hold but Horned rat instead.
Or an escaped storm vermin who moonlights as a hedge knight from Bretonnia who took a vow to never reveal his visage and actually has blessing of The Lady. That would be hilarious.
(I have actually already got married to the second idea and now it is my firm conviction that one such as that actually exists and i refuse to relinquish it).
Or an escaped storm vermin who moonlights as a hedge knight from Bretonnia who took a vow to never reveal his visage and actually has blessing of The Lady. That would be hilarious.
(I have actually already got married to the second idea and now it is my firm conviction that one such as that actually exists and i refuse to relinquish it).
Thebigpieman
I've got this, I think.
- Location
- United States
It'd be Goro Majima all over again except this time he's a giant rat.
I'd pay to see that.
She knows 'about your kind', has a suspicion that 'there may be others', determinedly states that 'if you think your getting away, I will prove you wrong', and culminates in threats to 'blow you all away' and 'burn this god damn house right down'.
Murder On The Dancefloor is a song about a Witch Hunter confronting a disguised Skaven at a ball.
Murder On The Dancefloor is a song about a Witch Hunter confronting a disguised Skaven at a ball.
Blackout
Fed By Comments
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- Who knows?
My favorite part is where, as a consolation prize for losing Nordland, Franz just randomly hands Boris Todbringer Middenland (as Middenland and Middenheim were separate electoral provinces before the turmoil) and boots the Elector-Count of Middenland out of the Electoral Meet.
"Here you go champ, have a province, as a treat."
This event of momentous geopolitical impact is of course given the depth and coverage it deserves, which is to say it gets one line of text hidden in a companion book.
Well, I'm sold. I love Exalted, and I've been looking for something that scratches that itch whilst I wait for the new Essence edition.
If I can headcanon Orc-Dread, the Sigmar worshiping Sigmork, who runs around krumping other orcs until the stunties give him a magic hammer, then Grailvermin are absolutely valid.
- Location
- France
FYI, Codex's take on Cubicle 7 matches my opinion of their 40k RPG (Wrath and Glory).
They feel unsure of the power level they are writing at, and they keep trying to have a gritty and scary tone in a game where their own mechanics incentivise high adventure and glorious hack'n'slash. They do better when distancing themselves from the previous games, IMO.
But this is a common problem, really. Making games too hard and gritty is viewed as impeding sales and new adopters, and it's also harder to design and also harder to design generic adventures for.
Over time, franchises get increasingly "high-powered" or at least more forgiving. D&D had some of that, the FFG 40k RPGs had a lot of that, etc. This is not a bad thing, but it does mean that trying to keep the aesthetic of gritty danger gets a lot harder.
So Cubicle 7's Wrath and has a solid system for Tier 2 and 3 play, but struggles to write Tier 1 adventures. I got similar vibes from other games, like FFG's Black Crusade which originally tried to insist it was about infiltrating Imperial worlds, or D&D's sad attempts to reprint old aventures from decades ago while pretending they are still original, fresh, unusual and mechanically threatening.
They feel unsure of the power level they are writing at, and they keep trying to have a gritty and scary tone in a game where their own mechanics incentivise high adventure and glorious hack'n'slash. They do better when distancing themselves from the previous games, IMO.
But this is a common problem, really. Making games too hard and gritty is viewed as impeding sales and new adopters, and it's also harder to design and also harder to design generic adventures for.
Over time, franchises get increasingly "high-powered" or at least more forgiving. D&D had some of that, the FFG 40k RPGs had a lot of that, etc. This is not a bad thing, but it does mean that trying to keep the aesthetic of gritty danger gets a lot harder.
So Cubicle 7's Wrath and has a solid system for Tier 2 and 3 play, but struggles to write Tier 1 adventures. I got similar vibes from other games, like FFG's Black Crusade which originally tried to insist it was about infiltrating Imperial worlds, or D&D's sad attempts to reprint old aventures from decades ago while pretending they are still original, fresh, unusual and mechanically threatening.
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Aliya
Someone I might become
- Location
- Kazakhstan
- Pronouns
- They/She/It
There is a new-new quest-game on this site-forum called "Revolt-revolution, yes-yes" which might be of interest to you, fellow man-thing.
Honestly, I could see eshin having some of their assassins surgically altered to be mostly passable. Hell, it's far from the weirdest stuff skaven have done with biology.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
I already follow that
.
Codex
Fantasy Addict
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I think Thanquol tries to pass as human to help Gotrek and Felix screw over the Skaven of Nuln at one point, and they see right through his disguise and wonder what the hell he's doing. I can't really attest to the exact circumstances but it's been stuck in my head ever since.
What was he (Thanquol) cooking?
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
I know they brought it back for 3rd, I don't think they did for 2nd?
Unless you're just talking about a literal re-release, not something under the banner of 2nd edition?
I know they did it at some point between 1st and 4th, I just assumed it was 2nd because I don't really think of 3rd Edition as something that actually existed.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
You and the rest of the fandom.
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- A Pit Of My Own Making
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I had an idea for a Skaven priest of Sigmar. He was born under a church, in a nest that was quickly abandoned but he was left behind. He would hear choirs singing, and learned to read using holy books